Bart Senior wrote:
There is a picture in Sailing World this month in
ASK DR. CRASH. However, instead of providing
usefull suggestions on what to do in this situation,
they make a joke about a potentially fatal situation!
Shame on you Dr Crash!

The picture is located in the last page of this months
issue titled "Drop the Chute".

Yes, saw that. It was an interesting story.

We've had crew come off the foredeck under somewhat similar
circumstances. Getting the leg caught in the shrouds is a complication.


Assumptions:
1. Assume there are one or two other boats
upwind of LION'S PAW, and all are headed
downwind with their kites up.
2. The committee boat is over a mile away.
3. You do not have a radio on board.
4. The bow man cannot be pulled aft without
breaking his leg or dislocating his knee.
5. Assume the boat is on a dead downwind run.
6. You have typical safety gear on board and handy.
*****************************************
Question 1: What should the skipper do? [2 points]

Soundly curse the crewman, along with his ancestors and his descendants,
for at least 7 generations.

Where is the spinnaker halyard cleat? Can the skipper reach it? Dropping
the chute would slow the boat down... indeed, could well bring it to a
complete stop


Question 2: What should the middle person do? [2 points]

Either drop the chute & gather it quickly OR let the old sheet run out
to take pressure off. If the twing is tight, the sail shouldn't sky...
this might not work too well and may lead to worse problems.


Question 3: As a skipper what would you change in
future races to mitigate a problem like this? [1 point]

Put a toerail on the boat, at least along that short section where Mr
Fumble Foot stands when gybing.


Question 4: In heavier winds with rolling condtions, would
you do anything differently? [1 point]

The ultimate answer is to do an immediate North River Gybe (warning the
remaining crew of course). This will do several things... it will swing
the boat around the crewman in the water, reducing the rate at which
he's getting dragged... it will bring him to the high side, reducing the
depth to which he is immersed... it will slow & stop the boat... it will
free up the middle crew from everything else, once he's ducked &
covered, so he can fully assist the crew in water... in fact the boat
could end up hove-to so the skipper can help too.

Somehow gybing a spinnaker seems to bring out either the best or the
worst in people. I've had otherwise calm & skillful crew start shouting
nonsense and flailing, and my wife who is usually rather intense becomes
jovial & devil-may-care. I've fallen down or been flung around when
gybing, never overboard though. I've had crew go overboard once gybing
in a race, the biggest problem at the time was that it was right at the
gybe mark and there was a lot of traffic bearing down on her. They told
me later that the Race Committee (approx 2 miles away) and people on
shore (2 1/2 miles away) heard me warning the oncoming boats....

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote

Where is the spinnaker halyard cleat? Can the skipper reach it? Dropping
the chute would slow the boat down... indeed, could well bring it to a
complete stop

How would you do that? Dropping it in the water will
stop the boat quickly and perhaps put the mans head
underwater.

Bart Senior wrote:
How would you do that? Dropping it in the water will
stop the boat quickly and perhaps put the mans head
underwater.

?? I don't see how dropping the spinnaker, even if it goes trawling,
will put the crew overboard's head underwater if it wasn't already
underwater. Because the spinnaker is heeling the boat? But remember, the
guy was on the lee (mainsail) side so if that's true then it's an
unstable situation anyway; the boat would basically be in the first
stages of death-rolling.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:

Bart Senior wrote:

How would you do that? Dropping it in the water will
stop the boat quickly and perhaps put the mans head
underwater.


?? I don't see how dropping the spinnaker, even if it goes trawling,
will put the crew overboard's head underwater if it wasn't already
underwater. Because the spinnaker is heeling the boat? But remember, the
guy was on the lee (mainsail) side so if that's true then it's an
unstable situation anyway; the boat would basically be in the first
stages of death-rolling.


In this case it would not matter as letting the spinny go frees upo the
crew to help the man. He just needs one hand to keep his head above
water! I agree with you Doug.

Cheers

Nav wrote:
.... I agree with you Doug.

Well golly, that's made my week... wait'll I tell my Mom...

DSK

DSK wrote:

Nav wrote:

.... I agree with you Doug.


Well golly, that's made my week... wait'll I tell my Mom...


Well it's a serious question and I agree with you. Are you surprised you
knew/guessed the best (IMHO) answer?

:P

Cheers

Nav wrote:
Well it's a serious question and I agree with you. Are you surprised you
knew/guessed the best (IMHO) answer?

I neither "knew" nor guessed, just described what I would (probably) do.
Since I have been in a similar situation, that affects my judgement.

I am surprised that you agree, I am not surprised that you think in
terms of "right" and "best" answers as though sailing was some sort of
academic exercise where theory & book-learning counts for more than
actual ability.

DSK

Bart Senior wrote:

DSK wrote


Where is the spinnaker halyard cleat? Can the skipper reach it? Dropping
the chute would slow the boat down... indeed, could well bring it to a
complete stop


How would you do that? Dropping it in the water will
stop the boat quickly and perhaps put the mans head
underwater.


He's got hand hasn't he?

Cheers

Here are my ideas.

First off, I like Ozzie's idea of handing the man the jib sheet. I'd
also talk to him about what I planned to do so he can hold his
breath.

Someone should hand him the boats throwable floatation right away.
If he manages to free himself from the boat he'll need that.

Firing a flare right away might be a good idea. Usually
in a race problems on other boats downwind are spotted quickly,
but others might react more quickly if there was a sense of
urgency provoked by a flare. A handheld VHF call for help
would be wise also, in case the problem takes a long time to
resolve. I would not waste time talking, I'd possibly give one
quick report and focus on the task at hand, and not count on
any help.

I'd worriy about the spinnaker pole flailing around the foredeck.
This would not be a good time to lose a second crew overboard
with a head injury and have to chose which one to save first, and
possibly which one to die. I've been hit in the head by a spinnaker
pole and people have died from injuries like that.

In the described conditions, I'd start by dumping the pole lift, and
sheet in the foreguy to drop the spinnaker pole. I'd ease the
spinnaker halyard 6 feet. and let the spinnaker sheet run. That
would leave the spinnaker streaming out downwind, and out of the
water, and in a good position to recover it later. It might turn
out that the spinnaker pole could be used helm keep the mans' head
out of the water also.

I do not like the idea of having the spinnaker in the water attached to
the boat. It might complicate matters in unexpected ways.

The helmsman's should yell "gybing", and sheet in the main halfway. If the
boat was by the lee, as Doug stated, it would be in the first stages of
a death roll, and it would be a slam gybe as the boom crossed the boat
and began to round up. Sheeting the main in halfway plus the boats
momentum would help keep the boat heeled and turning upwind. If
the boat was not by the lee, gybing still makes sense.

That would put the spinnaker behind the main. And bring the
boat's head up, as it rounds up, and tend to keep the man out
of the water as the boat slows down. The helmsman should steer
up to keep the main luffing and boat stopped and possibly hove-to
with the spinnaker drag offsetting the helm.
..
The boat would be unlikely to unintentionally tack with the spinnaker
streaming off the bow and the main not fully sheeted in. An
unintentional tack is not a good idea as it might make it more difficult
for the man to keep his head out of the water.

At this point the middle woman could reach down from the cockpit
and help the bowman keep his head up out of the water if he was
having trouble getting air. Perhaps he could put his other foot
against the hull and kick himself free at this point. If not the helmsman
could take over the job of helping him stay above water, steering with
the hiking stick or his foot and keeping the boat stopped.

The middle woman could try to free his foot, untie his shoe or whatever.
If the boat were stopped it will be easier to get the foot out.

If the foot is still stuck, depending on the urgency, the woman could free
the jib halyard, tie a big loop with a bowline to support his weight, or tie
it around his foot to brute force the foot free. If I were in the water
having
trouble keeping my head out of the water, I'd gladly accept some cuts,
bruises, or even a broken leg over drowning.

If his foot is really jammed in there the only way to get him out mayl
be to pull him forward.

In heavier wind conditions I'd let spinnaker halyard, sheet and
guy all go. I think the spinnaker would float long enough to
recover later.


Nav wrote

Bart Senior wrote:

DSK wrote


Where is the spinnaker halyard cleat? Can the skipper reach it? Dropping
the chute would slow the boat down... indeed, could well bring it to a
complete stop


How would you do that? Dropping it in the water will
stop the boat quickly and perhaps put the mans head
underwater.

He's got hand hasn't he?

Bart Senior wrote:

Here are my ideas.

First off, I like Ozzie's idea of handing the man the jib sheet. I'd
also talk to him about what I planned to do so he can hold his
breath.

Someone should hand him the boats throwable floatation right away.
If he manages to free himself from the boat he'll need that.

Firing a flare right away might be a good idea. Usually
in a race problems on other boats downwind are spotted quickly,
but others might react more quickly if there was a sense of
urgency provoked by a flare. A handheld VHF call for help
would be wise also, in case the problem takes a long time to
resolve. I would not waste time talking, I'd possibly give one
quick report and focus on the task at hand, and not count on
any help.


I'm sorry I don't see the situation you describe as life threatening.
Flares and radio calls are not called for at that point -it's not that
serious. You have one man uninjured, not overboard, not unconscious and
two able bodied crew to get him back on board. He can certainly hold on
to a rope to keep his head above water. You just have to get the boat
quickly to a state where she will look after herself and pull him back
on board.

Cheers