Dear Capt Moron,

The cost of a Mac 26M with 50 hp motor is substantially less than 32K
for a fully equipped boat. Nevertheless, however, 32K is a BARGAIN for
a boat of this quality, versatility, capability.

Incidentally, if, as you say, the Mac 26 is only a "cheap plastic piece
of ****" that is "dangerously under rigged," then there must be hundreds
of them that are falling apart every year, right? Since MacGregor has
sold over 30,000 boats, there must be at least 5,000 of them in which
the rigging has come apart in a moderate wind, or in which the boat has
simply self-destructed and sunk. - Right? If it's dangerously under
rigged, the rigging must be coming apart every time they go out in
moderate winds. (Incidentally, Capt, while you are at it, can you
explain to me why the MacGregor boats, with 300 sq ft of sail, need the
same type of standing rigging as boats with 1,500 ft of sail, and a
4,000 - 6,000 lead keel.)

Of the some MacGregor 30,000 boats, how many do you know of that have
failed, or sunk, or fallen apart because of build quality or "cheap
plastic", excluding user error? - 2,000, perhaps? Maybe 1,000?? Surely
you must know of 500, Moron. Ok, if not 500, how about 100? I'm talking
about yearly averages, not anecdotes, by the way.

In other words, can you back up your (libelous) remarks?

Jim



Capt. Mooron wrote:

CRIPES!!!!!!!

I tagged the basics and ended up with a cost of over 32 grand for what
amounts to a dangerously under rigged, cheap plastic piece of **** with the
PHRF rating of a margarine container.

You won't get pussy on that boat unless you have a "As when And Where"
contract with a brothel.

I can't see any major difference between the "X" & "M"......

CM




"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
| Just look at the POS!
| http://www.havencraft.com/Index.asp
|
| A pic is worth a thousand words, in this case all negative.
|
| Scotty
|

Jim Cate wrote:

... Since
MacGregor has sold over 30,000 boats, there must be at least 5,000 of
them in which the rigging has come apart in a moderate wind, or in
which the boat has simply self-destructed and sunk.

I think most mac owners with bad experiences don't want to talk about them,
especially since they're still trying to unload the boat.

We have to rely on witnesses, like this one:

http://www.ybw.com/cgi-bin/forums/sh...b=5&o=93&part=

Macgregor 26 may be ok for an experienced and careful owner. Hear a lot of bad
reports re stability etc. We recorded bad accident on Loch Lomond with one : I
was doing my RNLI water safety bit at the slipway and a guy pulled up with one
on a trailer. He had just hauled it from Southampton too. Anyway, he had had a
good sleep and was fresh to go. He spent three hours with his son, getting her
rigged and I checked his boat for safety and stuff and he launched ok. Next day,
he set off from one of the islands and as he cleared the lee, caught a sudden
blow and because he had his keels either 'up' or empty of water buoyancy, the
whole thing just rolled over and submerged. His kids were down below asleep and
he had left some of his lifejackets at his campsite on the island!! Fortunately,
he was in shallow water and was saved by the inshore fast rescue boat.
Unfortunately, the Mac was wrecked during a later attempted recovery. A long
tale of woe for sure, but boating as we know can be tricky at times. The skipper
did have some experience but he made a mistake which on the Mac 26 proved
terminal. Best advice, buy any boat you like and can afford, but first of all,
get trained by a real expert. There are some on this forum who are professional
instructors and they will probably advise what's best. Happy boating. Safe
people have more fun anyway!! Roy

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
Dear Capt Moron,

The cost of a Mac 26M with 50 hp motor is substantially less than 32K
for a fully equipped boat. Nevertheless, however, 32K is a BARGAIN for
a boat of this quality, versatility, capability.

Incidentally, if, as you say, the Mac 26 is only a "cheap plastic piece
of ****" that is "dangerously under rigged," then there must be hundreds
of them that are falling apart every year, right? Since MacGregor has
sold over 30,000 boats, there must be at least 5,000 of them in which
the rigging has come apart in a moderate wind, or in which the boat has
simply self-destructed and sunk. - Right? If it's dangerously under
rigged, the rigging must be coming apart every time they go out in
moderate winds. (Incidentally, Capt, while you are at it, can you
explain to me why the MacGregor boats, with 300 sq ft of sail, need the
same type of standing rigging as boats with 1,500 ft of sail, and a
4,000 - 6,000 lead keel.)

Of the some MacGregor 30,000 boats, how many do you know of that have
failed, or sunk, or fallen apart because of build quality or "cheap
plastic", excluding user error? - 2,000, perhaps? Maybe 1,000?? Surely
you must know of 500, Moron. Ok, if not 500, how about 100? I'm talking
about yearly averages, not anecdotes, by the way.

In other words, can you back up your (libelous) remarks?

Jim



Capt. Mooron wrote:

CRIPES!!!!!!!

I tagged the basics and ended up with a cost of over 32 grand for what
amounts to a dangerously under rigged, cheap plastic piece of **** with the
PHRF rating of a margarine container.

You won't get pussy on that boat unless you have a "As when And Where"
contract with a brothel.

I can't see any major difference between the "X" & "M"......

CM




"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
| Just look at the POS!
| http://www.havencraft.com/Index.asp
|
| A pic is worth a thousand words, in this case all negative.
|
| Scotty
|

Now Jim, I'm going to tell you a true story, and if you've been lurking here
for as long as you say you have, you know I don't make things up. When we
had our O'Day 27 up for sale, which by the way was a 1976 model...the old
variety, the good variety of O'day, a young couple came to look at the boat.
They sat with us down in the cabin, with very forlorn faces. You see, they
had purchased a brand new Mac26X the previous summer, hated it and couldn't
sell it. They wanted to know if we would trade....needless to say, the
answer was "no". We did not bash their boat, but commiserated with them.
He stated that yes, it was great to motor around in, and that it would get
up and boogie under engine power, but that it stank as a sailboat. There
are several that "sail" on Muskegon Lake...they are not fast...they are not
even mediocre...when they can't get the thing to sail on the wind, they rev
up the engine's to reposition themselves. And that's the truth, whether you
want to admit it or not. Remember, an awful lot of people bought things
like Gremlins, Yugo's and Pacers...and they to went the way of most things
useless.

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

katysails wrote:

Now Jim, I'm going to tell you a true story, and if you've been lurking here
for as long as you say you have, you know I don't make things up. When we
had our O'Day 27 up for sale, which by the way was a 1976 model...the old
variety, the good variety of O'day, a young couple came to look at the boat.
They sat with us down in the cabin, with very forlorn faces. You see, they
had purchased a brand new Mac26X the previous summer, hated it and couldn't
sell it. They wanted to know if we would trade....needless to say, the
answer was "no". We did not bash their boat, but commiserated with them.
He stated that yes, it was great to motor around in, and that it would get
up and boogie under engine power, but that it stank as a sailboat. There
are several that "sail" on Muskegon Lake...they are not fast...they are not
even mediocre...when they can't get the thing to sail on the wind, they rev
up the engine's to reposition themselves. And that's the truth, whether you
want to admit it or not. Remember, an awful lot of people bought things
like Gremlins, Yugo's and Pacers...and they to went the way of most things
useless.

I don't doubt your story. (And it is, after all, an antidote that
doesn't say much about the other 30,000 Mac owners.) But I suspect that
if they were sailing their Mac near the Gulf coast as I will be, instead
of on a lake, there would be plenty of wind to keep them sailing.

I also notice that the contributors to the very active Mac discussion
groups seem as enthusiastic about sailing their boats and racing their
boats as those on any owner group on the net. Some of them have been
sailing their boats for years, and they are still getting great pleasure
from them.

As has also been discussed, those who have sailed the new 26M tell me
that its sailing performance is substantially improved.

Jim

Well, there are a lot of idiots in the world. 30,000 seems like a small
number.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
I don't doubt your story. (And it is, after all, an antidote that
doesn't say much about the other 30,000 Mac owners.) But I suspect that
if they were sailing their Mac near the Gulf coast as I will be, instead
of on a lake, there would be plenty of wind to keep them sailing.

Well, what do you expect them to say... that they got ripped off??

I also notice that the contributors to the very active Mac discussion
groups seem as enthusiastic about sailing their boats and racing their
boats as those on any owner group on the net. Some of them have been
sailing their boats for years, and they are still getting great pleasure
from them.

Sort of like you being "above average" in intelligence?

As has also been discussed, those who have sailed the new 26M tell me
that its sailing performance is substantially improved.

Jim

Jim stupidly assumes:
if they were sailing their Mac near the Gulf coast as I will be, instead
of on a lake, there would be plenty of wind to keep them sailing.

Haven't sailed much on Lake Michigan, have you? I think in all the 26 years
we've been sailing I've seen maybe 3-4 days when there was actually no wind
and if, as you say, you've lurked here for a long while, you will have read
some of the harrowing accounts of the weather systems that plague Lake
Michigan....Muskegon Lake is just the outflow of the Muskegon River where
the marinas are sheltered...the Gulf, weather wise, is not comparable to
Lake Michigan. Lake Michigan is much more difficult to sail....
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

What happened to ''the sea of Mich.''?


"katysails" wrote in message
...
Jim stupidly assumes:
if they were sailing their Mac near the Gulf coast as I will be, instead
of on a lake, there would be plenty of wind to keep them sailing.

Haven't sailed much on Lake Michigan, have you? I think in all the 26
years
we've been sailing I've seen maybe 3-4 days when there was actually no
wind
and if, as you say, you've lurked here for a long while, you will have
read
some of the harrowing accounts of the weather systems that plague Lake
Michigan....Muskegon Lake is just the outflow of the Muskegon River where
the marinas are sheltered...the Gulf, weather wise, is not comparable to
Lake Michigan. Lake Michigan is much more difficult to sail....
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

That's why MacBoy is stupid, stupid, stupid.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
I think most mac owners with bad experiences don't want to talk about
them,
especially since they're still trying to unload the boat.

We have to rely on witnesses, like this one:


http://www.ybw.com/cgi-bin/forums/sh...b=5&o=93&part=

Macgregor 26 may be ok for an experienced and careful owner. Hear a lot of
bad
reports re stability etc. We recorded bad accident on Loch Lomond with one
: I
was doing my RNLI water safety bit at the slipway and a guy pulled up with
one
on a trailer. He had just hauled it from Southampton too. Anyway, he had
had a
good sleep and was fresh to go. He spent three hours with his son, getting
her
rigged and I checked his boat for safety and stuff and he launched ok.
Next day,
he set off from one of the islands and as he cleared the lee, caught a
sudden
blow and because he had his keels either 'up' or empty of water buoyancy,
the
whole thing just rolled over and submerged. His kids were down below
asleep and
he had left some of his lifejackets at his campsite on the island!!
Fortunately,
he was in shallow water and was saved by the inshore fast rescue boat.
Unfortunately, the Mac was wrecked during a later attempted recovery. A
long
tale of woe for sure, but boating as we know can be tricky at times. The
skipper
did have some experience but he made a mistake which on the Mac 26 proved
terminal. Best advice, buy any boat you like and can afford, but first of
all,
get trained by a real expert. There are some on this forum who are
professional
instructors and they will probably advise what's best. Happy boating. Safe
people have more fun anyway!! Roy

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
Dear Capt Moron,

The cost of a Mac 26M with 50 hp motor is substantially less than 32K
for a fully equipped boat. Nevertheless, however, 32K is a BARGAIN for
a boat of this quality, versatility, capability.

Incidentally, if, as you say, the Mac 26 is only a "cheap plastic piece
of ****" that is "dangerously under rigged," then there must be hundreds
of them that are falling apart every year, right? Since MacGregor has
sold over 30,000 boats, there must be at least 5,000 of them in which
the rigging has come apart in a moderate wind, or in which the boat has
simply self-destructed and sunk. - Right? If it's dangerously under
rigged, the rigging must be coming apart every time they go out in
moderate winds. (Incidentally, Capt, while you are at it, can you
explain to me why the MacGregor boats, with 300 sq ft of sail, need the
same type of standing rigging as boats with 1,500 ft of sail, and a
4,000 - 6,000 lead keel.)

Of the some MacGregor 30,000 boats, how many do you know of that have
failed, or sunk, or fallen apart because of build quality or "cheap
plastic", excluding user error? - 2,000, perhaps? Maybe 1,000?? Surely
you must know of 500, Moron. Ok, if not 500, how about 100? I'm talking
about yearly averages, not anecdotes, by the way.

In other words, can you back up your (libelous) remarks?

Jim



Capt. Mooron wrote:

CRIPES!!!!!!!

I tagged the basics and ended up with a cost of over 32 grand for what
amounts to a dangerously under rigged, cheap plastic piece of ****
with the
PHRF rating of a margarine container.

You won't get pussy on that boat unless you have a "As when And Where"
contract with a brothel.

I can't see any major difference between the "X" & "M"......

CM




"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
| Just look at the POS!
| http://www.havencraft.com/Index.asp
|
| A pic is worth a thousand words, in this case all negative.
|
| Scotty
|

"Jim Cate" wrote in message

| In other words, can you back up your (libelous) remarks?

Yes....

CM