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Marina Woes
gets
the money, then the marina owner raises everybody's fees to cover that cost So what you are saying is that everybody should feel obligated to get out of their slip for a few weeks so the poor marina owner can get some extra rent for the slips he already rented. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
Marina Woes
They play the 'hokey pokey' at weddings you go to?
Cheers katysails wrote: MC posed: But would one want to? At a wedding? You'd be the odd duck out if you didn't.... |
Marina Woes
MC asked: They play the 'hokey pokey' at weddings you go to?
The average wedding in the US consists of a DJ spinning a record selection chosen by the bridal couple which most always includes the "Hokie Pokie" "Chicken Dance" "Macarena" "YMCA" and all kinds of polkas and stuff that all ages can get up and be silly about....Live music is very expensive and wedding receptions that have dull entertainment had better have a lot of booze to compensate....That's not to say that there aren't sophisticated weddings where children are not allowed and where everyone sits around sipping theoir champagne politely, but given the choice, most people opt for fun rahter than sophisticated....Weddings are for the most part family parties. Most around here gear their parties to the family having fun. -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
Marina Woes
Weddings are big ripoffs with the providers of the goods and services taking
advantage of the fact that it's the brides big day and also the fact it's become the accepted practice. Go to the same "hall" and price a meeting. Call the florist and photographer and get a price for the same services to be provided telling them it's not a wedding. I hope my 2 girls ask for a downpayment on a house instead of a big wedding. I don't care what my son does if he ever gets married. Tee hee. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
Marina Woes
"SAIL LOCO" wrote: Weddings are big ripoffs with the providers of the goods and services taking advantage .............................. ..................................... I hope my 2 girls ask for a downpayment on a house instead of a big wedding. If you'd a raised them girls right they'd elope and get their own damn house. Jeez... Seahag |
Marina Woes
"Dave" wrote: (SAIL LOCO) said: That might be true but the person leasing the slip should get the money not the lanlord. It all depends on how you think costs should be allocated. If the person licensing the slip (I think it's usually a license rather than a lease) gets the money, then the marina owner raises everybody's fees to cover that cost plus the added overhead of processing the payments. So the folks who don't vacate their slips for a period of time end up paying for those who do. Don't know that either solution is "right." Huh????? I pay "X" dollars a month. I'm gonna be out of 'My' slip for 4 days. I would like a friend to use it for 2 days. I'm on personally metered electric. Where do there "costs" to the landlord come in?? Seahag |
Marina Woes
Huh????? I pay "X" dollars a month. I'm gonna be out of 'My' slip for 4
days. I would like a friend to use it for 2 days. So when are you comming out of the water and have you found a friend yet? S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
Marina Woes
katysails wrote: Most around here gear their parties to the family having fun. Doug would not agree... Cheers |
Marina Woes
LOCO stated:
Weddings are big ripoffs Inly if you buy into the crap...you can have a lovely wedding without spending 1000's of dollars..you just have to plan carefully. -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
Marina Woes
Haggie said: Huh????? I pay "X" dollars a month. I'm gonna be out of 'My'
slip for 4 days Here's the problem: It is not "your" slip. Their take is that it is THEIR slip and they are letting you use it for X amount of dollars.....You being there is through the grace of God and their benevolence....So when you're not there, they feel they have the right to "use" their slip....that's the current philosophy around here, at any rate... -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
Marina Woes
Horvath stated: At my yacht club, the hall is free for members to use.
Ours, too. -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
Marina Woes
MC implied:
Doug would not agree... Yes, he would...and I bet he knows how to do the Chicken Dance, too... -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
Marina Woes
On 2 Jun 2004 09:52:12 -0500, Dave wrote:
On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 21:37:36 -0400, "Seahag" said: Huh????? I pay "X" dollars a month. I'm gonna be out of 'My' slip for 4 days. I would like a friend to use it for 2 days. I'm on personally metered electric. Where do there "costs" to the landlord come in?? He currently isn't paying you for those 2 days. If he has to pay you for the two days, that's a cost in anybody's book. If he has no transient to occupy the slip, there's no cost. If he does have a transient to occupy the slip, the loss of what he'd get, is a cost. In an accounting sense, I suppose, it's booked as lower revenue rather than increased expense, but the effect on his bottom line is the same. Dave S/V Good Fortune CS27 If Haggie is paying for the "use" of the slip for 30 days, then it seems reasonable that she should have the use of it, to occupy or allow a friend to temporarily occupy it in her absense. If the marina is double dipping by charging someone else for time in the slip that Haggie has paid for, then it seems only equitable that Haggie should be credited for some/most of the net additional revenue from the transient "guest". Obviously the slip agreement actually governs what happens, but it sounds like it was drafted as a greedy "hooray me, screw you" document. I don't know how the "personally metered electric" works when a transient is in the slip. In my case, there is one meter per slip and I pay for the electric usage. Hopefully Haggie isn't having to pay for the electricity usage of transients occupying her slip while she is away while not receiving any credit for the marina's "windfall". Sounds like Republican policies are behind it:) |
Marina Woes
felton wrote:
If Haggie is paying for the "use" of the slip for 30 days, then it seems reasonable that she should have the use of it, to occupy or allow a friend to temporarily occupy it in her absense. If the marina is double dipping by charging someone else for time in the slip that Haggie has paid for, then it seems only equitable that Haggie should be credited for some/most of the net additional revenue from the transient "guest". Yes, very much so. Most marinas I know of have a prohibition against sub-letting in slip rental/lease agreements. Under one of these, Haggie could't rent out her slip to transients and pocket the money, but if no money changes hands.... ... Obviously the slip agreement actually governs what happens, but it sounds like it was drafted as a greedy "hooray me, screw you" document. yep. It's always wise to read the fine print. Side note- this kind of contract seems more and more common. A few weeks ago I went onto a new facility and was told that before we started any work, we all had to individually sign these "release forms." The "release forms" turned out to be liability/indemnity contracts wherein the owner of the facility was not only holding our individual workers liable for damage to any machinry, but for the whole cost and for lost operating time as well... also holding us responsible for anything "missing" while we're on site. Needless to say, I pointed out to the site engineer that we were already there as the low bidder and this was rather a stupid way to do business. He agreed that we didn't have to sign it and we got him back on line. I don't know how the "personally metered electric" works when a transient is in the slip. In my case, there is one meter per slip and I pay for the electric usage. Hopefully Haggie isn't having to pay for the electricity usage of transients occupying her slip while she is away while not receiving any credit for the marina's "windfall". Transients? Shucks, I have to keep an eye out for slip neighbors, workers, and RVs in the parking lot plugging into our metered electric. Sounds like Republican policies are behind it:) I dunno about Republican, but it greedy & stupid is no way to go through life (to coin a phrase). Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
Marina Woes
"SAIL LOCO" wrote: Huh????? I pay "X" dollars a month. I'm gonna be out of 'My' slip for 4 days. I would like a friend to use it for 2 days. So when are you comming out of the water and have you found a friend yet? I'm hauling out next week. Maybe you missed my post about the $60 per night transient rate Allsopp wants? If you feel like dealing with him I'll ask him and e-mail you. Seahag |
Marina Woes
"DSK" wrote:. felton wrote: I don't know how the "personally metered electric" works when a transient is in the slip. In my case, there is one meter per slip and I pay for the electric usage. Hopefully Haggie isn't having to pay for the electricity usage of transients occupying her slip while she is away while not receiving any credit for the marina's "windfall". Transients? Shucks, I have to keep an eye out for slip neighbors, workers, and RVs in the parking lot plugging into our metered electric. We turn off the breaker and lock the box. When we had the wooden boat we were never sure how long we'd be gone so we kept it vague..."we'll be back next week...". If he ever did rent the slip I never saw a dime of it and paid my monthly rent just the same. Seahag |
Marina Woes
On 2 Jun 2004 11:52:13 -0500, Dave wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 12:27:52 -0400, DSK said: If Haggie is paying for the "use" of the slip for 30 days, then it seems reasonable that she should have the use of it, to occupy or allow a friend to temporarily occupy it in her absense. The easiest way to get the desired answer to a question is to assume the answer in posing the question. She's paying for whatever the contract says she's paying for. Unless the contract's poorly drafted, it will probably say she's paying for being allowed to use the slip for docking a specific vessel. Of course both she and the marina owner are presumably consenting adults, and if they want to provide that she's paying for being allowed to use the slip to dock whatever vessel she wants in there, the answer would be different. Dave S/V Good Fortune CS27 I am not surprised that you view it that way. Those of us not blessed with a "legal" background tend to view things in terms of reasonableness, fairness and equity. It would seem obvious that Haggie's slip agreement was a one-sided document ignoring those basics tenets, which may be a delight to someone in your profession, but which ultimately leads most of the rest of us to view your profession with disdain. For you to assume that if Haggie's slip is not continually "double booked" it is somehow a "cost" to marina is interesting in an absurd sort of way. Hopefully Haggie is not also paying for "time on the hard" if it is at the same marina, or that really would be adding insult to injury. As I sail on a lake where we have no real issue with transients, this is not an issue for me at this time. I have heard that there are at least two lawsuits threatened or ongoing at my marina relating to the prohibition of outside labor and the overbilling for electricity. I guess we will see where that goes. |
Marina Woes
I'm hauling out next week. Maybe you missed my post about the $60 per night
transient rate Allsopp wants? If you feel like dealing with him I'll ask him and e-mail you. Don't bother. $60 to park a 30' boat that requires no elect. overnight is nuts. I only pay $1.50 at Osprey Point in Rock Hall. A beautiful marina. I thought it was yours and you could do what you wanted. Your right, I missed your post. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
Marina Woes
Those of us not blessed
with a "legal" background tend to view things in terms of reasonableness, fairness and equity. ROFLMAO.................. I can only assume you typed that with your tongue stuck to your cheek. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
Marina Woes
I think what I am going to do this fall is when I have my boat hauled I'm going
to take my Avon down to the marina and put it in my slip. If the owner says anything like "I had a boat that wanted to spend the winter here" I'm going to just say I thought it was mine for the year and I plan on doing some rowing over the winter. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
Marina Woes
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Marina Woes
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 12:27:52 -0400, DSK wrote:
felton wrote: If Haggie is paying for the "use" of the slip for 30 days, then it seems reasonable that she should have the use of it, to occupy or allow a friend to temporarily occupy it in her absense. If the marina is double dipping by charging someone else for time in the slip that Haggie has paid for, then it seems only equitable that Haggie should be credited for some/most of the net additional revenue from the transient "guest". Yes, very much so. Most marinas I know of have a prohibition against sub-letting in slip rental/lease agreements. Under one of these, Haggie could't rent out her slip to transients and pocket the money, but if no money changes hands.... Then again, we are talking about what makes sense, which, as Lawyer Dave points out, has nothing to do with legal documents. ... Obviously the slip agreement actually governs what happens, but it sounds like it was drafted as a greedy "hooray me, screw you" document. yep. It's always wise to read the fine print. The devil is always in the details:) My marina won't allow outside workers to work on boats. It is a nice way to develop and maintain a monopoly. I vaguely recall that they used to assert some right to collect a commission on boats sold at the marina even if they were not brokering the sale, but that seems to have disappeared into the mists of antiquity. The major problem I have is that I sail on a Corps of Engineers lake, where there is almost no opportunity for a competitor to open a new facility, while at the same time the Corps has allowed one individual to essentially capture such a majority of the slips on the lake that we are captive to his ever increasing rates. Oh well, what is a publicly owned and funded asset for if not to permit the public to be fleeced by private interests?:) Side note- this kind of contract seems more and more common. A few weeks ago I went onto a new facility and was told that before we started any work, we all had to individually sign these "release forms." The "release forms" turned out to be liability/indemnity contracts wherein the owner of the facility was not only holding our individual workers liable for damage to any machinry, but for the whole cost and for lost operating time as well... also holding us responsible for anything "missing" while we're on site. Needless to say, I pointed out to the site engineer that we were already there as the low bidder and this was rather a stupid way to do business. He agreed that we didn't have to sign it and we got him back on line. I don't know how the "personally metered electric" works when a transient is in the slip. In my case, there is one meter per slip and I pay for the electric usage. Hopefully Haggie isn't having to pay for the electricity usage of transients occupying her slip while she is away while not receiving any credit for the marina's "windfall". Transients? Shucks, I have to keep an eye out for slip neighbors, workers, and RVs in the parking lot plugging into our metered electric. Sounds like Republican policies are behind it:) I dunno about Republican, but it greedy & stupid is no way to go through life (to coin a phrase). I'll accept that expansion of my description:) Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
Marina Woes
,My marina won't allow outside
workers to work on boats. It is a nice way to develop and maintain a monopoly. Do they have experts on the payroll for anything that might come up. Many marinas have a bunch of min. wage bottom scrubbers that "learn" fiberglass repair, electrical work, etc. on your boat. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
Marina Woes
On 2 Jun 2004 15:31:04 -0500, Dave wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 17:10:44 GMT, felton said: I am not surprised that you view it that way. Those of us not blessed with a "legal" background tend to view things in terms of reasonableness, fairness and equity. It would seem obvious that Haggie's slip agreement was a one-sided document ignoring those basics tenets, As I said in an earlier post, I'm not persuaded that there is any "right" answer to the question in terms of fairness. Your conclusion is that it's fairer for all the slip users, including those who are never gone, to bear the cost of remitting the rental to the person holding the slip. Maybe, but I don't see why. One thing you can be sure of--it ain't gonna be the marina operator who bears the cost. Not if he intends to stay in business. Dave S/V Good Fortune CS27 Can anyone else take pity on me and explain what "cost" Dave is referring to? |
Marina Woes
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Marina Woes
Dave said: I went to one earlier this year where there was not only a band
for the dance floor, but a sting quintet playing before the ceremony and in the dining room during dinner. The bride's poor parents had only a few million, but I understand the groom's billionaire parents were paying a good part of the freight. It's ok if you've gotrocks, but most of us haven't...so rather than having a bunch of 3rd chair violinists from the local junior college squawking out Bach, much better to pay for a fun accordion band and at least get your money's worth sweating on the dance floor.... -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
Marina Woes
"SAIL LOCO" wrote: I'm hauling out next week. Maybe you missed my post about the $60 per night transient rate Allsopp wants? If you feel like dealing with him I'll ask him and e-mail you. Don't bother. $60 to park a 30' boat that requires no elect. overnight is nuts. And therein lies one of my peeves! Seahag |
Marina Woes
On 2 Jun 2004 17:35:04 -0500, Dave wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 20:43:02 GMT, felton said: Can anyone else take pity on me and explain what "cost" Dave is referring to? Dave S/V Good Fortune CS27 That made no sense to me the first time, but hey, I have only been a CPA for 30 years. |
Marina Woes
On 2 Jun 2004 17:42:08 -0500, Dave wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 20:50:02 GMT, felton said: it seems a bit of a gouge to have to pay the $1,500 for a bottom job involving a couple of gallons on bottom paint. If you do it yourself, how many hours do you spend in sanding and other bottom prep before starting to put on the paint? How long to put on the paint? Dave S/V Good Fortune CS27 One to two days, start to finish at a leisurely pace. Does anyone else get the impression that Dave owns a marina?:) |
Marina Woes
katysails wrote: MC implied: Doug would not agree... Yes, he would...and I bet he knows how to do the Chicken Dance, too... You know I think you are right about the chicken dance but his (lack of) coordination would lead him to hate making a fool of himself while trying to waggle his arms in time to the music! It's the only explanation of his dislike of weddings! Cheers |
Marina Woes
katysails wrote: sweating on the dance floor.... I though sailors were fighting on the dance floor? Cheers |
Marina Woes
On 2 Jun 2004 18:08:15 -0500, Dave wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jun 2004 22:52:45 GMT, felton said: That made no sense to me the first time, but hey, I have only been a CPA for 30 years. Ah, that explains it. I take it you do understand "revenue from sales" and "net income?" And that all other things being equal reducing the first also reduces the second? Dave S/V Good Fortune CS27 Sure...I understand that concept. I guess I just fail to understand how depriving the marina operator from double dipping is creating a "cost". Along those lines, would you mind if I slept with your wife while you are away from the house?:) I am just trying to keep your "costs" in line. |
Marina Woes
MC asked: I though sailors were fighting on the dance floor?
Depends on what dance you're doing....or if you get into one of those "whp's leading?" situations.....(mr sails can't dance and count at the same time....sometimes he needs "guidance"...) -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
Marina Woes
On 2 Jun 2004 18:11:11 -0500, something compelled Dave
, to say: On 02 Jun 2004 17:47:10 GMT, (SAIL LOCO) said: $60 to park a 30' boat that requires no elect. overnight is nuts. A piker. IIRC we paid $3.00 a foot in Newport last summer. Ninety bucks? The last time I tied up as a transient boat, I paid eight. And that's because I was honest and told the owners I had been there all night. Pulling in the lines and leaving was an option, but I like my karma points. |
Marina Woes
A piker. IIRC we paid $3.00 a foot in Newport last summer.
Well I would consider that foolish. I would have anchored out and got a hotel room for that kind of money. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
Marina Woes
Not at all. I just happen to recognize that those concepts are
foreign to those in the legal profession.. I'm sorry I missread your oeiginal post. Your right. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
Marina Woes
They also have had a long-standing prohibition against a boat
owner doing any bottom work The day I can't park at a marina that allows me to work on my own boat is the day I sell the boat. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
Marina Woes
In article ,
wrote: On 2 Jun 2004 20:02:07 -0500, Dave wrote: On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 00:25:42 GMT, said: That's actually not bad these days in hot spots around the LIS. Many are $4 a foot, and several are starting to require 2 or 3 day minimums Which ones are those? I'll try to avoid them. It's rapidly getting to the point where you can't avoid them. That's the way things are headed. Last time I looked, most boats came with those funny bottom-holding devices called 'anchors'. Judicious use of which obviates the need to use marinas, thereby saving money for food & drink. PDW |
Marina Woes
I've spent quite a bit of time in Newport a while back and like any other
decent size city there are plenty of hotel rooms in all price ranges. You could have walked a few blocks and stayed at a Holiday Inn for example for a little over ninety bucks. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "No shirt, no skirt, full service" |
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