| Page 2 of 2 | 1 | 2 |
|
|
How many anchors ?
|
How many anchors ?
it's better looking
Yeah, well there you have it, folks! I think I'll trade in my chrome danforth for one of those stylish fortress models! Bwahahahahahaha! RB |
How many anchors ?
"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
... The Fortress has a much higher area to weight which means that it can "sail" like a kite in a strong current. I experimented without no or little chain and found that I couldn't even get it to the bottom in a current with no chain. I guess this is another way the myth started. Not a myth - I actually spent a few afternoons with a friend playing with a Fortress FX16 (10 pounds) while anchored in a one knot (maybe more? I forget!) current. The Fortress, without a chain, would hover about 5 feet below the surface. Six feet of chain was enough to take it down, but I ended up using 8 or 10 feet with it. My friend is a liveaboard who spends a majority of his time at anchor. Some years ago he was befriended by an engineer from one of the major anchor companies and they gave him various prototype anchors for evaluation, plus a lot of inside info. Cruising with him was a bit of an eye-opener! One thing research had shown was that the anchor chain would inhibit setting in thick and sticky mud. Further experiments using wire instead of chain as a leader worked initially, but the wire would be severely weakened by dragging through mud - not ideal! However, this same concept showed that the shank should be as thin as possible and even beveled to slice through mud. Summarily, the stock (the bar at the bottom of a Danforth) inhibits digging into mud, and serves no useful purpose. Unfortunately, it just doesn't "look right" to go without a stock. I cut about 6 inches off of mine, to make it easier to handle and set. It is a bit of a myth that chain is absolutely needed on a rode. The primary use is abrasion resistance, the secondary is to reduce the amount of scope needed. Neither of these is particularly important when anchoring for lunch on a mud bottom. For heavy weather its nice to have some serious chain on the bottom isolate the anchor from some of the motion, but again, not a major concern for a lunch hook. Earl Hinz recommends an amount of leader equal in weight to the anchor, and advises using the "full weight equivilant" with aluminum anchors. However, this is for a primary, or a "working" anchor, for a lunch hook this is not needed. (Hinz gives no reason for his choice, other than it seems reasonable.) Who uses any anchor WITHOUT a chain? Actually, I'll bet a majority of those anchoring for a short time use no chain. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
How many anchors ?
|
How many anchors ?
Who uses any anchor WITHOUT a
chain? Actually, I'll bet a majority of those anchoring for a short time use no chain. I have a 150' with a 13 lb danforth that works fine with no chain, but it's not the primary. RB |
How many anchors ?
The Fortress, without a chain, would hover about 5 feet below the
surface. Six feet of chain was enough to take it down, but I ended up using 8 or 10 feet with it. I think Fortress states in their instruction sheet that you should use chain. I think every manufacture states that you should use chain. I think every anchor assembly article I ever read states to use chain. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
How many anchors ?
I have a 150' with a 13 lb danforth that works fine with no chain, but
it's not the primary. Nobody cares what YOU do because they know that You don't know anything about boats. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
How many anchors ?
Yeah, well there you have it, folks! I think I'll trade in my chrome
danforth for one of those stylish fortress models! No don't do that. As I stated "looks" were only 25% of the reason to have one. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
How many anchors ?
Except you.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Horvath" wrote in message ... On 13 Jun 2004 22:39:08 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote this crap: it's better looking Yeah, well there you have it, folks! I think I'll trade in my chrome danforth for one of those stylish fortress models! It won't get you any chicks. Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now! |
How many anchors ?
As I stated "looks" were only 25% of the reason to have one.
Okay, now get this folks...Loco buys his anchor and it's ability to work properly is 75% of his criteria for choice!!!!!! Holy Cow!!!! Sure, Loco. You know about boats!!!! Bwahahahahahahahaha! RB |
How many anchors ?
Actually, the Fortress site recommends six feet of chain. If you tried deploy
that while moving, or while holding station in a strong current, it might not get to the bottom. They don't specify size, so if you used 6 feet of 3/16 chain, you've only added 2.5 pounds, not enough to take it down in a current. Its true that most any cruising manual will advise chain, but they are invariably talking about "working" or "storm" anchors, not lunch hooks or mud hooks. For instance, you wouldn't want chain on one of these: http://www.flyfishusa.com/pontoon/po...or/anchor.html I'm not knocking the Fortress; I've used one for a dozen years and strongly recommend them. Also, I'm not saying you shouldn't use chain, although I think some people use too much. I'm only saying its important to understand how different anchors work in different situations, and to use them accordingly. "SAIL LOCO" wrote in message ... The Fortress, without a chain, would hover about 5 feet below the surface. Six feet of chain was enough to take it down, but I ended up using 8 or 10 feet with it. I think Fortress states in their instruction sheet that you should use chain. I think every manufacture states that you should use chain. I think every anchor assembly article I ever read states to use chain. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
How many anchors ?
I think
some people use too much. I'm only saying its important to understand how different anchors work in different situations, and to use them accordingly. But...jeff, do you agree with Loco's decision to base 25% of his anchor choice on it's looks? RB |
How many anchors ?
Actually, he was probably required to carry an anchor for racing, and the
Fortress FX11 is the lightest that could be considered "suitable" for a 30 footer. Its OK as a minimal lunch hook, and Loco has admitted to no further ambition. Sounds like a good match. "Bobsprit" wrote in message ... I think some people use too much. I'm only saying its important to understand how different anchors work in different situations, and to use them accordingly. But...jeff, do you agree with Loco's decision to base 25% of his anchor choice on it's looks? RB |
How many anchors ?
Actually, he was probably required to carry an anchor for racing, and the
Fortress FX11 is the lightest that could be considered "suitable" for a 30 footer. Its OK as a minimal lunch hook, and Loco has admitted to no further ambition. Sounds like a good match. Agreed, but if you look back, you'll note that Loco says 25% of the reason for the Fortress was looks. RB |
How many anchors ?
Ssssssssssssssssssss..what's that sound? Oh, it's bob**** deflating.
Loco ----- 100 boob**** - 0 "Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... Actually, he was probably required to carry an anchor for racing, and the Fortress FX11 is the lightest that could be considered "suitable" for a 30 footer. Its OK as a minimal lunch hook, and Loco has admitted to no further ambition. Sounds like a good match. "Bobsprit" wrote in message ... I think some people use too much. I'm only saying its important to understand how different anchors work in different situations, and to use them accordingly. But...jeff, do you agree with Loco's decision to base 25% of his anchor choice on it's looks? RB |
How many anchors ?
Scotty wrote:
Loco ----- 25% boob**** - 100. Bwahahahahahahaha! RB |
How many anchors ?
I'm only saying its important to understand how
different anchors work in different situations, and to use them accordingly. That's correct and for my situation a Fortress w/chain works just fine and it's no weight in the anchor locker. If I were crossing the Atlantic going to the Med I think I'd have some other options on the boat to use in other situations. But I ain't doing that. Having 3 anchors on board my boat that's "cruising" the Chesapeake is sort of like having one of those wind vane steering contraptions hanging on the stern on the many boats that I see that never go anywhere. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
How many anchors ?
Actually, he was probably required to carry an anchor for racing, and the
Fortress FX11 is the lightest that could be considered "suitable" for a 30 footer. Its OK as a minimal lunch hook, and Loco has admitted to no further ambition. Sounds like a good match. Exactly! However the Fortress FX-11 is more than a lunch hook for a 30 footer. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
How many anchors ?
Exactly! However the Fortress FX-11 is more than a lunch hook for a 30
footer. yes, it's also a FASHION STATEMENT! RB |
How many anchors ?
That's correct and for my situation a Fortress w/chain works just fine and
it's no weight in the anchor locker. WAIT ONE SECOND!!! If it's in the locker, why did you make 25% of your choice based on it's looks??!!!! RB |
How many anchors ?
"Bobsprit" wrote
WAIT ONE SECOND!!! If it's in the locker, why did you make 25% of your choice based on it's looks??!!!! for the same reason you comb your hair (what little there is left of it) but stay in the closet. SV |
How many anchors ?
choice
based on it's looks??!!!! for the same reason you comb your hair (what little there is left of it) but stay in the closet. Are you calling poor Loco Gay? Scotty Potti!!!! Behave yourself. RB |
How many anchors ?
Scott Vernon wrote:
for the same reason you comb your hair (what little there is left of it) but stay in the closet. Maybe it's also for the same reason why Boobsie sprays himself with deodorant but hasn't taken a bath for months... DSK |
How many anchors ?
"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
... Actually, he was probably required to carry an anchor for racing, and the Fortress FX11 is the lightest that could be considered "suitable" for a 30 footer. Its OK as a minimal lunch hook, and Loco has admitted to no further ambition. Sounds like a good match. Exactly! However the Fortress FX-11 is more than a lunch hook for a 30 footer. Yes, it might also be good for brunch. An FX11 is an absolute minimal anchor for a 30 footer. To claim that's all that's needed for cruising is foolish. First of all, the best holding power Fortress claims is 900 pounds. However, the wind drag on a 30 foot sailboat is 700 pounds in 30 knots. This number goes up as the square of wind speed, so even if particular boat has a smaller profile, it easy to see that the FX11 would likely drag in any serious wind. Secondly, although the Fortress has many virtues, resetting on wind or current changes is not one of them. This is especially true for the small sizes - I went from a FX16 to a FX23 because of this problem. Add this to the issue of deploying such a light anchor in a current or from a moving boat and it really doesn't make it as a primary. Finally, the concept of cruising with only one anchor is silly. I've used two anchors numerous times in a variety of situations - I can't imagine traveling with only one. A third is just a backup - I've had to leave one behind once, and loaned one another time, so its nice to know I have one to spare. (Also, if I'm ever caught out in "the big one" I can set three anchors - it hasn't happened yet!) I will grant you one thing - the Chesapeake is about as benign and environment as you can get. The soft mud is ubiquitous, and there is no such thing as a rocky lee shore. You may be able to get away with such a naive approach there, but you wouldn't last a weekend in Maine. |
How many anchors ?
An FX11 is an absolute minimal anchor for a 30 footer. To claim that's all
that's needed for cruising is foolish. Minimal for what? Fortress states the FX-11 is good for boats up to 32 feet. As far as stating "that's all that's needed for cruising is foolish" please go back and reread my posts. I'm an admited daysailor, racer and sometime overnighter who spends those few nights at a marina. I'm not planing on anchoring off Tahiti in a typhoon. I'm sure the Fortress would hold in the typical Chesapeake thunderstorm however and that's all I need. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
How many anchors ?
You may be able to get away with such a naive approach there,
but you wouldn't last a weekend in Maine. Jeff, I really don't understand the continuing know it all comments. The purchase of the Fortress for use on my boat was not a naive decision. Maybe you can't read but I explained in my first post the reason for the selection. If you want to keep talking about your need for 3 anchors that's fine but suppose I said that was a candy ass choice made by a candy ass worry wort. If you want to sail around with all that weight in the ends of your boat then more power to you. It fits your needs. It doesn't fit mine. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
How many anchors ?
"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
... An FX11 is an absolute minimal anchor for a 30 footer. To claim that's all that's needed for cruising is foolish. Minimal for what? Fortress states the FX-11 is good for boats up to 32 feet. Those charts are based on a "working anchor" which is defined by the ABYC as good for winds up to 30 knots, in an ideal situation. Virtually every manual advises going up at least one size from that. In any location more challenging than the Chesapeake, even that is undersized. As far as stating "that's all that's needed for cruising is foolish" please go back and reread my posts. I'm an admited daysailor, racer and sometime overnighter who spends those few nights at a marina. I'm not planing on anchoring off Tahiti in a typhoon. I already admitted that this anchor is a good choice for your needs. You're the one who said its "more than a lunch hook" and implied that cruising with more is silly. You seem to have a problem with those whose horizons are a tad further than yours. I'm sure the Fortress would hold in the typical Chesapeake thunderstorm however and that's all I need. Yes, you would only drag at about 3 knots in Chesapeake t-storm. It would probably be over before you washed up in Crisfield. |
How many anchors ?
Don't tell boob that, maybe with any luck he'll drag himself across the
atlantic. The holding power of the FX-11 in soft mud is listed by Fortress at 540 pounds. BB |
How many anchors ?
Bobsprit wrote:
I have two Danforths and I just picked up a Bruce anchor, which I plan to try out this Friday. We have a Bruce on the Sonata. Only used it once, for a lunch stop, and it worked fine in mud. When I hauled it up, I found that only one prong had actually dug in. It was fairly thick mud - it wouldn't clear by swishing the anchor in the water. -- Wally www.artbywally.com www.wally.myby.co.uk |
How many anchors ?
Joe wrote:
Breaking out of the mud when it bites it a bit hard, mud always covers it, all we have in the bay here is mud, mud and oyster reefs, and mud & grass. Lots of mud, In a hard blow in deep mud, it's easy to put skid marks across the bottom. I thought Danforths were supposed to be good in mud - aren't they supposed to dig in deeper if they start to drag? Usually Ill pull it up to the water line than was it a mile or so before hauling it into the hawse pipe, just to help get rid of some of the freakin mud. Did that to clean a small bruce that was used to hold a race mark (we were on a RIB). Do you drag it off the stern? -- Wally www.artbywally.com www.wally.myby.co.uk |
How many anchors ?
Yes, you would only drag at about 3 knots in Chesapeake t-storm. It would
probably be over before you washed up in Crisfield. LOL..... Funny but maybe you should read the test reports that used tug boats as a test vessel. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
How many anchors ?
The work great in mud.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Wally" wrote in message ... Joe wrote: Breaking out of the mud when it bites it a bit hard, mud always covers it, all we have in the bay here is mud, mud and oyster reefs, and mud & grass. Lots of mud, In a hard blow in deep mud, it's easy to put skid marks across the bottom. I thought Danforths were supposed to be good in mud - aren't they supposed to dig in deeper if they start to drag? Usually Ill pull it up to the water line than was it a mile or so before hauling it into the hawse pipe, just to help get rid of some of the freakin mud. Did that to clean a small bruce that was used to hold a race mark (we were on a RIB). Do you drag it off the stern? -- Wally www.artbywally.com www.wally.myby.co.uk |
How many anchors ?
I've read a lot of the test reports. As you might guess, this is a topic I've
followed a bit. The general conclusion from most of the tests is that if an anchor is well set in a good bottom, it has a lot of holding power. What the test don't tell is how an anchor responds to a foul bottom, or how much it drags before setting, or how much care it needs to set, or how well it resets after its upset. However, it you want to look test results, I haven't found any for the FX-11 because, I suspect, its considered too small for cruisers. However, the USSailing tests used a FX37, and larger Fortresses (It was funded by Nav-X, the manufacturer) were tested. The Fortresses did rather well in sand compared to the others, by still, frequently dragged before achieving the holding power listed on the web site. They did all easily surpass the listed "working load." In the "mud" version of the test, the Fortress also did well, but did not even come close to the web site claims. Note that these test were conducted by Nav-X, with special care taken to make sure they were measuring the actual holding power, as opposed to ease of setting, etc. http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Stud...nchor_test.htm http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Stud...nchor_test.htm In another test, the Fortress failed to set at all: http://www.creativemarine.com/newpro.../absreport.htm But the issue is not how well the larger Fortresses performs in straight line tests. They do damn well most of the time, especially for its weight. That's why I've carried one for a dozen years and recommend them. The issue is the holding power of the 7 pound version. Frankly, its not that high, even according to their own data, which seems to be optimistic. I have no doubt it satisfies your needs, but this is not a good choice for someone that wants to get a good night's sleep on the hook. "SAIL LOCO" wrote in message ... Yes, you would only drag at about 3 knots in Chesapeake t-storm. It would probably be over before you washed up in Crisfield. LOL..... Funny but maybe you should read the test reports that used tug boats as a test vessel. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
How many anchors ?
"Jeff Morris" wrote I will grant you one thing - the Chesapeake is about as benign and environment as you can get. unless a T-storm kicks up, or a hurricane. The soft mud is ubiquitous, and there is no such thing as a rocky lee shore. There are a few. Scotty |
How many anchors ?
Wally wrote:
We have a Bruce on the Sonata. Only used it once, for a lunch stop, and it worked fine in mud. When I hauled it up, I found that only one prong had actually dug in. It was fairly thick mud - it wouldn't clear by swishing the anchor in the water. My experience with the Bruce anchor is that it tends to dig in only proportional to the load. If you didn't take a heavy strain in setting it, it might have only dug in one fluke a little bit. However it seems to take a good bite quickly (unlike plows or Danforths, which you can drag across the bottom for many yards) when a strain comes on the rode. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
How many anchors ?
"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
... I will grant you one thing - the Chesapeake is about as benign and environment as you can get. unless a T-storm kicks up, or a hurricane. The soft mud is ubiquitous, and there is no such thing as a rocky lee shore. There are a few. True, but compared to Maine its a padded cell. |
How many anchors ?
"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
... "Scott Vernon" wrote in message ... I will grant you one thing - the Chesapeake is about as benign and environment as you can get. unless a T-storm kicks up, or a hurricane. The soft mud is ubiquitous, and there is no such thing as a rocky lee shore. There are a few. True, but compared to Maine its a padded cell. yup, and we love it. SV |
How many anchors ?
I have no doubt it
satisfies your needs, but this is not a good choice for someone that wants to get a good night's sleep on the hook. I guess I was lucky then when I managed to sleep through the night the few times I spent on the hook. One was even in a thunderstorm in Baltimore Harbor on less than ideal scope because of the depth. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
How many anchors ?
There are a few.
Yea, that's right! I keep my boat on Rock Creek. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
How many anchors ?
I will grant you one thing - the Chesapeake is about as benign and
environment And one of the top 3 sailing areas in the world. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:30 PM. |
|
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com