What would you do? For a map of the lake see
http://ace.net.au/schooner/mlakes.htm

Gales on Lake Alexandrina last weekend. A 30'
cruising cat coming home to Milang flipped. A father and 2 kids
aged 8
and 12 were aboard finishing a weekend cruise. None of them
strangers to bad weather on the lake. Kids stayed (temporarily)
dry in inverted bridgedeck cabin
but dad got blown/washed off inverted hull. AT that point the cat
flipped and dad flew,
he was about 200m from
the northern lake shore (tacking against a NW gale). The boat
blew
SE faster than he could swim with PFD on, so presumably the mast
snapped in the flip (water depth about 3 metres)
he swam ashore to raise help. Kids were taken off the boat,
which by then was sinking, about four hours and 11 n miles SE of
capsize point,
heading toward the southeastern shores of the lake. Kids had
been in
water by then about half an hour (cabin eventually flooded). Kids
were a bit cold but otherwise OK. Waves on the lake 5 feet,
breaking (maximum height for the
water depth). No one else out. No ready rescue: Sea Rescue has to
trailer in from other towns once the dad raised the alarm.



--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Learn what lies below the waves of cyberspace!
http://www.internetopera.netfirms.com

I'm real curious to know the model of the cat. 30 feet is on the small size for
catamaran safety because the general design which has proven to be safe in sizes
over 35 feet doesn't scale downward very well. In particular, the beam
sometimes gets reduced more than prudent so that it will fit in a slip. Also,
the weight doesn't get reduced proportionately, so the rig is sometimes
oversized. And since bridge clearance is desirable, the rig is often as high as
on bigger cats. The net result is a cat that's too narrow, too tall, and
overcanvased.

Still, to be considered a "cruising cat" it should have enough stability to stay
upright in 40+ winds with full sail oversheeted. Several cases of small cats I
know of flipping involved totally incompetent skippers , full sail, and large
waves.

Moreover, there's no reason for a catamaran to sink. Most modern designs have
several positive floatation chambers.

-jeff




"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...
What would you do? For a map of the lake see
http://ace.net.au/schooner/mlakes.htm

Gales on Lake Alexandrina last weekend. A 30'
cruising cat coming home to Milang flipped. A father and 2 kids
aged 8
and 12 were aboard finishing a weekend cruise. None of them
strangers to bad weather on the lake. Kids stayed (temporarily)
dry in inverted bridgedeck cabin
but dad got blown/washed off inverted hull. AT that point the cat
flipped and dad flew,
he was about 200m from
the northern lake shore (tacking against a NW gale). The boat
blew
SE faster than he could swim with PFD on, so presumably the mast
snapped in the flip (water depth about 3 metres)
he swam ashore to raise help. Kids were taken off the boat,
which by then was sinking, about four hours and 11 n miles SE of
capsize point,
heading toward the southeastern shores of the lake. Kids had
been in
water by then about half an hour (cabin eventually flooded). Kids
were a bit cold but otherwise OK. Waves on the lake 5 feet,
breaking (maximum height for the
water depth). No one else out. No ready rescue: Sea Rescue has to
trailer in from other towns once the dad raised the alarm.



--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Learn what lies below the waves of cyberspace!
http://www.internetopera.netfirms.com

huh?

"Jeff Morris" wrote in ...
And since bridge clearance is desirable, the rig is often as high as
on bigger cats.

The bridge clearance is the height above the water in the middle of the cat.
Large cats can easily have several feet of clearance to avoid slapping waves,
but with small cats if the designer tries to have reasonable clearance above the
waves, plus standing headroom in the cabin, plus visibility from the helm, you
end up with a "top heavy" design. In truth, the narrow beam of older designs is
a bigger problem.

The Maine Cat 30 is an example of a cat that avoids this problem with an open
bridge and a wide beam. The Iroquois is one that is too narrow, and hence has
been know to flip.

http://www.mecat.com/
http://www.17mo.fsnet.co.uk/Brochure.../Iroquois1.htm



"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
huh?

"Jeff Morris" wrote in ...
And since bridge clearance is desirable, the rig is often as high as
on bigger cats.

Oh, I was thinking of the other 'bridge clearance' .


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
The bridge clearance is the height above the water in the middle of the
cat.
Large cats can easily have several feet of clearance to avoid slapping
waves,
but with small cats if the designer tries to have reasonable clearance
above the
waves, plus standing headroom in the cabin, plus visibility from the helm,
you
end up with a "top heavy" design. In truth, the narrow beam of older
designs is
a bigger problem.

The Maine Cat 30 is an example of a cat that avoids this problem with an
open
bridge and a wide beam. The Iroquois is one that is too narrow, and hence
has
been know to flip.

http://www.mecat.com/
http://www.17mo.fsnet.co.uk/Brochure.../Iroquois1.htm



"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
huh?

"Jeff Morris" wrote in ...
And since bridge clearance is desirable, the rig is often as high as
on bigger cats.

Jeff Morris wrote:

I'm real curious to know the model of the cat. 30 feet is on the small size for
catamaran safety because the general design which has proven to be safe in sizes
over 35 feet doesn't scale downward very well.

Don't know. The name doesn't ring any bells and there were no
photos of it. 30 feet is on the large size for most boats on the
Murray Lakes, and most monohulls are trailable yachts (there are
now _two_ Mac26x's, too...)


Still, to be considered a "cruising cat" it should have enough stability to stay
upright in 40+ winds with full sail oversheeted. Several cases of small cats I
know of flipping involved totally incompetent skippers , full sail, and large
waves.

OK, loose language. it was a cat with bridgedeck cabin used for
cruising, as distinct from the cabinless off-the-beach cats which
infest Milang

Moreover, there's no reason for a catamaran to sink. Most modern designs have
several positive floatation chambers.

Hadn't sunk. Was "in the process of sinking". Kids eventually
were in the water with waves going over them but still had a
submerged hull to stand on.


--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Learn what lies below the waves of cyberspace!
http://www.internetopera.netfirms.com

Flying Tadpole wrote:

What would you do? The boat
blew
SE faster than he could swim with PFD on,

If it were my kids I'd most likely do something stupid; I'd dump
the PFD and swim like hell for the boat. No way in hell would I let
them get away! Course I could end up dying trying that trick, but
when it's my kids logic flies out the window!

Cheers
Marty

There was a well publicized case of a family sailing an F27 on the Potomac.
One child fell overboard, and both parents jumped in after it, leaving the boat
flying away with two other small children on board. Fortunately, someone on
shore saw what happened and all were rescued. After reading that, my wife and I
discussed how we would handle such emergencies.


"Martin Baxter" wrote in message
...
Flying Tadpole wrote:

What would you do? The boat
blew
SE faster than he could swim with PFD on,

If it were my kids I'd most likely do something stupid; I'd dump
the PFD and swim like hell for the boat. No way in hell would I let
them get away! Course I could end up dying trying that trick, but
when it's my kids logic flies out the window!

Cheers
Marty

What did you decide?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
There was a well publicized case of a family sailing an F27 on the
Potomac.
One child fell overboard, and both parents jumped in after it, leaving the
boat
flying away with two other small children on board. Fortunately, someone
on
shore saw what happened and all were rescued. After reading that, my wife
and I
discussed how we would handle such emergencies.


"Martin Baxter" wrote in message
...
Flying Tadpole wrote:

What would you do? The boat
blew
SE faster than he could swim with PFD on,

If it were my kids I'd most likely do something stupid; I'd dump
the PFD and swim like hell for the boat. No way in hell would I let
them get away! Course I could end up dying trying that trick, but
when it's my kids logic flies out the window!

Cheers
Marty

Assuming we're both on deck and the kid takes a dive, my wife might go in, if
she felt it was best, but I would not. My wife is a much better swimmer than
boat handler, while I'm a weaker swimmer, but can singlehand in any situation.
Now that my daughter and the dog are better swimmers than I the choices seem
clear. We couldn't see a situation where my jumping in would improve our
collective chances.

However, if an emergency does arise, it probably won't be something we
anticipate. I've spent a lot of time thinking about various "overboard,
underway" situations so I think my first reflexes might be good, but lately I've
wondered what to do if someone falls off while we're anchored in a strong
current.

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
What did you decide?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
There was a well publicized case of a family sailing an F27 on the
Potomac.
One child fell overboard, and both parents jumped in after it, leaving the
boat
flying away with two other small children on board. Fortunately, someone
on
shore saw what happened and all were rescued. After reading that, my wife
and I
discussed how we would handle such emergencies.


"Martin Baxter" wrote in message
...
Flying Tadpole wrote:

What would you do? The boat
blew
SE faster than he could swim with PFD on,

If it were my kids I'd most likely do something stupid; I'd dump
the PFD and swim like hell for the boat. No way in hell would I let
them get away! Course I could end up dying trying that trick, but
when it's my kids logic flies out the window!

Cheers
Marty