Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

Another question inspired by a Dutch sailor. I caught on
to what he was doing, because I was not occupied with
anything else at the time. No one else on board did.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]

While motor sailing, close hauled, you trim your jib so that it is
slightly luffing?

Why would you do this?

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

Well, it's not particularly good to heel excessively when motor sailing,
as you may have the engine water intake out of the water from time to
time. But the main would contribe to heel also.. more in fact, so I'm
not sure why. Perhaps so it doesn't backwind and slow the boat down?
Excessive luffing damages the sail of course.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Bart Senior" wrote in message
. net...
Another question inspired by a Dutch sailor. I caught on
to what he was doing, because I was not occupied with
anything else at the time. No one else on board did.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]

While motor sailing, close hauled, you trim your jib so that it is
slightly luffing?

Why would you do this?

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

You can point higher when motor sailing. The main can easily be oversheeted,
but usually the jib can't be. The net VMG will be better even though the sails
aren't as efficient. Also, the ride will be easier than powering straight into
a chop.



"Bart Senior" wrote in message
. net...
Another question inspired by a Dutch sailor. I caught on
to what he was doing, because I was not occupied with
anything else at the time. No one else on board did.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]

While motor sailing, close hauled, you trim your jib so that it is
slightly luffing?

Why would you do this?

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

Incorrect Jon. I don't think anyone will get this one. It's subtle.

Jonathan Ganz wrote
Well, it's not particularly good to heel excessively when motor sailing,
as you may have the engine water intake out of the water from time to
time. But the main would contribe to heel also.. more in fact, so I'm
not sure why. Perhaps so it doesn't backwind and slow the boat down?
Excessive luffing damages the sail of course.

"Bart Senior" wrote in message

Another question inspired by a Dutch sailor. I caught on
to what he was doing, because I was not occupied with
anything else at the time. No one else on board did.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]

While motor sailing, close hauled, you trim your jib so that it is
slightly luffing?

Why would you do this?

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

not sure, but is it because you don't want a "false full sail" that is
actually the result of apparent wind caused by motoring?
Scout

"Bart Senior" wrote in message
. net...
Another question inspired by a Dutch sailor. I caught on
to what he was doing, because I was not occupied with
anything else at the time. No one else on board did.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]

While motor sailing, close hauled, you trim your jib so that it is
slightly luffing?

Why would you do this?

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

Cuts down on the ship roll.



"Bart Senior" wrote in message
. net...
Another question inspired by a Dutch sailor. I caught on
to what he was doing, because I was not occupied with
anything else at the time. No one else on board did.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]

While motor sailing, close hauled, you trim your jib so that it is
slightly luffing?

Why would you do this?

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

Bart Senior wrote:

Another question inspired by a Dutch sailor. I caught on
to what he was doing, because I was not occupied with
anything else at the time. No one else on board did.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]

While motor sailing, close hauled, you trim your jib so that it is
slightly luffing?

Why would you do this?

Not sure, maybe to maximize VMG... in lulls, the motor keeps the boat
driving & pointing high, in gusts the apparent wind shifts aft & the
sail drives the boat more. It may also make it easier to balance the
helm with the sails.

Also, if you have your sails up you can claim ROW over motorboats, and
they aren't smart enough to see it's luffing ;)

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

Why would you do this?

It looks impressive to the PowerBoaters......

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

Bob,

If youre IQ is 163, this should be easy for you?

Hint: The man was smart and lazy

Bart Senior wrote

Another question inspired by a Dutch sailor. I caught on
to what he was doing, because I was not occupied with
anything else at the time. No one else on board did.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]

While motor sailing, close hauled, you trim your jib so that it is
slightly luffing?

Why would you do this?

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

The answer is simpler than that. Read the hint I posted.

Jeff Morris wrote

You can point higher when motor sailing. The main can easily be
oversheeted,
but usually the jib can't be. The net VMG will be better even though the
sails
aren't as efficient. Also, the ride will be easier than powering straight
into
a chop.


"Bart Senior" wrote in message

Another question inspired by a Dutch sailor. I caught on
to what he was doing, because I was not occupied with
anything else at the time. No one else on board did.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]

While motor sailing, close hauled, you trim your jib so that it is
slightly luffing?

Why would you do this?

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

he is using the jib to steer the boat
Scout


"Bart Senior" wrote in message
. net...
The answer is simpler than that. Read the hint I posted.

Jeff Morris wrote

You can point higher when motor sailing. The main can easily be
oversheeted,
but usually the jib can't be. The net VMG will be better even though
the
sails
aren't as efficient. Also, the ride will be easier than powering
straight
into
a chop.


"Bart Senior" wrote in message

Another question inspired by a Dutch sailor. I caught on
to what he was doing, because I was not occupied with
anything else at the time. No one else on board did.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]

While motor sailing, close hauled, you trim your jib so that it is
slightly luffing?

Why would you do this?

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

Does it eases the weather helm and takes the strain off the tiller?

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

i.e. - in conjunction with the fixed (set) tiller
Scout

"Scout" wrote
he is using the jib to steer the boat

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

Bob,

If youre IQ is 163, this should be easy for you?

Hint: The man was smart and lazy

Well, I had considered Doug's response, but rejected it because if the majority
of time is spent in the steady air and a little time in puffs, it would be more
efficient to trim for the steady air and just head up a bit in the puffs rather
than sail with a luffing sail just to deal with an occasional puff. Plus, if
one is motorsailing to begin with, the puffs are probably not big enough to
cause the boat to round up or throw the boat off course close hauled in the
first place. So, I don't know the answer.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

Ah yes Bart,

A condition I often experience. Using your engine to get higher on the
wind than your sails will take you.

Sailors sometimes motor sail, as I do, to get running time on the
engine. When you are doing this, why not get to windward as much a
possible while using the engine. When you shutdown the engine your
up-wind work is behind you and the sailing is free, easy and quite.

Luffing slightly reduces resistance to a higher heading. If working
directly into the wind and tacking, you work higher using the motor to
get better wind angle on the next tack

Ole Thom

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

Bart Senior wrote:

While motor sailing, close hauled, you trim your jib so that it is
slightly luffing?

Why would you do this?

Something to do with not having to ease the jib - wouldn't the wind shift
aft if the boat slowed down?


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

Also, if you have your sails up you can claim ROW over motorboats, and
they aren't smart enough to see it's luffing

No. When you are motorsailing, you are a motorboat. Having your sails
up is meaningless as far as your position in the pecking order if your
engine is running, even if it is in neutral.

BB

BB, come on, get your helmet on and get in the game. He knew that. He was
saying you could make powerboaters (who generally clear out for a sailboat no
matter what, if they are paying attention) THINK you were sailing.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:35:09 GMT, "Bart Senior"
wrote:

The answer is simpler than that. Read the hint I posted.

Chicks dig it.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

I have not seen Dougs response. My server may not be posting
everything promptly.

It's not an easy one. This is why I made it a 15 point question.

If no one gets it by tomorrow, I'll reveal the answer and you
will all kick yourselves! Or maybe, I'll reduce the number of
points and give another hint.

Bobspirt wrote
Bob,

If youre IQ is 163, this should be easy for you?

Hint: The man was smart and lazy

Well, I had considered Doug's response, but rejected it because if the
majority
of time is spent in the steady air and a little time in puffs, it would be
more
efficient to trim for the steady air and just head up a bit in the puffs
rather
than sail with a luffing sail just to deal with an occasional puff. Plus,
if
one is motorsailing to begin with, the puffs are probably not big enough
to
cause the boat to round up or throw the boat off course close hauled in
the
first place. So, I don't know the answer.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

"Bart Senior" wrote in message .net...
Another question inspired by a Dutch sailor. I caught on
to what he was doing, because I was not occupied with
anything else at the time. No one else on board did.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]

While motor sailing, close hauled, you trim your jib so that it is
slightly luffing?

Why would you do this?

To dump air faster. The curve of the sail and speed of wind across the
surface might be slower than the speed your motoring. Until the wind
is strong enough to stop the lufing it might cause drag.

Joe

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

It would still be unlawful, regardless of what you stupid
stinkpotters/lubbers think.


If the other boat gives way; you can hold your course and not violate any
law. If there is a collision you would be at fault. If there is no collision
how is it against the law? Unless you actually tell the other boat that you
are under sail?

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

If there is a collision you would be at fault.

Sounds like it's unlawful, then, doesn't it?

The sailboat would not automatically be at fault and it would not be unlawful
to allow a powerboater to form a mistaken impression. BB, you need to study up
a bit.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

Nice try Thom. The answer is much simpler than that.

No one will get it. I should post the answer. Again
the hints are this is a lazy and smart skipper.

Thom Stewart wrote

Ah yes Bart,

A condition I often experience. Using your engine to get higher on the
wind than your sails will take you.

Sailors sometimes motor sail, as I do, to get running time on the
engine. When you are doing this, why not get to windward as much a
possible while using the engine. When you shutdown the engine your
up-wind work is behind you and the sailing is free, easy and quite.

Luffing slightly reduces resistance to a higher heading. If working
directly into the wind and tacking, you work higher using the motor to
get better wind angle on the next tack

Ole Thom

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

Remember the fellow a lazy, smart, sailor!

Bobspirt wrote in message
...
Also, if you have your sails up you can claim ROW over motorboats, and
they aren't smart enough to see it's luffing

No. When you are motorsailing, you are a motorboat. Having your sails
up is meaningless as far as your position in the pecking order if your
engine is running, even if it is in neutral.

BB

BB, come on, get your helmet on and get in the game. He knew that. He
was
saying you could make powerboaters (who generally clear out for a sailboat
no
matter what, if they are paying attention) THINK you were sailing.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

Remember the fellow a lazy, smart, sailor!


He kills the engine in a crossing situation.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

He kills the engine in a crossing situation.

Hummm..... another good reason for a remote kill switch..

John

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 12:00:59 -0500, "FamilySailor" wrote:


It would still be unlawful, regardless of what you stupid
stinkpotters/lubbers think.


If the other boat gives way; you can hold your course and not violate any
law. If there is a collision you would be at fault. If there is no collision
how is it against the law? Unless you actually tell the other boat that you
are under sail?

If you have the sails up and are running the motor as well, you are
supposed to hoist an inverted triangle dayshape to let everyone know
that you are legally a powerboat for navigation purposes.

I don't know anyone who actually does this.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

I've never seen anyone do it, even when next to a CG vessel.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"A. Diesel Vents" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 12:00:59 -0500, "FamilySailor" wrote:


It would still be unlawful, regardless of what you stupid
stinkpotters/lubbers think.


If the other boat gives way; you can hold your course and not violate any
law. If there is a collision you would be at fault. If there is no
collision
how is it against the law? Unless you actually tell the other boat that
you
are under sail?

If you have the sails up and are running the motor as well, you are
supposed to hoist an inverted triangle dayshape to let everyone know
that you are legally a powerboat for navigation purposes.

I don't know anyone who actually does this.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

Humm..... I agree with everything you said, except the point about breaking
the law, if the other boat alters course before you do and he makes HIS
intentions clear, if you maintain your course you did NOT break any law.

Are you saying we should hail or signal him and inform him that he is
breaking the law by giving way, because we have our motor running and he
better get back on course so we can give way. I give way many time I have
the right of way, because I value my sailboat and crew.

John

You are completely wrong. If you are running your engine you must
conduct yourself as a motor vessel. You must show the proper lights or
day shapes, and if there are any questions as to who is the stand on
vessel and who is the give way vessel, you must communicate by what
ever means available, including, but not limited to, VHF, Horns, Loud
Hailer, etc. Even using "body english" by turning your vessel sharply
to indicate that you are changing course and giving way can be
helpful. You are always responsible for your own operation, regardless
of what the "other guy" thinks. If his actions make it appear that he
does not understand that you are motoring, it is your duty to inform
him.

I'd suggest that you study up, but operating a vessel legally and
safely also requires critical thinking abilities that you simply don't
have.

BB

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

He may have some clever explanation, but my answer (and other who have agreed)
is correct. If he eased the jib to make it luff, he's reducing VMG for no gain;
if its luffing because he's pinching, then he's maximizing VMG and getting an
easier ride.

BTW, we often don't fly the jib when motorsailing upwind because the major
benefit is provided by the main. Having the jib up just reduces visibility.



"Bart Senior" wrote in message
. net...
Remember the fellow a lazy, smart, sailor!

Bobspirt wrote in message
...
Also, if you have your sails up you can claim ROW over motorboats, and
they aren't smart enough to see it's luffing

No. When you are motorsailing, you are a motorboat. Having your sails
up is meaningless as far as your position in the pecking order if your
engine is running, even if it is in neutral.

BB

BB, come on, get your helmet on and get in the game. He knew that. He
was
saying you could make powerboaters (who generally clear out for a sailboat
no
matter what, if they are paying attention) THINK you were sailing.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

Solution:

Because you are about to shut off the engine!

The hints we Lazy, smart, sailor...

The reason is simple. If you are lazy and smart you don't
want to trim the sail twice. If you are a sailor, you would not
want to leave the engine on.

So, you trim the sail to luff slightly, as you motor. Then
shut off the engine, the boat slows down, the apparent wind
swings slightly aft, and you find the sail is now trimmed
correctly.

You can see how I knew immeditately this fellow was a
good sailor. He was thinking ahead.

It was a tough one.


Bart Senior wrote

Another question inspired by a Dutch sailor. I caught on
to what he was doing, because I was not occupied with
anything else at the time. No one else on board did.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]

While motor sailing, close hauled, you trim your jib so that it is
slightly luffing?

Why would you do this?

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

As I predicted, a "clever" but wrong answer. The jib likely can't be trimmed so
there is no sense in trying; the main however, can be trimmed if its on a
traveler - failure to do that is lazy, but not smart.

BTW, the wording of your original post implied that he actively adjusted the
jib, not the he didn't bother to tighten it when it was appropriate.


"Bart Senior" wrote in message
. net...
Solution:

Because you are about to shut off the engine!

The hints we Lazy, smart, sailor...

The reason is simple. If you are lazy and smart you don't
want to trim the sail twice. If you are a sailor, you would not
want to leave the engine on.

So, you trim the sail to luff slightly, as you motor. Then
shut off the engine, the boat slows down, the apparent wind
swings slightly aft, and you find the sail is now trimmed
correctly.

You can see how I knew immeditately this fellow was a
good sailor. He was thinking ahead.

It was a tough one.


Bart Senior wrote

Another question inspired by a Dutch sailor. I caught on
to what he was doing, because I was not occupied with
anything else at the time. No one else on board did.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]

While motor sailing, close hauled, you trim your jib so that it is
slightly luffing?

Why would you do this?

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

"FamilySailor" wrote:
If the other boat gives way; you can hold your course and not violate any
law. If there is a collision you would be at fault. If there is no collision
how is it against the law? Unless you actually tell the other boat that you
are under sail?

"A. Diesel Vents" wrote:
If you have the sails up and are running the motor as well, you are
supposed to hoist an inverted triangle dayshape to let everyone know
that you are legally a powerboat for navigation purposes.

I don't know anyone who actually does this.

Well, only big boats (over 10 meters LOA IIRC) ar supposed to do this. Small
boats can motorsail with no signal, although under ColRegs they are considered
motor vessels when doing so.

I have seen a number of yachts, for example, the Naval Academy 44s, motorsailing
with the inverted cone hoisted.

I am looking forward to hearing the answer to this puzzler, Bart!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

Just an aside as I'm in this too late. Engine running in neutral doesn't
count. To be shifted in the pecking order down one slot to power boat you
have to 'engage' the engine. The requirement is a vessel 'under power.'

I'm enjoying reading all this and catching up. My answer was a similar
version of Thom's so I'm struck out already!

M.

"Bart Senior" wrote in message
. net...
Remember the fellow a lazy, smart, sailor!

Bobspirt wrote in message
...
Also, if you have your sails up you can claim ROW over motorboats, and
they aren't smart enough to see it's luffing

No. When you are motorsailing, you are a motorboat. Having your sails
up is meaningless as far as your position in the pecking order if your
engine is running, even if it is in neutral.

BB

BB, come on, get your helmet on and get in the game. He knew that. He
was
saying you could make powerboaters (who generally clear out for a
sailboat
no
matter what, if they are paying attention) THINK you were sailing.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

With my de Kerchove 2nd ed. sitting close at hand I found the following:

KNOCKABOUT. 1. A sailing yacht of simple sloop rig consisting of jib and
mainsail. The stay sets up on the stemhead. . . . usually keel boats though
some are centerboarders and could be handled very quickly. The original
knockabout rig was intended for small craft but it has developed and is now,
with some modifiations, used on boats of comparatively largesize, 40 to 100
feet. 2. In the USA applies in a general sense to sailing craft without
bowsprits. thus a fishing schooner so rigged is referred to as a knockabout
schooner.

KNOCKABOUT RIG. A style of rig evolved about 1900 with the object of
abolishing the bowsprit in most small craft. The jib is bent on a stay
which sets up on the stemhead. Used chiefly for yachts and fishing
schooners. Became popular in the New England cod fishing fleet 1905-1910.

No points, I looked it up . . .

M.


"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...


DSK wrote:

Jeff Morris wrote:

Sorry, Bart. I think your Dutch friend was yanking your chain!

No, what Bart described would work.



But here's a question: I've heard the term "knockabout" as a type of
small boat
but never saw a formal definition. This morning I was reading a 1943
edition of
Chapman's - how do you think Charles defined them back then?

IIRC a "knockabout" was a boat with no bowsprit, a bit earlier than 1943
though. For
example a number of fishing schooners, without bowsprits, were described
as
"knockabouts." But that was 1920s and earlier, by 1943 then it probably
meant
something else. There were some early (1930s) marconi rigged one-designs
(again, no
bowsprit, but by this time that was the norm rather than the exception)
called
knockabouts.


Chappelle isn't too clear on that IIRC. But here's a direct
reference: Bill DUnne, "The McManuses of Boston" Woodenboat 112
June 1993.

"...The term came from the small racing sailboats built for
yachtsmen during the 1890s for "knocking about" Massachussets
Bay in all kinds of weather". The term was appropriated by Tom
McManus for his first knockabout Banks schooner Helen B. Thomas,
in which the bow was extended to where the bowsprit would have
reached, thus doing away with the widowmaker while still
maintaining the balance of the rig. About 1901.

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Break Away, Sail Away and putz away
now at http://music.download.com/internetopera

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

wrote in message

Having your sails up is meaningless

thus spoke billy the 'sailor'.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

To keep the sun out of his eyes.

Scotty

"Bart Senior" wrote in message
. net...
Bob,

If youre IQ is 163, this should be easy for you?

Hint: The man was smart and lazy

Bart Senior wrote

Another question inspired by a Dutch sailor. I caught on
to what he was doing, because I was not occupied with
anything else at the time. No one else on board did.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]

While motor sailing, close hauled, you trim your jib so that it is
slightly luffing?

Why would you do this?

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

I agree I could have posed the question better.

However, if you don't like my questions, a smart guy like
you Jeff, is free to post some better ones!

Bring them on!



Bart Senior wrote
Solution:

Because you are about to shut off the engine!

The hints we Lazy, smart, sailor...

The reason is simple. If you are lazy and smart you don't
want to trim the sail twice. If you are a sailor, you would not
want to leave the engine on.

So, you trim the sail to luff slightly, as you motor. Then
shut off the engine, the boat slows down, the apparent wind
swings slightly aft, and you find the sail is now trimmed
correctly.

You can see how I knew immeditately this fellow was a
good sailor. He was thinking ahead.

It was a tough one.


Bart Senior wrote

Another question inspired by a Dutch sailor. I caught on
to what he was doing, because I was not occupied with
anything else at the time. No one else on board did.

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]

While motor sailing, close hauled, you trim your jib so that it is
slightly luffing?

Why would you do this?

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

Sorry, Bart. I think your Dutch friend was yanking your chain!

But here's a question: I've heard the term "knockabout" as a type of small boat
but never saw a formal definition. This morning I was reading a 1943 edition of
Chapman's - how do you think Charles defined them back then?


"Bart Senior" wrote in message
. ..
I agree I could have posed the question better.

However, if you don't like my questions, a smart guy like
you Jeff, is free to post some better ones!

Bring them on!

Impress me with your genius! [15 points]
 

Jeff Morris wrote:

Sorry, Bart. I think your Dutch friend was yanking your chain!

No, what Bart described would work.



But here's a question: I've heard the term "knockabout" as a type of small boat
but never saw a formal definition. This morning I was reading a 1943 edition of
Chapman's - how do you think Charles defined them back then?

IIRC a "knockabout" was a boat with no bowsprit, a bit earlier than 1943 though. For
example a number of fishing schooners, without bowsprits, were described as
"knockabouts." But that was 1920s and earlier, by 1943 then it probably meant
something else. There were some early (1930s) marconi rigged one-designs (again, no
bowsprit, but by this time that was the norm rather than the exception) called
knockabouts.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King