A question of seamanship?
 

DSK wrote:
Walt wrote:
I know!!! I know!!!

These guys are just fooling around with ropes when they should be
critiquing a 10 year old picture of a Lightning regatta.

What do I win?

Aw c'mon Walt, it's only about eight years old.

Are you talking about the picture, or the level of discourse?

--
//-Walt
//
// Sigs suck. Oh, the irony.

A question of seamanship?
 

Will add my two cents to otn's.
Whether or not there was any strain on the lines, having the feet in the area
between the lines run and bulwarks especially as in the picture, is not a good
idea.
We all do it and normally get away with it, but it's the one time that proves
the value of always watching where we stand, and standing in a "hole" as otn
describes it, is a situation to be avoided.

Shen

A question of seamanship?
 

Shen44 wrote:
Will add my two cents to otn's.
Whether or not there was any strain on the lines, having the feet in the area
between the lines run and bulwarks especially as in the picture, is not a good
idea.
We all do it and normally get away with it, but it's the one time that proves
the value of always watching where we stand, and standing in a "hole" as otn
describes it, is a situation to be avoided.

Agreed. However, it does not seem to me that it applies to this picture,
as nobody is between a line under strain and a solid part of the boat.

primitive ASCII diagram, Xs represent people, [ is the bulwark, __) is
the line around the samson post
[
[ X
[____
[ __)
[ X
[

But I am definitely interested in learning. Given the layout of the
foredeck in the picture, where do you suggest the crew place themselves
when working lines?

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...93692203gOXLkd

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

A question of seamanship?
 

DSK wrote:
Shen44 wrote:

Will add my two cents to otn's.
Whether or not there was any strain on the lines, having the feet in
the area
between the lines run and bulwarks especially as in the picture, is
not a good
idea.
We all do it and normally get away with it, but it's the one time that
proves
the value of always watching where we stand, and standing in a "hole"
as otn
describes it, is a situation to be avoided.


Agreed. However, it does not seem to me that it applies to this picture,
as nobody is between a line under strain and a solid part of the boat.

I think we all agree that in this picture there is no real strain on
these lines. However the point I'm trying to make is that you never want
to put yourself in a position that has a potential to cause injury
during conditions where there IS strain ... i.e., practice positioning
yourself around lines, safely at all times.

primitive ASCII diagram, Xs represent people, [ is the bulwark, __) is
the line around the samson post
[
[ X
[____
[ __)
[ X
[

But I am definitely interested in learning. Given the layout of the
foredeck in the picture, where do you suggest the crew place themselves
when working lines?

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...93692203gOXLkd

Fresh Breezes- Doug King



[ X' X"
[ X' X"
[ \ /
[______.)
[
[

g Same crude drawing ... X' would be best, X" would be a potential or
combination of the two, depending on what you need and cleats or bitts
for securing the line.
Finding a good place to stand is not always easy and frequently involves
compromises.
I'm trying to point out a potential problem that may not have been a
concern in this particular instance, but could be in others and needs to
be watched for in all cases.

otn

A question of seamanship?
 

otnmbrd wrote:
I'm trying to point out a potential problem that may not have been a
concern in this particular instance, but could be in others and needs to
be watched for in all cases.

Agreed. The diagram was good BTW

Actually, the lines in the pic were under as much strain as two men
sweating them could get; the boat was pulled down several inches and the
dock lines were groaning. However, it was not the kind of strain that
was going to run away with the line. If it had snapped, yes, potential
issue there. Anyway, this weekend we'll take a look at our fore deck &
afterdeck and think a little bit about how to avoid this kind of
exposure in the future.

I learned line safety in the Navy and they take it pretty seriously.
Some years ago I watched (and tried to prevent, as I saw it about to
happen) a man break most of the bones in his hand as a dockline snapped
tight and crushed it against a cockpit coaming.

I was hoping at least one of the hurricane pictures would show the
Tugboat Hitch I had on the samson post for a while.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

A question of seamanship?
 

No strain? What was that about the bow sinking and concrete blocks and
such? What are the lines made of? Is it correct to increase the load on
a mooring beyond that required to tack slack out of lines? If any
surging is expected what may happen if the lines are not nylon and
overly prestressed. As I said, it's all a queation of seamsnhip -think
about it.

Cheers

otnmbrd wrote:



DSK wrote:

Shen44 wrote:

Will add my two cents to otn's.
Whether or not there was any strain on the lines, having the feet in
the area
between the lines run and bulwarks especially as in the picture, is
not a good
idea.
We all do it and normally get away with it, but it's the one time
that proves
the value of always watching where we stand, and standing in a "hole"
as otn
describes it, is a situation to be avoided.



Agreed. However, it does not seem to me that it applies to this
picture, as nobody is between a line under strain and a solid part of
the boat.


I think we all agree that in this picture there is no real strain on
these lines. However the point I'm trying to make is that you never want
to put yourself in a position that has a potential to cause injury
during conditions where there IS strain ... i.e., practice positioning
yourself around lines, safely at all times.


primitive ASCII diagram, Xs represent people, [ is the bulwark, __) is
the line around the samson post
[
[ X
[____
[ __)
[ X
[

But I am definitely interested in learning. Given the layout of the
foredeck in the picture, where do you suggest the crew place
themselves when working lines?

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...93692203gOXLkd

Fresh Breezes- Doug King



[ X' X"
[ X' X"
[ \ /
[______.)
[
[

g Same crude drawing ... X' would be best, X" would be a potential or
combination of the two, depending on what you need and cleats or bitts
for securing the line.
Finding a good place to stand is not always easy and frequently involves
compromises.
I'm trying to point out a potential problem that may not have been a
concern in this particular instance, but could be in others and needs to
be watched for in all cases.

otn

A question of seamanship?
 

Navigator wrote:
No strain?

Only between your ears

... What was that about the bow sinking and concrete blocks and
such?

It is quite straight forward. We put a bundle of four concrete blocks on
the anchor chain, then set the anchor by taking the heaviest strain we
could. Once it was dug in very well, we eased off the lines and
re-adjusted the docklines.

Do you have comment on the chafing gear, which is one of the most
important parts of hurricane preparation?


... What are the lines made of?

I don't know about yours. Ours are nylon.

... Is it correct to increase the load on
a mooring beyond that required to tack slack out of lines?

It is if you're trying to set an anchor.

... If any
surging is expected what may happen if the lines are not nylon and
overly prestressed.

How much surge would you expect in a small canal, above the locks?

... As I said, it's all a queation of seamsnhip -think
about it.

OK, come back & tell us after you've had some time to think, then.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King