ECHO REBORN
 

Yeh, quite a piece of junk that one. I wish I owned it!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Bart Senior" wrote in message
et...
Any solid glass boat from the 60's will outlast us all.

Is that a Gallant 54? I almost bought one owned by
one of the first women to solo circumnavigate.

It had a good layout for a solo sailor, everything
was up in the pilot house except the head.

Bart

Bobsprit wrote

Any boat from the
mid 60s is AN OLD PIECE OF ****.

Yeah...here's one of those POS boats from the 60's!

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/1/3/5/4/1135416_1.jpg

I bet poor Horvath doesn't even know what it is!

RB

ECHO REBORN
 

Actually, I have two backup plans. One is to just let the main luff.
I did that with the old main coming across the slot in 25 kts. without
any problems... sure it shortens the life of the sail, but it's better than
nothing. The other is that I have a smaller main. It wasn't really designed
for the boat, but when it's on, it's as though I'm reefed.

I only have one set of reef points, but that's totally adequate for the
situation here... small jib, conditions, etc.

But, you're right... same goes with the jib downhaul... always looking
for chafe, etc.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 10:29:48 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
scribbled thusly:

I finally got the single line reefing system straightened out this
Saturday
after class. I followed the Harken model, but used my own scounged
parts. Seems to work fine.

Jon, they work really well but keep a close eye on the whole system,
check it very regularly because a failure leaves you without reefing.
The safe way is to have a second conventional jiffy reefing system set
up on the third or last slab that way not only do you have a backup
but you also have additional security when it's really tough out
there.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

ECHO REBORN
 

I don't like single line reefing. I've found that two line reefing
is the way to go.

The stresses on single line reefing cause failures at the tack
on a Hunter 376 I sailed.

How does the Harken version work?

Jonathan Ganz wrote

I finally got the single line reefing system straightened out this
Saturday
after class. I followed the Harken model, but used my own scounged
parts. Seems to work fine.

ECHO REBORN
 

Here's the PDF. I would normally agree with you, but it seems to be
fine on my boat, which is pretty small.

http://www.harken.com/mainsail/4171slr.pdf

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 03:19:33 GMT, "Bart Senior"
scribbled thusly:

I don't like single line reefing. I've found that two line reefing
is the way to go.

The stresses on single line reefing cause failures at the tack
on a Hunter 376 I sailed.

How does the Harken version work?

Like this
http://www.harken.com/mainsail/reeffeat.php




Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

ECHO REBORN
 

Harkens version has angled leads at the tack. That
would seem to help.

The version I've used pulled straight down at the
tack and put way more tension at the tack than the
clue. The result being a tendency to rip out the
hardware at the tack.


OzOne wrote
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 03:19:33 GMT, "Bart Senior"
scribbled thusly:

I don't like single line reefing. I've found that two line reefing
is the way to go.

The stresses on single line reefing cause failures at the tack
on a Hunter 376 I sailed.

How does the Harken version work?

Like this
http://www.harken.com/mainsail/reeffeat.php

ECHO REBORN
 

OzOne wrote:
We've fitted it to 47' boats without any problems but all the lines
are checked weekly.

I'm with Bart, I think two line reefing is better in some ways, but can
create a hassle with lines. The issue I have with single line reefing is
that it takes up luff tension first and it can be difficult to get the
clew cringle set out & down hard enough.

Good idea to check the lines often. Same for roller furling. BTW do you
reeve a back up line through the clew cringle once the reef is made up?
I have seen this in lessons but never done it in real life. Conditions
are always unfavorable to hanging on the end of the boom... especially
tucking in that second reef.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

ECHO REBORN
 

OzOne wrote:
We've fitted it to 47' boats without any problems but all the lines
are checked weekly.

I'm with Bart,



Bart, RUN!!!!!


RB

ECHO REBORN
 

One of the considerations that made the single line the right choice
for me was the "yet another line" factor. I take a lot of novice
sailors, and it can get confusing. Hell, it can get confusing for me!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"DSK" wrote in message
...
OzOne wrote:
We've fitted it to 47' boats without any problems but all the lines
are checked weekly.

I'm with Bart, I think two line reefing is better in some ways, but can
create a hassle with lines. The issue I have with single line reefing is
that it takes up luff tension first and it can be difficult to get the
clew cringle set out & down hard enough.

Good idea to check the lines often. Same for roller furling. BTW do you
reeve a back up line through the clew cringle once the reef is made up?
I have seen this in lessons but never done it in real life. Conditions
are always unfavorable to hanging on the end of the boom... especially
tucking in that second reef.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

ECHO REBORN
 

The angled leads seem essential. Otherwise, how would the tension
be right? The clue has an adjustable block, which I guess helps when
you set it up initially, but after that, it's pretty much set. I can't see a
good reason to change it.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Bart Senior" wrote in message
.net...
Harkens version has angled leads at the tack. That
would seem to help.

The version I've used pulled straight down at the
tack and put way more tension at the tack than the
clue. The result being a tendency to rip out the
hardware at the tack.


OzOne wrote
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 03:19:33 GMT, "Bart Senior"
scribbled thusly:

I don't like single line reefing. I've found that two line reefing
is the way to go.

The stresses on single line reefing cause failures at the tack
on a Hunter 376 I sailed.

How does the Harken version work?

Like this
http://www.harken.com/mainsail/reeffeat.php

ECHO REBORN
 

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:19:52 -0400, DSK wrote:


. The issue I have with single line reefing is
that it takes up luff tension first and it can be difficult to get the
clew cringle set out & down hard enough.


Agreed, however if you use a block attached to the clew and tack
grommet, the friction is greatly reduced and the problem of the clew
cringle set is minimized.

ECHO REBORN
 

Yep.. the only real chafe for me is going to be a padeye, which I'm
going to replace with a smoother one.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Marc" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:19:52 -0400, DSK wrote:


. The issue I have with single line reefing is
that it takes up luff tension first and it can be difficult to get the
clew cringle set out & down hard enough.


Agreed, however if you use a block attached to the clew and tack
grommet, the friction is greatly reduced and the problem of the clew
cringle set is minimized.

ECHO REBORN
 

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:11:57 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap:

One of the considerations that made the single line the right choice
for me was the "yet another line" factor. I take a lot of novice
sailors, and it can get confusing. Hell, it can get confusing for me!

Lifelines are confusing for you.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

ECHO REBORN
 

So, what you're saying is that you think lifelines are
something to rely on...

Horass, you've been really sounding like a total fool
lately. I think you need to mellow out a bit. Just because
you "sail" a piece of junk hunter, doesn't necessarily
mean you have to act like a fool all the time.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:11:57 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote this crap:

One of the considerations that made the single line the right choice
for me was the "yet another line" factor. I take a lot of novice
sailors, and it can get confusing. Hell, it can get confusing for me!

Lifelines are confusing for you.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

ECHO REBORN
 

Doug,

A sail-tie through the clue and around the boom--we did that
routinely in San Francisco. It's called an earing. Several times
I found the reef line would come loose on J-24's and the earing
would not keep the foot tight but kept the leech tight enough to
keep sailing temporarily, and save more than a few sails from
flogging.

Bart

DSK wrote

Good idea to check the lines often. Same for roller furling. BTW do you
reeve a back up line through the clew cringle once the reef is made up?
I have seen this in lessons but never done it in real life. Conditions
are always unfavorable to hanging on the end of the boom... especially
tucking in that second reef.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

ECHO REBORN
 

LP claimed: Anyway, I'm scared of Bart!

That's silly. Bart's been posting here for years and is a nice guy.

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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ECHO REBORN
 

Taddy said: Firelighter, Madame V, firelighter.

Firestarter....along with many other powers....

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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ECHO REBORN
 

"katysails" wrote:

BTW, Lady Pilot might switch her allegiance when she sees pics of both you
and your boats....

Oh, my! I was almost to "mark all as read", then I come across this post.
LOL

When did you start playing matchmaker, Katy? Anyway, I'm scared of Bart!
;-) Plus, he gives lashes for not getting the questions he asks right. Not
to mention I don't have any points accumulated...

LP

ECHO REBORN
 

"DSK" wrote:
katysails wrote:
Wow, that was a LOT of work....looks like it was worth it, though...100
pts.
for you.

C'mon, I'd say more like 500 easy.

Bart, Echo is *beautiful*. The colors you chose are great.

I agree! But what were those red marks all over the bottom of the boat
before it was painted? Looks like he drove across Davy Jones locker. ;-)

BTW, Lady Pilot might switch her allegiance when she sees pics of both
you
and your boats....

Mercenary wench?

Hehee. Not since my Ollie North days... ;-)

LP

ECHO REBORN
 

"Bart Senior" wrote:
DSK wrote
Mercenary wench?

Women seem to like a big mast...

So what is it exactly that you are trying to tell us here? hehee

LP

ECHO REBORN
 

"Scott Vernon" wrote:
yes, it was. I wasn't sure how believable it is about blue hulls being
hotter than white ones.

White reflects light and black absorbs light.

Didn't you ever take an art class in school? ;-)

LP

ECHO REBORN
 

"Bart Senior" wrote:

The only time I have felt
hotter was pulling 3.5 negative gees in humid 98 degree weather
in a T-37.

Tweet? Were you the trainer or trainee? If trainee, what did you go on to
fly, C-130's? I used to work at an FBO with a military contract. My job
was to launch and recovery military and civilian aircraft with hand signals,
back in the early '80's. I can remember the tweet, because it was the
loudest of all the aircraft that I parked. It was probably the most fun job
I've ever done. I was more interested in the Harriers and the fighter jets
though.

Last weekend we had the huge Aerospace America airshow here in OKC. They've
been having it on my birthday for over 20 years now. The Blue Angels got
here a day early and buzzed the shingles off my roof! The local TV
newscaster was taken up in #7 by Lt. Otter. He first did around a positive
6 g out of a negative g and the newscaster didn't hook. The second time he
was more prepared and they did a 7.3 g. His 200 pound bodyweight felt like
around 1500 pounds, Maj. Seagraves said.

I thought you could do up to about 6 g's in the T-37?

LP

ECHO REBORN
 

"katysails" wrote:
Bart said:
Last winter I couldn't get a date.

That's weird....you seem like a nice guy...maybe you weren't looking in
the
right places?

What's weird is I just had this conversation a week or so ago with someone
else. It's been my experience that when you are looking for someone, you
must send some sort of bad vibes or something. The most fun I've had is
when I wasn't looking for a date.

Case in point, when a girlfriend and I were younger, we would go to this
club and we seemed to never have anyone ask us to dance, etc. Years later,
we met back in the city for a drink and the same place, but this time we
were both happily married. We couldn't even carry on a conversation without
being interrupted by suitors or the waitress bringing us a drink from some
guy across the room. We both laughed as we left the club together, with
around 20 full drinks still sitting on the table.

LP

ECHO REBORN
 

Lady Pilot wrote:

"Bart Senior" wrote:
DSK wrote
Mercenary wench?

Women seem to like a big mast...

So what is it exactly that you are trying to tell us here? hehee

LP

Why do you seek to know? Are you having a mast year?
--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Break Away, Sail Away and putz away
now at http://music.download.com/internetopera

ECHO REBORN
 

Lady Pilot wrote:

Case in point, when a girlfriend and I were younger, we would go to this
club and we seemed to never have anyone ask us to dance, etc.

Well, perhaps they felt they shouldn't interfere with the course
of true love.

Years later,
we met back in the city for a drink and the same place, but this time we
were both happily married.

See? they must have been right. So, why didn't you marry her
earlier?


--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Break Away, Sail Away and putz away
now at http://music.download.com/internetopera

ECHO REBORN
 

Lady Pilot wrote:

When did you start playing matchmaker, Katy?

Firelighter, Madame V, firelighter.

Anyway, I'm scared of Bart!
;-) Plus, he gives lashes for not getting the questions he asks right. Not
to mention I don't have any points accumulated...

I'm sure you must have a couple of points you could put forward.

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Break Away, Sail Away and putz away
now at http://music.download.com/internetopera

ECHO REBORN
 

I've met Bart. He's a great guy. I'd sail with him any time, and I know
a couple of women he sailed with who had a great time.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katysails" wrote in message
...

LP claimed: Anyway, I'm scared of Bart!

That's silly. Bart's been posting here for years and is a nice guy.

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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ECHO REBORN
 

"Lady Pilot" wrote

When did you start playing matchmaker, Katy? Anyway, I'm scared of Bart!
;-) Plus, he gives lashes for not getting the questions he asks right. Not
to mention I don't have any points accumulated...



you can have my points.

Scotty

ECHO REBORN
 

I'm really good with my knots and rope too!

What, you don't have any points? Drop me some
email, and I've give you a few suggestions.

Bart

Lady Pilot wrote

"katysails" wrote:

BTW, Lady Pilot might switch her allegiance when she sees pics of both
you
and your boats....

Oh, my! I was almost to "mark all as read", then I come across this post.
LOL

When did you start playing matchmaker, Katy? Anyway, I'm scared of Bart!
;-) Plus, he gives lashes for not getting the questions he asks right. Not
to mention I don't have any points accumulated...

LP

ECHO REBORN
 

Fooled you too!

Ha!

Bart

katysails wrote

LP claimed: Anyway, I'm scared of Bart!

That's silly. Bart's been posting here for years and is a nice guy.

ECHO REBORN
 

Theboat had a number of blisters, voids in the laminate. The
flexing of the hull caused the gelcoat to crack and leave
behind star shaped crack which looked crappy.

The repair is to grind out the voids, and all the gelcoat, and
fill the voids with epoxy thicken with an easy to sand filler. I
used various colors to help show where more work was
needed. The early stage was red.

The outside of the boat is done. The inside still needs a bit
of work. Drop me a line, I like mercenary wenches.

Bart

Lady Pilot wrote

I agree! But what were those red marks all over the bottom of the boat
before it was painted?

BTW, Lady Pilot might switch her allegiance when she sees pics of both
you
and your boats....

Mercenary wench?

Hehee. Not since my Ollie North days... ;-)

ECHO REBORN
 

"Lady Pilot" wrote

Case in point, when a girlfriend and I were younger, we would go to this
club and we seemed to never have anyone ask us to dance, etc. Years
later,

after your chest developed.......

we met back in the city for a drink and the same place, but this time we
were both happily married. We couldn't even carry on a conversation
without
being interrupted by suitors or the waitress bringing us a drink from some
guy across the room. We both laughed as we left the club together, with
around 20 full drinks still sitting on the table.

LP

ECHO REBORN
 

I have the biggest mast at the yacht club! Come for a visit and
I'll prove it to you.

Lady Pilot wrote


Women seem to like a big mast...

So what is it exactly that you are trying to tell us here? hehee

ECHO REBORN
 

Actually, I'll correct myself. I saw 2.5 negative G's and 3.5 positive
at the bottom of the loop. I have no idea what the max the bird can do.
I did fall in love with the plane and would buy one if I could afford it.

I was not even a trainee. It was an orientation flight. I bet my
instructor he
couldn't make me puke--thinking I'd get a better ride and that I'd probably
puke anyway. I did and I did. I was not a pilot and did not go on to
fly anything. The Air Force valued my degree to much, and my eye sight
was not perfect. I could have had a back seat in an F-4, in the Marines,
but didn't think my bum knee could handle all the running required.

If I'd gone to the Naval Academy I might have got a waiver for my
eyes. My Dad pulled my application without telling me twice! It was
his dying wish that I go to his and my grandfathers school--Lehigh
University, which I did, and graduated with a BSEE and a commision
in the Air Force instead of the Navy. I would have prefered the Navy,
and the Academy. Looking back I wish I called my congressman and
got switched into the Navy. At the time the Air Force threatened to
make me an enlisted man if I didn't take an officers' commission.

Some people called the T-37 "the screamer". It was loud. Sounds
like you had a fun job! They are cool planes and subsonic is fast
enough for me. Acrobatics are more fun than going fast, just as
manueving a sailboat is more fun that going in the straight line.

My cousin Ron had more fun in the Air Force. He flew F-15s
for many years, married an astronauts duaghter, and later
commanded the Thunderbirds. But then he does not have a mast,
and doesn't know how to sail.

Bart

Lady Pilot wrote

"Bart Senior" wrote:

The only time I have felt
hotter was pulling 3.5 negative gees in humid 98 degree weather
in a T-37.

Tweet? Were you the trainer or trainee? If trainee, what did you go on
to
fly, C-130's? I used to work at an FBO with a military contract. My job
was to launch and recovery military and civilian aircraft with hand
signals,
back in the early '80's. I can remember the tweet, because it was the
loudest of all the aircraft that I parked. It was probably the most fun
job
I've ever done. I was more interested in the Harriers and the fighter
jets
though.

Last weekend we had the huge Aerospace America airshow here in OKC.
They've
been having it on my birthday for over 20 years now. The Blue Angels got
here a day early and buzzed the shingles off my roof! The local TV
newscaster was taken up in #7 by Lt. Otter. He first did around a
positive
6 g out of a negative g and the newscaster didn't hook. The second time
he
was more prepared and they did a 7.3 g. His 200 pound bodyweight felt
like
around 1500 pounds, Maj. Seagraves said.

I thought you could do up to about 6 g's in the T-37?

LP

ECHO REBORN
 

Scott Vernon wrote:

"Lady Pilot" wrote

When did you start playing matchmaker, Katy? Anyway, I'm scared of Bart!
;-) Plus, he gives lashes for not getting the questions he asks right. Not
to mention I don't have any points accumulated...


you can have my points.

Scotty

Would it be a plonking offence to express my surprise that you
have more than one?
--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Break Away, Sail Away and putz away
now at http://music.download.com/internetopera

ECHO REBORN
 

"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...


Scott Vernon wrote:

"Lady Pilot" wrote

When did you start playing matchmaker, Katy? Anyway, I'm scared of
Bart!
;-) Plus, he gives lashes for not getting the questions he asks right.
Not
to mention I don't have any points accumulated...


you can have my points.

Scotty

Would it be a plonking offence to express my surprise that you
have more than one?

No. Why not do a google? You'd be surprised at how many I have.

SV

ECHO REBORN
 

Bart claimed:
Fooled you too!

Ha!

I doubt it....
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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ECHO REBORN
 

"Lady Pilot" wrote
..... Not
to mention I don't have any points accumulated...



Scott Vernon wrote:
you can have my points.

Aha! Finally, proof that chivalry is not dead...

DSK

ECHO REBORN
 

Good point.

DSK wrote

"Lady Pilot" wrote
..... Not
to mention I don't have any points accumulated...

Scott Vernon wrote:
you can have my points.

Aha! Finally, proof that chivalry is not dead...

DSK

ECHO REBORN
 

"Scott Vernon" wrote :
you can have my points.


You are a sweetheart, Elvis...

LP