Jim, what I consider significant is the fact that you keep rambling on and
on about your particularly bad ouece of plastic, and like many persons of
the arrogant persuasion, you're going to make the rule that the last laugh
laughs best...ain't going to happen. You should have seen the watning signs
from the group members, humbled yourself, with a heh...ok si I sail a Mac,
but I do sail admission, and we would have let you go. By continuuing to
pursue this discussion, you have brought down the forces of the ng against
you and it will continue until someone drives you into making a TOS
violation. Then you will go bye-bye.

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

I could buy a jetski and make the same statements that you did, only then I
wouldn't really be sailing, and neither will you.

SV

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

Am I going to be swamped? Is my Mac going to sink to the bottom of the
bay? (Actually, no. The Mac has enough flotation to keep the boat and
multiple passengers afloat.)

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 for blister treatment and bottom
refinishing? (Nope. Not if the boat is out of the water most of the time.)

Am I going to have stuck through-hulls, and rising water from an unknown
leak in a hose connected to one of the throughull valves? (Nope. The
hull doesn't need them.)

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 overhauling the diesel? (Nope. It
comes with a new outboard.)

Is the boat going to capsize, or is the standing rigging going to come
loose such that the boat founders or flips over? (I haven't seen many
news reports this year about any Mac sailors losing their lives.)

Am I going to go aground, and is the boat going to flip over on its
side and require expensive rescue services? (Probably not, since it can
float in 12 inches of water or can be motored onto a beach if desired.)

Am I going to be stranded off-shore in unexpected weather conditions? -
(Actually, since the boat can motor back at 18 mph, it has a better
chance of getting back to shore faster than a displacement boat. - I'll
also pay careful attention to weather conditions, of course, and intend
to be more conservative about going out in marginal conditions.)

Do I need to plan on loosing lots and lots of money from depreciation of
the boat? (Perhaps. But demand for the new model continues to greatly
exceed the supply. By comparison, most of the displacement boats we
looked at had depreciated over 80% to 90%, when adjusted for inflation.
Also, less money is being committed in the first place, so there is less
on the table that could be lost.)

Of course, it's also possible that the earth may get hit in the next few
months by an invisible space ship heading our way from somewhere in the
Virgo constellation, initiating a new 1,000-year ice age. - Gee. Hope my
luck holds out and I can get some sailing in before the impact.

Jim

"katysails" wrote ...
You should have seen the watning signs
from the group members, humbled yourself, with a heh...ok si I sail a Mac,
but I do sail admission, and we would have let you go.

IIRC there used to be a putz here who sailed a Mac.

Jim Cate wrote in message
Good luck, you'll need it.
John Cairns


I'll need lots of luck?

Am I going to be swamped? Is my Mac going to sink to the bottom of the
bay? (Actually, no. The Mac has enough flotation to keep the boat and
multiple passengers afloat.)


Great your gonna need it.




Am I going to have to spend $5,000 for blister treatment and bottom
refinishing? (Nope. Not if the boat is out of the water most of the time.)


What on a rusty trailer that will warp the thin skin of your macrap


Am I going to have stuck through-hulls, and rising water from an unknown
leak in a hose connected to one of the throughull valves? (Nope. The
hull doesn't need them.)

Thats because it to basic right? Stinky portapotty, no AC, what about
a sink drain, what no shower.



Am I going to have to spend $5,000 overhauling the diesel? (Nope. It
comes with a new outboard.)

That will cost 10 times to maintain than a proper diesel, and last
1/10 the time. Fuel will cost more, and that prop will be screaming
and overspeeding in any chop at all.



Is the boat going to capsize, or is the standing rigging going to come
loose such that the boat founders or flips over? (I haven't seen many
news reports this year about any Mac sailors losing their lives.)

See below


Am I going to go aground, and is the boat going to flip over on its
side and require expensive rescue services? (Probably not, since it can
float in 12 inches of water or can be motored onto a beach if desired.)

Will flip easy with such a high center or gravity, and the oyster
shell around redfish island going to punch holes in the thin skin.
First wake of a ship in the ship channel going to swamp you.


Am I going to be stranded off-shore in unexpected weather conditions?

Doubt it, you be insane to take that junk offshore in the first place.
-
(Actually, since the boat can motor back at 18 mph,

True lubber, 18 mph, is that on the trailer?

it has a better
chance of getting back to shore faster than a displacement boat. - I'll
also pay careful attention to weather conditions, of course, and intend
to be more conservative about going out in marginal conditions.)

Better be very conserative Jim, getting caught in just one good squall
off Kemah will kill you.



Do I need to plan on loosing lots and lots of money from depreciation of
the boat?

Yes, and finding another sucker to buy it will take you years and
years.

(Perhaps. But demand for the new model continues to greatly
exceed the supply. By comparison, most of the displacement boats we
looked at had depreciated over 80% to 90%, when adjusted for inflation.
Also, less money is being committed in the first place, so there is less
on the table that could be lost.)

I wonder why less money is needed, perhaps it is because it is worth
LESS.

Of course, it's also possible that the earth may get hit in the next few
months by an invisible space ship heading our way from somewhere in the
Virgo constellation, initiating a new 1,000-year ice age. - Gee. Hope my
luck holds out and I can get some sailing in before the impact.

Hey Jim, hope to see you racing on the Harvest Moon regetta this
October.
All the real sailors in the Clearlake area prove their boats worth and
ability in the Harvest moon. Most likey I will just see you sailing
inside Clear lake were the waves rarely reach over 8 inches and you
will not be capsized or be swamped. You will be to cool docking at the
boardwalk in your new Mac, I hope you can yell loud enough for your
crew to hear you above all the laughing.

Joe
MSV RedCloud

Jim

"Jim Cate" scribbled furiously
...


You got the next best thing, good advice, including taking one for a
test
sail, which you pointedly ignored. Based on the content of your posts
one
could only reasonably conclude that they were either a troll or spam.
The
only other conclusions one could come to would be that you are an
extremely
inexperienced sailor, an extremely gullible individual, or both.
Good luck, you'll need it.
John Cairns


I'll need lots of luck?

Am I going to be swamped? Is my Mac going to sink to the bottom of the
bay? (Actually, no. The Mac has enough flotation to keep the boat and
multiple passengers afloat.)

If you are in that much fear of drowning, you should probably stay ashore.
Hint: Most folks drown because they fall overboard, not because their boat
sank.

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 for blister treatment and bottom
refinishing? (Nope. Not if the boat is out of the water most of the time.)

Anti-blister treatment? $5000 bottom refinishing? Hint: Buy a boat that
doesn't need a bottom job. Hint 2: Learn how to apply bottom paint, quite
easily done, probably even in your case.

Am I going to have stuck through-hulls, and rising water from an unknown
leak in a hose connected to one of the throughull valves? (Nope. The
hull doesn't need them.)

So I guess that means porta potties and no "indoor plumbing" on your boat,
right? Claims to the contrary aside, most sailors like to bathe
occasionally, nice to not have to go ashore to do this. We're on fresh water
lakes here but bathing in them isn't the same as nice, hot shower on the
boat. Definitely not nice in salt water.

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 overhauling the diesel? (Nope. It
comes with a new outboard.)

Again, see above. Buy a boat that doesn't need to have the diesel
overhauled. Hint: Most boats with inboard diesels have engine hour meters.
Hint #2: Being nice, a bonus. If you don't maintain your $4000 50 h.p.
outboard, how much do you think it will cost to repair? Generally, you read
of small outboards being an advantage on a sailboat, after all, they're
cheaper than inboard diesels and can easily be removed if they do have to be
sent to the shop for repairs. I don't think you can make this claim of the
large outboards typically found hung on the transom of macs.

Is the boat going to capsize, or is the standing rigging going to come
loose such that the boat founders or flips over? (I haven't seen many
news reports this year about any Mac sailors losing their lives.)

See above for info about drowning particulars. No, I doubt if the standing
rigging will ever come off of your mac because you won't sail the thing in
winds north of 10 kts. Even if it does, you can replace it with clothesline,
just as strong in all likelihood. Seriously though, another hint, the
standing rigging and the rig period are somewhat of a joke on the mac. My
boathook is as large a diameter as the boom on the Mac. Hey, another great
idea! If the boom ever breaks(not likely, see above reasons) you can replace
it with a boat hook, hell, a sturdy broom handle will probably do!

Am I going to go aground, and is the boat going to flip over on its
side and require expensive rescue services? (Probably not, since it can
float in 12 inches of water or can be motored onto a beach if desired.)

Again, see above. Since I own something larger than a dinghy, I'm not
generally concerned with the boat "flipping over". Something you learn when
you take that "basic" sailing course, when the wind pipes up or the boat
develops excessive weather helm, reduce the sail area. If you need a
definition of "weather helm" I'll be happy to provide one. Extra hint: I pay
$50 dollars a year for practically unlimited towing services through
Boat/US, something I would strongly suggest you do because if your boat EVER
develops outboard trouble you'll never be able to SAIL it back.

Am I going to be stranded off-shore in unexpected weather conditions? -
(Actually, since the boat can motor back at 18 mph, it has a better
chance of getting back to shore faster than a displacement boat. - I'll
also pay careful attention to weather conditions, of course, and intend
to be more conservative about going out in marginal conditions.)

I don't know how to break the news to you, but if you ever run into any seas
at all you won't be able to motor at 18 kts. And do pay careful attention to
the weather, for a mac, "marginal conditions" will mean winds much north of
10 kts.

Do I need to plan on loosing lots and lots of money from depreciation of
the boat? (Perhaps. But demand for the new model continues to greatly
exceed the supply. By comparison, most of the displacement boats we
looked at had depreciated over 80% to 90%, when adjusted for inflation.
Also, less money is being committed in the first place, so there is less
on the table that could be lost.)

Are we from the same planet? If you want to know how much your mac will be
worth before the ink dries on the sales contract all you have to do is run a
quick search at:
http://www.yachtworld.com/

You might consider why all these happy mac owners are selling their boats, I
dobt if they're lining up to buy the "new" model.

Of course, it's also possible that the earth may get hit in the next few
months by an invisible space ship heading our way from somewhere in the
Virgo constellation, initiating a new 1,000-year ice age. - Gee. Hope my
luck holds out and I can get some sailing in before the impact.
Jim

It might also be possible that you could form a logical argument, but I'm
not holding my breath either.
John Cairns

Scotty reminisced:
IIRC there used to be a putz here who sailed a Mac.


And if IRC, that putz did exactly what I suggested Jim should have done and
he's now still a member of this group in good standing...
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
"katysails" wrote ...
You should have seen the watning signs
from the group members, humbled yourself, with a heh...ok si I sail a
Mac,
but I do sail admission, and we would have let you go.

IIRC there used to be a putz here who sailed a Mac.

I believe that he also kept a particularily attractive sheep in his garden
shed (for recreational purposes!).




Regards


Donal
--

Heh. I was thinking much the same thing about my 12' daysailer. Or my
kayak.

PDW

In article , Scott Vernon
wrote:

I could buy a jetski and make the same statements that you did, only then I
wouldn't really be sailing, and neither will you.

SV

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

Am I going to be swamped? Is my Mac going to sink to the bottom of the
bay? (Actually, no. The Mac has enough flotation to keep the boat and
multiple passengers afloat.)

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 for blister treatment and bottom
refinishing? (Nope. Not if the boat is out of the water most of the time.)

Am I going to have stuck through-hulls, and rising water from an unknown
leak in a hose connected to one of the throughull valves? (Nope. The
hull doesn't need them.)

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 overhauling the diesel? (Nope. It
comes with a new outboard.)

Is the boat going to capsize, or is the standing rigging going to come
loose such that the boat founders or flips over? (I haven't seen many
news reports this year about any Mac sailors losing their lives.)

Am I going to go aground, and is the boat going to flip over on its
side and require expensive rescue services? (Probably not, since it can
float in 12 inches of water or can be motored onto a beach if desired.)

Am I going to be stranded off-shore in unexpected weather conditions? -
(Actually, since the boat can motor back at 18 mph, it has a better
chance of getting back to shore faster than a displacement boat. - I'll
also pay careful attention to weather conditions, of course, and intend
to be more conservative about going out in marginal conditions.)

Do I need to plan on loosing lots and lots of money from depreciation of
the boat? (Perhaps. But demand for the new model continues to greatly
exceed the supply. By comparison, most of the displacement boats we
looked at had depreciated over 80% to 90%, when adjusted for inflation.
Also, less money is being committed in the first place, so there is less
on the table that could be lost.)

Of course, it's also possible that the earth may get hit in the next few
months by an invisible space ship heading our way from somewhere in the
Virgo constellation, initiating a new 1,000-year ice age. - Gee. Hope my
luck holds out and I can get some sailing in before the impact.

Jim

Thought of a few others.

In article , Peter Wiley
wrote:

Heh. I was thinking much the same thing about my 12' daysailer. Or my
kayak.

PDW

In article , Scott Vernon
wrote:

I could buy a jetski and make the same statements that you did, only then I
wouldn't really be sailing, and neither will you.

SV

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

Am I going to be swamped? Is my Mac going to sink to the bottom of the
bay? (Actually, no. The Mac has enough flotation to keep the boat and
multiple passengers afloat.)

..... and you'll never take it into deep water.

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 for blister treatment and bottom
refinishing? (Nope. Not if the boat is out of the water most of the time.)

..... because it'll sit on the trailer 364 days p/a rotting from ozone.


Am I going to have stuck through-hulls, and rising water from an unknown
leak in a hose connected to one of the throughull valves? (Nope. The
hull doesn't need them.)

..... because it has no galley sink, shower or head. IOW it's a
daysailer.


Am I going to have to spend $5,000 overhauling the diesel? (Nope. It
comes with a new outboard.)

..... which has 1/4 the life expectancy of a diesel engine while using
4X the fuel. Great economics there.


Is the boat going to capsize, or is the standing rigging going to come
loose such that the boat founders or flips over? (I haven't seen many
news reports this year about any Mac sailors losing their lives.)

Ah, there's a copout. Still, I expect the answer's no, because it won't
get used as a sailboat when you find out what it's like.


Am I going to go aground, and is the boat going to flip over on its
side and require expensive rescue services? (Probably not, since it can
float in 12 inches of water or can be motored onto a beach if desired.)

Also, it's on a trailer in the yard.


Am I going to be stranded off-shore in unexpected weather conditions? -

No, because you'll never go offshore.

(Actually, since the boat can motor back at 18 mph,

in a flat calm.....

it has a better
chance of getting back to shore faster than a displacement boat. - I'll
also pay careful attention to weather conditions, of course, and intend
to be more conservative about going out in marginal conditions.)

..... because the Mac can't take any weather.


Do I need to plan on loosing lots and lots of money from depreciation of
the boat? (Perhaps. But demand for the new model continues to greatly
exceed the supply. By comparison, most of the displacement boats we
looked at had depreciated over 80% to 90%, when adjusted for inflation.
Also, less money is being committed in the first place, so there is less
on the table that could be lost.)

If you can't afford to lose money on a boat, you can't afford a boat.
Simple.

If you can't afford a real boat, you buy what you can afford. If you
can't fix an older boat, that reduces your options. If you really want
a motor boat but like to pretend you're going sailing, I guess you do
what you've done. Seems a lot of people here are getting amusement at
your expense, and you think you're going to win? There's nothing to
win, certainly not a longest thread competition or something equally
idiotic. Shortly this will get x-posted to alt.vampires or similar. We
ran those losers off as soon as their entertainment value ran out but
they're probably good for something. You'll spend your life answering
posts from even bigger losers than Horvath. Or, by your own
definition, you'll get run off. Whatever.

Of course, it's also possible that the earth may get hit in the next few
months by an invisible space ship heading our way from somewhere in the
Virgo constellation, initiating a new 1,000-year ice age. - Gee. Hope my
luck holds out and I can get some sailing in before the impact.

Off you go, then. See if you can find Neal somewhere out there.

PDW

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

It was blatantly obvious what it would be like.

Actually, if you haven't sailed the boat, it's blatantly obious that you
don't know what the hell you are talking about. The new model has a
completely different hull, different keel arrangment, different rigging,
etc., etc., etc. As I have note previously, this doesn't mean that
the new boat is a good boat. It does mean that it's a different boat.


Jim