Please help settle an argument
 

My friend and I are having a disagreement regarding the behaviour of
sailboats on a mooring. We both have limited sailing experience, although he
has a fair amount more than I. We were discussing running up a spinnaker at
mooring in calm air, just to practice putting it up. We eventually
concluded that this wasn't practical, but the argument came in as to our our
different conclusions as to why it would not be. I felt that there would be
no point to put it up, as it would just get blown into the rigging and not
really tell us anything and possibly get torn. He was of the opinion that
somehow the spinnaker could push the boat to one side, fill and turn the
boat around. Initially he said it would go right upwind of the mooring,
then reduced his claim to say that it would turn around at the point where
it was attached to the line at the bow.

I am of the opinion that this is physically impossible and that under no
combination of sail at a mooring could the boat turn around so that the aft
was upwind. I am of the opinion that you could get the boat to swing to one
side or the other a bit by backing the jib, but you could still never turn
the boat around.

I would gratefully accept as many informed opinions as possible on this from
a sailing or physics point of view.

Fair winds,
Miles

Please help settle an argument
 

the argument came in as to our our
different conclusions as to why it would not be.

Well, this is a real duh.....your boat points into the wind on a
mooring....so you run up your chute and let it out....you now have one
useless shredded piece of spinnaker....even if you did get your boat turned
around the other way, then you become a hazard to anyone moored near you.
Our mooring balls are set so that the boats all swing equidistant from each
other...you start one swinging in the wrong way and possibly dragging and
you're really going to have a mess and possibly a very not-nice visit from
your neighbors. To sail off your mooring ball, you raise your main, hold
your rudder over hard making sure you have a good grip on the mainsheet, and
sail off.....when you have room to maneuver, that's when you decide what
else you're going to do....
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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Please help settle an argument
 

On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 11:37:52 -0300, "Blorgad"
wrote this crap:

My friend and I are having a disagreement regarding the behaviour of
sailboats on a mooring. We both have limited sailing experience, although he
has a fair amount more than I. We were discussing running up a spinnaker at
mooring in calm air, just to practice putting it up. We eventually
concluded that this wasn't practical, but the argument came in as to our our
different conclusions as to why it would not be. I felt that there would be
no point to put it up, as it would just get blown into the rigging and not
really tell us anything and possibly get torn. He was of the opinion that
somehow the spinnaker could push the boat to one side, fill and turn the
boat around. Initially he said it would go right upwind of the mooring,
then reduced his claim to say that it would turn around at the point where
it was attached to the line at the bow.

I am of the opinion that this is physically impossible and that under no
combination of sail at a mooring could the boat turn around so that the aft
was upwind. I am of the opinion that you could get the boat to swing to one
side or the other a bit by backing the jib, but you could still never turn
the boat around.

I would gratefully accept as many informed opinions as possible on this from
a sailing or physics point of view.

You are correct. A boat on a mooring ball always points into the
wind. No combination of sails will change that. The only way you
could change that is to attach the mooring ball to a stern line.

I have found that it's easier to grab a mooring ball by backing up to
it, with someone standing on the swim platform.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Please help settle an argument
 

I have found that it's easier to grab a mooring ball by backing up to
it, with someone standing on the swim platform.

That's so dumb it begs a kick in the rear....it is not difficult to catch a
mooring ball from the bow or from amidhips....if you got some crew that knew
what they were doing you wouldn't have these problems....

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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You misunderstand. The question is, is it possible, under any combination
of sail, to turn the aft of the boat to windward while at a mooring fixed to
the bow? As I reported we had both concluded that running up the spinnaker
in that case was not a good idea. My reasoning is your first reason, a
spinnaker piling up in the rigging. My friends concern was that it was
possible to turn the boat around and as you mentioned, become a hazard to
other boats. We were not wanting to nor considering turning the boat around,
I contend that that is a physical imposibility.


"katysails" wrote in message
...

the argument came in as to our our
different conclusions as to why it would not be.

Well, this is a real duh.....your boat points into the wind on a
mooring....so you run up your chute and let it out....you now have one
useless shredded piece of spinnaker....even if you did get your boat
turned
around the other way, then you become a hazard to anyone moored near you.
Our mooring balls are set so that the boats all swing equidistant from
each
other...you start one swinging in the wrong way and possibly dragging and
you're really going to have a mess and possibly a very not-nice visit from
your neighbors. To sail off your mooring ball, you raise your main, hold
your rudder over hard making sure you have a good grip on the mainsheet,
and
sail off.....when you have room to maneuver, that's when you decide what
else you're going to do....
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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Please help settle an argument
 

"Horvath" wrote in message
| I have found that it's easier to grab a mooring ball by backing up to
| it, with someone standing on the swim platform.

Bwahahahahahahaaaaaa..... that alone says volumes about your lack of skills
Horvat.

CM

Please help settle an argument
 

What kind of sail boat?
What kind of sail configuration?
Might be possible on a Hobie!

On a mast head sloop...... NO!

........caveat is no auxilliary assistance of course.

BTW - your friend isn't as experienced as he believes!

CM


"Blorgad" wrote in message
| The question is, is it possible, under any combination
| of sail, to turn the aft of the boat to windward while at a mooring fixed
to
| the bow?

Please help settle an argument
 

On a calm day, you could fly it. It would only work
if you attached the mooring pennant to the stern of
the boat. The bow would have to face downwind.

Blorgad wrote
My friend and I are having a disagreement regarding the behaviour of
sailboats on a mooring. We both have limited sailing experience, although
he
has a fair amount more than I. We were discussing running up a spinnaker
at
mooring in calm air, just to practice putting it up. We eventually
concluded that this wasn't practical, but the argument came in as to our
our
different conclusions as to why it would not be. I felt that there would
be
no point to put it up, as it would just get blown into the rigging and not
really tell us anything and possibly get torn. He was of the opinion that
somehow the spinnaker could push the boat to one side, fill and turn the
boat around. Initially he said it would go right upwind of the mooring,
then reduced his claim to say that it would turn around at the point where
it was attached to the line at the bow.

I am of the opinion that this is physically impossible and that under no
combination of sail at a mooring could the boat turn around so that the
aft
was upwind. I am of the opinion that you could get the boat to swing to
one
side or the other a bit by backing the jib, but you could still never turn
the boat around.

I would gratefully accept as many informed opinions as possible on this
from
a sailing or physics point of view.

Fair winds,
Miles

Please help settle an argument
 

Hi Bart senior,

Please read the letter again. The question is not how do we fly a spinnaker
while moored, but rather is it at all possible for a bow-moored boat to be
be turned around by a spinnaker, or any other combination of sails for that
matter, so that the aft end travels upwind?


"Bart Senior" wrote in message
t...
On a calm day, you could fly it. It would only work
if you attached the mooring pennant to the stern of
the boat. The bow would have to face downwind.

Blorgad wrote
My friend and I are having a disagreement regarding the behaviour of
sailboats on a mooring. We both have limited sailing experience,
although
he
has a fair amount more than I. We were discussing running up a
spinnaker
at
mooring in calm air, just to practice putting it up. We eventually
concluded that this wasn't practical, but the argument came in as to our
our
different conclusions as to why it would not be. I felt that there
would
be
no point to put it up, as it would just get blown into the rigging and
not
really tell us anything and possibly get torn. He was of the opinion
that
somehow the spinnaker could push the boat to one side, fill and turn
the
boat around. Initially he said it would go right upwind of the mooring,
then reduced his claim to say that it would turn around at the point
where
it was attached to the line at the bow.

I am of the opinion that this is physically impossible and that under no
combination of sail at a mooring could the boat turn around so that the
aft
was upwind. I am of the opinion that you could get the boat to swing to
one
side or the other a bit by backing the jib, but you could still never
turn
the boat around.

I would gratefully accept as many informed opinions as possible on this
from
a sailing or physics point of view.

Fair winds,
Miles

Please help settle an argument
 

What not transfer your anchor warp to the stern?

Cheers

Blorgad wrote:

My friend and I are having a disagreement regarding the behaviour of
sailboats on a mooring. We both have limited sailing experience, although he
has a fair amount more than I. We were discussing running up a spinnaker at
mooring in calm air, just to practice putting it up. We eventually
concluded that this wasn't practical, but the argument came in as to our our
different conclusions as to why it would not be. I felt that there would be
no point to put it up, as it would just get blown into the rigging and not
really tell us anything and possibly get torn. He was of the opinion that
somehow the spinnaker could push the boat to one side, fill and turn the
boat around. Initially he said it would go right upwind of the mooring,
then reduced his claim to say that it would turn around at the point where
it was attached to the line at the bow.

I am of the opinion that this is physically impossible and that under no
combination of sail at a mooring could the boat turn around so that the aft
was upwind. I am of the opinion that you could get the boat to swing to one
side or the other a bit by backing the jib, but you could still never turn
the boat around.

I would gratefully accept as many informed opinions as possible on this from
a sailing or physics point of view.

Fair winds,
Miles

Please help settle an argument
 

Horvath wrote:

I have found that it's easier to grab a boy by backing up to
him, with someone standing on the swim platform.

Please help settle an argument
 

Please read the letter again. The question is not how do we fly a spinnaker
while moored, but rather is it at all possible for a bow-moored boat to be
be turned around by a spinnaker, or any other combination of sails for that
matter, so that the aft end travels upwind?


"Nav" wrote in message
...
What not transfer your anchor warp to the stern?

Cheers

Blorgad wrote:

My friend and I are having a disagreement regarding the behaviour of
sailboats on a mooring. We both have limited sailing experience,
although he
has a fair amount more than I. We were discussing running up a
spinnaker at
mooring in calm air, just to practice putting it up. We eventually
concluded that this wasn't practical, but the argument came in as to our
our
different conclusions as to why it would not be. I felt that there
would be
no point to put it up, as it would just get blown into the rigging and
not
really tell us anything and possibly get torn. He was of the opinion
that
somehow the spinnaker could push the boat to one side, fill and turn
the
boat around. Initially he said it would go right upwind of the mooring,
then reduced his claim to say that it would turn around at the point
where
it was attached to the line at the bow.

I am of the opinion that this is physically impossible and that under no
combination of sail at a mooring could the boat turn around so that the
aft
was upwind. I am of the opinion that you could get the boat to swing to
one
side or the other a bit by backing the jib, but you could still never
turn
the boat around.

I would gratefully accept as many informed opinions as possible on this
from
a sailing or physics point of view.

Fair winds,
Miles

Please help settle an argument
 

But why ask about such a foolish act grasshopper?

Cheers


Blorgad wrote:

Please read the letter again. The question is not how do we fly a spinnaker
while moored, but rather is it at all possible for a bow-moored boat to be
be turned around by a spinnaker, or any other combination of sails for that
matter, so that the aft end travels upwind?


"Nav" wrote in message
...

What not transfer your anchor warp to the stern?

Cheers

Blorgad wrote:


My friend and I are having a disagreement regarding the behaviour of
sailboats on a mooring. We both have limited sailing experience,

although he

has a fair amount more than I. We were discussing running up a

spinnaker at

mooring in calm air, just to practice putting it up. We eventually
concluded that this wasn't practical, but the argument came in as to our

our

different conclusions as to why it would not be. I felt that there

would be

no point to put it up, as it would just get blown into the rigging and

not

really tell us anything and possibly get torn. He was of the opinion

that

somehow the spinnaker could push the boat to one side, fill and turn

the

boat around. Initially he said it would go right upwind of the mooring,
then reduced his claim to say that it would turn around at the point

where

it was attached to the line at the bow.

I am of the opinion that this is physically impossible and that under no
combination of sail at a mooring could the boat turn around so that the

aft

was upwind. I am of the opinion that you could get the boat to swing to

one

side or the other a bit by backing the jib, but you could still never

turn

the boat around.

I would gratefully accept as many informed opinions as possible on this

from

a sailing or physics point of view.

Fair winds,
Miles

Please help settle an argument
 

We are disagreeing about fundamental behaviour characteristics of sailboats.
It has extended beyond our discussion of how to deal with a spinnaker into a
situation where we disagree on what is within and without the realm of
possibility. So, as competitive men are wont to do, we are trying to settle
it. So, do you have an opinion, or you going to Zen master me into a
frenzy?


"Nav" wrote in message
...
But why ask about such a foolish act grasshopper?

Cheers


Blorgad wrote:

Please read the letter again. The question is not how do we fly a
spinnaker
while moored, but rather is it at all possible for a bow-moored boat to
be
be turned around by a spinnaker, or any other combination of sails for
that
matter, so that the aft end travels upwind?


"Nav" wrote in message
...

What not transfer your anchor warp to the stern?

Cheers

Blorgad wrote:


My friend and I are having a disagreement regarding the behaviour of
sailboats on a mooring. We both have limited sailing experience,

although he

has a fair amount more than I. We were discussing running up a

spinnaker at

mooring in calm air, just to practice putting it up. We eventually
concluded that this wasn't practical, but the argument came in as to
our

our

different conclusions as to why it would not be. I felt that there

would be

no point to put it up, as it would just get blown into the rigging and

not

really tell us anything and possibly get torn. He was of the opinion

that

somehow the spinnaker could push the boat to one side, fill and turn

the

boat around. Initially he said it would go right upwind of the
mooring,
then reduced his claim to say that it would turn around at the point

where

it was attached to the line at the bow.

I am of the opinion that this is physically impossible and that under
no
combination of sail at a mooring could the boat turn around so that the

aft

was upwind. I am of the opinion that you could get the boat to swing
to

one

side or the other a bit by backing the jib, but you could still never

turn

the boat around.

I would gratefully accept as many informed opinions as possible on this

from

a sailing or physics point of view.

Fair winds,
Miles

Please help settle an argument
 

Think of a boat sailing on her mooring. Does not the aft end follow the
bow? As she sails across the wind -tied to the mooring -does she not
advance a little way up wind before stalling and tacking off again?

Does that help you think more clearly grasshopper?


Cheers




Blorgad wrote:

We are disagreeing about fundamental behaviour characteristics of sailboats.
It has extended beyond our discussion of how to deal with a spinnaker into a
situation where we disagree on what is within and without the realm of
possibility. So, as competitive men are wont to do, we are trying to settle
it. So, do you have an opinion, or you going to Zen master me into a
frenzy?


"Nav" wrote in message
...

But why ask about such a foolish act grasshopper?

Cheers


Blorgad wrote:


Please read the letter again. The question is not how do we fly a

spinnaker

while moored, but rather is it at all possible for a bow-moored boat to

be

be turned around by a spinnaker, or any other combination of sails for

that

matter, so that the aft end travels upwind?


"Nav" wrote in message
...


What not transfer your anchor warp to the stern?

Cheers

Blorgad wrote:



My friend and I are having a disagreement regarding the behaviour of
sailboats on a mooring. We both have limited sailing experience,

although he


has a fair amount more than I. We were discussing running up a

spinnaker at


mooring in calm air, just to practice putting it up. We eventually
concluded that this wasn't practical, but the argument came in as to

our

our


different conclusions as to why it would not be. I felt that there

would be


no point to put it up, as it would just get blown into the rigging and

not


really tell us anything and possibly get torn. He was of the opinion

that


somehow the spinnaker could push the boat to one side, fill and turn

the


boat around. Initially he said it would go right upwind of the

mooring,

then reduced his claim to say that it would turn around at the point

where


it was attached to the line at the bow.

I am of the opinion that this is physically impossible and that under

no

combination of sail at a mooring could the boat turn around so that the

aft


was upwind. I am of the opinion that you could get the boat to swing

to

one


side or the other a bit by backing the jib, but you could still never

turn


the boat around.

I would gratefully accept as many informed opinions as possible on this

from


a sailing or physics point of view.

Fair winds,
Miles

Please help settle an argument
 

Aw fer cripes sake... just tell him it can't be done.... and be done with
it!
It's like you are doin' a Feng Shui Shish Kabob with the poor guy here!

CM

"Nav" wrote in message
...
| Think of a boat sailing on her mooring. Does not the aft end follow the
| bow? As she sails across the wind -tied to the mooring -does she not
| advance a little way up wind before stalling and tacking off again?
|
| Does that help you think more clearly grasshopper?

Please help settle an argument
 

Excuse me, but O find your whole question totally illogical. Why even
suppose that it could? There is no advantage to or purpose in doing what
you ask. And it oddly sounds like a Bobsprit question.

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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Please help settle an argument
 

But why ask about such a foolish act grasshopper?

Cheers

Bobsprit puppet.....

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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Please help settle an argument
 

On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 16:15:36 -0400, "katysails"
wrote this crap:

I have found that it's easier to grab a mooring ball by backing up to
it, with someone standing on the swim platform.

That's so dumb it begs a kick in the rear....it is not difficult to catch a
mooring ball from the bow or from amidhips....if you got some crew that knew
what they were doing you wouldn't have these problems....

My deck is too high for anyone to grab a mooring ball. You can grab
it with a dock pole, but you can't reach down far enough to tie a line
onto it.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Please help settle an argument
 

On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 08:29:49 +1000, OzOne wrote this crap:

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 16:14:00 -0400, Horvath
scribbled thusly:

I have found that it's easier to grab a mooring ball by backing up to
it, with someone standing on the swim platform.

And what then?
Drag it up to the bow?
How do you manage to hold the boat against a decent breeze, especially
when it turns beam on to the breeze?

You're not very bright, are you? You tie a line to your bow cleat,
and bring the other end back to the swim platform. The preson on the
swim platform ties that end onto the mooring ball. Then he goes up to
the bow and pulls the boat in.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Please help settle an argument
 

The path to enlightenment is paved with the stones of analysis, thought,
logic and deduction. He must pave his own way as we all have done. Only
the true sailor is capable of original thought (This excludes most
people with motorboats).

Cheers




Capt. Mooron wrote:

Aw fer cripes sake... just tell him it can't be done.... and be done with
it!
It's like you are doin' a Feng Shui Shish Kabob with the poor guy here!

CM

"Nav" wrote in message
...
| Think of a boat sailing on her mooring. Does not the aft end follow the
| bow? As she sails across the wind -tied to the mooring -does she not
| advance a little way up wind before stalling and tacking off again?
|
| Does that help you think more clearly grasshopper?

Please help settle an argument
 

Horvath wrote:



My deck is too high for anyone to grab a mooring ball.

Clean it up then!

Cheers

Please help settle an argument
 

No I'm not.

Cheers

katysails wrote:

But why ask about such a foolish act grasshopper?

Cheers

Bobsprit puppet.....

Please help settle an argument
 

Horvatrh,
I think most people assume that if you're mooring on a mooring ball, the
mooring belongs to you and it has established lines already attached....if
you have to attach lines, I see why you back up to it but that is certainly
not the usual method of catching a can....

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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Please help settle an argument
 

MC,
Just what are you smoking these days?

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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Please help settle an argument
 

katysails wrote:

But why ask about such a foolish act grasshopper?

Bobsprit puppet.....

No I'm not.

Cheers

Should have known when you spelled behavior "behaviour".....

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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Please help settle an argument
 

On Mon, 5 Jul 2004 06:42:39 -0400, "katysails"
wrote this crap:

Horvatrh,
I think most people assume that if you're mooring on a mooring ball, the
mooring belongs to you and it has established lines already attached....if
you have to attach lines, I see why you back up to it but that is certainly
not the usual method of catching a can....


I've never seen a mooring ball with lines already attached. But the
only mooring balls I've seen are public balls.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Please help settle an argument
 

On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 21:27:50 +1000, OzOne wrote this crap:

You're not very bright, are you? You tie a line to your bow cleat,
and bring the other end back to the swim platform. The preson on the
swim platform ties that end onto the mooring ball. Then he goes up to
the bow and pulls the boat in.


You tie off to the ball!?

Who are you calling not bright?

I don't know about the balls where you live, but here, there's a ring
attached to the top of the ball, where you tie off.




Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Please help settle an argument
 

On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 16:29:06 +1200, Nav wrote
this crap:



Horvath wrote:



My deck is too high for anyone to grab a mooring ball.

Clean it up then!

Huh? Clean what up?




Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Please help settle an argument
 

"Horvath" wrote


I've never seen a mooring ball with lines already attached. But the
only mooring balls I've seen are public balls.

You've never been to Annapolis, then.

--
Scotty
S/V Lisa Marie
Balt. MD USA

Please help settle an argument
 

Dude, I have done my own analysis and deduction based on thought and logic.
I am looking to have it confirmed or denied. A little swinging back and
forth aside, I do not believe that it is possible for a spinnaker
particularly, but any other combination of sail for that matter, to turn a
boat on a bow mooring aft to wind. I believe that as all forces are
transferred to the boat aft of the bow, that the boat must be swung aft to
lee. Would you please be so kind as to weigh in with a non-arcane opinion?


"Nav" wrote in message
...
The path to enlightenment is paved with the stones of analysis, thought,
logic and deduction. He must pave his own way as we all have done. Only
the true sailor is capable of original thought (This excludes most
people with motorboats).

Cheers




Capt. Mooron wrote:

Aw fer cripes sake... just tell him it can't be done.... and be done
with
it!
It's like you are doin' a Feng Shui Shish Kabob with the poor guy here!

CM

"Nav" wrote in message
...
| Think of a boat sailing on her mooring. Does not the aft end follow
the
| bow? As she sails across the wind -tied to the mooring -does she not
| advance a little way up wind before stalling and tacking off again?
|
| Does that help you think more clearly grasshopper?

Please help settle an argument
 

Yo Dude, did you consider a 5kt current with an opposing 1~2kt wind?

Scotty Dude

"Blorgad" wrote in message
...
Dude, I have done my own analysis and deduction based on thought and
logic.

Please help settle an argument
 

Yes I have, but this is really a question about what the sails are capable
of. That could occur with current with or without sails. I do not believe
that the sails could turn the boat aft to wind while on a mooring, spinnaker
or otherwise.


"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Yo Dude, did you consider a 5kt current with an opposing 1~2kt wind?

Scotty Dude

"Blorgad" wrote in message
...
Dude, I have done my own analysis and deduction based on thought and
logic.

Please help settle an argument
 

I meant to practice raising your spinn.


"Blorgad" wrote in message
...
Yes I have, but this is really a question about what the sails are capable
of. That could occur with current with or without sails. I do not
believe
that the sails could turn the boat aft to wind while on a mooring,
spinnaker
or otherwise.


"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Yo Dude, did you consider a 5kt current with an opposing 1~2kt wind?

Scotty Dude

"Blorgad" wrote in message
...
Dude, I have done my own analysis and deduction based on thought and
logic.

Please help settle an argument
 

"Blorgad" wrote in

I do not believe
that the sails could turn the boat aft to wind while on a mooring,
spinnaker
or otherwise.


Sure they could, if you knew what you were doing.

Sv

Please help settle an argument
 

I see what you mean, however, if you look where the force of the sail is
transferred to the boat, I believe that even under those circumstances, the
spinnaker would then want to turn the boat aft to lee once again. Even if
the wind was light enough not to allow that to happen, that would be what
the force would be attempting to do. Just to clarify, my argument with my
friend is, "can a spinnaker turn the boat aft to wind?". I believe the
answer is no.


"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
I meant to practice raising your spinn.


"Blorgad" wrote in message
...
Yes I have, but this is really a question about what the sails are
capable
of. That could occur with current with or without sails. I do not
believe
that the sails could turn the boat aft to wind while on a mooring,
spinnaker
or otherwise.


"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Yo Dude, did you consider a 5kt current with an opposing 1~2kt wind?

Scotty Dude

"Blorgad" wrote in message
...
Dude, I have done my own analysis and deduction based on thought
and
logic.

Please help settle an argument
 

"Horvath" wrote

You are correct. A boat on a mooring ball always points into the
wind.


YOU are NOT correct.

Scotty

Please help settle an argument
 

Let's pretend that you knew what you were doing. How would you use your
sails to turn a normal fractional-rig sloop aft to wind while on a mooring?
I can visualize a possibility with something with a mizzen-sail, but I can't
see it on a sloop and particularly not with a spinnaker.


"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...

"Blorgad" wrote in

I do not believe
that the sails could turn the boat aft to wind while on a mooring,
spinnaker
or otherwise.


Sure they could, if you knew what you were doing.

Sv

Please help settle an argument
 

Why don't you read my response again, you idiot.

Blorgad wrote

Hi Bart senior,

Please read the letter again. The question is not how do we fly a
spinnaker
while moored, but rather is it at all possible for a bow-moored boat to be
be turned around by a spinnaker, or any other combination of sails for
that
matter, so that the aft end travels upwind?


"Bart Senior" wrote

On a calm day, you could fly it. It would only work
if you attached the mooring pennant to the stern of
the boat. The bow would have to face downwind.

Blorgad wrote
My friend and I are having a disagreement regarding the behaviour of
sailboats on a mooring. We both have limited sailing experience,
although
he
has a fair amount more than I. We were discussing running up a
spinnaker
at
mooring in calm air, just to practice putting it up. We eventually
concluded that this wasn't practical, but the argument came in as to
our
our
different conclusions as to why it would not be. I felt that there
would
be
no point to put it up, as it would just get blown into the rigging and
not
really tell us anything and possibly get torn. He was of the opinion
that
somehow the spinnaker could push the boat to one side, fill and turn
the
boat around. Initially he said it would go right upwind of the
mooring,
then reduced his claim to say that it would turn around at the point
where
it was attached to the line at the bow.

I am of the opinion that this is physically impossible and that under
no
combination of sail at a mooring could the boat turn around so that
the
aft
was upwind. I am of the opinion that you could get the boat to swing
to
one
side or the other a bit by backing the jib, but you could still never
turn
the boat around.

I would gratefully accept as many informed opinions as possible on
this
from
a sailing or physics point of view.

Fair winds,
Miles

Please help settle an argument
 

You know, the name calling really isn't called for. You state that flying a
spinnaker would only work if moored to the aft. I agree. However, do you
believe that it is at all possible for a bow-moored boat to be
be turned around by a spinnaker, or any other combination of sails for
that matter, so that the aft end travels upwind?


"Bart Senior" wrote in message
t...
Why don't you read my response again, you idiot.

Blorgad wrote

Hi Bart senior,

Please read the letter again. The question is not how do we fly a
spinnaker
while moored, but rather is it at all possible for a bow-moored boat to
be
be turned around by a spinnaker, or any other combination of sails for
that
matter, so that the aft end travels upwind?


"Bart Senior" wrote

On a calm day, you could fly it. It would only work
if you attached the mooring pennant to the stern of
the boat. The bow would have to face downwind.

Blorgad wrote
My friend and I are having a disagreement regarding the behaviour of
sailboats on a mooring. We both have limited sailing experience,
although
he
has a fair amount more than I. We were discussing running up a
spinnaker
at
mooring in calm air, just to practice putting it up. We eventually
concluded that this wasn't practical, but the argument came in as to
our
our
different conclusions as to why it would not be. I felt that there
would
be
no point to put it up, as it would just get blown into the rigging
and
not
really tell us anything and possibly get torn. He was of the
opinion
that
somehow the spinnaker could push the boat to one side, fill and
turn
the
boat around. Initially he said it would go right upwind of the
mooring,
then reduced his claim to say that it would turn around at the point
where
it was attached to the line at the bow.

I am of the opinion that this is physically impossible and that
under
no
combination of sail at a mooring could the boat turn around so that
the
aft
was upwind. I am of the opinion that you could get the boat to
swing
to
one
side or the other a bit by backing the jib, but you could still
never
turn
the boat around.

I would gratefully accept as many informed opinions as possible on
this
from
a sailing or physics point of view.

Fair winds,
Miles