Jeff Morris wrote:

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Scott Vernon wrote:


I could buy a jetski and make the same statements that you did, only then I
wouldn't really be sailing, and neither will you.



I'm getting a boat that's capable of motoring in 1.5 feet of water and
sailing offshore, motoring at 18 knots


No its not. If that's what the salesman told you, he lied. And shame on you
for believing it. The web site was quite emphatic that it could only do that
with no rigging, no ballast, one person on board, in a flat calm. Maybe loaded
up you'll do 12, if its flat.


If you say so, Jeff.

Jim




to a desired destination, and
having a cabin big enough for several adults and children. - Hardly the
equivalent of a jetski or a kayak. Your comments are ridiculous ont
their face.

Jim

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Your face is a ridiculous comment.

Wow! What a brilliant, erudite note.

(Johathan, get a grip on yourself. - You're obviously loosing it, and
you're making an ass of yourself in front of all your buddies plus
eveyone around the world who may be reading these notes.)

Jim

katysails wrote:

Jim admits BIG sailing boo-boo:
I do acknowledge that I don't have
personal experience sailing one of the new 26M models

You actually bought a boat that you did not test sail????I don't care
whether it's a Mac 26M or a Swan 50...you don't buy a boat without sailing
it first....DUMB thing to do...really DUMB....So, if when you get this boat
and you hate how it sails, hate the stiffness, hate the fussiness of the
ballast tanks, etc. are you going to admit that to us?

Yep. I'm basing my judgement on experience sailing previous models, and
on speaking with several who have sailed them, and on the incremental
changes made in succeeding models.

As you may note, I have refrained from making any statements regarding
the sailing charactistics and handling of the new model. - I'll be able
to provide that informatin in about three months.

On the other hand, I notice that others on this ng don't hesitate to
issue dogmatic statements regarding the sailing characteristics of the
boat, despite the fact that they haven't sailed it, and in most cases,
don't know anyone who has.

Jim

MacBoy,

Thank you. I appreciate the fact that eventually you tell the truth.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Your face is a ridiculous comment.

Wow! What a brilliant, erudite note.

(Johathan, get a grip on yourself. - You're obviously loosing it, and
you're making an ass of yourself in front of all your buddies plus
eveyone around the world who may be reading these notes.)

Jim

MacBoy,

I thought you said there were dramatic changes for the M?? Sounds
to me like you're just lying again.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


katysails wrote:

Jim admits BIG sailing boo-boo:
I do acknowledge that I don't have
personal experience sailing one of the new 26M models

You actually bought a boat that you did not test sail????I don't care
whether it's a Mac 26M or a Swan 50...you don't buy a boat without
sailing
it first....DUMB thing to do...really DUMB....So, if when you get this
boat
and you hate how it sails, hate the stiffness, hate the fussiness of the
ballast tanks, etc. are you going to admit that to us?

Yep. I'm basing my judgement on experience sailing previous models, and
on speaking with several who have sailed them, and on the incremental
changes made in succeeding models.

As you may note, I have refrained from making any statements regarding
the sailing charactistics and handling of the new model. - I'll be able
to provide that informatin in about three months.

On the other hand, I notice that others on this ng don't hesitate to
issue dogmatic statements regarding the sailing characteristics of the
boat, despite the fact that they haven't sailed it, and in most cases,
don't know anyone who has.

Jim

John Cairns wrote:

"Jim Cate" scribbled furiously
...

Thanks for the warnings. - I do intend to limit my sailing to winds of
70-knots or less.

If you check the prices on Mac 26Ms, with 50 hp motors, you will be
surprised to find the prices holding rather well.

made a 98 on their 130-question test.

What I described was a keel boat going aground

Also, with all the money we
save ont he boat, we will be able to stop in some pretty nice marinas
and stay in some nice hotels when we want to.


Mainly doing self favor, snipping all of the miscellaneous bits........

Not in any particular order.............
1. Charts-they have all kinds of interesting info, like water depths, for
example.

Actually, I've sailed the area only charts and a compass, following the
channels, dodging the shrimpers and the ships going down the Houston
ship channel, and aligning the boat, sailing offshore, and returning
using the charts and observations of buoys marking the channels, in
daytime and night conditions. But when doing so in a heavy displacement
boat, you are limited to a very small portion of the waters in the
Houston - Galveston area, and you have to follow some pretty narrow,
shallow channels to get to favorable anchorages.

Jim


2. The overwhelming majority of folks who drown in boating accidents do so
BECAUSE THEY FALL OVERBOARD.
You can fill a mac with enough flotation to levitate it off the surface of
the water, still won't prevent you from falling overboard, and drowning.

Good point. I'll remember to take special care not to fall overboard in
rough weather and to take all necessary precautions with any crew or
passengers. Nevertheless, the fact that the boat has the capability of
staying afloat even if the hull is compromised IS a desirable safety
factor.


3. You can't prove you've sailed in winds of 30 kts., much less 70.


Probably not. But I have.

Jim



4. A gazillion(great word, ain't it) used boats out there and you claim you
can't find any that meet your needs as well as a mac.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.

Actually, I did see several I liked, and I was ready to put money down
on the Cal 34. However, there were problems with each of the boats we
looked at. - Either engine repairs, mechanical issues, crappy interior,
etc. Regarding the Cal, my wife couldn't take the rough interior. (If
it were entirely up to me, I would have paid someone to replace the
headliner, upholstery, etc.) Our decision to go with the Mac was based
on the thought that we would probably use it more often, and the it's
"time-related" advantages would permit us to get more time in the waters
we want to sail, fish, swim, or picnic in.

Jim


5. http://www.sungrill.com/Sailboat/MacGregor26X.htm#2001 A fabulous
investment, no doubt, all these newer macs are for sale because folks are
just dying to upgrade to a 26M!

Well, they seem to come out with new models every 7-8 years. So far, the
26M's are very scarce, and they are selling for about what the cost.


6. I guess all your "clients" are innocent, Jax must have been mistaken when
he got you mixed up with that aluminum siding salesman. Off point, though
probably true and worth repeating.

I suppose that posting childish, ad homonym remarks like that one gives
you some sort of pleasure, though I really think that you should be able
to find some other way to spend your time.


7. The $14,000 in initial depreciation would pay for quite a few years at
most marinas, not to mention hotels. Again, I've pointed this out before,
you act as if the words in the mac sales literature came from a burning
bush. I can assure you(you'll have to trust me on this) they did not. BTW,
we've had enough macaniacs stumble in here before that liked to quote the
mac sales literature, I can assure you, we've heard it all before, didn't
add up then, doesn't now.


And I can assure you that I've heard most of the Mac-bashing comments
before also. Regarding depreciation, there are several factors.
MacGregor doesn't change models very often, this being the first major
change in some 7 years. If you check Yachtworld.com for prices of the
25M models for sale, you will find that there are very few available,
and those that list the price are selling for almost what the new ones
cost. Secondly, remember that, if I bought a new displacement boat, I
would have to put lots more money into the boat in the first place.
Thus, although the depreciation over ten years might be a smaller
percentage, it would be greater in terms of total dollars. (Check out
the price of a 30-35-ft sloop from any of the popular manufactures new,
and compare it with a comparable boat 10 years old.) The costs of
financing an insuring a new boat are another consideration. Regarding
older boats, in which the prices have fallen even more, we had to
consider the expenses involved in maintenance, marina fees, taxes,
repairs, etc. In looking at a number of used boats, I learned that many
of them had been sitting on the market for many, many months with no
takers. - Lot's of "highly motivated" sellers. This left me somewhat
concerned about the situation when it became time for me to sell the
boat. Would I, or my wife, be stuck with a boat that simply won't sell?
The newer MacGregors, with 50 hp motors, don't seem to stay on the
market for long, and they can be marketed to potential buyers in a large
region of the country, since the costs of trailoring it, even to another
State, are relatively minimal.

8. And of course, you admitted as much yourself, why would a 26' sailboat
with the sail area of a typical queen-sized bedsheet need a sturdy rig.
Which is what we've been trying to tell you all along. You will be extremely
disappointed with how a mac SAILS!!!!!!!!! This is a SAILING ng and that is
precisely the point. Roger likes to say that the mac powersailers "sail
better than a powerboat and motor better than a sailboat" Think CAREFULLY
about that first line, "sails better than a powerboat" What do you think
he's trying to tell you?

Again, why would I need standing rigging such as that used on a large
displacement vessel boat for a relatively lightweight boat that only
requires 300 square feet of sail? I'm continually amazed that this
difference seems to be completely ignored by those criticizing the
standing and running rigging of the Mac. Regarding the sailing
characteristics of the Mac 26M, everyone I speak with who has sailed her
has favorable things to say about the boat. Since neither you nor I
have sailed her, however, I'm going to delay answering you specifically
until next month, when I should be able to make a more detailed report.



9. Yes, you are correct, doing well on an ASA multiple guess test proves
absolutely nothing.

Actually, from the comments received from you and others on this ng, I
understand that you not only think I know nothing about sailing but that
you also consider me to be stupid, uniformed, illogical, etc. If all
that were true, I should have scored something like 40% or perhaps 50%
on the test. (Remember, I'm stupid and know almost nothing about
sailing, boats, navigation, etc.) By the way, if you think the ASA exam
is a simple multiple choice test that anyone can guess his way through,
think again. Also, two days of sailing and tests on the boat under
differing conditions, different points of sail, man-overboard drills,
docking, etc., are involved.) The point isn't that scoring well on the
test indicates I'm an experienced sailor. On the other hand, getting 128
out of 130 questions right does suggest that I'm not a bumbling idiot.

Jim

John Cairns

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

No. She means you're a dummy.


As mentioned above, I scored over 98 on the basic ASA sailing test
recently, which I took with my wife and as a review. 130 questions,
right of way, navigation, boat types, boat characteristics, ancoring,
docking, emergency precautions, drills on the boats with tests o the
water, man over board, etc.

Must have been blind luck, right? Just a short, multiple choice quiz?

Jim

Jim answered:
Yep. I'm basing my judgement on experience sailing previous models, and
on speaking with several who have sailed them, and on the incremental
changes made in succeeding models.

That;s how Buzi Boy bought his Hunter. Maybe the two of you should get
together and compare notes.
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

I'm getting a boat that's capable of motoring in 1.5 feet of water and
sailing offshore, motoring at 18 knots


No its not. If that's what the salesman told you, he lied. And shame on
you
for believing it. The web site was quite emphatic that it could only do
that
with no rigging, no ballast, one person on board, in a flat calm. Maybe
loaded
up you'll do 12, if its flat.


If you say so, Jeff.


Its not, its their own web site. First, they claim 22 MPH, which is a bit over
18 knots. But, they admit that's with a stripped boat, one person, no ballast.
They say ballast drops it 3 mph, so we're down to a bit over 15 knots. Then we
have to subtract one knot for each 100 pounds. Start with a mast, rigging and
sails and we're under 14. How about another adult and 2 kids, with food,
clothing, etc. That pretty easily brings it down to 10 knots, and we're still
assuming flat seas. This is still faster than most smaller sailboats, but not
that much faster.

In fact, it really means that if it takes you an hour to get 10 miles to open
water, another boat might take and extra half hour. However, once there,
however, you have a **** poor sailboat. For the same 32K the mac cost, you
could have had a vastly superior used boat.

1) I don't believe you.
2) I teach the class.
3) You're an idiot.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jonathan Ganz wrote:

No. She means you're a dummy.


As mentioned above, I scored over 98 on the basic ASA sailing test
recently, which I took with my wife and as a review. 130 questions,
right of way, navigation, boat types, boat characteristics, ancoring,
docking, emergency precautions, drills on the boats with tests o the
water, man over board, etc.

Must have been blind luck, right? Just a short, multiple choice quiz?

Jim