30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Scott Vernon wrote:

I could buy a jetski and make the same statements that you did, only then I
wouldn't really be sailing, and neither will you.



I'm getting a boat that's capable of motoring in 1.5 feet of water and
sailing offshore, motoring at 18 knots to a desired destination, and
having a cabin big enough for several adults and children. - Hardly the
equivalent of a jetski or a kayak. Your comments are ridiculous ont
their face.

Jim


SV

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

Am I going to be swamped? Is my Mac going to sink to the bottom of the
bay? (Actually, no. The Mac has enough flotation to keep the boat and
multiple passengers afloat.)

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 for blister treatment and bottom
refinishing? (Nope. Not if the boat is out of the water most of the time.)

Am I going to have stuck through-hulls, and rising water from an unknown
leak in a hose connected to one of the throughull valves? (Nope. The
hull doesn't need them.)

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 overhauling the diesel? (Nope. It
comes with a new outboard.)

Is the boat going to capsize, or is the standing rigging going to come
loose such that the boat founders or flips over? (I haven't seen many
news reports this year about any Mac sailors losing their lives.)

Am I going to go aground, and is the boat going to flip over on its
side and require expensive rescue services? (Probably not, since it can
float in 12 inches of water or can be motored onto a beach if desired.)

Am I going to be stranded off-shore in unexpected weather conditions? -
(Actually, since the boat can motor back at 18 mph, it has a better
chance of getting back to shore faster than a displacement boat. - I'll
also pay careful attention to weather conditions, of course, and intend
to be more conservative about going out in marginal conditions.)

Do I need to plan on loosing lots and lots of money from depreciation of
the boat? (Perhaps. But demand for the new model continues to greatly
exceed the supply. By comparison, most of the displacement boats we
looked at had depreciated over 80% to 90%, when adjusted for inflation.
Also, less money is being committed in the first place, so there is less
on the table that could be lost.)

Of course, it's also possible that the earth may get hit in the next few
months by an invisible space ship heading our way from somewhere in the
Virgo constellation, initiating a new 1,000-year ice age. - Gee. Hope my
luck holds out and I can get some sailing in before the impact.

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Joe wrote:

Jim Cate wrote in message

Good luck, you'll need it.
John Cairns


I'll need lots of luck?

Am I going to be swamped? Is my Mac going to sink to the bottom of the
bay? (Actually, no. The Mac has enough flotation to keep the boat and
multiple passengers afloat.)



Great your gonna need it.




Am I going to have to spend $5,000 for blister treatment and bottom
refinishing? (Nope. Not if the boat is out of the water most of the time.)



What on a rusty trailer that will warp the thin skin of your macrap

Didn't see any rust on the (galvanized) trailor. Maybe I missed it. n



Am I going to have stuck through-hulls, and rising water from an unknown
leak in a hose connected to one of the throughull valves? (Nope. The
hull doesn't need them.)


Thats because it to basic right? Stinky portapotty, no AC, what about
a sink drain, what no shower.

So far I haven't planned on AC. So you're right on that point. - Perhaps
later on...




Am I going to have to spend $5,000 overhauling the diesel? (Nope. It
comes with a new outboard.)


That will cost 10 times to maintain than a proper diesel, and last
1/10 the time. Fuel will cost more, and that prop will be screaming
and overspeeding in any chop at all.


What do you think the maintenance expense will be for the first three
years, Joe? $500? $300?



Is the boat going to capsize, or is the standing rigging going to come
loose such that the boat founders or flips over? (I haven't seen many
news reports this year about any Mac sailors losing their lives.)


See below



Am I going to go aground, and is the boat going to flip over on its
side and require expensive rescue services? (Probably not, since it can
float in 12 inches of water or can be motored onto a beach if desired.)


Will flip easy with such a high center or gravity, and the oyster
shell around redfish island going to punch holes in the thin skin.
First wake of a ship in the ship channel going to swamp you.

Not if I beach the boat on the island, or anchor in the leeward side.

Am I going to be stranded off-shore in unexpected weather conditions?


Doubt it, you be insane to take that junk offshore in the first place.
-

Well, I probably won't take it more than 100 miles offshore.

(Actually, since the boat can motor back at 18 mph,


True lubber, 18 mph, is that on the trailer?

it has a better

chance of getting back to shore faster than a displacement boat. - I'll
also pay careful attention to weather conditions, of course, and intend
to be more conservative about going out in marginal conditions.)


Better be very conserative Jim, getting caught in just one good squall
off Kemah will kill you.



Do I need to plan on loosing lots and lots of money from depreciation of
the boat?


Yes, and finding another sucker to buy it will take you years and
years.

(Perhaps. But demand for the new model continues to greatly

exceed the supply. By comparison, most of the displacement boats we
looked at had depreciated over 80% to 90%, when adjusted for inflation.
Also, less money is being committed in the first place, so there is less
on the table that could be lost.)


I wonder why less money is needed, perhaps it is because it is worth
LESS.

It's also possible that MacGregor can build more value into the boat
using modern production facilities than other manufacturers who don't.
Like, a Rolls Royce costs 30 times more than a Ford because much of the
work is done by hand. The Ford can still get me to work or accross the
country quietly and comfortably.

Jim


Of course, it's also possible that the earth may get hit in the next few
months by an invisible space ship heading our way from somewhere in the
Virgo constellation, initiating a new 1,000-year ice age. - Gee. Hope my
luck holds out and I can get some sailing in before the impact.


Hey Jim, hope to see you racing on the Harvest Moon regetta this
October.
All the real sailors in the Clearlake area prove their boats worth and
ability in the Harvest moon. Most likey I will just see you sailing
inside Clear lake were the waves rarely reach over 8 inches and you
will not be capsized or be swamped. You will be to cool docking at the
boardwalk in your new Mac, I hope you can yell loud enough for your
crew to hear you above all the laughing.

Joe
MSV RedCloud


I want to sail down to Veracruz. Where can I get an entry form?

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Scott Vernon wrote:

I could buy a jetski and make the same statements that you did, only then I
wouldn't really be sailing, and neither will you.



I'm getting a boat that's capable of motoring in 1.5 feet of water and
sailing offshore, motoring at 18 knots

No its not. If that's what the salesman told you, he lied. And shame on you
for believing it. The web site was quite emphatic that it could only do that
with no rigging, no ballast, one person on board, in a flat calm. Maybe loaded
up you'll do 12, if its flat.




to a desired destination, and
having a cabin big enough for several adults and children. - Hardly the
equivalent of a jetski or a kayak. Your comments are ridiculous ont
their face.

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

John Cairns wrote:

"Jim Cate" scribbled furiously
...


John, if you were defending your position in a discussion with 30 idiot
sailors simultaneously posting distortions and personal attacks at you,
you would have to "scribble" fast also. If the discussion was only
between me and one or two others, my notes might not be so rough. - I'm
not complaining. But it needs to be considered as part of the equation.


You got the next best thing, good advice, including taking one for a

test

sail, which you pointedly ignored. Based on the content of your posts


This particular point is well taken. I do acknowledge that I don't have
personal experience sailing one of the new 26M models. I'm basing my
decision on comments from 26M owners and from experience on previous Macs.



one

could only reasonably conclude that they were either a troll or spam.

The

only other conclusions one could come to would be that you are an

extremely

inexperienced sailor, an extremely gullible individual, or both.
Good luck, you'll need it.
John Cairns


I'll need lots of luck?

Am I going to be swamped? Is my Mac going to sink to the bottom of the
bay? (Actually, no. The Mac has enough flotation to keep the boat and
multiple passengers afloat.)


If you are in that much fear of drowning, you should probably stay ashore.
Hint: Most folks drown because they fall overboard, not because their boat
sank.


I'm not in fear of drowning, but it's also true that Galveston has some
pretty tricky channels and jetty situations. (My charter company in
this area prohibits their customers from taking the boats down to
Galveston and offshore because of such hazards. It's also the case that
we may have several small children in the boat from time to time.

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 for blister treatment and bottom
refinishing? (Nope. Not if the boat is out of the water most of the time.)


Anti-blister treatment? $5000 bottom refinishing? Hint: Buy a boat that
doesn't need a bottom job. Hint 2: Learn how to apply bottom paint, quite
easily done, probably even in your case.


Actually, I was seriously considering several used boats in the 30 -
36-foot range. We didn't get as far as making an offer and getting a
survey, however, because most of the boats were going to have at least
one major repair or expense. - Either a new bottom, or a motor overhaul,
or a new interior, etc. There are also the other considerations relative
to the versatility of the Mac for different uses and environments. (We
can't very well go swimming with 4-year old grandkids in 7 feet of
water, we can't do much fishing in the bays, and I don't think they
would appreciate long motor voyages, for example.



Am I going to have stuck through-hulls, and rising water from an unknown
leak in a hose connected to one of the throughull valves? (Nope. The
hull doesn't need them.)


So I guess that means porta potties and no "indoor plumbing" on your boat,
right? Claims to the contrary aside, most sailors like to bathe
occasionally, nice to not have to go ashore to do this. We're on fresh water
lakes here but bathing in them isn't the same as nice, hot shower on the
boat. Definitely not nice in salt water.


We will have a good supply of handiwipes. Also, with all the money we
save ont he boat, we will be able to stop in some pretty nice marinas
and stay in some nice hotels when we want to.



Am I going to have to spend $5,000 overhauling the diesel? (Nope. It
comes with a new outboard.)


Again, see above. Buy a boat that doesn't need to have the diesel
overhauled. Hint: Most boats with inboard diesels have engine hour meters.
Hint #2: Being nice, a bonus. If you don't maintain your $4000 50 h.p.
outboard, how much do you think it will cost to repair? Generally, you read
of small outboards being an advantage on a sailboat, after all, they're
cheaper than inboard diesels and can easily be removed if they do have to be
sent to the shop for repairs. I don't think you can make this claim of the
large outboards typically found hung on the transom of macs.


I'll try to take good care of the motor and keep it running well as long
as I can. As stated above, most of the used boats we looked at had at
least one expensive problem. Either the motor, the bottom, the interior,
or something else.


Is the boat going to capsize, or is the standing rigging going to come

loose such that the boat founders or flips over? (I haven't seen many
news reports this year about any Mac sailors losing their lives.)


See above for info about drowning particulars. No, I doubt if the standing
rigging will ever come off of your mac because you won't sail the thing in
winds north of 10 kts.

Well, your right that I don't intend to go out in heavy weather very
often. Nothing over 70 knots, in any case.



Even if it does, you can replace it with clothesline,
just as strong in all likelihood. Seriously though, another hint, the
standing rigging and the rig period are somewhat of a joke on the mac. My
boathook is as large a diameter as the boom on the Mac. Hey, another great
idea! If the boom ever breaks(not likely, see above reasons) you can replace
it with a boat hook, hell, a sturdy broom handle will probably do!



Real funny, John, but not very substantive. Tell me. - Why should a
3,500-lb boat with very small sail area need, or be expected to have,
the same kind of standing rigging required on a 35,000 boat with a
10,000-lb. keel? That seems to be your thesis.


Am I going to go aground, and is the boat going to flip over on its
side and require expensive rescue services? (Probably not, since it can
float in 12 inches of water or can be motored onto a beach if desired.)


Again, see above. Since I own something larger than a dinghy, I'm not
generally concerned with the boat "flipping over".


John, you didn't read the question carefully. What I described was a
keel boat going aground, and leaning over on its side, as would be the
case in some of our shallow waters if the tide goes down while the boat
is stuck on the bottom. In the Galveston-Kemah area, we have lots of
shallow and marginal areas, and some of the channels are not well
maintained, making it rather easy to go aground. (Of course, being the
good sailor that I am, it hasn't happened to me, but it might.) My point
was that this difficulty would be substantially eliminated with the Mac
26M because of its extremely shallow draft when not sailing.

Something you learn when
you take that "basic" sailing course,

By strange coincidence, I DID attend an introductory ASA sailing course
last weekend as a review (since I haven't had time to do much sailing in
several years due to my work requirements) and so that my wife would get
into the sailing experience. I made a 98 on their 130-question test. It
doesn't mean I'm a sailor, of course, but it does suggest that perhaps
I'm not an absolute novice. (As mentioned previously, I have chartered
a number of larger boats under various conditions.)

when the wind pipes up or the boat
develops excessive weather helm, reduce the sail area. If you need a
definition of "weather helm" I'll be happy to provide one. Extra hint: I pay
$50 dollars a year for practically unlimited towing services through
Boat/US, something I would strongly suggest you do because if your boat EVER
develops outboard trouble you'll never be able to SAIL it back.

Thanks for the suggestions. However, I rather think that I will be able
to sail the boat back to port without the motor.


Am I going to be stranded off-shore in unexpected weather conditions? -
(Actually, since the boat can motor back at 18 mph, it has a better
chance of getting back to shore faster than a displacement boat. - I'll
also pay careful attention to weather conditions, of course, and intend
to be more conservative about going out in marginal conditions.)


I don't know how to break the news to you, but if you ever run into any seas
at all you won't be able to motor at 18 kts.

Obviously, one would want to monitor any questionable or changing
weather conditions and motor back ahead of the weather, rather than
trying to extricate oneself from heavy seas.


And do pay careful attention to
the weather, for a mac, "marginal conditions" will mean winds much north of
10 kts.

Thanks for the warnings. - I do intend to limit my sailing to winds of
70-knots or less.


Do I need to plan on loosing lots and lots of money from depreciation of
the boat? (Perhaps. But demand for the new model continues to greatly
exceed the supply. By comparison, most of the displacement boats we
looked at had depreciated over 80% to 90%, when adjusted for inflation.
Also, less money is being committed in the first place, so there is less
on the table that could be lost.)


Are we from the same planet? If you want to know how much your mac will be
worth before the ink dries on the sales contract all you have to do is run a
quick search at:
http://www.yachtworld.com/


I've spent considerable time on yachtworld.com in the last two months.
If you check the prices on Mac 26Ms, with 50 hp motors, you will be
surprised to find the prices holding rather well. Of course, I expect
some depreciation in coming years, but depreciation of a $25,000 boat
isn't quite as alarming as depreciation on a $200,000 to $300,000 boat.
We saw many, many rather nice used boats selling for less than 10% of
the cost of a comparable new one. I agree that boat ownership isn't a
reasonable financial investment, but I'm not putting much money into the
deal to begin with.

You might consider why all these happy mac owners are selling their boats, I
dobt if they're lining up to buy the "new" model.

MacGregor has sold more than 35,000 boats, and they sold more than 7,000 of
their previous 26X model. When you have that many
boats in use, you can expect to see more of them on sale. - I see many
more Chevrolets and Fords for sail than Rolls or Ferraris, etc. It
relates to the supply as well as the demand.




Of course, it's also possible that the earth may get hit in the next few
months by an invisible space ship heading our way from somewhere in the
Virgo constellation, initiating a new 1,000-year ice age. - Gee. Hope my
luck holds out and I can get some sailing in before the impact.

Jim

It might also be possible that you could form a logical argument, but I'm
not holding my breath either.
John Cairns

See above. I happen to be an attorney, and I can assure you that my
win-loss record is fairly good. Hard to understand if everything I say
is that illogical.
Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Jim admits BIG sailing boo-boo:
I do acknowledge that I don't have
personal experience sailing one of the new 26M models

You actually bought a boat that you did not test sail????I don't care
whether it's a Mac 26M or a Swan 50...you don't buy a boat without sailing
it first....DUMB thing to do...really DUMB....So, if when you get this boat
and you hate how it sails, hate the stiffness, hate the fussiness of the
ballast tanks, etc. are you going to admit that to us?
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

katysails wrote:

Jim, what I consider significant is the fact that you keep rambling on and
on about your particularly bad ouece of plastic, and like many persons of
the arrogant persuasion, you're going to make the rule that the last laugh
laughs best...ain't going to happen. You should have seen the watning signs
from the group members, humbled yourself, with a heh...ok si I sail a Mac,
but I do sail admission, and we would have let you go. By continuuing to
pursue this discussion, you have brought down the forces of the ng against
you and it will continue until someone drives you into making a TOS
violation. Then you will go bye-bye.

In other words, you haven't been able to intimidate me so far, and you
don't like it. Is that what you mean?

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Sure. Whatever you say MacBoy.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jonathan Ganz wrote:

It was blatantly obvious what it would be like.

Actually, if you haven't sailed the boat, it's blatantly obious that you
don't know what the hell you are talking about. The new model has a
completely different hull, different keel arrangment, different rigging,
etc., etc., etc. As I have note previously, this doesn't mean that
the new boat is a good boat. It does mean that it's a different boat.


Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Your face is a ridiculous comment.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Scott Vernon wrote:

I could buy a jetski and make the same statements that you did, only
then I
wouldn't really be sailing, and neither will you.



I'm getting a boat that's capable of motoring in 1.5 feet of water and
sailing offshore, motoring at 18 knots to a desired destination, and
having a cabin big enough for several adults and children. - Hardly the
equivalent of a jetski or a kayak. Your comments are ridiculous ont
their face.

Jim


SV

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...

Am I going to be swamped? Is my Mac going to sink to the bottom of the
bay? (Actually, no. The Mac has enough flotation to keep the boat and
multiple passengers afloat.)

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 for blister treatment and bottom
refinishing? (Nope. Not if the boat is out of the water most of the
time.)

Am I going to have stuck through-hulls, and rising water from an unknown
leak in a hose connected to one of the throughull valves? (Nope. The
hull doesn't need them.)

Am I going to have to spend $5,000 overhauling the diesel? (Nope. It
comes with a new outboard.)

Is the boat going to capsize, or is the standing rigging going to come
loose such that the boat founders or flips over? (I haven't seen many
news reports this year about any Mac sailors losing their lives.)

Am I going to go aground, and is the boat going to flip over on its
side and require expensive rescue services? (Probably not, since it can
float in 12 inches of water or can be motored onto a beach if desired.)

Am I going to be stranded off-shore in unexpected weather conditions? -
(Actually, since the boat can motor back at 18 mph, it has a better
chance of getting back to shore faster than a displacement boat. - I'll
also pay careful attention to weather conditions, of course, and intend
to be more conservative about going out in marginal conditions.)

Do I need to plan on loosing lots and lots of money from depreciation of
the boat? (Perhaps. But demand for the new model continues to greatly
exceed the supply. By comparison, most of the displacement boats we
looked at had depreciated over 80% to 90%, when adjusted for inflation.
Also, less money is being committed in the first place, so there is less
on the table that could be lost.)

Of course, it's also possible that the earth may get hit in the next few
months by an invisible space ship heading our way from somewhere in the
Virgo constellation, initiating a new 1,000-year ice age. - Gee. Hope my
luck holds out and I can get some sailing in before the impact.

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

You are truly an idiot.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Joe wrote:

Jim Cate wrote in message

Good luck, you'll need it.
John Cairns


I'll need lots of luck?

Am I going to be swamped? Is my Mac going to sink to the bottom of the
bay? (Actually, no. The Mac has enough flotation to keep the boat and
multiple passengers afloat.)



Great your gonna need it.




Am I going to have to spend $5,000 for blister treatment and bottom
refinishing? (Nope. Not if the boat is out of the water most of the
time.)



What on a rusty trailer that will warp the thin skin of your macrap

Didn't see any rust on the (galvanized) trailor. Maybe I missed it. n



Am I going to have stuck through-hulls, and rising water from an unknown
leak in a hose connected to one of the throughull valves? (Nope. The
hull doesn't need them.)


Thats because it to basic right? Stinky portapotty, no AC, what about
a sink drain, what no shower.

So far I haven't planned on AC. So you're right on that point. - Perhaps
later on...




Am I going to have to spend $5,000 overhauling the diesel? (Nope. It
comes with a new outboard.)


That will cost 10 times to maintain than a proper diesel, and last
1/10 the time. Fuel will cost more, and that prop will be screaming
and overspeeding in any chop at all.


What do you think the maintenance expense will be for the first three
years, Joe? $500? $300?



Is the boat going to capsize, or is the standing rigging going to come
loose such that the boat founders or flips over? (I haven't seen many
news reports this year about any Mac sailors losing their lives.)


See below



Am I going to go aground, and is the boat going to flip over on its
side and require expensive rescue services? (Probably not, since it can
float in 12 inches of water or can be motored onto a beach if desired.)


Will flip easy with such a high center or gravity, and the oyster
shell around redfish island going to punch holes in the thin skin.
First wake of a ship in the ship channel going to swamp you.

Not if I beach the boat on the island, or anchor in the leeward side.

Am I going to be stranded off-shore in unexpected weather conditions?


Doubt it, you be insane to take that junk offshore in the first place.
-

Well, I probably won't take it more than 100 miles offshore.

(Actually, since the boat can motor back at 18 mph,


True lubber, 18 mph, is that on the trailer?

it has a better

chance of getting back to shore faster than a displacement boat. - I'll
also pay careful attention to weather conditions, of course, and intend
to be more conservative about going out in marginal conditions.)


Better be very conserative Jim, getting caught in just one good squall
off Kemah will kill you.



Do I need to plan on loosing lots and lots of money from depreciation of
the boat?


Yes, and finding another sucker to buy it will take you years and
years.

(Perhaps. But demand for the new model continues to greatly

exceed the supply. By comparison, most of the displacement boats we
looked at had depreciated over 80% to 90%, when adjusted for inflation.
Also, less money is being committed in the first place, so there is less
on the table that could be lost.)


I wonder why less money is needed, perhaps it is because it is worth
LESS.

It's also possible that MacGregor can build more value into the boat
using modern production facilities than other manufacturers who don't.
Like, a Rolls Royce costs 30 times more than a Ford because much of the
work is done by hand. The Ford can still get me to work or accross the
country quietly and comfortably.

Jim


Of course, it's also possible that the earth may get hit in the next few
months by an invisible space ship heading our way from somewhere in the
Virgo constellation, initiating a new 1,000-year ice age. - Gee. Hope my
luck holds out and I can get some sailing in before the impact.


Hey Jim, hope to see you racing on the Harvest Moon regetta this
October.
All the real sailors in the Clearlake area prove their boats worth and
ability in the Harvest moon. Most likey I will just see you sailing
inside Clear lake were the waves rarely reach over 8 inches and you
will not be capsized or be swamped. You will be to cool docking at the
boardwalk in your new Mac, I hope you can yell loud enough for your
crew to hear you above all the laughing.

Joe
MSV RedCloud


I want to sail down to Veracruz. Where can I get an entry form?

Jim

30 to 35-foot boats, days used?
 

Jim Cate wrote:

This particular point is well taken. I do acknowledge that I don't
have personal experience sailing one of the new 26M models. I'm
basing my decision on comments from 26M owners and from experience on
previous Macs.

You bought a 20K boat and you haven't even tried one out?


Well, your right that I don't intend to go out in heavy weather very
often. Nothing over 70 knots, in any case.

What a ridiculously blatant troll - you're going to take a beginner's boat
out in a hurricane, are you?

You are Capt RB and I claim my five pounds.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk/music