You are sailing in a one-design fleet.

Your sail trim is good, your crew coordination
is fine, your boat bottom is clean and perfect.

You are following the fastest boat in the fleet,
pointing as well, and factors like crew weight
and position are the same. Sail trim looks
identical between the two boats.

But the other boat has consistent better speed
upwind, while you have similar speed downwind.

What factors might be making the other boat faster?

I would think you'd like this question. An Etchells
article got me thinking about this again.

OzOne wrote
On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 05:00:38 GMT, "Bart Senior"
scribbled thusly:

You are sailing in a one-design fleet.

Your sail trim is good, your crew coordination
is fine, your boat bottom is clean and perfect.

You are following the fastest boat in the fleet,
pointing as well, and factors like crew weight
and position are the same. Sail trim looks
identical between the two boats.

But the other boat has consistent better speed
upwind, while you have similar speed downwind.

What factors might be making the other boat faster?

You're a tiller wiggler!

Oz1...of the 3 twins.

Steering well takes practice. I agree with you 100% about
pointing too high. Most people pinch. It is frustrating to me
to see it and point it out, and then be ignored while the
competition walks over us. The smartest thing a helmsman
can do is listen to his crew when they tell him he is pinching.

I've seen great starts and great leads blown by pinching drivers.
You can coach someone during a start and they will listen--when
they are stressed out, but once things settle down on a beat, then
the helmsman wants to assert himself and won't listen.

Also it is common for other boats to point higher when
someone else is watching. The idea being--point high when
someone is watching, and get them to pinch and slow down.
Crew will report when someone is pointing higher than you,
and that reinforces the pinching syndrome. The helmsman
freaks out, points higher, and slows the boat down.

*****

I've also seen one minor change in rigging make a significant
improvement in boat speed. Which is why I posed this
question.

The one that comes to mind is headstay or forestay length.
Adding one inch on an Express 37 I crewed on moved us up
the fleet from the bottom third to top half overnight. We've
talked about this in past discussions.

Ken Read made a change like this to help him with his
impressive series in last years Etchells worlds.



OzOne wrote

Bart, I just love this stuff and to be very honest, often the cause of
lack of pace uphill is the wiggler.

Either that or you've got yourself fooled that you are actually going
as high as the other boat.

Often, he is actually sailing a tad lower and faster than you but uses
gusts to let the boat climb ever so slightly to make up the difference
whereas you are sailing high and slow the whole time.

I love one design!

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 07:47:29 GMT, "Bart Senior"
scribbled thusly:

I would think you'd like this question. An Etchells
article got me thinking about this again.

OzOne wrote
On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 05:00:38 GMT, "Bart Senior"
scribbled thusly:

You are sailing in a one-design fleet.

Your sail trim is good, your crew coordination
is fine, your boat bottom is clean and perfect.

You are following the fastest boat in the fleet,
pointing as well, and factors like crew weight
and position are the same. Sail trim looks
identical between the two boats.

But the other boat has consistent better speed
upwind, while you have similar speed downwind.

What factors might be making the other boat faster?

You're a tiller wiggler!

Oz1...of the 3 twins.

They might have used a VC product on their bottom...their sails might be
newer, their instruments are better, Bobsprit is on your boat.

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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Helm plus your crew aren't sitting down and concentrating on their jobs
-they're too busy watching the guy in front (and they are adding wind
resistance)...

Cheers

Bart Senior wrote:

You are sailing in a one-design fleet.

Your sail trim is good, your crew coordination
is fine, your boat bottom is clean and perfect.

You are following the fastest boat in the fleet,
pointing as well, and factors like crew weight
and position are the same. Sail trim looks
identical between the two boats.

But the other boat has consistent better speed
upwind, while you have similar speed downwind.

What factors might be making the other boat faster?

Bart Senior wrote:
Steering well takes practice.

It also takes good self discipline, or possibly a Zen approach, as *not*
steering is faster! This is what Ozzy meant by being a "tiller wiggler."


... I agree with you 100% about
pointing too high. Most people pinch. It is frustrating to me
to see it and point it out, and then be ignored while the
competition walks over us. The smartest thing a helmsman
can do is listen to his crew when they tell him he is pinching.

Well, the crew should be doing something else besides watching the
telltales. But pinching is not good.

A few months ago I was invited to race on a Beneteau F347 and ended up
helming at the start. I was pinching the boat too much, and let a number
of smaller & theoretically slower boats drive out from under us.
Frustrating. We got it all back though. It was a heavy air race... lots
of fun.



Also it is common for other boats to point higher when
someone else is watching. The idea being--point high when
someone is watching, and get them to pinch and slow down.
Crew will report when someone is pointing higher than you,
and that reinforces the pinching syndrome. The helmsman
freaks out, points higher, and slows the boat down.

Another issue is that boats often *look* like their pointing higher than
they are. The ideal course on a beat is to scallop very slightly,
footing and then pinching. This does a couple of things... if you time
it right, it gets you best VMG through wind shifts too small to tack on;
it puts you in phase with waves & groups of waves, it ensures that you
don't miss any lifts. It also helps you shake off any cover or bury
anybody that you are covering if they're trying to get out of phase with
you.


*****

I've also seen one minor change in rigging make a significant
improvement in boat speed. Which is why I posed this
question.

The one that comes to mind is headstay or forestay length.

Sure. Mast rake is very important, and as you said, increasing it will
help upwind speed but hurt downwind.


Adding one inch on an Express 37 I crewed on moved us up
the fleet from the bottom third to top half overnight. We've
talked about this in past discussions.

Ken Read made a change like this to help him with his
impressive series in last years Etchells worlds.

Sometimes there are breakthroughs in tuning... like when a Brazilian
team won the Lightning Worlds with a mast that was not raked at all...
made their jib look very funny. Their pointing was good but they won by
downwind speed. Now rigs are getting raked more again.... fads come & go!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Hey Doug here's a good helming question for you:


Lets say you are racing hard on the wind with no boats near you and the
wind strength changes from 10 to 15 knots with the same direction.

Q1) As helm what should you first do first:

1) Nothing and wait
2) Immmediately change course to keep apparent wind direction the same
3) Counter increased weather helm but keep course the same
4) Reduce helm and let boat round up more quickly
5) None of the above -explain.


Q2. The wind drops to 10 knots again with no change in direction.

Your immediate reaction is to...

There's some good racing lessons in the answers and their explanations.

Cheers

OzOne wrote:

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 10:09:02 +1200, Nav
scribbled thusly:



Hey Doug here's a good helming question for you:


Lets say you are racing hard on the wind with no boats near you and the
wind strength changes from 10 to 15 knots with the same direction.

Q1) As helm what should you first do first:

1) Nothing and wait
2) Immmediately change course to keep apparent wind direction the same
3) Counter increased weather helm but keep course the same
4) Reduce helm and let boat round up more quickly
5) None of the above -explain.


Q2. The wind drops to 10 knots again with no change in direction.

Your immediate reaction is to...

There's some good racing lessons in the answers and their explanations.

Cheers


Navvie, Doug can drive.
The answers fron others like Donal could be interesting :-)


We know he can drive but I wonder if he can answer the Q's correctly.
Why not let him email you the answer...

Cheers

OzOne wrote:


The answers fron others like Donal could be interesting :-)



Donal won't know.

Cheers

Nav wrote:
Hey Doug here's a good helming question for you:


Lets say you are racing hard on the wind with no boats near you and the
wind strength changes from 10 to 15 knots with the same direction.

Q1) As helm what should you first do first:

1) Nothing and wait
2) Immmediately change course to keep apparent wind direction the same
3) Counter increased weather helm but keep course the same
4) Reduce helm and let boat round up more quickly
5) None of the above -explain.

It depends largely on the boat & crew. The difference between 10 knots
true wind and 15 knots true wind is rather substantial, at ten you're
still powering up and at fifteen you're depowering. In some boats you'd
be reefing.

In general, the response to a short term increase in wind is to feather
up slightly, traveller down slightly... also tighten the backstay, and
bring the jib sheet leads aft a bit. Then yell "Hike, dammit!" at the crew.


Q2. The wind drops to 10 knots again with no change in direction.

Your immediate reaction is to...

Undo everything above.


There's some good racing lessons in the answers and their explanations.

We'd be glad to see your explanation.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King