I had an interesting sail today, and I thought that I should share it.
During the last six months I've picked up various tips from the posters
here. I've been waiting for a chance to try out the suggestions.

HW was at 15:30, so we were a bit limited in our choice of destinations. We
decided to go to Wooton Creek for lunch.


Normally, this would have involved a 75 minute sail there, and a 75 minute
sail back.

There wasn't much wind for the outward journey. We had 8 kts and, as usual
it was on the nose!!!

Fortunately, we had departed early, so we sailed for a while. We made
between 1.5 and 3 kts. I played with the travellor position. I set it much
lower than I used to. I can report that we didn't go any slower.

On the way home, we decided to try the spinaker. There was 8 kts of wind
when we started to rig the boat. By the time that we had the spinaker
lines rigged, the wind had risen to 15 kts. It had also shifted direction
..... big time! We decided to try the spin anyway. So we spent an hour
sailing in *slightly* the wrong direction. Eventually, we took the
spinaker in, and set course for home. The wind was now just off the nose!!
We had a fantastic beat home for the last hour.

Regards


Donal
--

What kind of boat were you sailing?

EdGordonRN wrote:
What kind of boat were you sailing?
Beneteau First 337.

http://www.lanode.com/priv/setanta/


Regards


Donal
--

Donal wrote:

There wasn't much wind for the outward journey. We had 8 kts and, as usual
it was on the nose!!!

Fortunately, we had departed early, so we sailed for a while. We made
between 1.5 and 3 kts. I played with the travellor position. I set it much
lower than I used to. I can report that we didn't go any slower.

Why would you want to set the traveller lower? That's usually done to
depower the main, which doesn't seem to be what you were after.

I can understand travelling the main down in a drifter to flatten the
sail, but 8kts shouldn't be low enough that you would want to flatten -
seems to me you should be powering up. What gives?

--
//-Walt
//
// http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/040514/matson.gif

Walt wrote:


Why would you want to set the traveller lower? That's usually done to
depower the main, which doesn't seem to be what you were after.

I can understand travelling the main down in a drifter to flatten the
sail, but 8kts shouldn't be low enough that you would want to flatten -
seems to me you should be powering up. What gives?


I'm not very good at sail trim.

During the winter, there was some discussion here about travellor
position. It seems that I have been setting it too high. I've been
looking forward to doing some trials. However, it isn't easy in a 32 ft
boat in the Solent - the boat is too slow to respond, and the wind is
too variable. I used to set the travellor above the centreline, so that
the boom was actually on the centreline. Yesterday, I dropped the
travellor to about 4 inches below th c/l.

Also, the 8kts was the true wind speed, so we had about 10 over the deck.


Regards


Donal
--

Donal wrote:
Walt wrote:

Why would you want to set the traveller lower? That's usually done to
depower the main, which doesn't seem to be what you were after.

I can understand travelling the main down in a drifter to flatten the
sail, but 8kts shouldn't be low enough that you would want to flatten -
seems to me you should be powering up. What gives?

I'm not very good at sail trim.

I don't know that I am either, but here's my $.02:

Most of the time you just set the traveler in the middle, and trim the
mainsheet as needed. With the traveler in the middle, sheeting the
sail all the way in brings the boom to the centerline - probably over
trimmed for most situations, so it's rare to sheet in all the way when
the traveler is in the middle.

With the traveler let down somewhat ( a dozen cm for a dinghy,more for
a boat your size) as you sheet in hard the boom doesn't come all the
way to the centerline - it only comes in as far as the traveler
position. At that point, sheeting in harder doesn't pull the boom in
- it pulls it down, flattening the mainsail, bending the mast, and
depowering the rig.

So I view the traveler as a way to depower when beating in higher winds.


During the winter, there was some discussion here about travellor
position. It seems that I have been setting it too high. I've been
looking forward to doing some trials. However, it isn't easy in a 32 ft
boat in the Solent - the boat is too slow to respond, and the wind is
too variable. I used to set the travellor above the centreline, so that
the boom was actually on the centreline. Yesterday, I dropped the
travellor to about 4 inches below th c/l.

Pulling the boom all the way to the centerline is probably over
trimming in most situations, so letting the traveler down was likely
an improvement, even if you let it down too far. That said, we're
probably talking about speed differences of a boat-length or two per
mile - vitally important if you're racing, irrelevant if you're not.

Also, the 8kts was the true wind speed, so we had about 10 over the deck.

8 kts is borderline planing conditions for me. Not light air at all.
Much more (well, twice as much) and effective depowering is the
difference between staying upright and going for a swim.


--
// Walt
//
// There is no Volkl Conspiracy

Walt wrote:

Donal wrote:

Walt wrote:


Why would you want to set the traveller lower? That's usually done to
depower the main, which doesn't seem to be what you were after.

I can understand travelling the main down in a drifter to flatten the
sail, but 8kts shouldn't be low enough that you would want to flatten -
seems to me you should be powering up. What gives?

I'm not very good at sail trim.


I don't know that I am either, but here's my $.02:

Most of the time you just set the traveler in the middle, and trim the
mainsheet as needed. With the traveler in the middle, sheeting the
sail all the way in brings the boom to the centerline - probably over
trimmed for most situations, so it's rare to sheet in all the way when
the traveler is in the middle.

With the traveler let down somewhat ( a dozen cm for a dinghy,more for a
boat your size) as you sheet in hard the boom doesn't come all the way
to the centerline - it only comes in as far as the traveler position.
At that point, sheeting in harder doesn't pull the boom in - it pulls it
down, flattening the mainsail, bending the mast, and depowering the rig.

My 2c

It may 'depower', but it would do so at the expense of efficiency by
closing the leech. The best way to bend the mast is with backstay
tension. This will flatten the sail without closing the leech. To
depower you really need the leech to open and use a Cunningham to help
flatten. Think of the traveller as being used to help control the leech
and it works in harmony with the mainsheet. Once the traveller
adjustment is all used up you really need the vang to help control the
leech. I suggest you should only bring the boom to centerline if you
have correct twist and then the traveller will be generally above
centerine a bit (I'm assuming well cut sails).

Cheers

Navigator wrote:
It may 'depower', but it would do so at the expense of efficiency by
closing the leech.

Or, on the other hand, it may not close the leach.

All sails are not cut the same, all rigs do not respond the same.

... The best way to bend the mast is with backstay
tension.

Depends on the rig.

This will flatten the sail without closing the leech. To
depower you really need the leech to open and use a Cunningham to help
flatten.

The cunningham does nothing to flatten the sail. The cunningham pulls
draft forward.

Once again your advice is a worthless mish-mash of overgeneralization &
misinformation. It's kind of like insisting that you were in Boston, and
know all about it, when you were actually in Baltimore.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Walt wrote:
I don't know that I am either, but here's my $.02:

Most of the time you just set the traveler in the middle, and trim the
mainsheet as needed. With the traveler in the middle, sheeting the
sail all the way in brings the boom to the centerline - probably over
trimmed for most situations, so it's rare to sheet in all the way when
the traveler is in the middle.

Somewhat agreed, but you're not going to centerline the boom with the
traveler in the middle. Even if the sheet is pulled very tight, you'll
have to pull the traveller up at least a little bit to get the boom on
centerline.

The thing to remember is that the relative angle of the sail to the boat
is what's important. Always look up past the boom... the top batten is a
good indicator...


With the traveler let down somewhat ( a dozen cm for a dinghy,more for a
boat your size) as you sheet in hard the boom doesn't come all the way
to the centerline - it only comes in as far as the traveler position.
At that point, sheeting in harder doesn't pull the boom in - it pulls it
down, flattening the mainsail, bending the mast, and depowering the rig.

So I view the traveler as a way to depower when beating in higher winds.

Right... the traveller lets the main out without letting the upper
section get all floppy. The important thing here is that easing the
traveller instead of the sheet keeps the twist constant, and for
fractional rigs and/or backstayless rigs (like dinghies) it keeps the
jib luff tension more consistant.


Pulling the boom all the way to the centerline is probably over trimming
in most situations, so letting the traveler down was likely an
improvement, even if you let it down too far.

I dunno, lots of keelboats can carry the boom at or slightly above
centerline. Depends on the conditions and what he was trying to do. If
the boat's not overpowered then letting the traveller down is probably
not the thing to do.

... That said, we're probably
talking about speed differences of a boat-length or two per mile -
vitally important if you're racing, irrelevant if you're not.

I disagree... especially if pointing is an issue. The difference in
speed can be large, and with the effect on pointing, the difference VMG
to windward can be huge... several minutes per mile.


Also, the 8kts was the true wind speed, so we had about 10 over the deck.


8 kts is borderline planing conditions for me. Not light air at all.
Much more (well, twice as much) and effective depowering is the
difference between staying upright and going for a swim.

Here's where it's important to know the individual characteristics of
the boat. Walt, you're singlehanding an Albacore? I don't know much
about Donal's boat, I have raced a Beneteau First 34/7.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Walt wrote:
[snip]

The thing to remember is that the relative angle of the sail to the boat
is what's important. Always look up past the boom... the top batten is a
good indicator...

Could you expand on this, please?


[snip]

So I view the traveler as a way to depower when beating in higher winds.

Right... the traveller lets the main out without letting the upper
section get all floppy. The important thing here is that easing the
traveller instead of the sheet keeps the twist constant, and for
fractional rigs and/or backstayless rigs (like dinghies) it keeps the
jib luff tension more consistant.

Understood!




Pulling the boom all the way to the centerline is probably over trimming
in most situations, so letting the traveler down was likely an
improvement, even if you let it down too far.

I dunno, lots of keelboats can carry the boom at or slightly above
centerline. Depends on the conditions and what he was trying to do. If
the boat's not overpowered then letting the traveller down is probably
not the thing to do.

Hmmmm....

At the weekend, on our final leg with 15 kts(T) forward of the beam, the
boat *felt* right.

I had the travellor set about 6" below the centreline, and we were sheeted
in hard. Previously, I would have had the travellor *on* the centreline -
or maybe a little above it.


It's odd, but I find the nav, and boat handling a piece of cake. Efficient
sail trim is still a bit of a black art!


Regards


Donal
--