|
I was a Mac26X owner
I've sailed in 25 knot winds. Anyone who acts like
that is a walk in the park doesn't sail; they only talk about it. The Veridican huh? some damned fine sailing in 25 knots. |
I was a Mac26X owner
In a dinghy
you shouldn't go out at all (in 25 knot winds). Olympic dinghy races (410's?, I don't keep up on racing) were once held in 35 knots and gusting. |
I was a Mac26X owner
I think your math needs a second look. 25 knots is roughly 29 mph.
You're right. So, my point is even more poignant. The Veridican |
I was a Mac26X owner
Why is it poignant? Do you normally think of wind in MPH instead of knots? How
lubberly! "Veridican" wrote in message ... I think your math needs a second look. 25 knots is roughly 29 mph. You're right. So, my point is even more poignant. The Veridican |
I was a Mac26X owner
How Macish.
"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... Why is it poignant? Do you normally think of wind in MPH instead of knots? How lubberly! "Veridican" wrote in message ... I think your math needs a second look. 25 knots is roughly 29 mph. You're right. So, my point is even more poignant. The Veridican |
I was a Mac26X owner
Jeff Morris wrote: Wow. Someone who just spent $32,000 claim they like the boat? What a surprise! People with actual experience with the company don't think its that much of an improvement. They must all be jealous. And, you are suggesting that I speak with someone who hasn't sailed the boat? Since no one on this ng has sailed the 26M, their opinions should be given more weight than someone who has sailed the boat? No??? Then who WOULD you accept as a reliable source? (To help you along, how about: "those who are willing to bash the Mac decisively must, by definition, know what they are talking about, even if they have never even been near one." Is that about the size of it, Jeff? Jim You have a wonderful ability to rationalize, Jim. I suppose it makes life easy. "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Jonathan Ganz wrote: Yup. Now MacBoy has an unbiased opinion of a Mac ower turned Hunter owner, who is definitely moving in the right direction. So now MacBoy can *immediately* go sailing out on the ocean in 40kts wind. We'll all be waiting for your return... NOT. I'm assuming that he was referring to the 26M model (the new boat?), although it's not completely clear. As I understand the note, Ed didn't actually sail the "new boat." So it's not really a very comprehensive report, is it Johnathan? By contrast, I happened to have had an extended discussion of the 26M with an owner yesterday WHO HAD SAILED THE BOAT, under high wind and low wind conditions. He was very pleased with its handling, and in contrast with Ed, he thought the looks and interior of the boat were spectacular, particularly for a boat in this price range. One thing I notice from comments posted on the Mac discussion groups is that owners of the new model like the new boat, whereas owners of the previous (26X) model defend their own boats and pick fault with the new model, despite the fact that few of them have ever sailed one. And since there are many more owners of the 26X than owners of the 26M, the X owners are predominate. Jim |
I was a Mac26X owner
Veridican wrote: maybe I know a different class of sailors. no big thing, really. [ sailing close hauled in 46 mph winds] No big thing? Different class of sailors? You don't sail. No one who sails, says no big deal to pert near gale force winds. You would have been more believable if you had at least said you reefed and rolled in the jib, but you don't know enough about sailing to put that into your lie, do you? The Veridican Maybe he owns a 100-foot ketch with a crew of 15 to help him reef it in. You are right that in the real world, most of us wouldn't choose to sail in such conditions if we had a choice. Jim |
I was a Mac26X owner
On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:23:52 -0400, "Scott Vernon"
wrote: How Macish. How true:) It is a bit surprising how the Mac advertising seems to assume that Mac prospective customers don't understand the concept of knots. Nice of Verdican to prove them right:) "Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... Why is it poignant? Do you normally think of wind in MPH instead of knots? How lubberly! "Veridican" wrote in message ... I think your math needs a second look. 25 knots is roughly 29 mph. You're right. So, my point is even more poignant. The Veridican |
I was a Mac26X owner
Being able to right a boat is sailing 101. Everyone that sails a dink
should be able to right the boat they sail. And they should be left alone and given the time and space to do it. This is true. Also people should know how to lie-to (lay to?), and reef without tipping over. The Veridican "Believe that truth is in the world when those who can see it follow it." |
I was a Mac26X owner
They've never tried to hide the fact that their boat is for beginners, in
fact they relish it. Scotty "felton" wrote in message ... On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:23:52 -0400, "Scott Vernon" wrote: How Macish. How true:) It is a bit surprising how the Mac advertising seems to assume that Mac prospective customers don't understand the concept of knots. Nice of Verdican to prove them right:) "Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... Why is it poignant? Do you normally think of wind in MPH instead of knots? How lubberly! "Veridican" wrote in message ... I think your math needs a second look. 25 knots is roughly 29 mph. You're right. So, my point is even more poignant. The Veridican |
I was a Mac26X owner
Why is it poignant? Do you normally think of wind in MPH instead of knots?
How lubberly! Lubberly? Oh please. I live on the coast. We sweat hurricane warnings every year. We eat in seaside restraunts that serve the fish the local fishing companies catch. We sail almost every weekend. Lubberly? The weather channel and their internet site use MPH, so do I. Lubberly--sheesh. The Veridican "Believe that truth is in the world when those who can see it follow it." |
I was a Mac26X owner
You could have sailed the boat yourself. I suppose the dealer told you that is
not possible now because he doesn't have a demonstrator. Or, you could listen to what owners say. You can find dozens of comments that the top speed under power in flat water to be 12-13 knots, and that it could be hard to get on a plane in a moderate chop. Yet you keep insisting you can make 18 knots offshore. I may not have sailed one, but I've sailed by them a number of times. In a small chop they bob around and don't move. The people on board wonder why all the other boats are going by; it doesn't look like fun at all. I have no trouble with someone choosing a Mac because they want to trailer it to flat water lakes. That's what its designed for. But not for taking it offshore. "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Jeff Morris wrote: Wow. Someone who just spent $32,000 claim they like the boat? What a surprise! People with actual experience with the company don't think its that much of an improvement. They must all be jealous. And, you are suggesting that I speak with someone who hasn't sailed the boat? Since no one on this ng has sailed the 26M, their opinions should be given more weight than someone who has sailed the boat? No??? Then who WOULD you accept as a reliable source? (To help you along, how about: "those who are willing to bash the Mac decisively must, by definition, know what they are talking about, even if they have never even been near one." Is that about the size of it, Jeff? Jim You have a wonderful ability to rationalize, Jim. I suppose it makes life easy. "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Jonathan Ganz wrote: Yup. Now MacBoy has an unbiased opinion of a Mac ower turned Hunter owner, who is definitely moving in the right direction. So now MacBoy can *immediately* go sailing out on the ocean in 40kts wind. We'll all be waiting for your return... NOT. I'm assuming that he was referring to the 26M model (the new boat?), although it's not completely clear. As I understand the note, Ed didn't actually sail the "new boat." So it's not really a very comprehensive report, is it Johnathan? By contrast, I happened to have had an extended discussion of the 26M with an owner yesterday WHO HAD SAILED THE BOAT, under high wind and low wind conditions. He was very pleased with its handling, and in contrast with Ed, he thought the looks and interior of the boat were spectacular, particularly for a boat in this price range. One thing I notice from comments posted on the Mac discussion groups is that owners of the new model like the new boat, whereas owners of the previous (26X) model defend their own boats and pick fault with the new model, despite the fact that few of them have ever sailed one. And since there are many more owners of the 26X than owners of the 26M, the X owners are predominate. Jim |
I was a Mac26X owner
I have no trouble with someone choosing a Mac because they want to trailer it
to flat water lakes. That's what its designed for. But not for taking it offshore. What do you mean, "off shore"? And what do you mean, "flat water lakes"? When I sailed a Mac, it was on a lake that was either dead calm or a squall. The only sailing I know about with a Mac is during squalls. Now that I live on the coast, I'd rather have a squall off shore than in the back bay. At least out there I have room. And don't talk about sailing pasts Macs as if that's a qualification for your claim that they are no good. I watched a regatta the other week and a 40 ft boat with full crew ran aground. We thought they were joking. We couldn't figure out why they weren't turning the boat. It wasn't the boat--they just didn't know how to sail. The Veridican |
I was a Mac26X owner
"Veridican" wrote in message
... Lubberly? Oh please. I live on the coast. We sweat hurricane warnings every year. We eat in seaside restraunts that serve the fish the local fishing companies catch. We sail almost every weekend. Lubberly? BWAHAHAHAHA! You eat fish! Wow, that's pretty nautical for a Mac, excuse me, a Hunter sailer! The weather channel and their internet site use MPH, so do I. Lubberly--sheesh. But the marine forecast is in Knots. Using the "landlubber's forecast" (as its referred to by my local NOAA site) is pretty lame. |
I was a Mac26X owner
But the marine forecast is in Knots. Using the "landlubber's forecast" (as
its referred to by my local NOAA site) is pretty lame. Jeff--who cares? Really. You sound like someone who needs the security of being considered "sea-faring" or whatever the opposite of lubberly is. I don't. I don't have to prove a thing. I go with what works. In fact, I kind of like the fact that I'm "lubberly." Down here it seems most of the fishermen are stupid, grungy, beard-wearing, disgusting individuals who I try to avoid. They are not lubberly--I'm sure. I am. The Veridican |
I was a Mac26X owner
Hey - I'm not the one who didn't know how to convert knots to mph. I let it go
until you decided it was significant that the wind reads higher in mph than in knots. "Veridican" wrote in message ... But the marine forecast is in Knots. Using the "landlubber's forecast" (as its referred to by my local NOAA site) is pretty lame. Jeff--who cares? Really. You sound like someone who needs the security of being considered "sea-faring" or whatever the opposite of lubberly is. I don't. I don't have to prove a thing. I go with what works. In fact, I kind of like the fact that I'm "lubberly." Down here it seems most of the fishermen are stupid, grungy, beard-wearing, disgusting individuals who I try to avoid. They are not lubberly--I'm sure. I am. The Veridican |
I was a Mac26X owner
Jeff Morris wrote: You could have sailed the boat yourself. I suppose the dealer told you that is not possible now because he doesn't have a demonstrator. I have sailed several of the previous models, and I've been following their development and improvements for over 10 years. The Mac 26M incorporates several changes that I had wanted to see in the other boats. Regarding sailing the boat, however, it is almost impossible to get a dealer to permit you to sail the boat out because of the very limited supply and heavy demand for the boats. Or, you could listen to what owners say. (Owners of what? The 26x? And, why should I listen to what the owners say, since you just warned me (in the note copied below) that the owners can't be trusted since they don't want to admit that they made a mistake in buying the boat. You can find dozens of comments that the top speed under power in flat water to be 12-13 knots, and that it could be hard to get on a plane in a moderate chop. Yet you keep insisting you can make 18 knots offshore. (Top speed of what? The 26x?) From the comments I have seen on various ngs, the X has sailed and motored much faster than that. In fact, it was recently stated on the Mac discussion group that the PHRF of the Mac 26x has recently been lowered from over 200 to 135. If the boat is as slow as you say, how did it get a PHRF of 135? (And if you should disagree with this or if you want to question the accuracy of this statement, give us a web site or reference sourses on which we can check out whatever you claim it is.) I may not have sailed one, but I've sailed by them a number of times. In a small chop they bob around and don't move. The people on board wonder why all the other boats are going by; it doesn't look like fun at all. To my knowledge, and after extensive searching, no one who owns one of the Mac 26M's has posted any comments of that nature. (If you know of such a site, give me a link.) By contrast, the reports I have seen regarding the 26M have been universally positive. I have no trouble with someone choosing a Mac because they want to trailer it to flat water lakes. That's what its designed for. But not for taking it offshore. According to the manufacturer, their boat is designed for coastal cruising. Which is what I intend to do. "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Jeff Morris wrote: Wow. Someone who just spent $32,000 claim they like the boat? What a surprise! People with actual experience with the company don't think its that much of an improvement. They must all be jealous. And, you are suggesting that I speak with someone who hasn't sailed the boat? Since no one on this ng has sailed the 26M, their opinions should be given more weight than someone who has sailed the boat? No??? Then who WOULD you accept as a reliable source? (To help you along, how about: "those who are willing to bash the Mac decisively must, by definition, know what they are talking about, even if they have never even been near one." Is that about the size of it, Jeff? Jim You have a wonderful ability to rationalize, Jim. I suppose it makes life easy. "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Jonathan Ganz wrote: Yup. Now MacBoy has an unbiased opinion of a Mac ower turned Hunter owner, who is definitely moving in the right direction. So now MacBoy can *immediately* go sailing out on the ocean in 40kts wind. We'll all be waiting for your return... NOT. I'm assuming that he was referring to the 26M model (the new boat?), although it's not completely clear. As I understand the note, Ed didn't actually sail the "new boat." So it's not really a very comprehensive report, is it Johnathan? By contrast, I happened to have had an extended discussion of the 26M with an owner yesterday WHO HAD SAILED THE BOAT, under high wind and low wind conditions. He was very pleased with its handling, and in contrast with Ed, he thought the looks and interior of the boat were spectacular, particularly for a boat in this price range. One thing I notice from comments posted on the Mac discussion groups is that owners of the new model like the new boat, whereas owners of the previous (26X) model defend their own boats and pick fault with the new model, despite the fact that few of them have ever sailed one. And since there are many more owners of the 26X than owners of the 26M, the X owners are predominate. Jim |
Confessions of a true idiot,'' I was a Mac26X owner''.......
I bet he's even been to Arthur Treachers Fish & Chips.
SV "Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... You could have sailed the boat yourself. I suppose the dealer told you that is not possible now because he doesn't have a demonstrator. Or, you could listen to what owners say. You can find dozens of comments that the top speed under power in flat water to be 12-13 knots, and that it could be hard to get on a plane in a moderate chop. Yet you keep insisting you can make 18 knots offshore. I may not have sailed one, but I've sailed by them a number of times. In a small chop they bob around and don't move. The people on board wonder why all the other boats are going by; it doesn't look like fun at all. I have no trouble with someone choosing a Mac because they want to trailer it to flat water lakes. That's what its designed for. But not for taking it offshore. "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Jeff Morris wrote: Wow. Someone who just spent $32,000 claim they like the boat? What a surprise! People with actual experience with the company don't think its that much of an improvement. They must all be jealous. And, you are suggesting that I speak with someone who hasn't sailed the boat? Since no one on this ng has sailed the 26M, their opinions should be given more weight than someone who has sailed the boat? No??? Then who WOULD you accept as a reliable source? (To help you along, how about: "those who are willing to bash the Mac decisively must, by definition, know what they are talking about, even if they have never even been near one." Is that about the size of it, Jeff? Jim You have a wonderful ability to rationalize, Jim. I suppose it makes life easy. "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Jonathan Ganz wrote: Yup. Now MacBoy has an unbiased opinion of a Mac ower turned Hunter owner, who is definitely moving in the right direction. So now MacBoy can *immediately* go sailing out on the ocean in 40kts wind. We'll all be waiting for your return... NOT. I'm assuming that he was referring to the 26M model (the new boat?), although it's not completely clear. As I understand the note, Ed didn't actually sail the "new boat." So it's not really a very comprehensive report, is it Johnathan? By contrast, I happened to have had an extended discussion of the 26M with an owner yesterday WHO HAD SAILED THE BOAT, under high wind and low wind conditions. He was very pleased with its handling, and in contrast with Ed, he thought the looks and interior of the boat were spectacular, particularly for a boat in this price range. One thing I notice from comments posted on the Mac discussion groups is that owners of the new model like the new boat, whereas owners of the previous (26X) model defend their own boats and pick fault with the new model, despite the fact that few of them have ever sailed one. And since there are many more owners of the 26X than owners of the 26M, the X owners are predominate. Jim |
I was a Mac26X owner
Jim Cate wrote:
According to the manufacturer, their boat is designed for cruising 100 miles offshore, in 80.55452 mph winds. Which is what I pretend to do. |
I was a Mac26X owner
OzOne wrote: On 14 Apr 2004 17:32:12 GMT, (Veridican) scribbled thusly: Jeff, You say 25 knots is more like a jog in the park and 35 is survival conditions, and then you say it's no big deal. 25 knots is 21 mph sustained. It's a force 6 wind. In a cruising boat, you should be in harnesses and reefed. In a dinghy you shouldn't go out at all. I'm not saying it can't be fun, but don't make it sound like it's a normal sailing experience. To use your own words, It's a jog in the park. The Veridican You should come over to Oz or NZ where most summer breezes reach 25kts...every day! Most performance dinghys revel in that weight, planing upwind and down flying spinnakers to their benefit. Oz1...of the 3 twins. Hah! Including lakes too, waht's more! -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Sail where the crabs get blown out of the sand each summer's afternoon! http://www.ace.net.au/schooner/mlakes.htm |
I was a Mac26X owner
Not only are you stupid, but idiotic as well. You're going to
plunk down thousands of $$, but you can't try before you buy?? -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Jeff Morris wrote: You could have sailed the boat yourself. I suppose the dealer told you that is not possible now because he doesn't have a demonstrator. I have sailed several of the previous models, and I've been following their development and improvements for over 10 years. The Mac 26M incorporates several changes that I had wanted to see in the other boats. Regarding sailing the boat, however, it is almost impossible to get a dealer to permit you to sail the boat out because of the very limited supply and heavy demand for the boats. Or, you could listen to what owners say. (Owners of what? The 26x? And, why should I listen to what the owners say, since you just warned me (in the note copied below) that the owners can't be trusted since they don't want to admit that they made a mistake in buying the boat. You can find dozens of comments that the top speed under power in flat water to be 12-13 knots, and that it could be hard to get on a plane in a moderate chop. Yet you keep insisting you can make 18 knots offshore. (Top speed of what? The 26x?) From the comments I have seen on various ngs, the X has sailed and motored much faster than that. In fact, it was recently stated on the Mac discussion group that the PHRF of the Mac 26x has recently been lowered from over 200 to 135. If the boat is as slow as you say, how did it get a PHRF of 135? (And if you should disagree with this or if you want to question the accuracy of this statement, give us a web site or reference sourses on which we can check out whatever you claim it is.) I may not have sailed one, but I've sailed by them a number of times. In a small chop they bob around and don't move. The people on board wonder why all the other boats are going by; it doesn't look like fun at all. To my knowledge, and after extensive searching, no one who owns one of the Mac 26M's has posted any comments of that nature. (If you know of such a site, give me a link.) By contrast, the reports I have seen regarding the 26M have been universally positive. I have no trouble with someone choosing a Mac because they want to trailer it to flat water lakes. That's what its designed for. But not for taking it offshore. According to the manufacturer, their boat is designed for coastal cruising. Which is what I intend to do. "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Jeff Morris wrote: Wow. Someone who just spent $32,000 claim they like the boat? What a surprise! People with actual experience with the company don't think its that much of an improvement. They must all be jealous. And, you are suggesting that I speak with someone who hasn't sailed the boat? Since no one on this ng has sailed the 26M, their opinions should be given more weight than someone who has sailed the boat? No??? Then who WOULD you accept as a reliable source? (To help you along, how about: "those who are willing to bash the Mac decisively must, by definition, know what they are talking about, even if they have never even been near one." Is that about the size of it, Jeff? Jim You have a wonderful ability to rationalize, Jim. I suppose it makes life easy. "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Jonathan Ganz wrote: Yup. Now MacBoy has an unbiased opinion of a Mac ower turned Hunter owner, who is definitely moving in the right direction. So now MacBoy can *immediately* go sailing out on the ocean in 40kts wind. We'll all be waiting for your return... NOT. I'm assuming that he was referring to the 26M model (the new boat?), although it's not completely clear. As I understand the note, Ed didn't actually sail the "new boat." So it's not really a very comprehensive report, is it Johnathan? By contrast, I happened to have had an extended discussion of the 26M with an owner yesterday WHO HAD SAILED THE BOAT, under high wind and low wind conditions. He was very pleased with its handling, and in contrast with Ed, he thought the looks and interior of the boat were spectacular, particularly for a boat in this price range. One thing I notice from comments posted on the Mac discussion groups is that owners of the new model like the new boat, whereas owners of the previous (26X) model defend their own boats and pick fault with the new model, despite the fact that few of them have ever sailed one. And since there are many more owners of the 26X than owners of the 26M, the X owners are predominate. Jim |
I was a Mac26X owner
And, most of us wouldn't choose to by a piece of crap for thousands
of $$, but you did! -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Veridican wrote: maybe I know a different class of sailors. no big thing, really. [ sailing close hauled in 46 mph winds] No big thing? Different class of sailors? You don't sail. No one who sails, says no big deal to pert near gale force winds. You would have been more believable if you had at least said you reefed and rolled in the jib, but you don't know enough about sailing to put that into your lie, do you? The Veridican Maybe he owns a 100-foot ketch with a crew of 15 to help him reef it in. You are right that in the real world, most of us wouldn't choose to sail in such conditions if we had a choice. Jim |
I was a Mac26X owner
I think your math needs a second look. 25 knots is roughly 29 mph.
You're right. So, my point is even more poignant. The Veridican Main Entry: poi·gnant Pronunciation: 'poi-ny&nt sometimes 'poi(g)-n&nt Function: adjective Etymology: Middle English poinaunt, from Middle French poignant, present participle of poindre to prick, sting, from Latin pungere —more at PUNGENT Date: 14th century 1 : pungently pervasive a poignant perfume 2 a (1) : painfully affecting the feelings : PIERCING (2) : deeply affecting : TOUCHING b : designed to make an impression : CUTTING poignant satire 3 a : pleasurably stimulating b : being to the point : APT synonym see PUNGENT, MOVING - poi·gnant·ly adverb Pronunciation Key © 2001 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated Merriam-Webster Privacy Policy |
I was a Mac26X owner
SPAM!!
I have sailed several of the previous models, and I've been following their development and improvements for over 10 years. The Mac 26M incorporates several changes that I had wanted to see in the other boats. Regarding sailing the boat, however, it is almost impossible to get a dealer to permit you to sail the boat out because of the very limited supply and heavy demand for the boats. Or, you could listen to what owners say. (Owners of what? The 26x? And, why should I listen to what the owners say, since you just warned me (in the note copied below) that the owners can't be trusted since they don't want to admit that they made a mistake in buying the boat. You can find dozens of comments that the top speed under power in flat water to be 12-13 knots, and that it could be hard to get on a plane in a moderate chop. Yet you keep insisting you can make 18 knots offshore. (Top speed of what? The 26x?) From the comments I have seen on various ngs, the X has sailed and motored much faster than that. In fact, it was recently stated on the Mac discussion group that the PHRF of the Mac 26x has recently been lowered from over 200 to 135. If the boat is as slow as you say, how did it get a PHRF of 135? (And if you should disagree with this or if you want to question the accuracy of this statement, give us a web site or reference sourses on which we can check out whatever you claim it is.) I may not have sailed one, but I've sailed by them a number of times. In a small chop they bob around and don't move. The people on board wonder why all the other boats are going by; it doesn't look like fun at all. To my knowledge, and after extensive searching, no one who owns one of the Mac 26M's has posted any comments of that nature. (If you know of such a site, give me a link.) By contrast, the reports I have seen regarding the 26M have been universally positive. I have no trouble with someone choosing a Mac because they want to trailer it to flat water lakes. That's what its designed for. But not for taking it offshore. According to the manufacturer, their boat is designed for coastal cruising. Which is what I intend to do. "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Jeff Morris wrote: Wow. Someone who just spent $32,000 claim they like the boat? What a surprise! People with actual experience with the company don't think its that much of an improvement. They must all be jealous. And, you are suggesting that I speak with someone who hasn't sailed the boat? Since no one on this ng has sailed the 26M, their opinions should be given more weight than someone who has sailed the boat? No??? Then who WOULD you accept as a reliable source? (To help you along, how about: "those who are willing to bash the Mac decisively must, by definition, know what they are talking about, even if they have never even been near one." Is that about the size of it, Jeff? Jim You have a wonderful ability to rationalize, Jim. I suppose it makes life easy. "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Jonathan Ganz wrote: Yup. Now MacBoy has an unbiased opinion of a Mac ower turned Hunter owner, who is definitely moving in the right direction. So now MacBoy can *immediately* go sailing out on the ocean in 40kts wind. We'll all be waiting for your return... NOT. I'm assuming that he was referring to the 26M model (the new boat?), although it's not completely clear. As I understand the note, Ed didn't actually sail the "new boat." So it's not really a very comprehensive report, is it Johnathan? By contrast, I happened to have had an extended discussion of the 26M with an owner yesterday WHO HAD SAILED THE BOAT, under high wind and low wind conditions. He was very pleased with its handling, and in contrast with Ed, he thought the looks and interior of the boat were spectacular, particularly for a boat in this price range. One thing I notice from comments posted on the Mac discussion groups is that owners of the new model like the new boat, whereas owners of the previous (26X) model defend their own boats and pick fault with the new model, despite the fact that few of them have ever sailed one. And since there are many more owners of the 26X than owners of the 26M, the X owners are predominate. Jim |
I was a Mac26X owner
bull****, jim.
maybe I know a different class of sailors. no big thing, really. [ sailing close hauled in 46 mph winds] No big thing? Different class of sailors? You don't sail. No one who sails, says no big deal to pert near gale force winds. You would have been more believable if you had at least said you reefed and rolled in the jib, but you don't know enough about sailing to put that into your lie, do you? The Veridican Maybe he owns a 100-foot ketch with a crew of 15 to help him reef it in. You are right that in the real world, most of us wouldn't choose to sail in such conditions if we had a choice. Jim |
I was a Mac26X owner
people should know how to lie-to (lay to?), and reef without
tipping over. The Veridican on a dinghy? give me a break. |
I was a Mac26X owner
"Jim Cate" wrote in message
... You could have sailed the boat yourself. I suppose the dealer told you that is not possible now because he doesn't have a demonstrator. I have sailed several of the previous models, and I've been following their development and improvements for over 10 years. The Mac 26M incorporates several changes that I had wanted to see in the other boats. Regarding sailing the boat, however, it is almost impossible to get a dealer to permit you to sail the boat out because of the very limited supply and heavy demand for the boats. Especially on April 1. Or, you could listen to what owners say. (Owners of what? The 26x? And, why should I listen to what the owners say, since you just warned me (in the note copied below) that the owners can't be trusted since they don't want to admit that they made a mistake in buying the boat. No, you just have to be careful when you interpret them. The comments of a novice sailer who just spent $30K are not that reliable. You can find dozens of comments that the top speed under power in flat water to be 12-13 knots, and that it could be hard to get on a plane in a moderate chop. Yet you keep insisting you can make 18 knots offshore. (Top speed of what? The 26x?) From the comments I have seen on various ngs, the X has sailed and motored much faster than that. Yes, there are people that power very "light" and get more speed. There are also people that almost did it once and talk about like its an everyday occurrence. But if you go through the lists you'll find people that give more believable accounts. The web site itself is explicit that 18 knots is completely unloaded: no ballast, no mast and rigging, no crew or gear. I heard the skipper they chose weighed 130 pounds. In fact, it was recently stated on the Mac discussion group that the PHRF of the Mac 26x has recently been lowered from over 200 to 135. If the boat is as slow as you say, how did it get a PHRF of 135? (And if you should disagree with this or if you want to question the accuracy of this statement, give us a web site or reference sourses on which we can check out whatever you claim it is.) Now that you've admitted that this was a hoax that you bought, "hook, line and sinker," perhaps you should consider what other fantasies you've bought into. If you google "mac 26x phrf" the first hit is: http://www.vycsd.com/summer-comb.pdf I may not have sailed one, but I've sailed by them a number of times. In a small chop they bob around and don't move. The people on board wonder why all the other boats are going by; it doesn't look like fun at all. To my knowledge, and after extensive searching, no one who owns one of the Mac 26M's has posted any comments of that nature. (If you know of such a site, give me a link.) By contrast, the reports I have seen regarding the 26M have been universally positive. I've seen very little about the 26M, but for the 26x from the Sailnet list: When asked about max speed: "My max speed under sail was 6.25 knots on a 90 degree beam reach (wind coming directly off starboard) in a 10 knot wind with 15 knot gusts. What a great day of sailing! I have a combo depth and speedometer on my boat that actually registered 7+ knots but only momentarily during the same run. Two people on board (total) with I'm guessing about 300 lbs of gear and provisions for a week long trip. That 21 mph thing is for powering with no gear, no sail rigging etc. The fastest I've been under power w/ a Honda 50 is 12 to 13 knots - according to my g.p.s. - 14 m.p.h. I hopes this helps." "The best speed, under standard sails, I have ever done is 7 MPH. Checked with GPS." "5.5 knots (est., before I got my GPS)" There were a few impressive comments such as: "Our fastest sustained speed has been 11.2 knots. .... 150 genoa + main .... Winds were at our aft quarter @ 25 knots, gusting to 35. Waves were 4 - 5 feet. We were on a large inland lake. We were surfing on the waves, so some of the speed was certainly from the wave action. .... As a side note, working our way back into those same winds (gusting to 40 knots by that time), the speed was very slow, due to the steep, close wave action. The light weight of the X is a disadvantage when going to weather with any significant wave action." Other comments: "When it gets choppy, you may want to fill the ballast tank. Then you can cruise effortlessly at about 10 mph or about 14-15 max. When the wind is forward of the bow, the ride gets pretty wet above about 10 mph if there is any chop at all. In summary, powering will increase your range, but maybe not as much as you think. It is the trailer that really opens up new areas." From an owner of 4 years: "Initial tenderness: The boat will initially heel the first 10 degrees rather quickly when presented to the wind. Once there, it will become quite stable. This is a feature of all water ballasted boats, as there is no righting moment until the ballast is lifted out of the water, and the long slender CB doesn't present a lot of lateral resistance. "Poor Pointing: Light weight, transom drag, and high freeboard all impair the boats ability to maintain speed pointing high. While the boat will point quite high, you'll sacrifice speed to do so. Sailing about 10 degrees off maximum point, and making wide tacks to maintain speed is one solution. "High freeboard: You'll find the boat makes quite a bit more leeway than your Cat. Windward, you'll find pointing well above the mark and then bearing down to maintain speed around it is effective. Docking in a crosswind can be tricky, but this same light weight makes the helm pretty responsive (NTM having a lot of power available). "Light wind: Not very fast. The relatively small sailplan and the drag created by the CB slot and the flat, square transom. Sometimes these are just the conditions where having high speed ability is nice. I've often powered out into the Strait to higher winds, leaving the other boats behind in the doldrums (going slightly faster than I used to be..) "Waves and Chop: You really have to pay attention to prevent being stopped. Light weight translates into low momentum. Bear into the base of the wave and then bear off as it passes under you. Having a smooth hand on the responsive helm can nearly eliminate this." I have no trouble with someone choosing a Mac because they want to trailer it to flat water lakes. That's what its designed for. But not for taking it offshore. According to the manufacturer, their boat is designed for coastal cruising. Which is what I intend to do. Actually, I think Roger MacGregor's words were "limited coastal cruising" |
I was a Mac26X owner
Jonathan Ganz wrote: Not only are you stupid, but idiotic as well. You're going to plunk down thousands of $$, but you can't try before you buy?? Yep. Jim |
I was a Mac26X owner
JAXAshby wrote: SPAM!! Nope. Jim I have sailed several of the previous models, and I've been following their development and improvements for over 10 years. The Mac 26M incorporates several changes that I had wanted to see in the other boats. Regarding sailing the boat, however, it is almost impossible to get a dealer to permit you to sail the boat out because of the very limited supply and heavy demand for the boats. Or, you could listen to what owners say. (Owners of what? The 26x? And, why should I listen to what the owners say, since you just warned me (in the note copied below) that the owners can't be trusted since they don't want to admit that they made a mistake in buying the boat. You can find dozens of comments that the top speed under power in flat water to be 12-13 knots, and that it could be hard to get on a plane in a moderate chop. Yet you keep insisting you can make 18 knots offshore. (Top speed of what? The 26x?) From the comments I have seen on various ngs, the X has sailed and motored much faster than that. In fact, it was recently stated on the Mac discussion group that the PHRF of the Mac 26x has recently been lowered from over 200 to 135. If the boat is as slow as you say, how did it get a PHRF of 135? (And if you should disagree with this or if you want to question the accuracy of this statement, give us a web site or reference sourses on which we can check out whatever you claim it is.) I may not have sailed one, but I've sailed by them a number of times. In a small chop they bob around and don't move. The people on board wonder why all the other boats are going by; it doesn't look like fun at all. To my knowledge, and after extensive searching, no one who owns one of the Mac 26M's has posted any comments of that nature. (If you know of such a site, give me a link.) By contrast, the reports I have seen regarding the 26M have been universally positive. I have no trouble with someone choosing a Mac because they want to trailer it to flat water lakes. That's what its designed for. But not for taking it offshore. According to the manufacturer, their boat is designed for coastal cruising. Which is what I intend to do. "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Jeff Morris wrote: Wow. Someone who just spent $32,000 claim they like the boat? What a surprise! People with actual experience with the company don't think its that much of an improvement. They must all be jealous. And, you are suggesting that I speak with someone who hasn't sailed the boat? Since no one on this ng has sailed the 26M, their opinions should be given more weight than someone who has sailed the boat? No??? Then who WOULD you accept as a reliable source? (To help you along, how about: "those who are willing to bash the Mac decisively must, by definition, know what they are talking about, even if they have never even been near one." Is that about the size of it, Jeff? Jim You have a wonderful ability to rationalize, Jim. I suppose it makes life easy. "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Jonathan Ganz wrote: Yup. Now MacBoy has an unbiased opinion of a Mac ower turned Hunter owner, who is definitely moving in the right direction. So now MacBoy can *immediately* go sailing out on the ocean in 40kts wind. We'll all be waiting for your return... NOT. I'm assuming that he was referring to the 26M model (the new boat?), although it's not completely clear. As I understand the note, Ed didn't actually sail the "new boat." So it's not really a very comprehensive report, is it Johnathan? By contrast, I happened to have had an extended discussion of the 26M with an owner yesterday WHO HAD SAILED THE BOAT, under high wind and low wind conditions. He was very pleased with its handling, and in contrast with Ed, he thought the looks and interior of the boat were spectacular, particularly for a boat in this price range. One thing I notice from comments posted on the Mac discussion groups is that owners of the new model like the new boat, whereas owners of the previous (26X) model defend their own boats and pick fault with the new model, despite the fact that few of them have ever sailed one. And since there are many more owners of the 26X than owners of the 26M, the X owners are predominate. Jim |
I was a Mac26X owner
Once again, your post quotes from owners of Macs, but not owners of Mac
26Ms. One owner states that he has owned his boat for four years. - But the Mac 26M was first sold in 2003, only 10 months ago. (AN OBVIOUSLY DECEPTIVE CITE.) Regarding pointing ability and speed under sail, eveyone I speak with who has saild the 26M tells me that the new hull and keel arrangment are a significant improvement. How about a little more intellectual honesty when repeating quotes like these. Jim Jeff Morris wrote: "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... You could have sailed the boat yourself. I suppose the dealer told you that is not possible now because he doesn't have a demonstrator. I have sailed several of the previous models, and I've been following their development and improvements for over 10 years. The Mac 26M incorporates several changes that I had wanted to see in the other boats. Regarding sailing the boat, however, it is almost impossible to get a dealer to permit you to sail the boat out because of the very limited supply and heavy demand for the boats. Especially on April 1. Or, you could listen to what owners say. (Owners of what? The 26x? And, why should I listen to what the owners say, since you just warned me (in the note copied below) that the owners can't be trusted since they don't want to admit that they made a mistake in buying the boat. No, you just have to be careful when you interpret them. The comments of a novice sailer who just spent $30K are not that reliable. You can find dozens of comments that the top speed under power in flat water to be 12-13 knots, and that it could be hard to get on a plane in a moderate chop. Yet you keep insisting you can make 18 knots offshore. (Top speed of what? The 26x?) From the comments I have seen on various ngs, the X has sailed and motored much faster than that. Yes, there are people that power very "light" and get more speed. There are also people that almost did it once and talk about like its an everyday occurrence. But if you go through the lists you'll find people that give more believable accounts. The web site itself is explicit that 18 knots is completely unloaded: no ballast, no mast and rigging, no crew or gear. I heard the skipper they chose weighed 130 pounds. In fact, it was recently stated on the Mac discussion group that the PHRF of the Mac 26x has recently been lowered from over 200 to 135. If the boat is as slow as you say, how did it get a PHRF of 135? (And if you should disagree with this or if you want to question the accuracy of this statement, give us a web site or reference sourses on which we can check out whatever you claim it is.) Now that you've admitted that this was a hoax that you bought, "hook, line and sinker," perhaps you should consider what other fantasies you've bought into. If you google "mac 26x phrf" the first hit is: http://www.vycsd.com/summer-comb.pdf I may not have sailed one, but I've sailed by them a number of times. In a small chop they bob around and don't move. The people on board wonder why all the other boats are going by; it doesn't look like fun at all. To my knowledge, and after extensive searching, no one who owns one of the Mac 26M's has posted any comments of that nature. (If you know of such a site, give me a link.) By contrast, the reports I have seen regarding the 26M have been universally positive. I've seen very little about the 26M, but for the 26x from the Sailnet list: When asked about max speed: "My max speed under sail was 6.25 knots on a 90 degree beam reach (wind coming directly off starboard) in a 10 knot wind with 15 knot gusts. What a great day of sailing! I have a combo depth and speedometer on my boat that actually registered 7+ knots but only momentarily during the same run. Two people on board (total) with I'm guessing about 300 lbs of gear and provisions for a week long trip. That 21 mph thing is for powering with no gear, no sail rigging etc. The fastest I've been under power w/ a Honda 50 is 12 to 13 knots - according to my g.p.s. - 14 m.p.h. I hopes this helps." "The best speed, under standard sails, I have ever done is 7 MPH. Checked with GPS." "5.5 knots (est., before I got my GPS)" There were a few impressive comments such as: "Our fastest sustained speed has been 11.2 knots. ... 150 genoa + main ... Winds were at our aft quarter @ 25 knots, gusting to 35. Waves were 4 - 5 feet. We were on a large inland lake. We were surfing on the waves, so some of the speed was certainly from the wave action. ... As a side note, working our way back into those same winds (gusting to 40 knots by that time), the speed was very slow, due to the steep, close wave action. The light weight of the X is a disadvantage when going to weather with any significant wave action." Other comments: "When it gets choppy, you may want to fill the ballast tank. Then you can cruise effortlessly at about 10 mph or about 14-15 max. When the wind is forward of the bow, the ride gets pretty wet above about 10 mph if there is any chop at all. In summary, powering will increase your range, but maybe not as much as you think. It is the trailer that really opens up new areas." From an owner of 4 years: "Initial tenderness: The boat will initially heel the first 10 degrees rather quickly when presented to the wind. Once there, it will become quite stable. This is a feature of all water ballasted boats, as there is no righting moment until the ballast is lifted out of the water, and the long slender CB doesn't present a lot of lateral resistance. "Poor Pointing: Light weight, transom drag, and high freeboard all impair the boats ability to maintain speed pointing high. While the boat will point quite high, you'll sacrifice speed to do so. Sailing about 10 degrees off maximum point, and making wide tacks to maintain speed is one solution. "High freeboard: You'll find the boat makes quite a bit more leeway than your Cat. Windward, you'll find pointing well above the mark and then bearing down to maintain speed around it is effective. Docking in a crosswind can be tricky, but this same light weight makes the helm pretty responsive (NTM having a lot of power available). "Light wind: Not very fast. The relatively small sailplan and the drag created by the CB slot and the flat, square transom. Sometimes these are just the conditions where having high speed ability is nice. I've often powered out into the Strait to higher winds, leaving the other boats behind in the doldrums (going slightly faster than I used to be..) "Waves and Chop: You really have to pay attention to prevent being stopped. Light weight translates into low momentum. Bear into the base of the wave and then bear off as it passes under you. Having a smooth hand on the responsive helm can nearly eliminate this." I have no trouble with someone choosing a Mac because they want to trailer it to flat water lakes. That's what its designed for. But not for taking it offshore. According to the manufacturer, their boat is designed for coastal cruising. Which is what I intend to do. Actually, I think Roger MacGregor's words were "limited coastal cruising" |
I was a Mac26X owner
Not only are you stupid, but idiotic as well. You're going to
plunk down thousands of $$, but you can't try before you buy?? Yep. Jim what can ya say? jimmy wanted all along nothing so much but to be thought stupid. |
I was a Mac26X owner
JAXAshby wrote:
SPAM!! Nope. Jim abject stupidity? nah, it's gotta be SPAM!! no one is as stupid as jim claims himself to be. |
I was a Mac26X owner
It would beyond your abilities.
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Once again, your post quotes from owners of Macs, but not owners of Mac 26Ms. One owner states that he has owned his boat for four years. - But the Mac 26M was first sold in 2003, only 10 months ago. (AN OBVIOUSLY DECEPTIVE CITE.) Regarding pointing ability and speed under sail, eveyone I speak with who has saild the 26M tells me that the new hull and keel arrangment are a significant improvement. How about a little more intellectual honesty when repeating quotes like these. Jim Jeff Morris wrote: "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... You could have sailed the boat yourself. I suppose the dealer told you that is not possible now because he doesn't have a demonstrator. I have sailed several of the previous models, and I've been following their development and improvements for over 10 years. The Mac 26M incorporates several changes that I had wanted to see in the other boats. Regarding sailing the boat, however, it is almost impossible to get a dealer to permit you to sail the boat out because of the very limited supply and heavy demand for the boats. Especially on April 1. Or, you could listen to what owners say. (Owners of what? The 26x? And, why should I listen to what the owners say, since you just warned me (in the note copied below) that the owners can't be trusted since they don't want to admit that they made a mistake in buying the boat. No, you just have to be careful when you interpret them. The comments of a novice sailer who just spent $30K are not that reliable. You can find dozens of comments that the top speed under power in flat water to be 12-13 knots, and that it could be hard to get on a plane in a moderate chop. Yet you keep insisting you can make 18 knots offshore. (Top speed of what? The 26x?) From the comments I have seen on various ngs, the X has sailed and motored much faster than that. Yes, there are people that power very "light" and get more speed. There are also people that almost did it once and talk about like its an everyday occurrence. But if you go through the lists you'll find people that give more believable accounts. The web site itself is explicit that 18 knots is completely unloaded: no ballast, no mast and rigging, no crew or gear. I heard the skipper they chose weighed 130 pounds. In fact, it was recently stated on the Mac discussion group that the PHRF of the Mac 26x has recently been lowered from over 200 to 135. If the boat is as slow as you say, how did it get a PHRF of 135? (And if you should disagree with this or if you want to question the accuracy of this statement, give us a web site or reference sourses on which we can check out whatever you claim it is.) Now that you've admitted that this was a hoax that you bought, "hook, line and sinker," perhaps you should consider what other fantasies you've bought into. If you google "mac 26x phrf" the first hit is: http://www.vycsd.com/summer-comb.pdf I may not have sailed one, but I've sailed by them a number of times. In a small chop they bob around and don't move. The people on board wonder why all the other boats are going by; it doesn't look like fun at all. To my knowledge, and after extensive searching, no one who owns one of the Mac 26M's has posted any comments of that nature. (If you know of such a site, give me a link.) By contrast, the reports I have seen regarding the 26M have been universally positive. I've seen very little about the 26M, but for the 26x from the Sailnet list: When asked about max speed: "My max speed under sail was 6.25 knots on a 90 degree beam reach (wind coming directly off starboard) in a 10 knot wind with 15 knot gusts. What a great day of sailing! I have a combo depth and speedometer on my boat that actually registered 7+ knots but only momentarily during the same run. Two people on board (total) with I'm guessing about 300 lbs of gear and provisions for a week long trip. That 21 mph thing is for powering with no gear, no sail rigging etc. The fastest I've been under power w/ a Honda 50 is 12 to 13 knots - according to my g.p.s. - 14 m.p.h. I hopes this helps." "The best speed, under standard sails, I have ever done is 7 MPH. Checked with GPS." "5.5 knots (est., before I got my GPS)" There were a few impressive comments such as: "Our fastest sustained speed has been 11.2 knots. ... 150 genoa + main ... Winds were at our aft quarter @ 25 knots, gusting to 35. Waves were 4 - 5 feet. We were on a large inland lake. We were surfing on the waves, so some of the speed was certainly from the wave action. ... As a side note, working our way back into those same winds (gusting to 40 knots by that time), the speed was very slow, due to the steep, close wave action. The light weight of the X is a disadvantage when going to weather with any significant wave action." Other comments: "When it gets choppy, you may want to fill the ballast tank. Then you can cruise effortlessly at about 10 mph or about 14-15 max. When the wind is forward of the bow, the ride gets pretty wet above about 10 mph if there is any chop at all. In summary, powering will increase your range, but maybe not as much as you think. It is the trailer that really opens up new areas." From an owner of 4 years: "Initial tenderness: The boat will initially heel the first 10 degrees rather quickly when presented to the wind. Once there, it will become quite stable. This is a feature of all water ballasted boats, as there is no righting moment until the ballast is lifted out of the water, and the long slender CB doesn't present a lot of lateral resistance. "Poor Pointing: Light weight, transom drag, and high freeboard all impair the boats ability to maintain speed pointing high. While the boat will point quite high, you'll sacrifice speed to do so. Sailing about 10 degrees off maximum point, and making wide tacks to maintain speed is one solution. "High freeboard: You'll find the boat makes quite a bit more leeway than your Cat. Windward, you'll find pointing well above the mark and then bearing down to maintain speed around it is effective. Docking in a crosswind can be tricky, but this same light weight makes the helm pretty responsive (NTM having a lot of power available). "Light wind: Not very fast. The relatively small sailplan and the drag created by the CB slot and the flat, square transom. Sometimes these are just the conditions where having high speed ability is nice. I've often powered out into the Strait to higher winds, leaving the other boats behind in the doldrums (going slightly faster than I used to be..) "Waves and Chop: You really have to pay attention to prevent being stopped. Light weight translates into low momentum. Bear into the base of the wave and then bear off as it passes under you. Having a smooth hand on the responsive helm can nearly eliminate this." I have no trouble with someone choosing a Mac because they want to trailer it to flat water lakes. That's what its designed for. But not for taking it offshore. According to the manufacturer, their boat is designed for coastal cruising. Which is what I intend to do. Actually, I think Roger MacGregor's words were "limited coastal cruising" |
I was a Mac26X owner
Bull**** Jim, you're the one being dishonest. I led off the quotes with the
comment "I've seen very little about the 26M, but for the 26x from the Sailnet list:" You keep insisting that while the 26X may have been a piece of ****, the 26M is a totally different boat. It may be true that the M performs a bit better in some situations, and is a step forward, but they are 95% identical. Virtually every comment about the 26X will be more or less true for the 26M. Adding a few degrees of deadrise to the hull will make the boat handle a bit better in a chop, but it also slows it down in flat water. Haven't you noticed that the top speed list for the M is slower than what used to be claimed for the X? It may be the performance under sail has improved a bit, but frankly it couldn't get much worse. But the sail isn't that much bigger, and the hull isn't that different, and the fundamental problems with the design haven't been changed. But if it does perform so much better, why was the salesman afraid to let you test it? "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Once again, your post quotes from owners of Macs, but not owners of Mac 26Ms. One owner states that he has owned his boat for four years. - But the Mac 26M was first sold in 2003, only 10 months ago. (AN OBVIOUSLY DECEPTIVE CITE.) Regarding pointing ability and speed under sail, eveyone I speak with who has saild the 26M tells me that the new hull and keel arrangment are a significant improvement. How about a little more intellectual honesty when repeating quotes like these. Jim Jeff Morris wrote: "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... You could have sailed the boat yourself. I suppose the dealer told you that is not possible now because he doesn't have a demonstrator. I have sailed several of the previous models, and I've been following their development and improvements for over 10 years. The Mac 26M incorporates several changes that I had wanted to see in the other boats. Regarding sailing the boat, however, it is almost impossible to get a dealer to permit you to sail the boat out because of the very limited supply and heavy demand for the boats. Especially on April 1. Or, you could listen to what owners say. (Owners of what? The 26x? And, why should I listen to what the owners say, since you just warned me (in the note copied below) that the owners can't be trusted since they don't want to admit that they made a mistake in buying the boat. No, you just have to be careful when you interpret them. The comments of a novice sailer who just spent $30K are not that reliable. You can find dozens of comments that the top speed under power in flat water to be 12-13 knots, and that it could be hard to get on a plane in a moderate chop. Yet you keep insisting you can make 18 knots offshore. (Top speed of what? The 26x?) From the comments I have seen on various ngs, the X has sailed and motored much faster than that. Yes, there are people that power very "light" and get more speed. There are also people that almost did it once and talk about like its an everyday occurrence. But if you go through the lists you'll find people that give more believable accounts. The web site itself is explicit that 18 knots is completely unloaded: no ballast, no mast and rigging, no crew or gear. I heard the skipper they chose weighed 130 pounds. In fact, it was recently stated on the Mac discussion group that the PHRF of the Mac 26x has recently been lowered from over 200 to 135. If the boat is as slow as you say, how did it get a PHRF of 135? (And if you should disagree with this or if you want to question the accuracy of this statement, give us a web site or reference sourses on which we can check out whatever you claim it is.) Now that you've admitted that this was a hoax that you bought, "hook, line and sinker," perhaps you should consider what other fantasies you've bought into. If you google "mac 26x phrf" the first hit is: http://www.vycsd.com/summer-comb.pdf I may not have sailed one, but I've sailed by them a number of times. In a small chop they bob around and don't move. The people on board wonder why all the other boats are going by; it doesn't look like fun at all. To my knowledge, and after extensive searching, no one who owns one of the Mac 26M's has posted any comments of that nature. (If you know of such a site, give me a link.) By contrast, the reports I have seen regarding the 26M have been universally positive. I've seen very little about the 26M, but for the 26x from the Sailnet list: When asked about max speed: "My max speed under sail was 6.25 knots on a 90 degree beam reach (wind coming directly off starboard) in a 10 knot wind with 15 knot gusts. What a great day of sailing! I have a combo depth and speedometer on my boat that actually registered 7+ knots but only momentarily during the same run. Two people on board (total) with I'm guessing about 300 lbs of gear and provisions for a week long trip. That 21 mph thing is for powering with no gear, no sail rigging etc. The fastest I've been under power w/ a Honda 50 is 12 to 13 knots - according to my g.p.s. - 14 m.p.h. I hopes this helps." "The best speed, under standard sails, I have ever done is 7 MPH. Checked with GPS." "5.5 knots (est., before I got my GPS)" There were a few impressive comments such as: "Our fastest sustained speed has been 11.2 knots. ... 150 genoa + main ... Winds were at our aft quarter @ 25 knots, gusting to 35. Waves were 4 - 5 feet. We were on a large inland lake. We were surfing on the waves, so some of the speed was certainly from the wave action. ... As a side note, working our way back into those same winds (gusting to 40 knots by that time), the speed was very slow, due to the steep, close wave action. The light weight of the X is a disadvantage when going to weather with any significant wave action." Other comments: "When it gets choppy, you may want to fill the ballast tank. Then you can cruise effortlessly at about 10 mph or about 14-15 max. When the wind is forward of the bow, the ride gets pretty wet above about 10 mph if there is any chop at all. In summary, powering will increase your range, but maybe not as much as you think. It is the trailer that really opens up new areas." From an owner of 4 years: "Initial tenderness: The boat will initially heel the first 10 degrees rather quickly when presented to the wind. Once there, it will become quite stable. This is a feature of all water ballasted boats, as there is no righting moment until the ballast is lifted out of the water, and the long slender CB doesn't present a lot of lateral resistance. "Poor Pointing: Light weight, transom drag, and high freeboard all impair the boats ability to maintain speed pointing high. While the boat will point quite high, you'll sacrifice speed to do so. Sailing about 10 degrees off maximum point, and making wide tacks to maintain speed is one solution. "High freeboard: You'll find the boat makes quite a bit more leeway than your Cat. Windward, you'll find pointing well above the mark and then bearing down to maintain speed around it is effective. Docking in a crosswind can be tricky, but this same light weight makes the helm pretty responsive (NTM having a lot of power available). "Light wind: Not very fast. The relatively small sailplan and the drag created by the CB slot and the flat, square transom. Sometimes these are just the conditions where having high speed ability is nice. I've often powered out into the Strait to higher winds, leaving the other boats behind in the doldrums (going slightly faster than I used to be..) "Waves and Chop: You really have to pay attention to prevent being stopped. Light weight translates into low momentum. Bear into the base of the wave and then bear off as it passes under you. Having a smooth hand on the responsive helm can nearly eliminate this." I have no trouble with someone choosing a Mac because they want to trailer it to flat water lakes. That's what its designed for. But not for taking it offshore. According to the manufacturer, their boat is designed for coastal cruising. Which is what I intend to do. Actually, I think Roger MacGregor's words were "limited coastal cruising" |
I was a Mac26X owner
Dear Mr. Morris,
We used to let the salesmen take potential buyers out on test sails, but we ended up losing too many good salesmen, and also suckers, I mean potential buyers. Roger Mac "Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... But if it does perform so much better, why was the salesman afraid to let you test it? |
I was a Mac26X owner
Well, at least you admit it!
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Jonathan Ganz wrote: Not only are you stupid, but idiotic as well. You're going to plunk down thousands of $$, but you can't try before you buy?? Yep. Jim |
I was a Mac26X owner
Jeff Morris wrote: Bull**** Jim, you're the one being dishonest. I led off the quotes with the comment "I've seen very little about the 26M, but for the 26x from the Sailnet list:" You keep insisting that while the 26X may have been a piece of ****, Actually, I don't recall saying that the 26x was a piece of ****. I have noted above several aspects of the 26x that I didn't like which have been corrected or improved on the 26M. the 26M is a totally different boat. It may be true that the M performs a bit better in some situations, and is a step forward, but they are 95% identical. How can you possibly believe that? The hull design of the 26M is substantially and significantly changed, now having with a deep 16-degree V rather than a relatively flat bottom throughout; the swing keel of the x boat has been replaced by a dagger board that is much more narrow, and that can be adjusted vertically as desired without altering the center of lateral resistance, as with a swing keel; the boat no longer depends on a water ballast exclusively, but additionally includes permanent ballast to enhance stability and provide greater safety when motoring without the water ballast. Additionally, the 26M includes a new rotatable mast, floatation in the mast to minimize the possibility of capsizing, new chain plates, new standing rigging design, more attractive and more comfortable cabin, etc., etc. Virtually every comment about the 26X will be more or less true for the 26M. Adding a few degrees of deadrise to the hull will make the boat handle a bit better in a chop, but it also slows it down in flat water. Haven't you noticed that the top speed list for the M is slower than what used to be claimed for the X? For clarity, this is a potential reduction in top speed under power, not sail. - Yes, I've noticed it, and I'll be happy to sacrifice a little top speed under power in return for enhanced stability and comfort when motoring through chop, and for increased speed and pointing ability under sail. It may be the performance under sail has improved a bit, but frankly it couldn't get much worse. But the sail isn't that much bigger, and the hull isn't that different, and the fundamental problems with the design haven't been changed. See my comments above. I think the boat will perform competitively against most 26-ft boats. But it wasn't designed as a racer, and that's not my primary interest. But if it does perform so much better, why was the salesman afraid to let you test it? He wasn't "afraid" to let me test it. - He didn't have any of the boats in stock. He had sold one other one, that arrived later, and he didn't want me to sail one that had been sold to someone else. He was going to get only one more in the next five months or so, which I ordered. As previously explained, I have sailed a number of MacGregor boats, and the new model has corrected the several problems I saw with the x model, while retaining its advantages and versatility. In discussing the boat with Mac owners, everyone I spoke with who had sailed the 26M was positive regarding the new boat. Jim "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Once again, your post quotes from owners of Macs, but not owners of Mac 26Ms. One owner states that he has owned his boat for four years. - But the Mac 26M was first sold in 2003, only 10 months ago. (AN OBVIOUSLY DECEPTIVE CITE.) Regarding pointing ability and speed under sail, eveyone I speak with who has saild the 26M tells me that the new hull and keel arrangment are a significant improvement. How about a little more intellectual honesty when repeating quotes like these. Jim Jeff Morris wrote: "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... You could have sailed the boat yourself. I suppose the dealer told you that is not possible now because he doesn't have a demonstrator. I have sailed several of the previous models, and I've been following their development and improvements for over 10 years. The Mac 26M incorporates several changes that I had wanted to see in the other boats. Regarding sailing the boat, however, it is almost impossible to get a dealer to permit you to sail the boat out because of the very limited supply and heavy demand for the boats. Especially on April 1. Or, you could listen to what owners say. (Owners of what? The 26x? And, why should I listen to what the owners say, since you just warned me (in the note copied below) that the owners can't be trusted since they don't want to admit that they made a mistake in buying the boat. No, you just have to be careful when you interpret them. The comments of a novice sailer who just spent $30K are not that reliable. You can find dozens of comments that the top speed under power in flat water to be 12-13 knots, and that it could be hard to get on a plane in a moderate chop. Yet you keep insisting you can make 18 knots offshore. (Top speed of what? The 26x?) From the comments I have seen on various ngs, the X has sailed and motored much faster than that. Yes, there are people that power very "light" and get more speed. There are also people that almost did it once and talk about like its an everyday occurrence. But if you go through the lists you'll find people that give more believable accounts. The web site itself is explicit that 18 knots is completely unloaded: no ballast, no mast and rigging, no crew or gear. I heard the skipper they chose weighed 130 pounds. In fact, it was recently stated on the Mac discussion group that the PHRF of the Mac 26x has recently been lowered from over 200 to 135. If the boat is as slow as you say, how did it get a PHRF of 135? (And if you should disagree with this or if you want to question the accuracy of this statement, give us a web site or reference sourses on which we can check out whatever you claim it is.) Now that you've admitted that this was a hoax that you bought, "hook, line and sinker," perhaps you should consider what other fantasies you've bought into. If you google "mac 26x phrf" the first hit is: http://www.vycsd.com/summer-comb.pdf I may not have sailed one, but I've sailed by them a number of times. In a small chop they bob around and don't move. The people on board wonder why all the other boats are going by; it doesn't look like fun at all. To my knowledge, and after extensive searching, no one who owns one of the Mac 26M's has posted any comments of that nature. (If you know of such a site, give me a link.) By contrast, the reports I have seen regarding the 26M have been universally positive. I've seen very little about the 26M, but for the 26x from the Sailnet list: When asked about max speed: "My max speed under sail was 6.25 knots on a 90 degree beam reach (wind coming directly off starboard) in a 10 knot wind with 15 knot gusts. What a great day of sailing! I have a combo depth and speedometer on my boat that actually registered 7+ knots but only momentarily during the same run. Two people on board (total) with I'm guessing about 300 lbs of gear and provisions for a week long trip. That 21 mph thing is for powering with no gear, no sail rigging etc. The fastest I've been under power w/ a Honda 50 is 12 to 13 knots - according to my g.p.s. - 14 m.p.h. I hopes this helps." "The best speed, under standard sails, I have ever done is 7 MPH. Checked with GPS." "5.5 knots (est., before I got my GPS)" There were a few impressive comments such as: "Our fastest sustained speed has been 11.2 knots. ... 150 genoa + main ... Winds were at our aft quarter @ 25 knots, gusting to 35. Waves were 4 - 5 feet. We were on a large inland lake. We were surfing on the waves, so some of the speed was certainly from the wave action. ... As a side note, working our way back into those same winds (gusting to 40 knots by that time), the speed was very slow, due to the steep, close wave action. The light weight of the X is a disadvantage when going to weather with any significant wave action." Other comments: "When it gets choppy, you may want to fill the ballast tank. Then you can cruise effortlessly at about 10 mph or about 14-15 max. When the wind is forward of the bow, the ride gets pretty wet above about 10 mph if there is any chop at all. In summary, powering will increase your range, but maybe not as much as you think. It is the trailer that really opens up new areas." From an owner of 4 years: "Initial tenderness: The boat will initially heel the first 10 degrees rather quickly when presented to the wind. Once there, it will become quite stable. This is a feature of all water ballasted boats, as there is no righting moment until the ballast is lifted out of the water, and the long slender CB doesn't present a lot of lateral resistance. "Poor Pointing: Light weight, transom drag, and high freeboard all impair the boats ability to maintain speed pointing high. While the boat will point quite high, you'll sacrifice speed to do so. Sailing about 10 degrees off maximum point, and making wide tacks to maintain speed is one solution. "High freeboard: You'll find the boat makes quite a bit more leeway than your Cat. Windward, you'll find pointing well above the mark and then bearing down to maintain speed around it is effective. Docking in a crosswind can be tricky, but this same light weight makes the helm pretty responsive (NTM having a lot of power available). "Light wind: Not very fast. The relatively small sailplan and the drag created by the CB slot and the flat, square transom. Sometimes these are just the conditions where having high speed ability is nice. I've often powered out into the Strait to higher winds, leaving the other boats behind in the doldrums (going slightly faster than I used to be..) "Waves and Chop: You really have to pay attention to prevent being stopped. Light weight translates into low momentum. Bear into the base of the wave and then bear off as it passes under you. Having a smooth hand on the responsive helm can nearly eliminate this." I have no trouble with someone choosing a Mac because they want to trailer it to flat water lakes. That's what its designed for. But not for taking it offshore. According to the manufacturer, their boat is designed for coastal cruising. Which is what I intend to do. Actually, I think Roger MacGregor's words were "limited coastal cruising" |
I was a Mac26X owner
felton wrote: On 14 Apr 2004 17:32:12 GMT, (Veridican) wrote: Jeff, You say 25 knots is more like a jog in the park and 35 is survival conditions, and then you say it's no big deal. 25 knots is 21 mph sustained. It's a force 6 wind. In a cruising boat, you should be in harnesses and reefed. In a dinghy you shouldn't go out at all. I'm not saying it can't be fun, but don't make it sound like it's a normal sailing experience. To use your own words, It's a jog in the park. The Veridican I think your math needs a second look. 25 knots is roughly 29 mph. In other words, it's even higher, in mph, than he indicated, which further emphasizes the point he was making. Jim |
I was a Mac26X owner
can you say "cognitive diffidence"?
well, I say SPAM!! Bull**** Jim, you're the one being dishonest. I led off the quotes with the comment "I've seen very little about the 26M, but for the 26x from the Sailnet list:" You keep insisting that while the 26X may have been a piece of ****, Actually, I don't recall saying that the 26x was a piece of ****. I have noted above several aspects of the 26x that I didn't like which have been corrected or improved on the 26M. the 26M is a totally different boat. It may be true that the M performs a bit better in some situations, and is a step forward, but they are 95% identical. How can you possibly believe that? The hull design of the 26M is substantially and significantly changed, now having with a deep 16-degree V rather than a relatively flat bottom throughout; the swing keel of the x boat has been replaced by a dagger board that is much more narrow, and that can be adjusted vertically as desired without altering the center of lateral resistance, as with a swing keel; the boat no longer depends on a water ballast exclusively, but additionally includes permanent ballast to enhance stability and provide greater safety when motoring without the water ballast. Additionally, the 26M includes a new rotatable mast, floatation in the mast to minimize the possibility of capsizing, new chain plates, new standing rigging design, more attractive and more comfortable cabin, etc., etc. Virtually every comment about the 26X will be more or less true for the 26M. Adding a few degrees of deadrise to the hull will make the boat handle a bit better in a chop, but it also slows it down in flat water. Haven't you noticed that the top speed list for the M is slower than what used to be claimed for the X? For clarity, this is a potential reduction in top speed under power, not sail. - Yes, I've noticed it, and I'll be happy to sacrifice a little top speed under power in return for enhanced stability and comfort when motoring through chop, and for increased speed and pointing ability under sail. It may be the performance under sail has improved a bit, but frankly it couldn't get much worse. But the sail isn't that much bigger, and the hull isn't that different, and the fundamental problems with the design haven't been changed. See my comments above. I think the boat will perform competitively against most 26-ft boats. But it wasn't designed as a racer, and that's not my primary interest. But if it does perform so much better, why was the salesman afraid to let you test it? He wasn't "afraid" to let me test it. - He didn't have any of the boats in stock. He had sold one other one, that arrived later, and he didn't want me to sail one that had been sold to someone else. He was going to get only one more in the next five months or so, which I ordered. As previously explained, I have sailed a number of MacGregor boats, and the new model has corrected the several problems I saw with the x model, while retaining its advantages and versatility. In discussing the boat with Mac owners, everyone I spoke with who had sailed the 26M was positive regarding the new boat. Jim "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Once again, your post quotes from owners of Macs, but not owners of Mac 26Ms. One owner states that he has owned his boat for four years. - But the Mac 26M was first sold in 2003, only 10 months ago. (AN OBVIOUSLY DECEPTIVE CITE.) Regarding pointing ability and speed under sail, eveyone I speak with who has saild the 26M tells me that the new hull and keel arrangment are a significant improvement. How about a little more intellectual honesty when repeating quotes like these. Jim Jeff Morris wrote: "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... You could have sailed the boat yourself. I suppose the dealer told you that is not possible now because he doesn't have a demonstrator. I have sailed several of the previous models, and I've been following their development and improvements for over 10 years. The Mac 26M incorporates several changes that I had wanted to see in the other boats. Regarding sailing the boat, however, it is almost impossible to get a dealer to permit you to sail the boat out because of the very limited supply and heavy demand for the boats. Especially on April 1. Or, you could listen to what owners say. (Owners of what? The 26x? And, why should I listen to what the owners say, since you just warned me (in the note copied below) that the owners can't be trusted since they don't want to admit that they made a mistake in buying the boat. No, you just have to be careful when you interpret them. The comments of a novice sailer who just spent $30K are not that reliable. You can find dozens of comments that the top speed under power in flat water to be 12-13 knots, and that it could be hard to get on a plane in a moderate chop. Yet you keep insisting you can make 18 knots offshore. (Top speed of what? The 26x?) From the comments I have seen on various ngs, the X has sailed and motored much faster than that. Yes, there are people that power very "light" and get more speed. There are also people that almost did it once and talk about like its an everyday occurrence. But if you go through the lists you'll find people that give more believable accounts. The web site itself is explicit that 18 knots is completely unloaded: no ballast, no mast and rigging, no crew or gear. I heard the skipper they chose weighed 130 pounds. In fact, it was recently stated on the Mac discussion group that the PHRF of the Mac 26x has recently been lowered from over 200 to 135. If the boat is as slow as you say, how did it get a PHRF of 135? (And if you should disagree with this or if you want to question the accuracy of this statement, give us a web site or reference sourses on which we can check out whatever you claim it is.) Now that you've admitted that this was a hoax that you bought, "hook, line and sinker," perhaps you should consider what other fantasies you've bought into. If you google "mac 26x phrf" the first hit is: http://www.vycsd.com/summer-comb.pdf I may not have sailed one, but I've sailed by them a number of times. In a small chop they bob around and don't move. The people on board wonder why all the other boats are going by; it doesn't look like fun at all. To my knowledge, and after extensive searching, no one who owns one of the Mac 26M's has posted any comments of that nature. (If you know of such a site, give me a link.) By contrast, the reports I have seen regarding the 26M have been universally positive. I've seen very little about the 26M, but for the 26x from the Sailnet list: When asked about max speed: "My max speed under sail was 6.25 knots on a 90 degree beam reach (wind coming directly off starboard) in a 10 knot wind with 15 knot gusts. What a great day of sailing! I have a combo depth and speedometer on my boat that actually registered 7+ knots but only momentarily during the same run. Two people on board (total) with I'm guessing about 300 lbs of gear and provisions for a week long trip. That 21 mph thing is for powering with no gear, no sail rigging etc. The fastest I've been under power w/ a Honda 50 is 12 to 13 knots - according to my g.p.s. - 14 m.p.h. I hopes this helps." "The best speed, under standard sails, I have ever done is 7 MPH. Checked with GPS." "5.5 knots (est., before I got my GPS)" There were a few impressive comments such as: "Our fastest sustained speed has been 11.2 knots. ... 150 genoa + main ... Winds were at our aft quarter @ 25 knots, gusting to 35. Waves were 4 - 5 feet. We were on a large inland lake. We were surfing on the waves, so some of the speed was certainly from the wave action. ... As a side note, working our way back into those same winds (gusting to 40 knots by that time), the speed was very slow, due to the steep, close wave action. The light weight of the X is a disadvantage when going to weather with any significant wave action." Other comments: "When it gets choppy, you may want to fill the ballast tank. Then you can cruise effortlessly at about 10 mph or about 14-15 max. When the wind is forward of the bow, the ride gets pretty wet above about 10 mph if there is any chop at all. In summary, powering will increase your range, but maybe not as much as you think. It is the trailer that really opens up new areas." From an owner of 4 years: "Initial tenderness: The boat will initially heel the first 10 degrees rather quickly when presented to the wind. Once there, it will become quite stable. This is a feature of all water ballasted boats, as there is no righting moment until the ballast is lifted out of the water, and the long slender CB doesn't present a lot of lateral resistance. "Poor Pointing: Light weight, transom drag, and high freeboard all impair the boats ability to maintain speed pointing high. While the boat will point quite high, you'll sacrifice speed to do so. Sailing about 10 degrees off maximum point, and making wide tacks to maintain speed is one solution. "High freeboard: You'll find the boat makes quite a bit more leeway than your Cat. Windward, you'll find pointing well above the mark and then bearing down to maintain speed around it is effective. Docking in a crosswind can be tricky, but this same light weight makes the helm pretty responsive (NTM having a lot of power available). "Light wind: Not very fast. The relatively small sailplan and the drag created by the CB slot and the flat, square transom. Sometimes these are just the conditions where having high speed ability is nice. I've often powered out into the Strait to higher winds, leaving the other boats behind in the doldrums (going slightly faster than I used to be..) "Waves and Chop: You really have to pay attention to prevent being stopped. Light weight translates into low momentum. Bear into the base of the wave and then bear off as it passes under you. Having a smooth hand on the responsive helm can nearly eliminate this." I have no trouble with someone choosing a Mac because they want to trailer it to flat water lakes. That's what its designed for. But not for taking it offshore. According to the manufacturer, their boat is designed for coastal cruising. Which is what I intend to do. Actually, I think Roger MacGregor's words were "limited coastal cruising" |
I was a Mac26X owner
JAXAshby wrote: can you say "cognitive diffidence"? In other words, you don't really have a substantive answer to my last note? Is that what you mean, JAX? Jim well, I say SPAM!! Bull**** Jim, you're the one being dishonest. I led off the quotes with the comment "I've seen very little about the 26M, but for the 26x from the Sailnet list:" You keep insisting that while the 26X may have been a piece of ****, Actually, I don't recall saying that the 26x was a piece of ****. I have noted above several aspects of the 26x that I didn't like which have been corrected or improved on the 26M. the 26M is a totally different boat. It may be true that the M performs a bit better in some situations, and is a step forward, but they are 95% identical. How can you possibly believe that? The hull design of the 26M is substantially and significantly changed, now having with a deep 16-degree V rather than a relatively flat bottom throughout; the swing keel of the x boat has been replaced by a dagger board that is much more narrow, and that can be adjusted vertically as desired without altering the center of lateral resistance, as with a swing keel; the boat no longer depends on a water ballast exclusively, but additionally includes permanent ballast to enhance stability and provide greater safety when motoring without the water ballast. Additionally, the 26M includes a new rotatable mast, floatation in the mast to minimize the possibility of capsizing, new chain plates, new standing rigging design, more attractive and more comfortable cabin, etc., etc. Virtually every comment about the 26X will be more or less true for the 26M. Adding a few degrees of deadrise to the hull will make the boat handle a bit better in a chop, but it also slows it down in flat water. Haven't you noticed that the top speed list for the M is slower than what used to be claimed for the X? For clarity, this is a potential reduction in top speed under power, not sail. - Yes, I've noticed it, and I'll be happy to sacrifice a little top speed under power in return for enhanced stability and comfort when motoring through chop, and for increased speed and pointing ability under sail. It may be the performance under sail has improved a bit, but frankly it couldn't get much worse. But the sail isn't that much bigger, and the hull isn't that different, and the fundamental problems with the design haven't been changed. See my comments above. I think the boat will perform competitively against most 26-ft boats. But it wasn't designed as a racer, and that's not my primary interest. But if it does perform so much better, why was the salesman afraid to let you test it? He wasn't "afraid" to let me test it. - He didn't have any of the boats in stock. He had sold one other one, that arrived later, and he didn't want me to sail one that had been sold to someone else. He was going to get only one more in the next five months or so, which I ordered. As previously explained, I have sailed a number of MacGregor boats, and the new model has corrected the several problems I saw with the x model, while retaining its advantages and versatility. In discussing the boat with Mac owners, everyone I spoke with who had sailed the 26M was positive regarding the new boat. Jim "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... Once again, your post quotes from owners of Macs, but not owners of Mac 26Ms. One owner states that he has owned his boat for four years. - But the Mac 26M was first sold in 2003, only 10 months ago. (AN OBVIOUSLY DECEPTIVE CITE.) Regarding pointing ability and speed under sail, eveyone I speak with who has saild the 26M tells me that the new hull and keel arrangment are a significant improvement. How about a little more intellectual honesty when repeating quotes like these. Jim Jeff Morris wrote: "Jim Cate" wrote in message ... You could have sailed the boat yourself. I suppose the dealer told you that is not possible now because he doesn't have a demonstrator. I have sailed several of the previous models, and I've been following their development and improvements for over 10 years. The Mac 26M incorporates several changes that I had wanted to see in the other boats. Regarding sailing the boat, however, it is almost impossible to get a dealer to permit you to sail the boat out because of the very limited supply and heavy demand for the boats. Especially on April 1. Or, you could listen to what owners say. (Owners of what? The 26x? And, why should I listen to what the owners say, since you just warned me (in the note copied below) that the owners can't be trusted since they don't want to admit that they made a mistake in buying the boat. No, you just have to be careful when you interpret them. The comments of a novice sailer who just spent $30K are not that reliable. You can find dozens of comments that the top speed under power in flat water to be 12-13 knots, and that it could be hard to get on a plane in a moderate chop. Yet you keep insisting you can make 18 knots offshore. (Top speed of what? The 26x?) From the comments I have seen on various ngs, the X has sailed and motored much faster than that. Yes, there are people that power very "light" and get more speed. There are also people that almost did it once and talk about like its an everyday occurrence. But if you go through the lists you'll find people that give more believable accounts. The web site itself is explicit that 18 knots is completely unloaded: no ballast, no mast and rigging, no crew or gear. I heard the skipper they chose weighed 130 pounds. In fact, it was recently stated on the Mac discussion group that the PHRF of the Mac 26x has recently been lowered from over 200 to 135. If the boat is as slow as you say, how did it get a PHRF of 135? (And if you should disagree with this or if you want to question the accuracy of this statement, give us a web site or reference sourses on which we can check out whatever you claim it is.) Now that you've admitted that this was a hoax that you bought, "hook, line and sinker," perhaps you should consider what other fantasies you've bought into. If you google "mac 26x phrf" the first hit is: http://www.vycsd.com/summer-comb.pdf I may not have sailed one, but I've sailed by them a number of times. In a small chop they bob around and don't move. The people on board wonder why all the other boats are going by; it doesn't look like fun at all. To my knowledge, and after extensive searching, no one who owns one of the Mac 26M's has posted any comments of that nature. (If you know of such a site, give me a link.) By contrast, the reports I have seen regarding the 26M have been universally positive. I've seen very little about the 26M, but for the 26x from the Sailnet list: When asked about max speed: "My max speed under sail was 6.25 knots on a 90 degree beam reach (wind coming directly off starboard) in a 10 knot wind with 15 knot gusts. What a great day of sailing! I have a combo depth and speedometer on my boat that actually registered 7+ knots but only momentarily during the same run. Two people on board (total) with I'm guessing about 300 lbs of gear and provisions for a week long trip. That 21 mph thing is for powering with no gear, no sail rigging etc. The fastest I've been under power w/ a Honda 50 is 12 to 13 knots - according to my g.p.s. - 14 m.p.h. I hopes this helps." "The best speed, under standard sails, I have ever done is 7 MPH. Checked with GPS." "5.5 knots (est., before I got my GPS)" There were a few impressive comments such as: "Our fastest sustained speed has been 11.2 knots. ... 150 genoa + main ... Winds were at our aft quarter @ 25 knots, gusting to 35. Waves were 4 - 5 feet. We were on a large inland lake. We were surfing on the waves, so some of the speed was certainly from the wave action. ... As a side note, working our way back into those same winds (gusting to 40 knots by that time), the speed was very slow, due to the steep, close wave action. The light weight of the X is a disadvantage when going to weather with any significant wave action." Other comments: "When it gets choppy, you may want to fill the ballast tank. Then you can cruise effortlessly at about 10 mph or about 14-15 max. When the wind is forward of the bow, the ride gets pretty wet above about 10 mph if there is any chop at all. In summary, powering will increase your range, but maybe not as much as you think. It is the trailer that really opens up new areas." From an owner of 4 years: "Initial tenderness: The boat will initially heel the first 10 degrees rather quickly when presented to the wind. Once there, it will become quite stable. This is a feature of all water ballasted boats, as there is no righting moment until the ballast is lifted out of the water, and the long slender CB doesn't present a lot of lateral resistance. "Poor Pointing: Light weight, transom drag, and high freeboard all impair the boats ability to maintain speed pointing high. While the boat will point quite high, you'll sacrifice speed to do so. Sailing about 10 degrees off maximum point, and making wide tacks to maintain speed is one solution. "High freeboard: You'll find the boat makes quite a bit more leeway than your Cat. Windward, you'll find pointing well above the mark and then bearing down to maintain speed around it is effective. Docking in a crosswind can be tricky, but this same light weight makes the helm pretty responsive (NTM having a lot of power available). "Light wind: Not very fast. The relatively small sailplan and the drag created by the CB slot and the flat, square transom. Sometimes these are just the conditions where having high speed ability is nice. I've often powered out into the Strait to higher winds, leaving the other boats behind in the doldrums (going slightly faster than I used to be..) "Waves and Chop: You really have to pay attention to prevent being stopped. Light weight translates into low momentum. Bear into the base of the wave and then bear off as it passes under you. Having a smooth hand on the responsive helm can nearly eliminate this." I have no trouble with someone choosing a Mac because they want to trailer it to flat water lakes. That's what its designed for. But not for taking it offshore. According to the manufacturer, their boat is designed for coastal cruising. Which is what I intend to do. Actually, I think Roger MacGregor's words were "limited coastal cruising" |
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