hey 'new guy', why would you call Katy an 'old guy'?

SV

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...
This old guy wrote:

katysails wrote:
This new guy said: one of the brokers I spoke

with last week bragged that the owner of that boat had only taken the
boat out some 10-12 times in the past ten years.


Number 1, stop listening to brokers. There are only a very few honest
brokers out there...the rest are tantamount to used car salesmen ir Kirby
vacuum cleaner salesmen. Number 2, who cares how often the boat was taken
out per year? The important thing is: as the boat well maintained and will
it go through a sound survey? Number 3, stop looking at sailboats as
investments. For the average sailor, they are a hobby...something nice and
fun to do when you're not working or putting a new roof on your hou
se. When you do get a boat, sail it as much as you personally can, and
then when you move up or away or whatever, hope that the new owner finds as
much enjoyment and pleasure in it as you did.


Hey old guy. - Do you know the meaning of the term: "for example"? My
observation that the boats in our area are seldom taken sailed was based
on discussions with various boat owners and from observations of the
small number of boats that are sailing in the bay here, even on weekends
and in good weather, compared with the thousands of boats sitting in
their slips. The reference to the discussion with this particular broker
was intended only as an example of what I was talking about.

The point is that if nearly all owners of such boats find that they
don't continue to sail their boats as often as they thought when they
bought them, and if, in fact, they are only able to get out very
infrequently, perhaps I should take this into consider as ONE FACTOR,
among OTHERS, when looking at boats.

Like, how often have you had your boat out in the last six months old
guy?

Jim

Scotty asked: hey 'new guy', why would you call Katy an 'old guy'?

Scotty...it's pretty eveidnet that I am one of the old "guys"...I don't =
think he meant it as a gender specific term....


--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

New guy said:=20
Like, how often have you had your boat out in the last six months old=20
guy?

Seeing as how I now presently live in West Michigan, those figures would =
have to be all September...in September we sailed quite a lot....we live =
45 minutes from our boat nad in season spend all our recreational hours =
there. When we move to warmer climes, the use of our boat will increase =
dramatically...3 summers ago I didn't work and spent the whole summer =
out on the boat....in other years we have stayed on the boat and come =
back to work making long extended weekends....the places where we have =
kept our boats had very few that were not used every weekend...
--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

katysails wrote:

This new guy said: one of the brokers I spoke

with last week bragged that the owner of that boat had only taken the
boat out some 10-12 times in the past ten years.


Number 1, stop listening to brokers. There are only a very few honest brokers out there...the rest are tantamount to used car salesmen ir Kirby vacuum cleaner salesmen. Number 2, who cares how often the boat was taken out per year? The important thing is: as the boat well maintained and will it go through a sound survey? Number 3, stop looking at sailboats as investments. For the average sailor, they are a hobby...something nice and fun to do when you're not working or putting a new roof on your hou
se. When you do get a boat, sail it as much as you personally can, and then when you move up or away or whatever, hope that the new owner finds as much enjoyment and pleasure in it as you did.


In addition to speaking with the brokers, I'm getting some helpful
inputs from the charter company that I may leave the boat with. - They
want to be assured that the boat is reliable, in good working order,
safe, and "saleable" to their clients. My thought is that if in their
experience no one would want to charter a particular boat, the boat
might have resale problems. I would intend to get a survey of both the
boat and the engine, and I'll pay more attention to the survey results
than the brokers.

It's interesting, however, that most of the brokers in this area have
not been high-pressure and in fact have been quite helpful. For
example, one of them I spoke with last weekend concluded that he really
didn't have anything with the characteristics and in the price range I
was looking for (32 to 35 ft., etc., that would qualify for chartering,
etc.). Before I left his office, I asked him what boats he would
consider for the uses I anticipate. - Despite the fact that he wasn't
going to make a sale, he spent a considerable amount of time discussing
a number of different boats, their characteristics, marketing factors,
various costs, resale values, financing etc. He then checked the
dealers' web sites of valuations and recent sales of several boats, and
gave me printouts of recent comparables. He also provided suggestions
regarding negotiating, initial offers, etc., and suggestions on survey
and repair facilities in the area, etc.

Of course, I'm going to place more confidence in the survey report, and
in all the helpful information (taken with a grain of salt) I'm getting
from folks on this ng, than in what a broker tells me. Unfortunately, I
haven't found much published information on the older boats I'm looking at.

Jim

Jim,=20
One suggestion...subscribe to "Good Old Boat" magazine...it's the best =
that will suit your needs. Oh, and remember, do NOT use a surveyor =
suggested by a broker! Find one independently.

--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 08:33:55 -0600, Jim Cate wrote:



katysails wrote:

This new guy said: one of the brokers I spoke

with last week bragged that the owner of that boat had only taken the
boat out some 10-12 times in the past ten years.


Number 1, stop listening to brokers. There are only a very few honest brokers out there...the rest are tantamount to used car salesmen ir Kirby vacuum cleaner salesmen. Number 2, who cares how often the boat was taken out per year? The important thing is: as the boat well maintained and will it go through a sound survey? Number 3, stop looking at sailboats as investments. For the average sailor, they are a hobby...something nice and fun to do when you're not working or putting a new roof on your hou
se. When you do get a boat, sail it as much as you personally can, and then when you move up or away or whatever, hope that the new owner finds as much enjoyment and pleasure in it as you did.


In addition to speaking with the brokers, I'm getting some helpful
inputs from the charter company that I may leave the boat with. - They
want to be assured that the boat is reliable, in good working order,
safe, and "saleable" to their clients. My thought is that if in their
experience no one would want to charter a particular boat, the boat
might have resale problems. I would intend to get a survey of both the
boat and the engine, and I'll pay more attention to the survey results
than the brokers.

It's interesting, however, that most of the brokers in this area have
not been high-pressure and in fact have been quite helpful. For
example, one of them I spoke with last weekend concluded that he really
didn't have anything with the characteristics and in the price range I
was looking for (32 to 35 ft., etc., that would qualify for chartering,
etc.). Before I left his office, I asked him what boats he would
consider for the uses I anticipate. - Despite the fact that he wasn't
going to make a sale, he spent a considerable amount of time discussing
a number of different boats, their characteristics, marketing factors,
various costs, resale values, financing etc. He then checked the
dealers' web sites of valuations and recent sales of several boats, and
gave me printouts of recent comparables. He also provided suggestions
regarding negotiating, initial offers, etc., and suggestions on survey
and repair facilities in the area, etc.

Of course, I'm going to place more confidence in the survey report, and
in all the helpful information (taken with a grain of salt) I'm getting
from folks on this ng, than in what a broker tells me. Unfortunately, I
haven't found much published information on the older boats I'm looking at.

Jim


Have you taken a look at the compilations of reviews done by Practical
Sailor? I find them informative and helpful. Buying the reports one
at a time gets expensive, but there are at least two "Buying Guides"
in which they reprinted many of their reviews. Additionally, if you
go to sailnet.com and check the message boards, you may find more of
the boat specific discussion you are looking for in the "Buying a
Boat" forum. If you don't see what you are looking for there, ask
about specific boats and you will likely get some good information
(along with some bad information)

Have you taken a look at the compilations of reviews done by Practical
Sailor?.

That would be like buying a car based on Consumer Reports.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

In article , Jim Cate
wrote:

katysails wrote:

This new guy said: one of the brokers I spoke

with last week bragged that the owner of that boat had only taken the
boat out some 10-12 times in the past ten years.


Number 1, stop listening to brokers. There are only a very few honest
brokers out there...the rest are tantamount to used car salesmen ir Kirby
vacuum cleaner salesmen. Number 2, who cares how often the boat was taken
out per year? The important thing is: as the boat well maintained and will
it go through a sound survey? Number 3, stop looking at sailboats as
investments. For the average sailor, they are a hobby...something nice and
fun to do when you're not working or putting a new roof on your hou
se. When you do get a boat, sail it as much as you personally can, and then
when you move up or away or whatever, hope that the new owner finds as much
enjoyment and pleasure in it as you did.


In addition to speaking with the brokers, I'm getting some helpful
inputs from the charter company that I may leave the boat with. - They
want to be assured that the boat is reliable, in good working order,
safe, and "saleable" to their clients. My thought is that if in their
experience no one would want to charter a particular boat, the boat
might have resale problems.

Jim, the correct way to place a resale value on a boat for personal use
is to assume it'll be zero. That way you'll be under no delusions that
it's an investment and can enjoy it for what it is - a toy to provide
pleasure.

If you do end up selling it, anything you get will be a bonus.

Peter Wiley

It has little to do with the boat size. Depends more on the individual and
his financial state. Fer instance, I bought a relatively cheap boat so
therefore I don't need to work as much ( I'm self employed) and have more
time to sail (and work on the boat). It seems as though a majority of the
'big' boats tied up at marinas are owned by 9-5ers, who , though making a
decent salary, tend to buy the most boat they can afford and then spend
their time working to pay for it, squeezing in a weekend or two here and
there. This is, of course a generalization.
The old saying, ''the bigger the boat the less it's sailed'', does seem to
hold some water.

SV


"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

As discussed in other subject strings, I'm looking at 30 to 35-foot used
boats such as Cals, O'Days, Catalinas, etc. My intended use would be for
day sailing and sailing offshore near the coast in the Texas Gulf. As
mentioned, offshore sailing would probably require four or five days in
our area because of the distances involved.

Although I know it all depends on the person, the crew, the
circumstances, the boat, etc., have there been any studies or surveys
that might provide some idea of how many days of sailing per year an
owner of such a boat typically gets, particularly after the first year?
Again, it's obvious that it all depends, on the person, the individual
circumstances, his work load, etc., and that there can be no
generalizations. (No need to tell me this. - It's pretty self-evident.)
Still, there may have been some polls or surveys, or at least, some
general experience and consensus regarding the question. The reason for
asking is that, though I'm anxious to get out to the blue water, I'm
wondering whether I would be the exception to what seems to be the
general rule in this area, in which the boats seem to sit in their slips
for 99.9 percent of the time. For example, one of the brokers I spoke
with last week bragged that the owner of that boat had only taken the
boat out some 10-12 times in the past ten years. - Any estimates, guesses?

Jim

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message ...
It has little to do with the boat size.

I have to disagree slightly with this statement. How much a boat gets
USED may be different than how much a boat gets SAILED. All sailboats
get SAILED, some, but under the right circumstances, the boats get
USED much more. Used for what? For a weekend retreat, for a place to
entertain friends, for a place to be alone to read a good book, etc
etc etc.

In this case the size of the boat is important. If you boat a 20'
boat, you probably would not use it as a weekend home. A boat in the
30' plus range could and probably would be used for this purpose.

I have seen that the owner who lives far away from his boat uses it
more. Here is what I mean. If you live 15 minutes away from your
boat you might go to it a few times a year and day sail, but you
probably will not find it worth the effort to pack up clothes, food,
etc to stay a weekend, not when your bed is just a 15 minute drive
away. But if the boat is an hour or two or three away from your home
you may get into a routine of packing up every friday and living on
the boat for the weekend. This way the boat gets used a great deal.
How much you actually go sailing may vary, however.

I've known people that lived 5 hours away from their boats and used it
3 out of 4 weekends every month. Every 4th weekend they would stay
home to get things done around their home, or take care of social
obligations there.

That is my 2 cents.

Lonny














Depends more on the individual and
his financial state. Fer instance, I bought a relatively cheap boat so
therefore I don't need to work as much ( I'm self employed) and have more
time to sail (and work on the boat). It seems as though a majority of the
'big' boats tied up at marinas are owned by 9-5ers, who , though making a
decent salary, tend to buy the most boat they can afford and then spend
their time working to pay for it, squeezing in a weekend or two here and
there. This is, of course a generalization.
The old saying, ''the bigger the boat the less it's sailed'', does seem to
hold some water.

SV


"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

As discussed in other subject strings, I'm looking at 30 to 35-foot used
boats such as Cals, O'Days, Catalinas, etc. My intended use would be for
day sailing and sailing offshore near the coast in the Texas Gulf. As
mentioned, offshore sailing would probably require four or five days in
our area because of the distances involved.

Although I know it all depends on the person, the crew, the
circumstances, the boat, etc., have there been any studies or surveys
that might provide some idea of how many days of sailing per year an
owner of such a boat typically gets, particularly after the first year?
Again, it's obvious that it all depends, on the person, the individual
circumstances, his work load, etc., and that there can be no
generalizations. (No need to tell me this. - It's pretty self-evident.)
Still, there may have been some polls or surveys, or at least, some
general experience and consensus regarding the question. The reason for
asking is that, though I'm anxious to get out to the blue water, I'm
wondering whether I would be the exception to what seems to be the
general rule in this area, in which the boats seem to sit in their slips
for 99.9 percent of the time. For example, one of the brokers I spoke
with last week bragged that the owner of that boat had only taken the
boat out some 10-12 times in the past ten years. - Any estimates, guesses?

Jim