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Kerry in trouble!
"Vito" wrote in message
... How many inaccuracies, half truths, and blatantly bigoted statements can we find in Vito's latest? Let's see: We are beset by terrorists because of our ongoing support for the invasion of Palistine No one beleives this. The primary complaint of Al Qaeda is the occupation of Sauid Arabia by US forces. and the slow eradication of its indigineous Muslim population Odd - the Muslim population has growth steadily over the last 100 years. This is a particularly insidious lie because it implies that there is some form of "ethnic cleansing" going on. This is blatantly false. by Jewish outsiders. The has always been a Jewish community in Palestine. And remember, a significant number (some say a majority) of those now claiming to be "indigenous" Palestinians actually immigrated along with the Jewish immigrants, who created economic opportunities. These terrorist attacks can only worsen as the last Palistinians are either killed or driven out. There is absolutly no evidence that anything like this is going on. I cannot blame either side because there is plenty of blame to go around. For sure ... The original Jewish European European? The largest group of settlers (before the Russian Jews) actually came from other Muslim countries. It is often overlooked that as 600,000 Palestinians were voluntarily leaving (on the advice of Arab leaders) a much larger number of Jews were being evicted from Muslim countries. While the Palestinians were allowed to take all their possessions, the Jews generally had everything confiscated. invaders Invaders? They were legal immigrants who purchased land from Muslims eager to sell. had been driven from their homes by Nazis then kept from returning by their Christian neighbors, leaving them no place to go. This was true in the case of the Polish Jews, who tried to return to Poland and were rejected. But for the most part the European Jews were wiped out by the Holocaust and the survivers were a small part of the immagration. The Palistinians have no effective weapons with which to fight Israeli helo's and artillery There was no need to fight; they have been offered peace many times, and have always found a way to avoid it. The current "occupation" was triggered by terrorism, not the other way around. Your claims makes as much sense as claiming that the 9/11 attacks were actually a legitimate protest against long security lines at the airports. so they become suicide bombers - terrorists if you will. If I will??? If your child was blown up while on a school bus I think you would call them terrorists. Now their allies such as Al Quida Not allies, just other terrorists. are attacking Israel's allies. We can say "If. If, If" but it will never end until Israel has eradicated all of the Palistinians or vice versa. Or, when the majority of the Palestinians, who want peace, take control of their lives. Slick Willy Clinton had a compromise deal almost tied up - Isreal offered to give the Palestinians virtually everything they asked for in return for Peace. until the current PM of Israel defiled a mosque. Absolute nonsense - even the Palestinians admit this is completely false. The Intifada was planned long in advance by Arafat. The mosque event in Sept 2000 has been cited as a trigger so that that "blame" for the Intifada can be placed on Israel. And that'll go on and on .... so long as people are stupid enough Vito's post is proof that there will always be stupid people. to believe that Abraham met the all-seeing creator of the universe hoofing across a desert to check on rumors, fed him a veal sandwich, and was given half the middle east Half the Middle East? Are you saying the Jews are entitled to half of Saudi Arabia? in return for circumcising himself and all the men in his household - because that belief is the cornerstone of Judism, Chritianity and Islam. The belief itself isn't the problem, the problem is people are stupid enough to believe it. The fundamental problem is the belief by some in the Muslim community that they have a divine right to rule all the land from India to Spain. |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
"Bobsprit" wrote in message Maxi wrote: Um, would you mind if I had one last Fling with Angelo's first? Max Maxipad, seriously, take the gay stuff somewhere else, okay? Thanks! Boring. Max |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
"Scott Vernon" wrote in message Sure, if Angelo is straight. Who knows. He does own a restaurant in SF, after all. Max |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
OzOne wrote in message On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 05:09:04 GMT, "Maxprop" scribbled thusly: "DSK" wrote in message "Vito" wrote ... " but who'd miss NYC or DC per se? Scott Vernon wrote: not me. could we put San Fran on the list, also? Agreed. But just get rid of them? We should see if we could trade 'em for, say, Singapore, Rio, and ummm... trying to think of another big city I've liked... Sydney. Oz seems to think it's perfect. It's pretty bloody close as capital cities go. Great. We'll take it. How does Miami sound in trade? Max |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
OzOne wrote in message On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 11:38:58 -0400, DSK scribbled thusly: Sydney. Oz seems to think it's perfect. OzOne wrote: It's pretty bloody close as capital cities go. ??? Did the Oz gov't move out of Canberra? Capital of the state of NSW. Did you notice that I used a lower case c same as I use a p for president. Anyway, I'll come check it out. If I like it, can we trade? Nah, but you can send over the Rockies....we could use them on our west coast to generate a bit of rainfall to say nothing of the skiing. Uh-uh. But how about the Appalachians? Max |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
"Scott Vernon" wrote in message "Maxprop" wrote Boston, Baltimore? oops, same city. I'd trade 'em both for Paris, Paris Hilton? Maybe, if you'll throw in that friend of hers. Max |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
"DSK" wrote in message I'd trade 'em both for Paris If we could have the museums & cathedrals without the rest of the city and with only a few carefully selected French people, sure. Let's see, we'd want the sidewalk crepe stands, the wine stores, and a couple dozen of the restaurants too. Only problem is that Paris is too far away from any good sailing locations. It would look terrific overlooking SF Bay. Max |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
OzOne wrote in message On 9 Jun 2004 22:43:19 GMT, "Scott Vernon" scribbled thusly: OzOne wrote in message ... On 9 Jun 2004 22:22:30 GMT, "Scott Vernon" scribbled thusly: ozone wrote I'd trade 'em both for Paris, Paris Hilton? I hear she's had more meat go thru her than a wholesale butcher shop. and? and....she didn't pay for it....? do you? I'm Married...Of course I pay. LOL. Well said. Max |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
"Bobsprit" wrote in message Maxi wrote... I really hope this is your tongue-in-my-cheek. Max What a total homo! And to think Navigator was worried that I was making a fool of myself trying to beat you at your own game. Well, you've accomplished that all by yourself. Exceedingly boring, Bubbles. Perhaps I should ignore you, as most of the others in this NG do. Max |
Kerry in trouble!
"Vito" wrote...
We are beset by terrorists because of our ongoing support for the invasion of Palistine By whom? Syria? Jeff Morris wrote: No one beleives this. The primary complaint of Al Qaeda is the occupation of Sauid Arabia by US forces. Well, that plus their friggin' whacko clerics keep telling them that U.S. stands for "Ultimate Satan." Actually, they don't like our support for Israel (which isn't quite the same thing as Vito said) but that's not AFAIK their main gripe. Meanwhile, there are plenty of political-minded Muslims elsewhere who despise our support of Israel. and the slow eradication of its indigineous Muslim population Odd - the Muslim population has growth steadily over the last 100 years. This is a particularly insidious lie because it implies that there is some form of "ethnic cleansing" going on. This is blatantly false. And it's particularly ironic considering the pogroms practiced by almost every country the Jews lived in other than the U.S. and Israel. Definitely including the various Arab states pre-1948. .... And remember, a significant number (some say a majority) of those now claiming to be "indigenous" Palestinians actually immigrated along with the Jewish immigrants, who created economic opportunities. This is a good point. Most of what is now Israel was barren wasteland before. I particularly enjoy the Palestinians announcing "that was my grandfather's orange grove" when the sign on the gate says TAHAL (large Iraeli irrigation project that started in the 1950s). I cannot blame either side because there is plenty of blame to go around. For sure ... Unfortunately very true. The original Jewish European European? The largest group of settlers (before the Russian Jews) actually came from other Muslim countries. It is often overlooked that as 600,000 Palestinians were voluntarily leaving (on the advice of Arab leaders) a much larger number of Jews were being evicted from Muslim countries. While the Palestinians were allowed to take all their possessions, the Jews generally had everything confiscated. invaders Invaders? They were legal immigrants who purchased land from Muslims eager to sell. had been driven from their homes by Nazis then kept from returning by their Christian neighbors, leaving them no place to go. This was true in the case of the Polish Jews, who tried to return to Poland and were rejected. But for the most part the European Jews were wiped out by the Holocaust and the survivers were a small part of the immagration. Let's not forget that at the UN partition (IIRC 1947), the Arabs were given most of the choice pieces of what is now Israel, including property that had been previoulsy bought & paid for by Jews. But that was not enough... the surrounding Arabs states invaded the Jewish territory. Did they really intend to slaughter every Jewish man, woman, and child, or was that just fiery rhetoric? In any event, they lost. And as Jeff noted, the surrounding Arab states urged the Palestinians to leave yet would not give them homes. In many Arab schools the UN partition and the Arab invasion is not mentioned, only Israel's war for and declaration of independence. Their name for this is "The Disaster." Guess what their kids grow up believing... The Palistinians have no effective weapons with which to fight Israeli helo's and artillery There was no need to fight; they have been offered peace many times, and have always found a way to avoid it. What I can't understand is why the Palestinians are so eager to be cannon fodder for their greedier & less brave Arab neighbors. The fundamental problem is the belief by some in the Muslim community that they have a divine right to rule all the land from India to Spain. I think this is a very small minority. But the Arab & Muslim beliefs (however misguided) *are* important in this equation. For example, I have had American born Muslim friends tell me that *of course* the Sept 11th attack was planned and carried out by the Mossad. Imagine what Muslims elsewhere in the world believe. The U.S. cannot afford to ignore the growing conviction that we are the bad guys. Much less feed that impression by being the bad guys. A hypocritical self-righteous crusade will result in our grandchildren having to fight off suicide bombers. Regards Doug King |
Kerry in trouble!
"Joe" wrote in message What if your investments were in Clean up type companies, radation detection companys, body bag mfgrs, coffin mfgrs, construction, lumber, bricks, glass ect. And who's going to pay for all this cleanup, etc.? With the rest of the stock market in ruin and the economy crashing through the floor, the gummint isn't going to have enough money for toilet paper in the congressional rest rooms. When people are out of work, the federal coffers get pretty bare in record time. And what will happen when the relatives of victims want federal reparations for their losses, as did those of 9/11? Who will fund that? I think you underestimate the American people Max. You need to drive across country and look at the almost unlimited supply of resources. Our prime resource is people, and many of them will be out of work. If Americans all got involved and cared like they did in WWII this great nation can overcome anything. Don't hold your breath. Even the vitriol following 9/11 was relatively short-lived. The level of 'patriotism' seen in the Forties was virtually unprecendented, and doubtfully repeated. The media have seen to that. Like that jap said "I fear all we have done is awaken an angry giant" What will we do that we aren't doing now? Nuke the entire Middle East, less Israel, of course? We are on the terrorist's like chickens on a june bug. They are very busy trying not to get killed right now. Lets keep up the pressure. That's all we can do. We can't find them. We can't identify the ones we have. We have some incarcerated that aren't terrorists. But that pressure costs huge amounts of taxpayer dollars. And to increase the pressure, our rights as US citizens will undoubtedly be injured, if not curtailed. Is it worth it? It's easy to get sucker punched, its stupid to get sucker punched twice. If al Qaeda were intelligent, they'd allow the US to adopt a false sense of security by curtailing any and all terrorist activity against us. After returning to our former sense of complacency, they'd strike. Thankfully they don't appear to be that bright. Or are they? Max |
Kerry in trouble!
OzOne wrote in message On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 05:12:29 GMT, "Maxprop" scribbled thusly: Oh he'll be well gone by then. I'm talking at least another 2 presidents before it's calm again. What makes you think the next two presidents will behave/perform any differently than this one? You have far more optimism than I. Must have something to do with hanging by your feet with all that blood rushing to your head. Max One can only hope. First ya gotta find one without a score to settle. Impossible. They all have scores to settle. Politics is a vicious game, enemies made, paybacks planned. Max |
Kerry in trouble!
"DSK" wrote in message "DSK" wrote. Why is the tremendous amount of spending on the war in Iraq not helping the economy more? Maxprop wrote: Probably because we don't have a tangible enemy, as we did in WWII. No. Dollars don't care about ideology. Have you ever heard of the term "velocity" referring to money & economics? It may or may not be the real reason, but the easiest way to explain the current situation (huge increase in gov't spending, no or only very small increase in aggregate demand or the overall economy) is that the velocity of the money spent is not high enough to generate more dollars being spent. You seem to imply that money is an autonomous medium, moving irrespective of the whims and wishes of the humans that handle it. Interesting. I would explain this by saying that the people reaping these huge war profits are not spending the money as they rake it in. Probably sending it overseas. Oh, so it's not autonomous. Okay, your point immediately above may be correct. Overseas investment is increasing daily. Nothing new, really, but at least it should be reflected in the world economic picture. But it ain't, at least not currently w/r/t the Iraq war. ... Note how the stock market bumped when the statue of Saddam was torn down. Also note how it has fluctuated every time bad news from the Iraqi front airs. The stock market is only a tiny portion of the overall economy. And it is a follower, not a leader, in the overall economy. In theoretical economic parlance, yes. But the activity of the markets (global, not just the US) have a huge impact upon the decisions and actions of those who control vast amounts of money. The markets aren't strictly followers, rather they are part of a larger symbiotic relationship, replete with feedback loops. For example, in 1929 we had an ongoing recession that was not reflected in the stock market... instead the stock market ballooned even more... for a while... The dot-com bust was the same. It made no sense whatever to place a huge valuation on companies with no profits and no productivity. And guess what, eventually the stock market followed! Suggested reading: http://lachlan.bluehaze.com.au/books...1929crash.html It's been a while since my college econ, but I do recall some of the features of the '29 crash. Max |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
OzOne wrote and....she didn't pay for it....? do you? I'm Married...Of course I pay. Oh. So you're jealous. |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
"Maxprop" wrote in message link.net... "Scott Vernon" wrote in message Sure, if Angelo is straight. Who knows. Ganz? |
Kerry in trouble!
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 00:35:19 GMT, "Maxprop"
wrote this crap: And who's going to pay for all this cleanup, etc.? With the rest of the stock market in ruin and the economy crashing through the floor, What country do you live in? Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now! |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 05:08:07 GMT, "Maxprop"
wrote this crap: "Scott Vernon" wrote in message "Vito" wrote ... " but who'd miss NYC or DC per se? not me. could we put San Fran on the list, also? Um, would you mind if I had one last dinner at Angelo's first? Is the food better than Hooters? Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now! |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 05:10:00 GMT, "Maxprop"
wrote this crap: Boston, Baltimore? oops, same city. I'd trade 'em both for Paris, but ya gotta remove the Frenchies first. Paris sucks. If you want a Europeeing city, go with Munich. The food and beer is better. Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now! |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 13:47:27 -0400, DSK wrote
this crap: Naw, she's too skinny. Besides I am happily married. Nobody is happily married. Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now! |
Kerry in trouble!
Maxprop wrote:
You seem to imply that money is an autonomous medium, moving irrespective of the whims and wishes of the humans that handle it. Interesting. Not at all. Just referring to an economic concept. Money doesn't do anything by itself, obviously. Equally obvious is that not everybody does the same thing with their money: some spend it one place, some spend it another, some save more, some save less. What I am saying is that with the tremendous increase in U.S. gov't spending, and the continued economic doldrums, it looks like the people who received that money did not go out and spend it in ways that help the U.S. economy. As an aside, it seems likely to me that much of the money handed out for the Iraq war is now being spent by overseas corporate types... it will get back to us, eventually, but in the meantime it has done us little (if any) good... economically and other ways... The stock market is only a tiny portion of the overall economy. And it is a follower, not a leader, in the overall economy. In theoretical economic parlance, yes. But the activity of the markets (global, not just the US) have a huge impact upon the decisions and actions of those who control vast amounts of money. The markets aren't strictly followers, rather they are part of a larger symbiotic relationship, replete with feedback loops. Unfortunately the feedback loop is mostly hysteresis. As a market for capital, the stock market is important to the economy. In any other way, it is parasitic. DSK |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
Great. We'll take it. How does Miami sound in trade?
OzOne wrote: Miami? Bwaaahahahahahahhahahahahaa! What would we do with Miami? Use it as a garbage dump? Well, you might have to clean it up a little first, but if that's what you want to do with it... OK, if Miami doesn't work for you, let's work this the other way... what city would you take for Sydney? Check out the skiing in Vermont, now... DSK |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
OzOne wrote:
Honestly Doug, every time I fly back into Sydney, the hair on y neck stands up. I don't think I'd trade her, bu I will take a mountain or two :-) OK, how about this one? http://cs.skitown.com/overview.cfm/vt22.htm My uncle lives near this place and he's tired of all the tourist traffic. DSK |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
ozone wrote Honestly Doug, every time I fly back into Sydney, the hair on y neck stands up. It's that bad, eh? I usually give a sigh of relief when I get back to Plowville . -- Scott Vernon Plowville PA __/)__/)__ |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
A sad commentary on your situation. I'm sorry for you. Really.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Horvath" wrote in message ... On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 13:47:27 -0400, DSK wrote this crap: Naw, she's too skinny. Besides I am happily married. Nobody is happily married. Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now! |
Kerry in trouble!
"Jeff Morris" wrote
We are beset by terrorists because of our ongoing support for the invasion of Palistine No one beleives this. No, they'd rather believe that a man named Jesus Christ is god,and that Israelis have a right to kill Palistinians but it is a fact. Terrorism predates the 1st gulf war. and the slow eradication of its indigineous Muslim population Odd - the Muslim population has growth steadily over the last 100 years. This is a particularly insidious lie because it implies that there is some form of "ethnic cleansing" going on. This is blatantly false. Please cite figures showing that the Muslim population of Palistine (not the world as a whole) has grown since 1948. As far as ethnic cleansing goes that is an ongoing observable process. Remember the massacres in the refugee camps in Lebanon orchestrated by none other than Sharon - the same man who torpedoed Clinton's peace initiative. The has always been a Jewish community in Palestine. And remember, a significant number (some say a majority) of those now claiming to be "indigenous" Palestinians actually immigrated along with the Jewish immigrants, who created economic opportunities. Yes indeed, but these were few compared to the flood of "displaced persons" - European Jews who had been driven from their homes by the Nazis then kept out by their good Christian neighbors. Nor did these prewar settlers declare a Jewish State and begin ousting their non-jewish neighbors who wanted to obey Muslim vs Jewish custom and law. These terrorist attacks can only worsen as the last Palistinians are either killed or driven out. There is absolutly no evidence that anything like this is going on. On the contrary, the evidence is obvious. There was no "Jewish State" in 1947; now it occupies most of Palestine and part of Jordan. There was enough land devoid of Jewish settlements to create a Palistinian state as recently as the last decade when Clinton proposed just that and both sides agreed. But a palistinian state would have precluded the annexation of those lands by Israel. So Sharon ****ed in the mosque and the whole deal collapsed. Now there is not enough *contiguous* land free of Jewish settlement to create a palistinian state anymore. Every month, more and more land is taken by The Jewish State, just as more and more land was taken from Native Americans by our own US Government - and it won't stop until it has all been taken and the few palistinians left are in refugee camps ... excuse me "reservations". The original Jewish European European? The largest group of settlers (before the Russian Jews) actually came from other Muslim countries. It is often overlooked that as 600,000 Palestinians were voluntarily leaving (on the advice of Arab leaders) a much larger number of Jews were being evicted from Muslim countries. While the Palestinians were allowed to take all their possessions, the Jews generally had everything confiscated. Yes European! In the years after WW2 and before Britian left nobody knows how many million European refugees moved to "the promised land" - Palistine. Nobody knows because their immigration was illegal! Why do you think Arab leaders advised Palistinian Muslims to leave?? Moreover, the Europeans comprising Israel did not welcome these middle-eastern Jews right away. Invaders? They were legal immigrants who purchased land from Muslims eager to sell. No, they were not. Britian was charged with protecting Palistine from them. I knew men who were in that force. As one put it "You have a boatload of people who look and act just like yourself, who have no place to go, and you're ordered to force them back to sea to protect a bunch of rag heads who wear dresses so they can better **** in the street ..... Guess what we did? And guess who we handed our guns and ammo to when we left!" Eager to sell? I'm eager to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge for a million bucks too, since I don't own it. Ditto Indians who sold Manhattan. This was true in the case of the Polish Jews, who tried to return to Poland and were rejected. But for the most part the European Jews were wiped out by the Holocaust and the survivers were a small part of the immagration. Last I looked, Poland was in Europe. We know that there were 600(?) MILLION fewer Jews in Europe when the first post-war censuses were taken and propagandists claim that Nazis killed that many. But Nazis were meticulous record keepers and their records show hundreds of millions less were killed. Why the descrepancy? Obviously many of the Jews comprising this descrepancy - the survivors - didn't stay in Europe to be counted. Some went to America, etc., and a whole flock (millions?) went to Palistine. That's the invasion I'm talking about. There was no need to fight; they have been offered peace many times, .... As were American Indians. All they had to do was nuckle under to The Jewish State and obey its laws and customs. so they become suicide bombers - terrorists if you will. If I will??? If your child was blown up while on a school bus I think you would call them terrorists. Sure would. But what would you call the girl who blew up the bus - the teen who gave her life to avenge your child, killed by an American tank driven by an Israeli who just moved in from the ex-USSR? Like I said, there's plenty of hate and blame to go around. Or, when the majority of the Palestinians, who want peace, take control of their lives. The majority want peace to live their lives in accordance with their own laws and customs - not peace at any price, not at the price of being second class citizens subject to Kosher law and custom. Slick Willy Clinton had a compromise deal almost tied up - Isreal offered to give the Palestinians virtually everything they asked for in return for Peace. Yes, and peace was nearly at hand - until the current PM of Israel defiled a mosque. Absolute nonsense - even the Palestinians admit this is completely false. Funny, all the news reported it as true. What Palistinians say he didn't? Cite? Vito's post is proof that there will always be stupid people. Name calling is ever the refuge of the prejudised when their prejudises are attacked by truth. Half the Middle East? Are you saying the Jews are entitled to half of Saudi Arabia? Read your Bible. Was half of Saudi Arabia included? The fundamental problem is the belief by some in the Muslim community that they have a divine right to rule all the land from India to Spain. One could instead argue that the fundamental problem is the belief by some that the Jewish State has a devine right to rule the lands God gave Moses, but the fact is neither one is "the fundamental problem". The fundamental problem is mans eagerness to murder everybody who disagrees with his own often idiotic religeous notions. |
Kerry in trouble!
Vito wrote:
... Terrorism predates the 1st gulf war. There's a genius statement. Terrorism goes back about as far as recorded history. Please cite figures showing that the Muslim population of Palistine (not the world as a whole) has grown since 1948. Says that as of the mid 1940s, there were approx 1 million Arabs in Palestine (area including what what is now Israel). http://www.mideastweb.org/palpop.htm Says that the current Palestinian population, not including emigrants and long term refugee camp population in Lebanon & Syria, is 1,767,500 as of 1993. http://www.library.uu.nl/wesp/populs...a/palestig.htm There you go. Invaders? They were legal immigrants who purchased land from Muslims eager to sell. No, they were not. Britian was charged with protecting Palistine from them. Look, the Zionist movement was started back in the 1800s, long before the British were handed their mandate in Palestine. It was funded by some of the wealthiest families in the world at the time... ever heard of the Rothschilds? One could instead argue that the fundamental problem is the belief by some that the Jewish State has a devine right to rule the lands God gave Moses, but the fact is neither one is "the fundamental problem". The fundamental problem is mans eagerness to murder everybody who disagrees with his own often idiotic religeous notions. Agreed- and that idiotic eagerness is readily fueled by ignorance. That is why your largely fact-free posts convince me that we are very much on the wrong track. The funny thing is that, like Navvie, you seem convinced that you are well informed. DSK |
Kerry in trouble!
"DSK" wrote
Vito wrote: Please cite figures showing that the Muslim population of Palistine (not the world as a whole) has grown since 1948. Says that as of the mid 1940s, there were approx 1 million Arabs in Palestine (area including what what is now Israel). http://www.mideastweb.org/palpop.htm Says that the current Palestinian population, not including emigrants and long term refugee camp population in Lebanon & Syria, is 1,767,500 as of 1993. http://www.library.uu.nl/wesp/populs...a/palestig.htm There you go. Thanks for the figures. I'm surprised. Looks like this'll go on forever because Arabs are making babies faster than Israel kills them. Amost doubled in 50 years despite Israels efforts. Wow! Look, the Zionist movement was started back in the 1800s, long before the British were handed their mandate in Palestine. It was funded by some of the wealthiest families in the world at the time... ever heard of the Rothschilds? I know that. Jews have been going back ever since Rome scattered them two milennia ago. But these Jews moving to Palistine from other mid-east regions were ethnically Semites and culturally more akin to their Arab neighbors than those coming after WW2, who were ethnically and culturally European, having interacted and intermarried with Europeans for over 1000 years. Thus there were far fewer conflicts and no attempt to start a Jewish State until the European halocost survivors arrived (illegally) shouting "never again" after WW2. One could instead argue that the fundamental problem is the belief by some that the Jewish State has a devine right to rule the lands God gave Moses, but the fact is neither one is "the fundamental problem". The fundamental problem is mans eagerness to murder everybody who disagrees with his own often idiotic religeous notions. Agreed- and that idiotic eagerness is readily fueled by ignorance. That is why your largely fact-free posts convince me that we are very much on the wrong track. The funny thing is that, like Navvie, you seem convinced that you are well informed. I don't know Navvie, but I have been blessed to know people who lived this history - Jewish-American soldiers who helped liberate prison camps, saw how returning survivors were treated in France and aided the exodus, and Brits who served in Palistine - which makes me somewhat better informed than those who depend on the NY Times. And I say again, personal attack is ever the refuge of the biased when their prejudices are threatened. I don't know what "track" you refer to. I'm simply saying that our zealous support for Israel has made us the enemy of everyone who disagrees with us and that we must expect retaliation. It's human nature. |
Kerry in trouble!
"Vito" wrote in message ... Terrorism predates the 1st gulf war. Duh. and the slow eradication of its indigineous Muslim population Odd - the Muslim population has growth steadily over the last 100 years. This is a particularly insidious lie because it implies that there is some form of "ethnic cleansing" going on. This is blatantly false. Please cite figures showing that the Muslim population of Palistine (not the world as a whole) has grown since 1948. Cite figures? Are you daft? Do you really believe this "ethnic cleansing" nonsense? OK, the number of Palestinian refugees that left the new state of Israel has been reported at 450,000 (by UN observers) to 600,000 (the number usually cited in Israel) to 1,000,000 (the number Palestine usually cite). Since the last census before partition showed about 800,000 Arabs and two years later the number was about 160,000, the middle number has the most credibility. The current population of the West Bank and Gaza is over 3,000,000, and a larger number of Palestinians have emigrated to other countries. As far as ethnic cleansing goes that is an ongoing observable process. Total rubbish - only a deranged racist would believe such crap. Remember the massacres in the refugee camps in Lebanon orchestrated by none other than Sharon - the same man who torpedoed Clinton's peace initiative. More total rubbish - even the Palestinians don't believe this. The has always been a Jewish community in Palestine. And remember, a significant number (some say a majority) of those now claiming to be "indigenous" Palestinians actually immigrated along with the Jewish immigrants, who created economic opportunities. Yes indeed, but these were few compared to the flood of "displaced persons" - European Jews who had been driven from their homes by the Nazis then kept out by their good Christian neighbors. Nor did these prewar settlers declare a Jewish State and begin ousting their non-jewish neighbors who wanted to obey Muslim vs Jewish custom and law. They did however purchase a large amount of land - roughly 80% of the land that is actually populated by Jews was purchased from the Arab land holders before partition. These terrorist attacks can only worsen as the last Palistinians are either killed or driven out. There is absolutly no evidence that anything like this is going on. On the contrary, the evidence is obvious. There was no "Jewish State" in 1947; now it occupies most of Palestine and part of Jordan. There was enough land devoid of Jewish settlements to create a Palistinian state as recently as the last decade when Clinton proposed just that and both sides agreed. But a palistinian state would have precluded the annexation of those lands by Israel. So Sharon ****ed in the mosque and the whole deal collapsed. Once again you've repeated this blatant lie. There was no correlation between the Mosque incident and the Intifada. From the Palestinian Communications Minister 'Imad Al-Faluji two years ago (Al-Safir, March 3, 2001, trans. MEMRI): "Whoever thinks the Intifada broke out because of the despised Sharon's visit to the Al-Aqsa Mosque is wrong....This Intifada was planned in advance, ever since President Arafat's return from the Camp David Negotiations." Even earlier, Al-Faluji had explained that the Intifada was initiated as the result of a strategic decision made by the Palestinians (Al-Ayyam, December 6, 2000). http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/planned.html Further, Sharon did not enter any Mosque as he had been advised by the Palestinian Authority that the visit would be OK if he did not enter. One must remember that the site he visited (the Temple Mount) is the holiest site in Judaism, being the location of the First and Second Temples. At the time of the visit there was only a minor protest, the major protest started a day later with the encouragement of Arafat. The actual Intifada had started a month earlier. Now there is not enough *contiguous* land free of Jewish settlement to create a palistinian state anymore. Every month, more and more land is taken by The Jewish State, just as more and more land was taken from Native Americans by our own US Government - and it won't stop until it has all been taken and the few palistinians left are in refugee camps ... excuse me "reservations". The impediment to Peace is not the settlements - that can be dealt with. Its clear that Arafat and Hamas have no desire to have Peace. The original Jewish European European? The largest group of settlers (before the Russian Jews) actually came from other Muslim countries. It is often overlooked that as 600,000 Palestinians were voluntarily leaving (on the advice of Arab leaders) a much larger number of Jews were being evicted from Muslim countries. While the Palestinians were allowed to take all their possessions, the Jews generally had everything confiscated. Yes European! In the years after WW2 and before Britian left nobody knows how many million European refugees Millions? You've gone off the deep end here Vito. The actual number was about 83,000. A significant number, but small compared to, for example, the number expelled from Iraq a few years later. moved to "the promised land" - Palistine. Nobody knows because their immigration was illegal! Why do you think Arab leaders advised Palistinian Muslims to leave?? They had more political power that way? Moreover, the Europeans comprising Israel did not welcome these middle-eastern Jews right away. Totally wrong - all were accepted. Who do you think brought them in? This is unlike the Arab community which has not contributed a penny to the Palestinian Refugees. Invaders? They were legal immigrants who purchased land from Muslims eager to sell. No, they were not. Britian was charged with protecting Palistine from them. I knew men who were in that force. As one put it "You have a boatload of people who look and act just like yourself, who have no place to go, and you're ordered to force them back to sea to protect a bunch of rag heads who wear dresses so they can better **** in the street ..... Guess what we did? And guess who we handed our guns and ammo to when we left!" Eager to sell? I'm eager to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge for a million bucks too, since I don't own it. Ditto Indians who sold Manhattan. Most of the land in Palestine that was sold was owned either by the state (Turkey) or by absentee landlords. This was true in the case of the Polish Jews, who tried to return to Poland and were rejected. But for the most part the European Jews were wiped out by the Holocaust and the survivers were a small part of the immagration. Last I looked, Poland was in Europe. We know that there were 600(?) MILLION 600 Million??? Vito, you're soft as puppy ****. fewer Jews in Europe when the first post-war censuses were taken and propagandists claim that Nazis killed that many. But Nazis were meticulous record keepers and their records show hundreds of millions less were killed. Why the descrepancy? Obviously many of the Jews comprising this descrepancy - the survivors - didn't stay in Europe to be counted. Some went to America, etc., and a whole flock (millions?) went to Palistine. That's the invasion I'm talking about. So now you're claiming the Holocaust never happened? All the "missing" Jews snuck into Palestine? Now you're showing your true colors, Vito. There was no need to fight; they have been offered peace many times, .... As were American Indians. All they had to do was nuckle under to The Jewish State and obey its laws and customs. As the descendents of the Palestinians who chose to stay have done. There are over a million Arabs happy to be citizens in Israel now. so they become suicide bombers - terrorists if you will. If I will??? If your child was blown up while on a school bus I think you would call them terrorists. Sure would. But what would you call the girl who blew up the bus - A victim of child abuse by the cowards of Hamas. the teen who gave her life to avenge your child, killed by an American tank driven by an Israeli who just moved in from the ex-USSR? Like I said, there's plenty of hate and blame to go around. Or, when the majority of the Palestinians, who want peace, take control of their lives. The majority want peace to live their lives in accordance with their own laws and customs - not peace at any price, not at the price of being second class citizens subject to Kosher law and custom. Kosher Law? Is that what you think this is about? Half of the Jews in Israel are "secular" and could care less about Kosher. Slick Willy Clinton had a compromise deal almost tied up - Isreal offered to give the Palestinians virtually everything they asked for in return for Peace. Yes, and peace was nearly at hand - until the current PM of Israel defiled a mosque. Absolute nonsense - even the Palestinians admit this is completely false. Funny, all the news reported it as true. What Palistinians say he didn't? Cite? Cited above. Only an idiot or a dupe beleives this silly claim. Arafat had already rejected the peace plan and had started a new wave of violence. So says the PA Minister of Communication. Vito's post is proof that there will always be stupid people. Name calling is ever the refuge of the prejudised when their prejudises are attacked by truth. No, this isn't name calling, its a statement of fact. People that repeat obvious falsehoods over and over deserve to be called stupid. Repeating lies and denying the Holocaust are pretty clear signs of this. Half the Middle East? Are you saying the Jews are entitled to half of Saudi Arabia? Read your Bible. Was half of Saudi Arabia included? You're the one who mentioned "half of the Middle East." Which half were you talking about? The fundamental problem is the belief by some in the Muslim community that they have a divine right to rule all the land from India to Spain. One could instead argue that the fundamental problem is the belief by some that the Jewish State has a devine right to rule the lands God gave Moses, but the fact is neither one is "the fundamental problem". The fundamental problem is mans eagerness to murder everybody who disagrees with his own often idiotic religeous notions. The vast majority of Israelis would do anything for for a true peace, including giving up most of the settlements. Most of the Palestinians would do the same. Unfortunately, the Intifada is continued by those that would lose their power if Peace broke out. |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
OzOne wrote in message On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 00:15:11 GMT, "Maxprop" scribbled thusly: Sydney. Oz seems to think it's perfect. It's pretty bloody close as capital cities go. Great. We'll take it. How does Miami sound in trade? Max Miami? Bwaaahahahahahahhahahahahaa! What would we do with Miami? Use it as a garbage dump? Of course. That's what we do with it. Max |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
"DSK" wrote in message Great. We'll take it. How does Miami sound in trade? OzOne wrote: Miami? Bwaaahahahahahahhahahahahaa! What would we do with Miami? Use it as a garbage dump? Well, you might have to clean it up a little first, but if that's what you want to do with it... OK, if Miami doesn't work for you, let's work this the other way... what city would you take for Sydney? Check out the skiing in Vermont, now... Shhhhh, Doug. They can't have Vermont. Max |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
"Horvath" wrote in message On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 05:08:07 GMT, "Maxprop" wrote this crap: "Scott Vernon" wrote in message "Vito" wrote ... " but who'd miss NYC or DC per se? not me. could we put San Fran on the list, also? Um, would you mind if I had one last dinner at Angelo's first? Is the food better than Hooters? Everything's better than Hooters, except the help. Max |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
OzOne wrote in message ... On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 06:13:32 -0400, Horvath scribbled thusly: On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 13:47:27 -0400, DSK wrote this crap: Naw, she's too skinny. Besides I am happily married. Nobody is happily married. Nah, but some are deliriously happily married Did you misspell *delusionally?* Max |
Kerry in trouble!
"Horvath" wrote in message ... On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 00:35:19 GMT, "Maxprop" wrote this crap: And who's going to pay for all this cleanup, etc.? With the rest of the stock market in ruin and the economy crashing through the floor, What country do you live in? You tuned in rather too late to know what's being discussed. Max |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
In article .net,
Maxprop wrote: OzOne wrote in message On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 05:09:04 GMT, "Maxprop" scribbled thusly: "DSK" wrote in message "Vito" wrote ... " but who'd miss NYC or DC per se? Scott Vernon wrote: not me. could we put San Fran on the list, also? Agreed. But just get rid of them? We should see if we could trade 'em for, say, Singapore, Rio, and ummm... trying to think of another big city I've liked... Sydney. Oz seems to think it's perfect. It's pretty bloody close as capital cities go. Great. We'll take it. How does Miami sound in trade? We'll give you Ceduna for Miami. PDW |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
In article , OzOne wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:45:34 -0400, DSK scribbled thusly: Great. We'll take it. How does Miami sound in trade? OzOne wrote: Miami? Bwaaahahahahahahhahahahahaa! What would we do with Miami? Use it as a garbage dump? Well, you might have to clean it up a little first, but if that's what you want to do with it... OK, if Miami doesn't work for you, let's work this the other way... what city would you take for Sydney? Check out the skiing in Vermont, now... DSK Hmmm tough question. Santa Fe's nice but too far from water. San Diego is OK but a little busy and polluted. San Fran..too many cats Boston if you could change the people...maybe a neutron bomb? Honestly Doug, every time I fly back into Sydney, the hair on y neck stands up. I don't think I'd trade her, bu I will take a mountain or two :-) If the USA took over BC it might just be worth swapping Vancouver for Sydney. Definitely not Seattle, tho. PDW |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:29:13 GMT, "Maxprop"
wrote this crap: Um, would you mind if I had one last dinner at Angelo's first? Is the food better than Hooters? Everything's better than Hooters, except the help. I can't believe the curley fries are better. Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now! |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 20:21:39 +1000, OzOne wrote this crap:
Nobody is happily married. Nah, but some are deliriously happily married You spelled delusionally wrong. Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now! |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
"Horvath" wrote in message On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:29:13 GMT, "Maxprop" wrote this crap: Um, would you mind if I had one last dinner at Angelo's first? Is the food better than Hooters? Everything's better than Hooters, except the help. I can't believe the curley fries are better. Perish the thought! Angelos is a quaint Italian place on Chestnut. Seating for about 40 and the best pasta anywhere. Curly fries. My God. Max |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
"Peter Wiley" wrote in message . .. In article , OzOne wrote: On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:45:34 -0400, DSK scribbled thusly: Great. We'll take it. How does Miami sound in trade? OzOne wrote: Miami? Bwaaahahahahahahhahahahahaa! What would we do with Miami? Use it as a garbage dump? Well, you might have to clean it up a little first, but if that's what you want to do with it... OK, if Miami doesn't work for you, let's work this the other way... what city would you take for Sydney? Check out the skiing in Vermont, now... DSK Hmmm tough question. Santa Fe's nice but too far from water. San Diego is OK but a little busy and polluted. San Fran..too many cats Boston if you could change the people...maybe a neutron bomb? Honestly Doug, every time I fly back into Sydney, the hair on y neck stands up. I don't think I'd trade her, bu I will take a mountain or two :-) If the USA took over BC Haven't we done that yet? Damn, I could have sworn . . . Max |
Kerry in trouble! NYC & DC gone!
Peter Wiley wrote: In article .net, Maxprop wrote: OzOne wrote in message On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 05:09:04 GMT, "Maxprop" scribbled thusly: "DSK" wrote in message "Vito" wrote ... " but who'd miss NYC or DC per se? Scott Vernon wrote: not me. could we put San Fran on the list, also? Agreed. But just get rid of them? We should see if we could trade 'em for, say, Singapore, Rio, and ummm... trying to think of another big city I've liked... Sydney. Oz seems to think it's perfect. It's pretty bloody close as capital cities go. Great. We'll take it. How does Miami sound in trade? We'll give you Ceduna for Miami. No we bloody well won't, you damn' ex-Sydney rat parasitising the poor green Tasmanian innocents. It'd ruin the fishing. Might offer Marla Bore roadhouse, though. -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Faint echoes, sometimes inaudible, of the newsgroup's glorious past are downloadable at http://music.download.com/internetopera |
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