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How many anchors ?
Do you have?
I have 5... is that to many. 2 Danforths, a fisherman, a folding 4 spade grapple, and a 5 spade non folding grapple. My favorate all around is the folding 4 spade made in Norway, stores easy and sets good enough in most conditions, but will drag some thru mud. A good lunch hook. Id like to have a plow type, but with what I have do you think it would be overkill? Joe |
How many anchors ?
Joe wrote:
2 Danforths, a fisherman, a folding 4 spade grapple, and a 5 spade non folding grapple. I have one - a danforth that looks a bit big for the boat. Haven't tried it because the boat isn't in the water yet. How do you find the danforth for recovering from mud? (Assuming you recover manually...) My favorate all around is the folding 4 spade made in Norway, stores easy and sets good enough in most conditions, but will drag some thru mud. A good lunch hook. I'm thinking of getting a folding grapple that will fit in the little chain/rode locker in the bow, and keeping the danforth in a cockpit locker for use as a kedge. -- Wally www.artbywally.com www.wally.myby.co.uk |
How many anchors ?
I have two Danforths and I just picked up a Bruce anchor, which I plan to try out this Friday. RB |
How many anchors ?
Joe wrote:
Do you have? I have 5... is that to many. Depends. 2 Danforths, a fisherman, a folding 4 spade grapple, and a 5 spade non folding grapple. What's a "spade grapple"? I'm familiar with a grapnel. We have small ones (a 2# and a 6#) for dinghies. IMHO best for conversation pieces, but they work to hold a small boat to the beach. On the cruising boat we carry a plow, a Danforth, and a Bruce. The plow is the working anchor. I also carry cinderblocks to use as a kellet if we ever need it. Lightnings are mandated to carry an 8# anchor and 100' of line, so I have a 7.99# baby Danforth attached to 100' of parachute cord. Hey Oz do Etchells have to carry an anchor? You don't have an anchor that's good for grass or loose mud. The Danforth is sort of OK in mud but won't bite in grass at all. My favorate all around is the folding 4 spade made in Norway, stores easy and sets good enough in most conditions, but will drag some thru mud. A good lunch hook. Id like to have a plow type, but with what I have do you think it would be overkill? No, but I'd get a Bruce instead. It's as good as a plow for the things that the plow is good for (grass, loose mud, or hard sand) and better for a lot of other things. I'd also like to check out the Bulwagga. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
How many anchors ?
"Joe" wrote in message
om... Do you have? 4, all Danforths. SV |
How many anchors ?
DSK wrote in message ...
Joe wrote: Do you have? I have 5... is that to many. Depends. 2 Danforths, a fisherman, a folding 4 spade grapple, and a 5 spade non folding grapple. What's a "spade grapple"? Looks like a grapple but on the end is plates like look like the spade you see in a deck of cards, Thats my mud hook, digs itself under the mud I'm familiar with a grapnel. We have small ones (a 2# and a 6#) for dinghies. IMHO best for conversation pieces, but they work to hold a small boat to the beach. On the cruising boat we carry a plow, a Danforth, and a Bruce. The plow is the working anchor. I also carry cinderblocks to use as a kellet if we ever need it. Lightnings are mandated to carry an 8# anchor and 100' of line, so I have a 7.99# baby Danforth attached to 100' of parachute cord. Hey Oz do Etchells have to carry an anchor? You don't have an anchor that's good for grass or loose mud. The Danforth is sort of OK in mud but won't bite in grass at all. My favorate all around is the folding 4 spade made in Norway, stores easy and sets good enough in most conditions, but will drag some thru mud. A good lunch hook. Id like to have a plow type, but with what I have do you think it would be overkill? No, but I'd get a Bruce instead. It's as good as a plow for the things that the plow is good for (grass, loose mud, or hard sand) and better for a lot of other things. I'd also like to check out the Bulwagga. Will Do Joe Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
How many anchors ?
"Wally" wrote in message ...
Joe wrote: 2 Danforths, a fisherman, a folding 4 spade grapple, and a 5 spade non folding grapple. I have one - a danforth that looks a bit big for the boat. Haven't tried it because the boat isn't in the water yet. How do you find the danforth for recovering from mud? (Assuming you recover manually...) I have a US NAVY no. 1 Windless/winch it's a rachet type winch made in 1901. Breaking out of the mud when it bites it a bit hard, mud always covers it, all we have in the bay here is mud, mud and oyster reefs, and mud & grass. Lots of mud, In a hard blow in deep mud, it's easy to put skid marks across the bottom. Usually Ill pull it up to the water line than was it a mile or so before hauling it into the hawse pipe, just to help get rid of some of the freakin mud. I hate mud BTW, always makes a mess. My favorate all around is the folding 4 spade made in Norway, stores easy and sets good enough in most conditions, but will drag some thru mud. A good lunch hook. I'm thinking of getting a folding grapple that will fit in the little chain/rode locker in the bow, and keeping the danforth in a cockpit locker for use as a kedge. Ive had a few nights walking across the oyster reef carrying a big ass danforth. I keep my folding grappel in the lazzerte, on deck and ready to deploy in the channels. It's the emergency brake. Joe |
How many anchors ?
Depends on your cruising ground and boat. Danforths are great
for mud.. never had a problem either sticking or retrieving. I only have one, but mine is a daysailer. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Joe" wrote in message om... Do you have? I have 5... is that to many. 2 Danforths, a fisherman, a folding 4 spade grapple, and a 5 spade non folding grapple. My favorate all around is the folding 4 spade made in Norway, stores easy and sets good enough in most conditions, but will drag some thru mud. A good lunch hook. Id like to have a plow type, but with what I have do you think it would be overkill? Joe |
How many anchors ?
We have two...both Danforth's....if we ever plan a cruise up to the North
Channel, we'll have to get something that will hold in rocks... -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
How many anchors ?
How do you find the danforth for
recovering from mud? We recover from mud from both White Lake and Muskegon Lake...no problem..... -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
How many anchors ?
OzOne wrote: On 9 Jun 2004 15:49:04 -0700, (Joe) scribbled thusly: I hate mud BTW, always makes a mess. Easy fix, Set up a salt water pump and a short hose stored in the chain locker. Easier fix, remove your bow. http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/LKsail.htm and search for "spa bath" -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Faint echoes, sometimes inaudible, of the newsgroup's glorious past are downloadable at http://music.download.com/internetopera |
How many anchors ?
Do you have?
4, all Danforths. And with Scotti Potty's boat that makes 5! RB |
How many anchors ?
I have 1 Fortress FX-11.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
How many anchors ?
I have 1 Fortress FX-11.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" To tie up to piers? Strange! You think that's strange? He also has a big Avon Dinghy that he NEVER uses! RB |
How many anchors ?
To tie up to piers? Strange!
No, to do committee boat once in a while. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
How many anchors ?
"Joe" wrote in message m... I keep my folding grappel in the lazzerte, on deck and ready to deploy in the channels. It's the emergency brake. If you obeyed the Coll Regs, then you shouldn't need an " emergency" brake!! Regards Donal -- |
How many anchors ?
That's just plain dumb, Donut.
"Donal" wrote If you obeyed the Coll Regs, then you shouldn't need an " emergency" brake!! Regards Donal -- |
How many anchors ?
Scotty Potty wrote...
"I'm as dumb as a plain donut." Agreed! RB |
How many anchors ?
"Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... "Donal" wrote If you obeyed the Coll Regs, then you shouldn't need an " emergency" brake!! That's just plain dumb, Donut. How many times have you deployed an anchor as the result of an emergency? I've never been in a situation where the anchor could have averted a difficult situation. The closest that I came was on a friend's boat when the engine overheated in Portsmouth Harbour. We had the main up in a couple of seconds. If we had deployed the anchor, we would have become a hazard to other boats. Regards Donal -- |
How many anchors ?
"Donal" wrote If you obeyed the Coll Regs, then you shouldn't need an " emergency" brake!! That's just plain dumb, Donut. How many times have you deployed an anchor as the result of an emergency? Me? never, but we were talking about Joe. I've never been in a situation where the anchor could have averted a difficult situation. I'm glad for you. Really. But that doesn't mean it won't happen. Do you know what the Boy Scout motto is? The closest that I came was on a friend's boat when the engine overheated in Portsmouth Harbour. We had the main up in a couple of seconds. What if there hadn't been any wind? with strong cross current? What if you were like bob**** and didn't know how to sail? If we had deployed the anchor, we would have become a hazard to other boats. more so than normal? Scotty Regards Donal -- |
How many anchors ?
Over the years, I've had a number of unexpected anchoring opportunities. Once
was maneuvering under power very close to shore and catching a line in the prop. Another time I had an engine overheat when the rig was half dismantled. This taught me to always have an anchor ready, especially when launching a boat and then driving it to a different marina. When doing dinghy rescue work I used an anchor on occasion when righting a boat or pulling someone out with a lee shore, thought this was part of the normal routine, not really an "emergency." "Donal" wrote in message ... "Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... "Donal" wrote If you obeyed the Coll Regs, then you shouldn't need an " emergency" brake!! That's just plain dumb, Donut. How many times have you deployed an anchor as the result of an emergency? I've never been in a situation where the anchor could have averted a difficult situation. The closest that I came was on a friend's boat when the engine overheated in Portsmouth Harbour. We had the main up in a couple of seconds. If we had deployed the anchor, we would have become a hazard to other boats. Regards Donal -- |
How many anchors ?
See, Donut? This is from a real sailor.
SV "Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... Over the years, I've had a number of unexpected anchoring opportunities. Once was maneuvering under power very close to shore and catching a line in the prop. Another time I had an engine overheat when the rig was half dismantled. This taught me to always have an anchor ready, especially when launching a boat and then driving it to a different marina. When doing dinghy rescue work I used an anchor on occasion when righting a boat or pulling someone out with a lee shore, thought this was part of the normal routine, not really an "emergency." "Donal" wrote in message ... "Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... "Donal" wrote If you obeyed the Coll Regs, then you shouldn't need an " emergency" brake!! That's just plain dumb, Donut. How many times have you deployed an anchor as the result of an emergency? I've never been in a situation where the anchor could have averted a difficult situation. The closest that I came was on a friend's boat when the engine overheated in Portsmouth Harbour. We had the main up in a couple of seconds. If we had deployed the anchor, we would have become a hazard to other boats. Regards Donal -- |
How many anchors ?
Depends on the size of the boat don't it??
I have 4.... 2 CQRs 26 pounders, 2 Danforths ... one of which is a 50 pounder. CM "Joe" wrote in message om... | Do you have? | | I have 5... is that to many. | | 2 Danforths, a fisherman, a folding 4 spade grapple, and a 5 spade non | folding grapple. | | My favorate all around is the folding 4 spade made in Norway, stores | easy and sets good enough in most conditions, but will drag some thru | mud. A good lunch hook. | | Id like to have a plow type, but with what I have do you think it | would be overkill? | | Joe |
How many anchors ?
Scott Vernon wrote: See, Donut? This is from a real sailor. oops... here I was thinking I was browsing alt.sailing.asa but it must be rec.boats.cruising despite what the headrers are saying. Ah well, that's wht happens with an obsolete newsreader. Guess I'd better log off and try again. -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Faint echoes, sometimes inaudible, of the newsgroup's glorious past are downloadable at http://music.download.com/internetopera |
How many anchors ?
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How many anchors ?
"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message | I have 1 Fortress FX-11. Big, showy. light weight and with no substance...... they say a sailor resembles their anchor choices. Tell me it ain't so Loco.... Bwahahahahahahahahaaa!!!! CM |
How many anchors ?
"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message ... Scott Vernon wrote: See, Donut? This is from a real sailor. oops... here I was thinking I was browsing alt.sailing.asa but it must be rec.boats.cruising despite what the headrers are saying. Ah well, that's wht happens with an obsolete newsreader. Guess I'd better log off and try again. Fooled by Scotty, eh???? I don't think that you should waste your time by trying again! Faint echoes, sometimes inaudible, of the newsgroup's glorious past are downloadable at http://music.download.com/internetopera Cruel...... Regards Donal -- |
How many anchors ?
Big, showy. light weight and with no substance...... they say a sailor
resembles their anchor choices. Just what is your problem mooron? Lookin for trouble? The Fortress is a lightweight. Exactly what I want in my anchor locker to reduce pitching. And ......... It's never failed to hold the boat. If you don't think it's a quality product then you don't know anything about it. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
How many anchors ?
2 Danforths. 1 forward, 1 aft depending on where I am. Sometimes both
forward in a strong breeze and I want to close both eyes to sleep. Scout "Joe" wrote in message m... DSK wrote in message ... Joe wrote: Do you have? I have 5... is that to many. Depends. 2 Danforths, a fisherman, a folding 4 spade grapple, and a 5 spade non folding grapple. What's a "spade grapple"? Looks like a grapple but on the end is plates like look like the spade you see in a deck of cards, Thats my mud hook, digs itself under the mud I'm familiar with a grapnel. We have small ones (a 2# and a 6#) for dinghies. IMHO best for conversation pieces, but they work to hold a small boat to the beach. On the cruising boat we carry a plow, a Danforth, and a Bruce. The plow is the working anchor. I also carry cinderblocks to use as a kellet if we ever need it. Lightnings are mandated to carry an 8# anchor and 100' of line, so I have a 7.99# baby Danforth attached to 100' of parachute cord. Hey Oz do Etchells have to carry an anchor? You don't have an anchor that's good for grass or loose mud. The Danforth is sort of OK in mud but won't bite in grass at all. My favorate all around is the folding 4 spade made in Norway, stores easy and sets good enough in most conditions, but will drag some thru mud. A good lunch hook. Id like to have a plow type, but with what I have do you think it would be overkill? No, but I'd get a Bruce instead. It's as good as a plow for the things that the plow is good for (grass, loose mud, or hard sand) and better for a lot of other things. I'd also like to check out the Bulwagga. Will Do Joe Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
How many anchors ?
|
How many anchors ?
No, not quite. I've used Fortress as my second anchor for 12 years, on two
boats. Although they have much in common with Danforths, there are significant differences. The Fortress has a much higher area to weight which means that it can "sail" like a kite in a strong current. I experimented without no or little chain and found that I couldn't even get it to the bottom in a current with no chain. On the other hand, you can use this ability to glide the Fortress out away from the boat, by pointing the flukes toward the boat as you lower it. The light weight, (if you use minimal chain) allow you to "fish" for the bottom, especially in sand or hard mud, since you can feel the flukes as dig in. Perhaps I've practiced this more with a Fortress, but with a regular Danforth I usually can't feel it until it fully grabs. I haven't had the problem of skipping on a hard bottom - I've had just the opposite experience: In a few hard places where the Delta won't bite, the Fortress grabs quickly. (BTW, the solution for the Delta is to let it sit for 10 minutes - it will slowly dig in if you give it a chance. This is an advantage over the CQR, which will sometimes land on its side or up-side-down, and never dig in.) The lighter Fortress allows you to go up a size, and thus use a "full size" anchor with the ease of a lunch hook. This is why I like it as a second anchor - having set the primary, its very easy to position it (especially when your boat has two bows!). Its also nice to be able to row it out. Another benefit - the Fortress has a 45 degree "mud setting." We switched to that in the Chesapeake where our Delta would sometimes do the "slow drag" in soft mud. Now the downside: The light weight of the flukes means that a clump of mud can get caught between them and prevent the flukes from dropping down. While this has only happened to me once with the larger FX-23, the smaller Fortress I used on my last boat did it several times. On two occasions, I had set firmly, let out scope, and an hour later was drifting completely free. For this reason, I never trust a Fortress in an "unattended" situation in anything other than soft mud. I've never had this problem when using it as a second anchor, because in this situation is doesn't seem to release the same way in a wind shift. For the record: My primary is a Delta 35 with 50 feet of 5/16 chain spliced to 9/16 NE 3-strand. The secondary is a Fortress FX23 with about 15 feet of chain. I carry a Danforth style 20 pound anchor as a spare, plus 2 spare rodes, and a 8 pound dinghy anchor. "DSK" wrote in message . .. wrote: ... Fortresses, *IF* they can get a bite, will hold very well. The problem is they are so light that they skip over the surface of all but very soft mud. BittyBill, you don't know WTF you're talking about. A Fortress works just like any Danforth. DSK |
How many anchors ?
My father's boat (a big cabin cruiser) always had danforths. When he wanted
some quiet time he would tell me to "go check the anchor," which was really a challenge-type game to me. I'd jump in, grab the line and pull myself down to the anchor to see how it "looked." Sometimes I'd go down and dig it out and clean the mud off, when we were ready to get underway. They always dug deep in sand and mud, as I recall. This was the same guy who would tell me if I wanted beach time to swim ashore, and he'd make it easy for me by getting within a mile of long beach island. I guess he knew what he was doing because I got good enough at swimming to get a lifeguard cert at 15. He was a tough old sailor (the U.S.N. kind), I wonder if they still make dads like him. Scout "Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... No, not quite. I've used Fortress as my second anchor for 12 years, on two boats. Although they have much in common with Danforths, there are significant differences. The Fortress has a much higher area to weight which means that it can "sail" like a kite in a strong current. I experimented without no or little chain and found that I couldn't even get it to the bottom in a current with no chain. On the other hand, you can use this ability to glide the Fortress out away from the boat, by pointing the flukes toward the boat as you lower it. The light weight, (if you use minimal chain) allow you to "fish" for the bottom, especially in sand or hard mud, since you can feel the flukes as dig in. Perhaps I've practiced this more with a Fortress, but with a regular Danforth I usually can't feel it until it fully grabs. I haven't had the problem of skipping on a hard bottom - I've had just the opposite experience: In a few hard places where the Delta won't bite, the Fortress grabs quickly. (BTW, the solution for the Delta is to let it sit for 10 minutes - it will slowly dig in if you give it a chance. This is an advantage over the CQR, which will sometimes land on its side or up-side-down, and never dig in.) The lighter Fortress allows you to go up a size, and thus use a "full size" anchor with the ease of a lunch hook. This is why I like it as a second anchor - having set the primary, its very easy to position it (especially when your boat has two bows!). Its also nice to be able to row it out. Another benefit - the Fortress has a 45 degree "mud setting." We switched to that in the Chesapeake where our Delta would sometimes do the "slow drag" in soft mud. Now the downside: The light weight of the flukes means that a clump of mud can get caught between them and prevent the flukes from dropping down. While this has only happened to me once with the larger FX-23, the smaller Fortress I used on my last boat did it several times. On two occasions, I had set firmly, let out scope, and an hour later was drifting completely free. For this reason, I never trust a Fortress in an "unattended" situation in anything other than soft mud. I've never had this problem when using it as a second anchor, because in this situation is doesn't seem to release the same way in a wind shift. For the record: My primary is a Delta 35 with 50 feet of 5/16 chain spliced to 9/16 NE 3-strand. The secondary is a Fortress FX23 with about 15 feet of chain. I carry a Danforth style 20 pound anchor as a spare, plus 2 spare rodes, and a 8 pound dinghy anchor. "DSK" wrote in message . .. wrote: ... Fortresses, *IF* they can get a bite, will hold very well. The problem is they are so light that they skip over the surface of all but very soft mud. BittyBill, you don't know WTF you're talking about. A Fortress works just like any Danforth. DSK |
How many anchors ?
You only use it to anchor occasionally
in one general spot, when serving as a committee boat for a few hours, while you are awake and watching. The cheapest piece of crap anchor in the world would do as well for that use. I was told by anyone and everyone that I asked that the Fortress was not a good anchor due to it's weight. We used the Bruce twice this weekend and it worked really well, though there wasn't much weather to test it. Not surprising that Loco ends up with the anchor that also has the biggest ads. Same way he picked his car! RB |
How many anchors ?
Because of its weight, the Fortress is a "different" anchor. It is not good as
a primary, overnight anchor, especially if you use bottoms other than soft mud. However, if you mostly race and daysail, and just need an anchor for occasional use, the Fortress is an excellent choice. Also, as I've pointed out before its a great second anchor. The Bruce, on the other hand, relies largely on weight, so its not a great choice unless you have a windlass or a foredeck slave. You should have a Bruce 44, but you could get the same holding (and better setting) with a Delta 35. As I've mentioned in previous dissertations, I favor the lightweight, high tech approach because I want an anchor I don't mind hauling and resetting if the original set doesn't work out. If you only anchor a few times a year this makes little difference, but I've found that about a third of the time I'd rather be "over there" than "here" and I don't want an anchor that's too heavy changing my mind. "Bobsprit" wrote in message ... You only use it to anchor occasionally in one general spot, when serving as a committee boat for a few hours, while you are awake and watching. The cheapest piece of crap anchor in the world would do as well for that use. I was told by anyone and everyone that I asked that the Fortress was not a good anchor due to it's weight. We used the Bruce twice this weekend and it worked really well, though there wasn't much weather to test it. Not surprising that Loco ends up with the anchor that also has the biggest ads. Same way he picked his car! RB |
How many anchors ?
One plough (best bower) one fisherman/admiralty (Kedge). Both
rigged ready. CHain rode on the best bower (or at least for the depths I'm anchoring in), 10m chain on the kedge Joe wrote: Do you have? I have 5... is that to many. 2 Danforths, a fisherman, a folding 4 spade grapple, and a 5 spade non folding grapple. My favorate all around is the folding 4 spade made in Norway, stores easy and sets good enough in most conditions, but will drag some thru mud. A good lunch hook. Id like to have a plow type, but with what I have do you think it would be overkill? Joe -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Faint echoes, sometimes inaudible, of the newsgroup's glorious past are downloadable at http://music.download.com/internetopera |
How many anchors ?
It's very well made, but it's too light. The measure of quality in an
anchor is how well it holds the boat. Fortresses, *IF* they can get a bite, will hold very well. The problem is they are so light that they skip over the surface of all but very soft mud. By your own admission, you have never trusted it to hold your boat overnight in a strange harbor. You only use it to anchor occasionally in one general spot, when serving as a committee boat for a few hours, while you are awake and watching. The cheapest piece of crap anchor in the world would do as well for that use. Well now we have another guy trying to play Boobsprit & mooron the dimwits. That skipping crap is just that - crap. It's an urban myth. I've never experienced that problem. I would also suspect that if this skipping over mud story was started by a real user of the anchor they probably bought their anchor used and they didn't have the optional mud palms attached which Fortress includes with every anchor. As far as "not trusting" the Fortress I never said that. As far as only anchoring in one spot I never said that either. Back to the drawing board. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
How many anchors ?
You are wrong, as usual. If you were right, why would someone spend
all that extra money on something that works "just like a danforth"? Because it's lighter, it dissasembles, it's better looking and it's a quality product. Fact is, people buy them for the same reason they buy pellets that are supposed to increase gas mileage. Nice try. Cheap people buy that stuff. The same people who buy from the J.C. Whitney catalog. Upscale people buy the Fortress over the Danforth. You probably own a Mini Supercharger. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
How many anchors ?
The Fortress has a much higher area to weight which means that it can
"sail" like a kite in a strong current. I experimented without no or little chain and found that I couldn't even get it to the bottom in a current with no chain. I guess this is another way the myth started. Who uses any anchor WITHOUT a chain? S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
How many anchors ?
Not surprising that Loco ends up with the anchor that also has the
biggest ads. Same way he picked his car! LOL........................ That's a laugh and you sure make yourself look bad again. Lincoln does very little advertising on that car. Unlike the teenybooper car you drive which is advertised everywhere. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
How many anchors ?
Not surprising that Loco ends up with the anchor that also has
the biggest ads. Same way he picked his car! Oh, I forgot to mention that I love the new Subaru ads that state "We know the little boy that's hiding inside the man" I thought .......... how fitting in the case of the Boobster. ROFLMAO!!! S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
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