John Cairns wrote:

"Jim Cate" scribbled furiously
...


John, if you were defending your position in a discussion with 30 idiot
sailors simultaneously posting distortions and personal attacks at you,
you would have to "scribble" fast also. If the discussion was only
between me and one or two others, my notes might not be so rough. - I'm
not complaining. But it needs to be considered as part of the equation.


You got the next best thing, good advice, including taking one for a

test

sail, which you pointedly ignored. Based on the content of your posts


This particular point is well taken. I do acknowledge that I don't have
personal experience sailing one of the new 26M models. I'm basing my
decision on comments from 26M owners and from experience on previous Macs.



one

could only reasonably conclude that they were either a troll or spam.

The

only other conclusions one could come to would be that you are an

extremely

inexperienced sailor, an extremely gullible individual, or both.
Good luck, you'll need it.
John Cairns


I'll need lots of luck?

Am I going to be swamped? Is my Mac going to sink to the bottom of the
bay? (Actually, no. The Mac has enough flotation to keep the boat and
multiple passengers afloat.)


If you are in that much fear of drowning, you should probably stay ashore.
Hint: Most folks drown because they fall overboard, not because their boat
sank.


I'm not in fear of drowning, but it's also true that Galveston has some
pretty tricky channels and jetty situations. (My charter company in
this area prohibits their customers from taking the boats down to
Galveston and offshore because of such hazards. It's also the case that
we may have several small children in the boat from time to time.

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 for blister treatment and bottom
refinishing? (Nope. Not if the boat is out of the water most of the time.)


Anti-blister treatment? $5000 bottom refinishing? Hint: Buy a boat that
doesn't need a bottom job. Hint 2: Learn how to apply bottom paint, quite
easily done, probably even in your case.


Actually, I was seriously considering several used boats in the 30 -
36-foot range. We didn't get as far as making an offer and getting a
survey, however, because most of the boats were going to have at least
one major repair or expense. - Either a new bottom, or a motor overhaul,
or a new interior, etc. There are also the other considerations relative
to the versatility of the Mac for different uses and environments. (We
can't very well go swimming with 4-year old grandkids in 7 feet of
water, we can't do much fishing in the bays, and I don't think they
would appreciate long motor voyages, for example.



Am I going to have stuck through-hulls, and rising water from an unknown
leak in a hose connected to one of the throughull valves? (Nope. The
hull doesn't need them.)


So I guess that means porta potties and no "indoor plumbing" on your boat,
right? Claims to the contrary aside, most sailors like to bathe
occasionally, nice to not have to go ashore to do this. We're on fresh water
lakes here but bathing in them isn't the same as nice, hot shower on the
boat. Definitely not nice in salt water.


We will have a good supply of handiwipes. Also, with all the money we
save ont he boat, we will be able to stop in some pretty nice marinas
and stay in some nice hotels when we want to.



Am I going to have to spend $5,000 overhauling the diesel? (Nope. It
comes with a new outboard.)


Again, see above. Buy a boat that doesn't need to have the diesel
overhauled. Hint: Most boats with inboard diesels have engine hour meters.
Hint #2: Being nice, a bonus. If you don't maintain your $4000 50 h.p.
outboard, how much do you think it will cost to repair? Generally, you read
of small outboards being an advantage on a sailboat, after all, they're
cheaper than inboard diesels and can easily be removed if they do have to be
sent to the shop for repairs. I don't think you can make this claim of the
large outboards typically found hung on the transom of macs.


I'll try to take good care of the motor and keep it running well as long
as I can. As stated above, most of the used boats we looked at had at
least one expensive problem. Either the motor, the bottom, the interior,
or something else.


Is the boat going to capsize, or is the standing rigging going to come

loose such that the boat founders or flips over? (I haven't seen many
news reports this year about any Mac sailors losing their lives.)


See above for info about drowning particulars. No, I doubt if the standing
rigging will ever come off of your mac because you won't sail the thing in
winds north of 10 kts.

Well, your right that I don't intend to go out in heavy weather very
often. Nothing over 70 knots, in any case.



Even if it does, you can replace it with clothesline,
just as strong in all likelihood. Seriously though, another hint, the
standing rigging and the rig period are somewhat of a joke on the mac. My
boathook is as large a diameter as the boom on the Mac. Hey, another great
idea! If the boom ever breaks(not likely, see above reasons) you can replace
it with a boat hook, hell, a sturdy broom handle will probably do!



Real funny, John, but not very substantive. Tell me. - Why should a
3,500-lb boat with very small sail area need, or be expected to have,
the same kind of standing rigging required on a 35,000 boat with a
10,000-lb. keel? That seems to be your thesis.


Am I going to go aground, and is the boat going to flip over on its
side and require expensive rescue services? (Probably not, since it can
float in 12 inches of water or can be motored onto a beach if desired.)


Again, see above. Since I own something larger than a dinghy, I'm not
generally concerned with the boat "flipping over".


John, you didn't read the question carefully. What I described was a
keel boat going aground, and leaning over on its side, as would be the
case in some of our shallow waters if the tide goes down while the boat
is stuck on the bottom. In the Galveston-Kemah area, we have lots of
shallow and marginal areas, and some of the channels are not well
maintained, making it rather easy to go aground. (Of course, being the
good sailor that I am, it hasn't happened to me, but it might.) My point
was that this difficulty would be substantially eliminated with the Mac
26M because of its extremely shallow draft when not sailing.

Something you learn when
you take that "basic" sailing course,

By strange coincidence, I DID attend an introductory ASA sailing course
last weekend as a review (since I haven't had time to do much sailing in
several years due to my work requirements) and so that my wife would get
into the sailing experience. I made a 98 on their 130-question test. It
doesn't mean I'm a sailor, of course, but it does suggest that perhaps
I'm not an absolute novice. (As mentioned previously, I have chartered
a number of larger boats under various conditions.)

when the wind pipes up or the boat
develops excessive weather helm, reduce the sail area. If you need a
definition of "weather helm" I'll be happy to provide one. Extra hint: I pay
$50 dollars a year for practically unlimited towing services through
Boat/US, something I would strongly suggest you do because if your boat EVER
develops outboard trouble you'll never be able to SAIL it back.

Thanks for the suggestions. However, I rather think that I will be able
to sail the boat back to port without the motor.


Am I going to be stranded off-shore in unexpected weather conditions? -
(Actually, since the boat can motor back at 18 mph, it has a better
chance of getting back to shore faster than a displacement boat. - I'll
also pay careful attention to weather conditions, of course, and intend
to be more conservative about going out in marginal conditions.)


I don't know how to break the news to you, but if you ever run into any seas
at all you won't be able to motor at 18 kts.

Obviously, one would want to monitor any questionable or changing
weather conditions and motor back ahead of the weather, rather than
trying to extricate oneself from heavy seas.


And do pay careful attention to
the weather, for a mac, "marginal conditions" will mean winds much north of
10 kts.

Thanks for the warnings. - I do intend to limit my sailing to winds of
70-knots or less.


Do I need to plan on loosing lots and lots of money from depreciation of
the boat? (Perhaps. But demand for the new model continues to greatly
exceed the supply. By comparison, most of the displacement boats we
looked at had depreciated over 80% to 90%, when adjusted for inflation.
Also, less money is being committed in the first place, so there is less
on the table that could be lost.)


Are we from the same planet? If you want to know how much your mac will be
worth before the ink dries on the sales contract all you have to do is run a
quick search at:
http://www.yachtworld.com/


I've spent considerable time on yachtworld.com in the last two months.
If you check the prices on Mac 26Ms, with 50 hp motors, you will be
surprised to find the prices holding rather well. Of course, I expect
some depreciation in coming years, but depreciation of a $25,000 boat
isn't quite as alarming as depreciation on a $200,000 to $300,000 boat.
We saw many, many rather nice used boats selling for less than 10% of
the cost of a comparable new one. I agree that boat ownership isn't a
reasonable financial investment, but I'm not putting much money into the
deal to begin with.

You might consider why all these happy mac owners are selling their boats, I
dobt if they're lining up to buy the "new" model.

MacGregor has sold more than 35,000 boats, and they sold more than 7,000 of
their previous 26X model. When you have that many
boats in use, you can expect to see more of them on sale. - I see many
more Chevrolets and Fords for sail than Rolls or Ferraris, etc. It
relates to the supply as well as the demand.




Of course, it's also possible that the earth may get hit in the next few
months by an invisible space ship heading our way from somewhere in the
Virgo constellation, initiating a new 1,000-year ice age. - Gee. Hope my
luck holds out and I can get some sailing in before the impact.

Jim

It might also be possible that you could form a logical argument, but I'm
not holding my breath either.
John Cairns

See above. I happen to be an attorney, and I can assure you that my
win-loss record is fairly good. Hard to understand if everything I say
is that illogical.
Jim

Jim admits BIG sailing boo-boo:
I do acknowledge that I don't have
personal experience sailing one of the new 26M models

You actually bought a boat that you did not test sail????I don't care
whether it's a Mac 26M or a Swan 50...you don't buy a boat without sailing
it first....DUMB thing to do...really DUMB....So, if when you get this boat
and you hate how it sails, hate the stiffness, hate the fussiness of the
ballast tanks, etc. are you going to admit that to us?
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Well Katy, he did say that he'd be taking it out in all wind speeds
up to about 70kts., so I don't think we have to worry about him!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katysails" wrote in message
...
Jim admits BIG sailing boo-boo:
I do acknowledge that I don't have
personal experience sailing one of the new 26M models

You actually bought a boat that you did not test sail????I don't care
whether it's a Mac 26M or a Swan 50...you don't buy a boat without sailing
it first....DUMB thing to do...really DUMB....So, if when you get this
boat
and you hate how it sails, hate the stiffness, hate the fussiness of the
ballast tanks, etc. are you going to admit that to us?
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

katysails wrote:

Jim admits BIG sailing boo-boo:
I do acknowledge that I don't have
personal experience sailing one of the new 26M models

You actually bought a boat that you did not test sail????I don't care
whether it's a Mac 26M or a Swan 50...you don't buy a boat without sailing
it first....DUMB thing to do...really DUMB....So, if when you get this boat
and you hate how it sails, hate the stiffness, hate the fussiness of the
ballast tanks, etc. are you going to admit that to us?

Yep. I'm basing my judgement on experience sailing previous models, and
on speaking with several who have sailed them, and on the incremental
changes made in succeeding models.

As you may note, I have refrained from making any statements regarding
the sailing charactistics and handling of the new model. - I'll be able
to provide that informatin in about three months.

On the other hand, I notice that others on this ng don't hesitate to
issue dogmatic statements regarding the sailing characteristics of the
boat, despite the fact that they haven't sailed it, and in most cases,
don't know anyone who has.

Jim

MacBoy,

I thought you said there were dramatic changes for the M?? Sounds
to me like you're just lying again.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


katysails wrote:

Jim admits BIG sailing boo-boo:
I do acknowledge that I don't have
personal experience sailing one of the new 26M models

You actually bought a boat that you did not test sail????I don't care
whether it's a Mac 26M or a Swan 50...you don't buy a boat without
sailing
it first....DUMB thing to do...really DUMB....So, if when you get this
boat
and you hate how it sails, hate the stiffness, hate the fussiness of the
ballast tanks, etc. are you going to admit that to us?

Yep. I'm basing my judgement on experience sailing previous models, and
on speaking with several who have sailed them, and on the incremental
changes made in succeeding models.

As you may note, I have refrained from making any statements regarding
the sailing charactistics and handling of the new model. - I'll be able
to provide that informatin in about three months.

On the other hand, I notice that others on this ng don't hesitate to
issue dogmatic statements regarding the sailing characteristics of the
boat, despite the fact that they haven't sailed it, and in most cases,
don't know anyone who has.

Jim

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

MacBoy,

I thought you said there were dramatic changes for the M?? Sounds
to me like you're just lying again.


Dramatic, incremental changes.

Jim

Sort of like your mental development since childhood?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jonathan Ganz wrote:

MacBoy,

I thought you said there were dramatic changes for the M?? Sounds
to me like you're just lying again.


Dramatic, incremental changes.

Jim

Jim answered:
Yep. I'm basing my judgement on experience sailing previous models, and
on speaking with several who have sailed them, and on the incremental
changes made in succeeding models.

That;s how Buzi Boy bought his Hunter. Maybe the two of you should get
together and compare notes.
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Jim Cate wrote:

This particular point is well taken. I do acknowledge that I don't
have personal experience sailing one of the new 26M models. I'm
basing my decision on comments from 26M owners and from experience on
previous Macs.

You bought a 20K boat and you haven't even tried one out?


Well, your right that I don't intend to go out in heavy weather very
often. Nothing over 70 knots, in any case.

What a ridiculously blatant troll - you're going to take a beginner's boat
out in a hurricane, are you?

You are Capt RB and I claim my five pounds.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk/music

Now please. I've been saying he's an idiot from the beginning.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Wally" wrote in message
...
Jim Cate wrote:

This particular point is well taken. I do acknowledge that I don't
have personal experience sailing one of the new 26M models. I'm
basing my decision on comments from 26M owners and from experience on
previous Macs.

You bought a 20K boat and you haven't even tried one out?


Well, your right that I don't intend to go out in heavy weather very
often. Nothing over 70 knots, in any case.

What a ridiculously blatant troll - you're going to take a beginner's boat
out in a hurricane, are you?

You are Capt RB and I claim my five pounds.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk/music