Not at all. I have no objection to carrying a gun. I just have an objection
to mentally deficient people and criminals from carrying one. I think
abortion is terrible, but sometimes it's better than the alternative. I
can't
see how anyone would think Kerry supports the murder of innocents.
I don't believe Bush does either. He's just not interested either way. It's
all abstract to him, maybe because he's never been to war.

You're right though...we do have a ****ed up society... the best one
on the planet thank you very much.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
It's about Kerry believing in a woman's right to choose, it's about
not allowing every wacko to own a gun,


I'm very confused by this.

Are you saying that it is OK to kill an unborn baby and it is wrong to
carry
a gun?

I think that you must live in a severley f*cked up society.



it's about Kerry having
common values just like most thinking Republicans. Kerry is
a compassionate Liberal, which actually means something unlike
Bu****'s compassionate Conservatism lies.


Kerry supports the murder of the innocent, as does Bush.

Given your choice, I'd probably vote for Kerry. Dead babies will produce
fewer terrorists.



Regards

Donal
--

No the thread is about what YOU feel Kerry believes. You are not in his mind
and therefore cannot speak with any first hand knowledge, only an
interpreterpation of what you preceive as his feelings based on your own
observations. But that is not how you titled it.
"Bart Senior" wrote in message
t...
This thread is not about what I believe. None of
your rant made any sense.

It about what Kerry says he believes. He, like most
liberal politicians, is not proud of his beliefs. Liberal
extremism is what most people in the US find frightening.
Uncontrolled spending, rewarding the welfare mentality,
denying honest people the right to protect themselves, are
just a few of these wacko ideals. All of these have
been proven to be failures.

Kerry will lose the upcoming election because most
American's consider liberalism to be extremism. He
is not trying to distance himself from liberalism. What
he is doing now is laughable.

Gov Davis ruined the California economy, and Bustamante
lost to Schwarzenegger for the same reason.

At the time the extremists in the SF Bay area were
shocked tha Bustamante lost. Their comments
were--"The rest of California was uninformed and
stupid." Meanwhile, the rest of California was
laughing at the liberal extremists because they were to
stupid ones that can't comprehend cause and effect.
Now the tax base in California has been ruined and will
not recover for ten or more years--all because of liberal
spending and stupid laws raising workman's comp costs.

By the way, I support the liberal idea of charity for
others in need. I just don't comprehend why Liberals
promote this belief, yet don't give much themselves.

If liberals were charitable, they wouldn't need everyone
else to pay for their beliefs.

How much has Kerry given in the last 20 years, compared
to his wealth? If he has that much money why doesn't he
do some good with it? He could afford to give away
more than half his weath and still live comfortably. He
could be a hero. Not Kerry, not the Clintons, not Jackson.
They are all greedy people promising so much for the poor,
while selling out America and lining their own pockets.

Jonathan Ganz wrote
the following typical liberal nonsense, trying to change
the subject and not make any constructive commentary.
[Remember, Rule 1 of Extremist Liberalism, when you
don't have an argument, attack the messenger.]

So, you don't believe that a woman has a right to choose
what happens with her own body. Got it.

So, you believe that anyone can own whatever gun they
want without regulation, even thought that sort of practice
almost killed Reagan and seriously injured Brady and
others. Got it.

So, you believe that common values cannot be held by
Democrats, but rather only by extremist right-wing freaks
such as Limbaugh and Pat Robertson. Got it.

So, you believe that just because you lost your job under
Clinton, therefore, despite the facts, he's responsible for
everything bad in America. Got it.

"Bart Senior" wrote

Proof that Liberals lie and are ashamed
to be liberals.
******************************

As all of you well know, John Kerry is making
conservative values statements faster than anybody
can count.

He now says life begins at conception. That is not
what liberals believe.

He's a friend of gun owners. Liberals hate gun owners.

He believes marriage should be between a man and a
woman. That's not what the liberals in this country are
trying to support.

He represents conservative values, he said. His Benedict
Arnold statements made repeatedly during the primaries
were the result of overaggressive speechwriters, not what
he thought.

Kerry is doing this precisely because he knows liberalism
is a political millstone around the neck of any modern
presidential candidate. And so do all these other liberals
in the media and the Democratic Party, when you accuse
this ticket of being the most liberal in the history of the
Democratic Party, "What do you mean, liberal? I don't
understand. You guys keep throwing that ward around,
doesn't mean anything." Rather than, flex any muscles and
say, damn right, I'm a liberal. They run from it because it is
a millstone.

Contemporary liberalism has been shown to be a failure
in social policy; for example, in welfare, crime, and
education; economic policy, contemporary liberalism
leads to high taxes, suffocating regulations, tariffs, the
nanny state, if you will.

And contemporary liberalism has in foreign and defense
policy, leads to unilateral disarmament and unwillingness
to use American force, disdain for the idea of American
exceptionalism, that's e-x-c, exceptionalism, a deep
comfort with framing international issues in terms of right
and wrong and good and evil, a discomfort with that.

Those are all elements of contemporary liberalism in foreign
and defense policy. Get rid of all of our weapons, turn
over defense to international bodies like the UN, reluctance
to use force, disdain for the idea that America is exceptional,
we're no better, we're no different than anybody else; in fact,
we have no right to impose ourselves on people, which we
don't do.

Kerry understands this. He understands he cannot be tagged
as a liberal, and so he's going to extraordinary rhetorical and
photo op lengths to shed the liberal label. His problem is that
as a Massachusetts attorney general and senator his entire
political career has been characterized by liberalism. This is
not a attack, and that's another thing. You call a liberal a
liberal and they say, "You are attacking me, this is a dirty
trick. This is attack politics." How can it be? To simply identify
them is a dirty trick. But it is to them, it's an epithet. It's not an
attack, simply an empirical statement based on Kerry's long
voting record, liberalism is the political well from which he has
consumed beverages for two decades.
******************************************

Just as George Bush, Sr, commented on the lies and lack of
intergirty of Bill Clinton, we are seeing the same sorts of lies
out of Kerry.

Do we want a President that is a liar and a fraud?

The answer is clear, unless you are a liberal and approve of
liars.

On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 10:13:44 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap:

So, you don't believe that a woman has a right to choose
what happens with her own body. Got it.


Then why is prostitution illegal?


So, you believe that anyone can own whatever gun they
want without regulation, even thought that sort of practice
almost killed Reagan and seriously injured Brady and
others. Got it.

It was a crazed liberal-whacko who shot Reagan. By the laws of the
day, he shouldn't have owned a gun. No laws of any kind would have
changed that.


So, you believe that just because you lost your job under
Clinton, therefore, despite the facts, he's responsible for
everything bad in America. Got it.

Now there's the truth.

I say go ahead and vote for Bu****. It's not going to make
any difference. He's going to LOSE.

Lose what? Certainly not the election.






Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Good question. It shouldn't be.

No waiting period was in place. No national registry.

You're going to lose your tits??? No way!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 10:13:44 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap:

So, you don't believe that a woman has a right to choose
what happens with her own body. Got it.


Then why is prostitution illegal?


So, you believe that anyone can own whatever gun they
want without regulation, even thought that sort of practice
almost killed Reagan and seriously injured Brady and
others. Got it.

It was a crazed liberal-whacko who shot Reagan. By the laws of the
day, he shouldn't have owned a gun. No laws of any kind would have
changed that.


So, you believe that just because you lost your job under
Clinton, therefore, despite the facts, he's responsible for
everything bad in America. Got it.

Now there's the truth.

I say go ahead and vote for Bu****. It's not going to make
any difference. He's going to LOSE.

Lose what? Certainly not the election.






Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

"Bart Senior" wrote in message
t...
Proof that Liberals lie and are ashamed to be liberals.

Conservatives? Goldwater was a Conservative AFAIK there are no real
conservatives on either side.
******************************

As all of you well know, John Kerry is making conservative values
statements faster than anybody
can count.

He now says life begins at conception. That is not what liberals
believe.

If you read the historical part of the Roe vs Wade decision you'd know that
is not what concervatives believe either. The only people who believe
*human* life begins at conception are religious kooks - people with the
simple minds of 3-year-olds who have an invisible friend that tells them to
think that.

He's a friend of gun owners. Liberals hate gun owners.

They do??Teddy K is a liberal? His bodyguards carry Uzis! Diane Fienstein
has a permit to carry. The real anti-gun cranks are the Methodist and
other churches who fund Sarah Brady and other politicians. Follow
"deep-throat's" advice - follow the money and you'll see.


He represents conservative values, ....

Please define "conservative values". To me there is only one: "That
government is best that governs least" - the one that gave us the
Constitution of the United States. Lest we forget, the people who wrap
themselves in the flag and call themselves "conservative" today are in fact
the spiritual heirs of the tolatarian theocrats who made even birth control
illegal early in the last century.


Kerry is doing this precisely because he knows liberalism is a political
millstone .....

Yup, for the same reason that no "conservatives" are openly promising to
outlaw abortion and birth control - again - even tho that's their adjenda.

Contemporary liberalism has been shown to be a failure
in social policy; for example, in welfare, crime, and
education; economic policy, contemporary liberalism
leads to high taxes, suffocating regulations, tariffs, the
nanny state, if you will.

Then Reagan and Bush are bigger liberals than Clinton or Kerry. Has
government shrank under either one? No, it grew! The difference is Clinton
made us pay as we go by raising taxes while Reagan and Bush ran up huge
deficites for our children and grandchildren to pay. Jeeze, Bush BORROWs
more money per year then liberal JFK spent!


Do we want a President that is a liar and a fraud?

AFAIK we've never had one that wasn't, at least in my lifetime. Do you? I
just read where Bush's National Guard records were "accidentally" destroyed.

..Comments inserted
"Bart Senior" wrote in message
t...
Proof that Liberals lie and are ashamed
to be liberals.
******************************
Funny, I am liberal, and I consider my self a proud individual, proud of who
I am and proud of my personal accomplishments
As all of you well know, John Kerry is making
conservative values statements faster than anybody
can count.


Since when are positive values the sole property of conservatives?

He now says life begins at conception. That is not
what liberals believe.
I have always believed life begins at conception or soon there after, and I
am liberal, How can thet be?
He's a friend of gun owners. Liberals hate gun owners.
I cannot own a gun and be liberal? Ok if you say so, just don't break into
my house, you may be surprised.
He believes marriage should be between a man and a
woman. That's not what the liberals in this country are
trying to support.

I believe marriage is between a man and a woman, I also belive that it may
be between two individuals who love ,respect and are devoted to eachother
regardless of sex.

He represents conservative values, he said. His Benedict
Arnold statements made repeatedly during the primaries
were the result of overaggressive speechwriters, not what
he thought.

Since when are positive values the sole property of conservatives?

Kerry is doing this precisely because he knows liberalism
is a political millstone around the neck of any modern
presidential candidate. And so do all these other liberals
in the media and the Democratic Party, when you accuse
this ticket of being the most liberal in the history of the
Democratic Party, "What do you mean, liberal? I don't
understand. You guys keep throwing that ward around,
doesn't mean anything." Rather than, flex any muscles and
say, damn right, I'm a liberal. They run from it because it is
a millstone.

Have you ever looked up the meaning of Liberal? It means one who is
acceptant to change. Are you saying that the conservative movement today is
not trying to change things in our society today? All liberals, including
Ralph Nader, Michael Moore ect?

Contemporary liberalism has been shown to be a failure
in social policy; for example, in welfare, crime, and
education; economic policy, contemporary liberalism
leads to high taxes, suffocating regulations, tariffs, the
nanny state, if you will.

Contempory liberalism has given us social security, NLRB, the Clean water
bill,the clean air act, education and acess to higher education through
federal programs(which generate more economic activity by training the
masses for higher paying jobs).

And contemporary liberalism has in foreign and defense
policy, leads to unilateral disarmament and unwillingness
to use American force, disdain for the idea of American
exceptionalism, that's e-x-c, exceptionalism, a deep
comfort with framing international issues in terms of right
and wrong and good and evil, a discomfort with that.

Unilateral disarmement, I think the Roosevelt presidency would show that to
be wrong, as well as the Kennedy and Johnson administrations. Besides
shouldn't you exhaust all possible options, diplomatic and economic ect,
before you send our soldiers into harms way? Also who is defining good and
evil, you or me?

Those are all elements of contemporary liberalism in foreign
and defense policy. Get rid of all of our weapons, turn
over defense to international bodies like the UN, reluctance
to use force, disdain for the idea that America is exceptional,
we're no better, we're no different than anybody else; in fact,
we have no right to impose ourselves on people, which we
don't do.

I think if you would speak to most liberals they wouldn't disarm and turn
our defense completely over to the UN, but certianly the UN can be used as a
spring-board in order to keep things in check and the lines of communication
open to avoid sending our armed forces into harms way unnecessarily, also we
could reduce our military expense if we could get the burden shared instead
of going off half cocked( as in the unfounded WMD debate).

Kerry understands this. He understands he cannot be tagged
as a liberal, and so he's going to extraordinary rhetorical and
photo op lengths to shed the liberal label. His problem is that
as a Massachusetts attorney general and senator his entire
political career has been characterized by liberalism. This is
not a attack, and that's another thing. You call a liberal a
liberal and they say, "You are attacking me, this is a dirty
trick. This is attack politics." How can it be? To simply identify
them is a dirty trick. But it is to them, it's an epithet. It's not an
attack, simply an empirical statement based on Kerry's long
voting record, liberalism is the political well from which he has
consumed beverages for two decade
s.
Kerry isn't a true liberal, he is the most liberal of the 2 prime candidates
running. His doctrine is centrist, and one of more consensus rather than the
"my way or the high... highwhatever I think, how do you spell that?" of the
current occupier of that office.
******************************************

Just as George Bush, Sr, commented on the lies and lack of
intergirty of Bill Clinton, we are seeing the same sorts of lies
out of Kerry.

Do we want a President that is a liar and a fraud?

The answer is clear, unless you are a liberal and approve of
liars.


We have a president who is at best one who acts on incomplete information,
interprets information to his advantage and at worst is an out an out liar,
I hope for the first scenario, but it says little of his intuitive abilities
and his ability to admit a mistake. IMHO Philip Carroll

On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 16:13:32 GMT, "Bart Senior"
wrote this crap:

Proof that Liberals lie and are ashamed
to be liberals.
******************************

As all of you well know, John Kerry is making
conservative values statements faster than anybody
can count.


Wait till he starts talking about family values. Didn't he divorce
his first wife, so he could marry his best friend's rich widow?





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 06:44:02 -0400, Horvath
wrote:

On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 16:13:32 GMT, "Bart Senior"
wrote this crap:

Proof that Liberals lie and are ashamed
to be liberals.
******************************

As all of you well know, John Kerry is making
conservative values statements faster than anybody
can count.


Wait till he starts talking about family values. Didn't he divorce
his first wife, so he could marry his best friend's rich widow?

You can find a way to be wrong about the simplest of things. Kerry's
divorce was in 1988. Senator Heinz died in 1991. Therefore, the
current Mrs Kerry didn't become a "rich widow" until 3 years after
Kerry's divorce.

Horass is just stooopid.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"felton" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 06:44:02 -0400, Horvath
wrote:

On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 16:13:32 GMT, "Bart Senior"
wrote this crap:

Proof that Liberals lie and are ashamed
to be liberals.
******************************

As all of you well know, John Kerry is making
conservative values statements faster than anybody
can count.


Wait till he starts talking about family values. Didn't he divorce
his first wife, so he could marry his best friend's rich widow?

You can find a way to be wrong about the simplest of things. Kerry's
divorce was in 1988. Senator Heinz died in 1991. Therefore, the
current Mrs Kerry didn't become a "rich widow" until 3 years after
Kerry's divorce.

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 14:24:45 GMT, felton wrote
this crap:


Wait till he starts talking about family values. Didn't he divorce
his first wife, so he could marry his best friend's rich widow?

You can find a way to be wrong about the simplest of things. Kerry's
divorce was in 1988. Senator Heinz died in 1991. Therefore, the
current Mrs Kerry didn't become a "rich widow" until 3 years after
Kerry's divorce.


Uh huh. Don't you think he was already hitting on her while her
husband was sick and dying?






Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!