How many beer boxes needed to navigate an ocean?
 

dougies and jeffies and others seem eternally worried about NAVIGATING AT SEA
without triple redundant gps's, RDF, working C. Plath sextant, Almanac,
chronometer and SSB for time clicks.

This sailor -- who has sailed something more than a Hunter 19 or training
wheels -- thinks a single cardboard beer box is enough.

"When we asked what Babe would use to navigate, he pulled out a crude
astrolabe-like device he made from the cardboard from a beer box. "With this, I
can get my position, without tables or a watch, to within 60 miles."

see link for more of the story:

http://www.latitude38.com/LectronicL...#anchor1085433

How many beer boxes needed to navigate an ocean?
 

Hey jaxie, you're the one who had three GPS's and Loran and was still afraid of
hitting the "rocks" at Cape Hatteras. You even showed a picture of the surf ten
miles away from the light to show how dangerous it was. Your first comment on
the experience was that it would be impossible without a GPS!

I used to cruise the Maine coast, often going 30 miles off shore and making
landfall in the fog with nothing more than a Ray-Jefferson RDF. I also carried
a paper "lifeboat sextant" but had little occasion to use it. You, on the other
hand, are scared ****less of being within 10 miles of shoals, even with 3 GPS's
on board! If you just learned how to read a chart and use a compass the world
wouldn't be such a scary place, jaxie!



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
dougies and jeffies and others seem eternally worried about NAVIGATING AT SEA
without triple redundant gps's, RDF, working C. Plath sextant, Almanac,
chronometer and SSB for time clicks.

This sailor -- who has sailed something more than a Hunter 19 or training
wheels -- thinks a single cardboard beer box is enough.

"When we asked what Babe would use to navigate, he pulled out a crude
astrolabe-like device he made from the cardboard from a beer box. "With this,
I
can get my position, without tables or a watch, to within 60 miles."

see link for more of the story:

http://www.latitude38.com/LectronicL...#anchor1085433

How many beer boxes needed to navigate an ocean?
 

jeffies, if you "navigated" through fog off Maine using just an RDF, either you
didn't understand just how lucky you were, or you were purposely trying to kill
yourself.

RDF gets you "kinda close" but that's about it. It is good for know
approximately where you are.

So, did you understand the danger you put yourself in or didn't you?

btw jeffies, why your claim now that you are willing to blunder around blindly
in a fog along a rocky coast where in the past you claimed EVERYone needed a
sextant as a backup in case "all the electronics went bad"

btw-2, we did indeed have a gps etc but we knew enough not to trust the charts
as close as we were going. If we didn't find the light where we expected to
find it, we would turn around. We found it. you, on the over hand, claim you
just blundered on.

you were lucky, dumbass.

and, it appears, to this day you don't know it.


Hey jaxie, you're the one who had three GPS's and Loran and was still afraid
of
hitting the "rocks" at Cape Hatteras. You even showed a picture of the surf
ten
miles away from the light to show how dangerous it was. Your first comment
on
the experience was that it would be impossible without a GPS!

I used to cruise the Maine coast, often going 30 miles off shore and making
landfall in the fog with nothing more than a Ray-Jefferson RDF. I also
carried
a paper "lifeboat sextant" but had little occasion to use it. You, on the
other
hand, are scared ****less of being within 10 miles of shoals, even with 3
GPS's
on board! If you just learned how to read a chart and use a compass the
world
wouldn't be such a scary place, jaxie!



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
dougies and jeffies and others seem eternally worried about NAVIGATING AT
SEA
without triple redundant gps's, RDF, working C. Plath sextant, Almanac,
chronometer and SSB for time clicks.

This sailor -- who has sailed something more than a Hunter 19 or training
wheels -- thinks a single cardboard beer box is enough.

"When we asked what Babe would use to navigate, he pulled out a crude
astrolabe-like device he made from the cardboard from a beer box. "With
this,
I
can get my position, without tables or a watch, to within 60 miles."

see link for more of the story:


http://www.latitude38.com/LectronicL...#anchor1085433

How many beer boxes needed to navigate an ocean?
 

JAXAshby wrote:
jeffies, if you "navigated" through fog off Maine using just an RDF, either you
didn't understand just how lucky you were, or you were purposely trying to kill
yourself.

RDF gets you "kinda close" but that's about it. It is good for know
approximately where you are.

You really do need to get some training, Jax. RDF was frequently used as
an approach system to obtain some reasonably accurate positions, which
could be augmented by other methods, or augment those other methods to
get some very accurate positions, especially when used by an experienced
operator with a calibrated receiver.

So, did you understand the danger you put yourself in or didn't you?

btw jeffies, why your claim now that you are willing to blunder around blindly
in a fog along a rocky coast where in the past you claimed EVERYone needed a
sextant as a backup in case "all the electronics went bad"

G You still haven't learned that a sextant is normally used for
offshore navigation.

btw-2, we did indeed have a gps etc but we knew enough not to trust the charts
as close as we were going. If we didn't find the light where we expected to
find it, we would turn around. We found it. you, on the over hand, claim you
just blundered on.

If you didn't trust the charts, why?, and why were you running that
close if this was the case? Sounds like some bad decision making when
doing your route planning.


otn

How many beer boxes needed to navigate an ocean?
 

Well, I also had a compass, depth sounder, charts, and the knowledge of how to
use them. RDF is certainly less than perfect, but its a lot better than you
claim. It was considered to be accurate to 2 degrees, but I generally assumed
I'd get no better the 5 degrees with my small unit. However, when you're
running down the coast wondering if you've passed Portland or Monhegan the RDF
is very handy. There were a large number of radio beacons back then, so they
were quite useful for navigation. A number of them had radio signals
synchronized to fog signals, so it was possible to determine distance off.

Jaxie, millions of people sailed before the GPS was invented. Just because
you're scared ****less to go anywhere without three of them doesn't mean
everyone else is.

Your story (lets be honest, its a "fantasy," right?) doesn't hold water. The
light at Diamond Shoals is miles away from the shoals and visible for 18 miles.
If you had any experience in using a gps or even your depth sounder, you would
have had no trouble finding it. Getting "within 20 seconds of turning back" is
NOT something that happens to an experienced mariner in this situation.

As for the sextant, I never, ever made the claims that you say. In fact, I've
probably said its not worth learning how to use one unless you really want to.
I do think that the rudiments of celestial should be learned by anyone who goes
offshore, but it isn't necessary. Sextants are fun to use, and handy for some
types of piloting, but I haven't carried a quality sextant on board in many
years.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, if you "navigated" through fog off Maine using just an RDF, either
you
didn't understand just how lucky you were, or you were purposely trying to
kill
yourself.

RDF gets you "kinda close" but that's about it. It is good for know
approximately where you are.

So, did you understand the danger you put yourself in or didn't you?

btw jeffies, why your claim now that you are willing to blunder around blindly
in a fog along a rocky coast where in the past you claimed EVERYone needed a
sextant as a backup in case "all the electronics went bad"

btw-2, we did indeed have a gps etc but we knew enough not to trust the charts
as close as we were going. If we didn't find the light where we expected to
find it, we would turn around. We found it. you, on the over hand, claim you
just blundered on.

you were lucky, dumbass.

and, it appears, to this day you don't know it.


Hey jaxie, you're the one who had three GPS's and Loran and was still afraid
of
hitting the "rocks" at Cape Hatteras. You even showed a picture of the surf
ten
miles away from the light to show how dangerous it was. Your first comment
on
the experience was that it would be impossible without a GPS!

I used to cruise the Maine coast, often going 30 miles off shore and making
landfall in the fog with nothing more than a Ray-Jefferson RDF. I also
carried
a paper "lifeboat sextant" but had little occasion to use it. You, on the
other
hand, are scared ****less of being within 10 miles of shoals, even with 3
GPS's
on board! If you just learned how to read a chart and use a compass the
world
wouldn't be such a scary place, jaxie!



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
dougies and jeffies and others seem eternally worried about NAVIGATING AT
SEA
without triple redundant gps's, RDF, working C. Plath sextant, Almanac,
chronometer and SSB for time clicks.

This sailor -- who has sailed something more than a Hunter 19 or training
wheels -- thinks a single cardboard beer box is enough.

"When we asked what Babe would use to navigate, he pulled out a crude
astrolabe-like device he made from the cardboard from a beer box. "With
this,
I
can get my position, without tables or a watch, to within 60 miles."

see link for more of the story:



http://www.latitude38.com/LectronicL...#anchor1085433

How many beer boxes needed to navigate an ocean?
 

over the nee, you obviously have no idea how RDF works.

[snip a bunch of nonsense, but leave the following nonsense in]

If you didn't trust the charts, why?,

oh, I dunno. good seamanship maybe? An understanding of how charts were
produced? Maybe just making sure the lights were working that night?

and why were you running that
close if this was the case?

because we could see the lights, and they appeared where we expected them too.
When one didn't appear as expected we became extremely watchful, and were ready
to turn around if it didn't appear very shortly. It appeared.

Sounds like some bad decision making when
doing your route planning.


I didn't plan the route. The career merchant marine with a couple decades
offshore racing experience did. He was trying to skirt inside the Gulf Stream
so we didn't have to cross it and then recross it sometime later. If the light
hadn't appeared we were within a few seconds of turning around. so, what's the
problem?

How many beer boxes needed to navigate an ocean?
 

jeffie, no RDF on any sailboat gave "accuracy" to withing 5*, let alone 2*.
Your statement just shows you have no idea how RDF works.

wondering if you've passed Portland or Monhegan the RDF
is very handy.

that is "5 degrees" by your estimation above? yeah, un huh.

millions of people sailed before the GPS was invented.

No kidding?

wanna take a guess how many of those who wandered around in a fog with granite
ledges in the water made port? For your information, approximated 25% of ALL
commercial shipping vessels made in the last 50 years of sail powered shipping
sunk before the boats were retired. one in four. That is what fog and granite
is for, to sink ships. ask around with the old timers and see what they did
say 40 years ago.

btw, well into the 1970's and even into the 1980's a cheap tranistor radio from
Radio Schack was considered an acceptable alternative to the commercially
available RDF units for recreational sailboats. Why a cheap radio from Radio
Schack? Because the cheap radio had a more directional antenna than the better
quality radios. I believe Hal Roth used a Radio Schack radio into the 1970's
and carried it as back up even later.

Getting "within 20 seconds of turning back" is
NOT something that happens to an experienced mariner in this situation.

really? you mean that career merchant marine was inexperienced? I kinda think
of him as a bit more seaman than some clown plowing through the granite ledges
of Maine listening to rock music radio stations (and a couple of dit dah dah
dit dah stations) to determine where he was.

btw, that paper sextant you said you carried and used in the fog to tell where
you were, didn't the moisture in the fog cause the paper to fall apart?

How many beers before jaxie starts to make sense?
 

"JAXAshby" wrote i...
For your information, approximated 25% of ALL
commercial shipping vessels made in the last 50 years of sail powered
shipping
sunk before the boats were retired. one in four.

it was those darn U-boats hiding in LIS.

SV

How many beers before jaxie starts to make sense?
 

sail powered commercial shipping was kaput long before any u-boats got on this
side of the atlantic.

For your information, approximated 25% of ALL
commercial shipping vessels made in the last 50 years of sail powered
shipping
sunk before the boats were retired. one in four.

it was those darn U-boats hiding in LIS.

SV

How many beer boxes needed to navigate an ocean?
 

JAXAshby wrote:
over the nee, you obviously have no idea how RDF works.

[snip a bunch of nonsense, but leave the following nonsense in]

ROFLMAO In other words, Jax, YOU don't know anything about RDF as used
on ships, and didn't, as per usual have a clue as to how it could be
used, or what I was talking about.


If you didn't trust the charts, why?,


oh, I dunno.
\
You got THAT right !!!!

snipped a bunch of nonsense


and why were you running that
close if this was the case?


because we could see the lights, and they appeared where we expected them too.
When one didn't appear as expected we became extremely watchful, and were ready
to turn around if it didn't appear very shortly. It appeared.

In other words, you could not trust your navigation skills ..... wise
choice. It's becoming more and more obvious that the only thing you are
experienced at is walking the floors and docks at boat shows, reading
boating magazines, and occasionally sailing as someone's crew.


Sounds like some bad decision making when
doing your route planning.



I didn't plan the route. The career merchant marine with a couple decades
offshore racing experience did. He was trying to skirt inside the Gulf Stream
so we didn't have to cross it and then recross it sometime later. If the light
hadn't appeared we were within a few seconds of turning around. so, what's the
problem?

Career merchant marine...... sure .... none of us believe that one.
Jax, the more of your post I read on this subject, the more I know you
don't have any experience or knowledge of the subject at hand. You were
along for the ride, and don't know what was going on or why.

otn

How many beers before jaxie starts to make sense?
 

from u-boatopia, of course.

really? from where?

"JAXAshby" wrote ...
sail powered u-boats got on this
side of the atlantic.

How many beers before jaxie starts to make sense?
 

really? from where?

"JAXAshby" wrote ...
sail powered u-boats got on this
side of the atlantic.

How many beer boxes needed to navigate an ocean?
 

don't know anything about RDF as used
on ships,

of course, RDF on ships IS different from RDF on sailing vessels IS different
from RDF in aircraft IS different from RDF in blimps.

yup, totally different. Different concept, different equipment, different
training, different accuracy. Different everything. All the way back to 1920
when RDF became actual.

but, you knew that didn't you over the nee?

In other words, you could not trust your navigation skills

it wasn't the nav skills we didn't trust, it was the charts. But I was in good
company. the career merchant marine and experienced ocean racer didn't trust
them either.

but you -- over the nee -- would blindly drive on a flank speed, right?
jeffies said he would and did in a fog. are you not the sailor jeffies is?

How many beers before jaxie starts to make sense?
 

JAXAshby wrote:
sail powered commercial shipping was kaput long before any u-boats got on this
side of the atlantic.

No it wasn't

How many beers before jaxie starts to make sense?
 

oh? and just when was sail powered commercial shipping considered to be kaput
as a cost effective transport mechanism?

sail powered commercial shipping was kaput long before any u-boats got on
this
side of the atlantic.

No it wasn't

How many beers before jaxie starts to make sense?
 

JAXAshby wrote:
oh? and just when was sail powered commercial shipping considered to be kaput
as a cost effective transport mechanism?

Depends on where you are in the world. In some areas they are still
making money. In WW2, there were still a number of them sailing. WW2 was
probably the final straw.

otn

How many beer boxes needed to navigate an ocean?
 

"JAXAshby" once again demonstrated his stupidity with:
jeffie, no RDF on any sailboat gave "accuracy" to withing 5*, let alone 2*.
Your statement just shows you have no idea how RDF works.

jaxie, you've never seen one, let alone used one.


wondering if you've passed Portland or Monhegan the RDF
is very handy.

that is "5 degrees" by your estimation above? yeah, un huh.

Don't go to Maine, jaxie, it would be too scary for you.


millions of people sailed before the GPS was invented.

No kidding?

Nope. Millions.


wanna take a guess how many of those who wandered around in a fog with granite
ledges in the water made port? For your information, approximated 25% of ALL
commercial shipping vessels made in the last 50 years of sail powered shipping
sunk before the boats were retired. one in four. That is what fog and
granite
is for, to sink ships. ask around with the old timers and see what they did
say 40 years ago.

They used RDF for approaches. I think you're have a little problem with dates,
jaxie. RDF was not used (certainly not commonly) in the "last 50 years of sail
powered shipping." For instance, the last coffee-carrying sailing ship docked
in New York in 1914. The first radiobeacons were not set up until the '20's.
The automated lighthouse radiobeacons soon followed. It was because the US
adopted radiobeacons that it had one of the best safety records in the middle of
the last century.


btw, well into the 1970's and even into the 1980's a cheap tranistor radio
from
Radio Schack was considered an acceptable alternative to the commercially
available RDF units for recreational sailboats. Why a cheap radio from Radio
Schack? Because the cheap radio had a more directional antenna than the
better
quality radios. I believe Hal Roth used a Radio Schack radio into the 1970's
and carried it as back up even later.

Good for him. What's your point? You seem to be agreeing that it is useful.
But you're wrong that the pocket radios were preferable, that's just a myth.
There were certainly people saying "I can do just as well with my pocket radio"
but have used both, I can tell you it isn't true.


Getting "within 20 seconds of turning back" is
NOT something that happens to an experienced mariner in this situation.

really? you mean that career merchant marine was inexperienced?

The fact that he took you as a crew is proof enough for anyone here that he was
a desperate loser!

I kinda think
of him as a bit more seaman than some clown plowing through the granite ledges
of Maine listening to rock music radio stations (and a couple of dit dah dah
dit dah stations) to determine where he was.

Then why was he lost with 3 GPS's and a Loran on board? It sure seems like I
had a better idea of where I was.

You keep trying to prove to us that you're a great mariner because you were near
someone else that you think was great. But your stories just show that you had
no idea what was going on. You were scared ****less thinking you were about to
hit "rocks" that don't exist.

If you were within "20 seconds of turning back" it means you thought you were
within a few hundred yards of disaster. But the charts are pretty clear: as
long as you had 20 fathoms of water you weren't within 10 miles of a hazard.
Even at 10 fathoms, you'd stay miles from the shoals. You weren't "threading
the needle" in some DownEast tickle, you were rounding Diamond Shoals Light - 15
miles offshore, 8 miles from the shoals, with an 18 mile light. You had 3
GPS's, a Loran, and I assume a depth sounder. If you had the least doubt as to
where you were, you're a damn fool! If you were trying to "cut the corner"
inside of the light you're a damn fool. If you were about to "turn back" you're
a damn fool. So tell us, jaxie, what kind of fool are you?


btw, that paper sextant you said you carried and used in the fog to tell where
you were, didn't the moisture in the fog cause the paper to fall apart?


Its stayed tucked away for 25 years now, I've only used it a few times.

How many beer boxes needed to navigate an ocean?
 

JAXAshby wrote:
don't know anything about RDF as used
on ships,


of course, RDF on ships IS different from RDF on sailing vessels IS different
from RDF in aircraft IS different from RDF in blimps.

yup, totally different. Different concept, different equipment, different
training, different accuracy. Different everything. All the way back to 1920
when RDF became actual.

but, you knew that didn't you over the nee?

ROFL Nice try, but it does nothing to change the fact YOU don't know how
to use it, how it can be used. It tells me you are unaware of the
problems of a ship (be it sail or power) trying to use an RDF signal set
up for aircraft .... it tells me you are not aware of how to obtain a
position ....it tells me you are slinging your usual BS to cover up the
fact you are a rank amateur with minimal skills and knowledge of navigation.


In other words, you could not trust your navigation skills


it wasn't the nav skills we didn't trust, it was the charts. But I was in good
company. the career merchant marine and experienced ocean racer didn't trust
them either.

Why? and don't give me the good seamanship BS, cause you wouldn't know
good from bad, and until you can tell me what this career merchant
mariner was, I'll consider him a career BR.
BTW, If you didn't trust the charts, you shouldn't have been anywhere
near land or shoals, and screw the current. (I find it interesting, that
considering the amount of ship traffic which passes this area daily,
that some s'posed career merchant mariner wouldn't trust the charts,
unless he was cutting too close to the shoals, and wouldn't have a good
idea as to how far off he could be and miss the current)
I know you don't have a clue about navigation, Jax, but your post are
beginning to indicate that your career merchant mariner BR, didn't either.


but you -- over the nee -- would blindly drive on a flank speed, right?
jeffies said he would and did in a fog. are you not the sailor jeffies is?

Merchant ships don't use the term "flank speed" (that's Navy), and no, I
never drive on, without knowing where I was or was going, but unlike you
and your so-called career merchant mariner, I always have more than one
way to confirm my position, when in "pilottage" waters.
You flunk the test (as it were) if you needed to see a particular light
under those conditions to confirm your position. You s'posedly had other
methods of navigation and either were incapable of using them or
inexperienced in knowing how to (I'd opt for the last two).

otn

How many beer boxes needed to navigate an ocean?
 

of course I am "aware"

RDF tells you where -- and ONLY where -- a particular signal came from.

you do-do.

of course, RDF on ships IS different from RDF on sailing vessels IS
different
from RDF in aircraft IS different from RDF in blimps.

yup, totally different. Different concept, different equipment, different
training, different accuracy. Different everything. All the way back to
1920
when RDF became actual.

but, you knew that didn't you over the nee?

ROFL Nice try, but it does nothing to change the fact YOU don't know how
to use it, how it can be used. It tells me you are unaware of the
problems of a ship (be it sail or power) trying to use an RDF signal set
up for aircraft .... it tells me you are not aware of how to obtain a
position ....it tells me you are slinging your usual BS to cover up the
fact you are a rank amateur with minimal skills and knowledge of navigation.


In other words, you could not trust your navigation skills


it wasn't the nav skills we didn't trust, it was the charts. But I was in
good
company. the career merchant marine and experienced ocean racer didn't
trust
them either.

Why? and don't give me the good seamanship BS, cause you wouldn't know
good from bad, and until you can tell me what this career merchant
mariner was, I'll consider him a career BR.
BTW, If you didn't trust the charts, you shouldn't have been anywhere
near land or shoals, and screw the current. (I find it interesting, that
considering the amount of ship traffic which passes this area daily,
that some s'posed career merchant mariner wouldn't trust the charts,
unless he was cutting too close to the shoals, and wouldn't have a good
idea as to how far off he could be and miss the current)
I know you don't have a clue about navigation, Jax, but your post are
beginning to indicate that your career merchant mariner BR, didn't either.


but you -- over the nee -- would blindly drive on a flank speed, right?
jeffies said he would and did in a fog. are you not the sailor jeffies is?

Merchant ships don't use the term "flank speed" (that's Navy), and no, I
never drive on, without knowing where I was or was going, but unlike you
and your so-called career merchant mariner, I always have more than one
way to confirm my position, when in "pilottage" waters.
You flunk the test (as it were) if you needed to see a particular light
under those conditions to confirm your position. You s'posedly had other
methods of navigation and either were incapable of using them or
inexperienced in knowing how to (I'd opt for the last two).

otn

How many beers before jaxie starts to make sense?
 

right. for where in the back woods hell you are. for the rest of the world
that was 1905 or 1908 or 1912, depending upon locale

oh? and just when was sail powered commercial shipping considered to be
kaput
as a cost effective transport mechanism?

Depends on where you are in the world. In some areas they are still
making money. In WW2, there were still a number of them sailing. WW2 was
probably the final straw.

otn

How many beer boxes needed to navigate an ocean?
 

of course, I have seen one. In fact many, starting about 40 years ago.

who the hell -- besides jeffies -- would claim that RDF make one totally free
from crashing into granite ledges in Maine in a fog, day after day after day?

All because RDF "can tell you where you are within 2*".

weigh to go, jeffies.


jeffie, no RDF on any sailboat gave "accuracy" to withing 5*, let alone 2*.
Your statement just shows you have no idea how RDF works.

jaxie, you've never seen one, let alone used one.


wondering if you've passed Portland or Monhegan the RDF
is very handy.

that is "5 degrees" by your estimation above? yeah, un huh.

Don't go to Maine, jaxie, it would be too scary for you.


millions of people sailed before the GPS was invented.

No kidding?

Nope. Millions.


wanna take a guess how many of those who wandered around in a fog with
granite
ledges in the water made port? For your information, approximated 25% of
ALL
commercial shipping vessels made in the last 50 years of sail powered
shipping
sunk before the boats were retired. one in four. That is what fog and
granite
is for, to sink ships. ask around with the old timers and see what they
did
say 40 years ago.

They used RDF for approaches. I think you're have a little problem with
dates,
jaxie. RDF was not used (certainly not commonly) in the "last 50 years of
sail
powered shipping." For instance, the last coffee-carrying sailing ship
docked
in New York in 1914. The first radiobeacons were not set up until the '20's.
The automated lighthouse radiobeacons soon followed. It was because the US
adopted radiobeacons that it had one of the best safety records in the middle
of
the last century.


btw, well into the 1970's and even into the 1980's a cheap tranistor radio
from
Radio Schack was considered an acceptable alternative to the commercially
available RDF units for recreational sailboats. Why a cheap radio from
Radio
Schack? Because the cheap radio had a more directional antenna than the
better
quality radios. I believe Hal Roth used a Radio Schack radio into the
1970's
and carried it as back up even later.

Good for him. What's your point? You seem to be agreeing that it is useful.
But you're wrong that the pocket radios were preferable, that's just a myth.
There were certainly people saying "I can do just as well with my pocket
radio"
but have used both, I can tell you it isn't true.


Getting "within 20 seconds of turning back" is
NOT something that happens to an experienced mariner in this situation.

really? you mean that career merchant marine was inexperienced?

The fact that he took you as a crew is proof enough for anyone here that he
was
a desperate loser!

I kinda think
of him as a bit more seaman than some clown plowing through the granite
ledges
of Maine listening to rock music radio stations (and a couple of dit dah
dah
dit dah stations) to determine where he was.

Then why was he lost with 3 GPS's and a Loran on board? It sure seems like I
had a better idea of where I was.

You keep trying to prove to us that you're a great mariner because you were
near
someone else that you think was great. But your stories just show that you
had
no idea what was going on. You were scared ****less thinking you were about
to
hit "rocks" that don't exist.

If you were within "20 seconds of turning back" it means you thought you were
within a few hundred yards of disaster. But the charts are pretty clear: as
long as you had 20 fathoms of water you weren't within 10 miles of a hazard.
Even at 10 fathoms, you'd stay miles from the shoals. You weren't "threading
the needle" in some DownEast tickle, you were rounding Diamond Shoals Light -
15
miles offshore, 8 miles from the shoals, with an 18 mile light. You had 3
GPS's, a Loran, and I assume a depth sounder. If you had the least doubt as
to
where you were, you're a damn fool! If you were trying to "cut the corner"
inside of the light you're a damn fool. If you were about to "turn back"
you're
a damn fool. So tell us, jaxie, what kind of fool are you?


btw, that paper sextant you said you carried and used in the fog to tell
where
you were, didn't the moisture in the fog cause the paper to fall apart?


Its stayed tucked away for 25 years now, I've only used it a few times.

How many beers before jaxie starts to make sense?
 

Ever heard of the Uss Turtle? one of the first underwater warships? Used in
the Revolutionary war
"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
sail powered commercial shipping was kaput long before any u-boats got on
this
side of the atlantic.

For your information, approximated 25% of ALL
commercial shipping vessels made in the last 50 years of sail powered
shipping
sunk before the boats were retired. one in four.

it was those darn U-boats hiding in LIS.

SV

How many beers before jaxie starts to make sense?
 

was it refered to -- in history -- as a "U-Boat"? if so, did it reduce sail
powered to commercial vessels to nothingness? If not, when was sail powered
commercial shipping kaput relative to U-Boats?



sail powered commercial shipping was kaput long before any u-boats got on
this
side of the atlantic.

For your information, approximated 25% of ALL
commercial shipping vessels made in the last 50 years of sail powered
shipping
sunk before the boats were retired. one in four.

it was those darn U-boats hiding in LIS.

SV

How many beers before jaxie starts to make sense?
 

Perhaps it was not referred to as a U-boat, but it seems to me someone here
claimes that U-boat is a generic reference to submarines, you don't
happen to recall who that was do you?
http://www.bowfin.org/website/educat...rtle/article/a
rticle.htm Check out this page and then we will discuss weather there were
submarines as warships during the age of sail.
"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
was it refered to -- in history -- as a "U-Boat"? if so, did it reduce
sail
powered to commercial vessels to nothingness? If not, when was sail
powered
commercial shipping kaput relative to U-Boats?



sail powered commercial shipping was kaput long before any u-boats got
on
this
side of the atlantic.

For your information, approximated 25% of ALL
commercial shipping vessels made in the last 50 years of sail
powered
shipping
sunk before the boats were retired. one in four.

it was those darn U-boats hiding in LIS.

SV

How many beers before jaxie starts to make sense?
 

only in winds above 30kts.


"JAXAshby" wrote ...
was it refered to -- in history -- as a "U-Boat"? if so, did it reduce
sail

How many beer boxes needed to navigate an ocean?
 

"Jeff Morris" wrote ...

If you had the least doubt as to
where you were, you're a damn fool! If you were trying to "cut the
corner"
inside of the light you're a damn fool. If you were about to "turn back"
you're
a damn fool. So tell us, jaxie, what kind of fool are you?

a damn fool?

SV

How many beers before jaxie starts to make sense?
 

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...

"JAXAshby" scrawled incoherently
For your information, approximated 25% of ALL
commercial shipping vessels made in the last 50 years of sail powered
shipping
sunk before the boats were retired. one in four.

it was those darn U-boats hiding in LIS.

SV

At least a dozen or so.
John Cairns

How many beer bongs before jaxie starts to make sense?
 

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...

"JAXAshby" keruffled thusly
For your information, approximated 25% of ALL
commercial shipping vessels made in the last 50 years of sail powered
shipping
sunk before the boats were retired. one in four.

it was those darn U-boats hiding in LIS.

SV

Four or five, no doubt.
John Cairns

How many beer boxes needed to navigate an ocean?
 

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
of course I am "aware"

RDF tells you where -- and ONLY where -- a particular signal came from.

Sorry jax, I guess you don't know how it works. The chart or book tells you
where it comes from. The RDF tells you where that is relative to a boat. Its
called an "LOP." They'll tell you about it in the Power Squadron course

How many beer boxes needed to navigate an ocean?
 

"JAXAshby" wrote:

All because RDF "can tell you where you are within 2*".


I see you're quoting Bowditch now. I didn't think you knew what that was.

How many beers before jaxie starts to make sense?
 

dude, I hope you believe in an afterlife, because you certainly are lost to
this one.

From: "The Carrolls"
Date: 3/6/2004 11:36 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Perhaps it was not referred to as a U-boat, but it seems to me someone here
claimes that U-boat is a generic reference to submarines, you don't
happen to recall who that was do you?
http://www.bowfin.org/website/educat...rtle/article/a
rticle.htm Check out this page and then we will discuss weather there were
submarines as warships during the age of sail.
"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
was it refered to -- in history -- as a "U-Boat"? if so, did it reduce
sail
powered to commercial vessels to nothingness? If not, when was sail
powered
commercial shipping kaput relative to U-Boats?



sail powered commercial shipping was kaput long before any u-boats got
on
this
side of the atlantic.

For your information, approximated 25% of ALL
commercial shipping vessels made in the last 50 years of sail
powered
shipping
sunk before the boats were retired. one in four.

it was those darn U-boats hiding in LIS.

SV

How many beer boxes needed to navigate an ocean?
 

obviously, jeffies, you don't understand English. try again.

RDF tell from direction the signal came from. That is all.

And it doesn't do it all that well.

now, TRY AGAIN, and don't be so stupid this time.

RDF tells you where -- and ONLY where -- a particular signal came from.

Sorry jax, I guess you don't know how it works. The chart or book tells you
where it comes from. The RDF tells you where that is relative to a boat.
Its
called an "LOP." They'll tell you about it in the Power Squadron course

How many beer boxes needed to navigate an ocean?
 

no, you are not.

RDF equipment used on recreational sailboats was not capable of that accuracy.

have you ever seen one, jeffies? Do you know how they operate? Do you know
why the operate?

How many beer boxes needed to navigate an ocean?
 

So with one RDF signal, and a chart, you have a "Line Of Position" or LOP. Add
in any other piece of information, like a depth contour, and you have a Fix.
Its called "piloting," jaxie, you should learn how to do it some time.

Clearly, if you had learned a few basics like this you would not have been
tempted to "turn back" at Hatteras even though you had a boat full of
electronics.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
obviously, jeffies, you don't understand English. try again.

RDF tell from direction the signal came from. That is all.

And it doesn't do it all that well.

now, TRY AGAIN, and don't be so stupid this time.

RDF tells you where -- and ONLY where -- a particular signal came from.

Sorry jax, I guess you don't know how it works. The chart or book tells you
where it comes from. The RDF tells you where that is relative to a boat.
Its
called an "LOP." They'll tell you about it in the Power Squadron course

How many beer boxes needed to navigate an ocean?
 

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
no, you are not.
Actually Bowditch and other government references say "two degree" accuracy.


RDF equipment used on recreational sailboats was not capable of that accuracy.

As I said, I didn't expect better the 5 degrees.


have you ever seen one, jeffies?

As I said, I carried one board. I also regularly cruised on boats that had
them.

Do you know how they operate?

yes. You start by turning them on.

Do you know why the operate?

Physics, jaxie.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?Y4C5213A7

How many beer boxes needed to navigate an ocean?
 

okay, jeffies. you are trying to tell us you really do know something about
RDF.

so let's call your bluff.

Tell us -- if you can -- just RDF equipment pointing at some radio tower many
miles away is different from a magnetic compass pointing at some lighthouse a
mile away.

Address -- if you can -- the difference in accuracy (be specific as to degree
of uncertainty) between close at hand visional sighting and far away
auditory/cheap volt meter fixing, each system using much the same mechanical
measuring tools.

we will wait for your explanation, jeffies. particualary that "two degrees"
stuff.

jeffies, it never ceases to amaze me how ignorant you are AND how you can't
even seem to realize it.

So with one RDF signal, and a chart, you have a "Line Of Position" or LOP.
Add
in any other piece of information, like a depth contour, and you have a Fix.
Its called "piloting," jaxie, you should learn how to do it some time.

Clearly, if you had learned a few basics like this you would not have been
tempted to "turn back" at Hatteras even though you had a boat full of
electronics.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
obviously, jeffies, you don't understand English. try again.

RDF tell from direction the signal came from. That is all.

And it doesn't do it all that well.

now, TRY AGAIN, and don't be so stupid this time.

RDF tells you where -- and ONLY where -- a particular signal came from.

Sorry jax, I guess you don't know how it works. The chart or book tells
you
where it comes from. The RDF tells you where that is relative to a boat.
Its
called an "LOP." They'll tell you about it in the Power Squadron course

How many beer boxes needed to navigate an ocean?
 

jeffies, I didn't ask you for a google site. I asked you to explan how RDF
works. It is simple, simple enough so I knew how it is done when I was still
in jr hs. I want to hear _your_ explanation, jeffies, and if you understood
it, you could explane it in less than 10 seconds.

but then if you understood it you wouldn't be such a fool as to say you could
get even 5* accuracy on a recreational sailboat.

btw jeffies, wanna explain how time of year effects RDF accuracy? How about
rain? Sunspots?

Go ahead. trying googling those facts (and they are facts in relation to RDF).

no, you are not.
Actually Bowditch and other government references say "two degree" accuracy.


RDF equipment used on recreational sailboats was not capable of that
accuracy.

As I said, I didn't expect better the 5 degrees.


have you ever seen one, jeffies?

As I said, I carried one board. I also regularly cruised on boats that had
them.

Do you know how they operate?

yes. You start by turning them on.

Do you know why the operate?

Physics, jaxie.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?Y4C5213A7

How many beer boxes needed to navigate an ocean?
 

JAXAshby wrote:
of course I am "aware"

RDF tells you where -- and ONLY where -- a particular signal came from.

you do-do.

ROFLMAO ..... and we are all AWARE, that you are incapable of making any
use of this information.


otn

How many beer boxes needed to navigate an ocean?
 

JAXAshby wrote:
obviously, jeffies, you don't understand English. try again.

RDF tell from direction the signal came from. That is all.

And it doesn't do it all that well.

now, TRY AGAIN, and don't be so stupid this time.


And again, you're too stupid to understand or be able to make any use of
that information.
Keep reading the Bowditch, Jax ....until then, we'll all enjoy laughing
at you.....not sure we've ever stopped....

otn

How many beer boxes needed to navigate an ocean?
 

JAXAshby wrote:
no, you are not.

RDF equipment used on recreational sailboats was not capable of that accuracy.

have you ever seen one, jeffies? Do you know how they operate? Do you know
why the operate?


And, you know this, how?


otn