"DSK" wrote in message
...
Walt wrote:
[snip]

The thing to remember is that the relative angle of the sail to the boat
is what's important. Always look up past the boom... the top batten is a
good indicator...

Could you expand on this, please?


[snip]

So I view the traveler as a way to depower when beating in higher winds.

Right... the traveller lets the main out without letting the upper
section get all floppy. The important thing here is that easing the
traveller instead of the sheet keeps the twist constant, and for
fractional rigs and/or backstayless rigs (like dinghies) it keeps the
jib luff tension more consistant.

Understood!




Pulling the boom all the way to the centerline is probably over trimming
in most situations, so letting the traveler down was likely an
improvement, even if you let it down too far.

I dunno, lots of keelboats can carry the boom at or slightly above
centerline. Depends on the conditions and what he was trying to do. If
the boat's not overpowered then letting the traveller down is probably
not the thing to do.

Hmmmm....

At the weekend, on our final leg with 15 kts(T) forward of the beam, the
boat *felt* right.

I had the travellor set about 6" below the centreline, and we were sheeted
in hard. Previously, I would have had the travellor *on* the centreline -
or maybe a little above it.


It's odd, but I find the nav, and boat handling a piece of cake. Efficient
sail trim is still a bit of a black art!


Regards


Donal
--

DSK wrote:
Navigator wrote:

It may 'depower', but it would do so at the expense of efficiency by
closing the leech.


Or, on the other hand, it may not close the leach.

All sails are not cut the same, all rigs do not respond the same.

... The best way to bend the mast is with backstay

tension.


Depends on the rig.

This will flatten the sail without closing the leech. To depower you
really need the leech to open and use a Cunningham to help flatten.


The cunningham does nothing to flatten the sail. The cunningham pulls
draft forward.

Once again your advice is a worthless mish-mash of overgeneralization &
misinformation. It's kind of like insisting that you were in Boston, and
know all about it, when you were actually in Baltimore.


Well of course your must me right Doug 'cos Melges and poor old Nav
know nothing:

Melges:

Cunningham: Remove all horizontal wrinkles, in the heavier puffs pull
very hard to bend the mast which will flatten the sail and twist open
the top batten


Back to school for you Doug. Bwhahahhahahahah

Cheers

DSK wrote:

Walt wrote:

I don't know that I am either, but here's my $.02:

Most of the time you just set the traveler in the middle, and trim the
mainsheet as needed. With the traveler in the middle, sheeting the
sail all the way in brings the boom to the centerline - probably over
trimmed for most situations, so it's rare to sheet in all the way when
the traveler is in the middle.


Somewhat agreed, but you're not going to centerline the boom with the
traveler in the middle. Even if the sheet is pulled very tight, you'll
have to pull the traveller up at least a little bit to get the boom on
centerline.


Glad to see you're learning from me Doug.

Cheers

Navigator wrote:
Melges:

Cunningham: Remove all horizontal wrinkles, in the heavier puffs pull
very hard to bend the mast which will flatten the sail and twist open
the top batten

???

Bending the mast with the cunningham... on monohulls with more or less
conventional rigs... is a new one on me. Cats use what is basically a
very powerful cunningham to bend the mast, but their rigs are very
different.



Back to school for you Doug. Bwhahahhahahahah

Yep. Always something new to learn... that's one of the differences
between me & you, Navvie... I am learning new stuff all the time, you
are convinced you already know everything. Maybe you got so smart from
watching TV, like Boobsie?

DSK

On Thu, 27 May 2004 12:02:09 +1200, something compelled Navigator
, to say:

Cunningham: Remove all horizontal wrinkles, in the heavier puffs pull
very hard to bend the mast which will flatten the sail and twist open
the top batten

I thought the purpose of a cunningham was to tension the luff
past what is possible with just the halyard. Sounds like
something you'd do in high wind.

DSK wrote:

Navigator wrote:

Melges:

Cunningham: Remove all horizontal wrinkles, in the heavier puffs pull
very hard to bend the mast which will flatten the sail and twist open
the top batten


???

Bending the mast with the cunningham... on monohulls with more or less
conventional rigs... is a new one on me. Cats use what is basically a
very powerful cunningham to bend the mast, but their rigs are very
different.


But a good dinghy sailor should have known this. Regardless of what you
may say, the cunnignham will always flatten the sail.


Back to school for you Doug. Bwhahahhahahahah


Yep. Always something new to learn... that's one of the differences
between me & you, Navvie... I am learning new stuff all the time, you
are convinced you already know everything. Maybe you got so smart from
watching TV, like Boobsie?


You are such a bad loser.

Cheers

Steve Daniels, Seek of Spam wrote:

On Thu, 27 May 2004 12:02:09 +1200, something compelled Navigator
, to say:


Cunningham: Remove all horizontal wrinkles, in the heavier puffs pull
very hard to bend the mast which will flatten the sail and twist open
the top batten


I thought the purpose of a cunningham was to tension the luff
past what is possible with just the halyard. Sounds like
something you'd do in high wind.

Yes, it also helps control draft (as Doug said) which on older and
(especially on) non-high tech sails has the nasty habit of moving aft a
lot as wind load increases


Cheers.

Navigator wrote:
But a good dinghy sailor should have known this. Regardless of what you
may say, the cunnignham will always flatten the sail.

Not that I've ever seen or heard before. One quote, out of context,
doesn't prove anything. OTOH maybe cunninghams work differently down there?


You are such a bad loser.

Not really. It's just that you are so desperate to prove you "know"
something... anything...

When you figure out the difference between Baltimore & Boston, let us
know, OK?

DSK

OzOne wrote:
Wouldn't want to try bending the mast with cunningham on Navvys boat.

Careful, Oz, next he'll be calling you a sore loser!

I wonder if you should adjust the runners before bending the mast with
the cunningham?

DSK

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Wed, 26 May 2004 22:55:10 +0100, "Donal"
scribbled thusly:


"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Walt wrote:
[snip]

The thing to remember is that the relative angle of the sail to the
boat
is what's important. Always look up past the boom... the top batten is
a
good indicator...

Could you expand on this, please?


Donal. if you go here
http://www.northsailsod.com/class/et...ls_tuning.html

There's a pretty good outline of our tuning procedure.

Thanks. I've read it ... and I'll read it again.


Look at the chart for mainsail tune and note that we rely a lot on top
batten to indicate position of the leech on the rest of the sail.
Closed leech will help us climb in anything above light air up to a
fresh breeze.
In light it's laid off to promote flow and reduce stalling, Heavy it's
open to ease leech pressure.

BTW this is a North guide, my setup is a little different.
Note just how finicky the Etchells is to setup and YES, we do change
the entire rig setup every race.

That web page gave me the impression that you had to adjust the mast rake
*during* some races!!

Regards


Donal
--