have blue
 

http://www.haveblue.com/xv1/index.htm

have blue
 

Interesting, but probably not with pocketbook reach of the common sailor =
for years and years. Question, though. They're saying it's a renewable =
source of energy, and I agree, the solar and wind power parts of the =
equation are. The H2O part, though....If everyone switched to these =
engines, not just on their boats but also other vehicles and other =
machines (gas stations that pump water instead of gas) then won't we be =
creating a different environmental problem? All that free oxygen =
roaming around looking for a lonely hydrogen atom to hook up with? If =
we went to a water-based energy system, wouldn't that ultimately affect =
weather patterns down the road? What about the water shortage we now =
face? Who knows, maybe the Martians came up with this idea eons ago and =
that's why we're only finding dry sedimentary rock there now.

--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

have blue
 

Looks like another attempt by that electric motor company to sell some motors.
They have been going to boat shows for years trying to get people to toss their
diesels. They pitch people on the fact their motor weighs less and requires
less maintenence. What they don't tell people is how many batteries they need.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

have blue
 

''renewable technologies such as photovoltaic (solar), wind, "

New radical high tech stuff, eh?

Scotty

"Roy G. Biv" wrote in message
...
http://www.haveblue.com/xv1/index.htm

have blue
 

Why didn't they throw in a perpetual motion machine?


"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
''renewable technologies such as photovoltaic (solar), wind, "

New radical high tech stuff, eh?

Scotty

"Roy G. Biv" wrote in message
...
http://www.haveblue.com/xv1/index.htm

have blue
 

Actually, they do. The weight is distributed so it's not as big a deal
as a hunk of iron sitting in an inconvenient spot.

"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...
Looks like another attempt by that electric motor company to sell some
motors.
They have been going to boat shows for years trying to get people to toss
their
diesels. They pitch people on the fact their motor weighs less and
requires
less maintenence. What they don't tell people is how many batteries they
need.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

have blue
 

and *this* the reason people have been abandoning their ic engines in favor
this great new technology?

Actually, they do. The weight is distributed so it's not as big a deal
as a hunk of iron sitting in an inconvenient spot.

"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...
Looks like another attempt by that electric motor company to sell some
motors.
They have been going to boat shows for years trying to get people to toss
their
diesels. They pitch people on the fact their motor weighs less and
requires
less maintenence. What they don't tell people is how many batteries they
need.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

have blue
 

because if they called it "perpetual motion" the patent office would require
them to provide a working model with any paperwork submitted.

have blue
 

It's one of the reasons, although "abandoning" is probably a bit
strong. Another is the potential ecological savings (although there's
still a big issue with disposing of batteries), and there's the added
benefit of more electricity available for whatever... washing machines.
Who knows.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
and *this* the reason people have been abandoning their ic engines in
favor
this great new technology?

Actually, they do. The weight is distributed so it's not as big a deal
as a hunk of iron sitting in an inconvenient spot.

"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...
Looks like another attempt by that electric motor company to sell some
motors.
They have been going to boat shows for years trying to get people to
toss
their
diesels. They pitch people on the fact their motor weighs less and
requires
less maintenence. What they don't tell people is how many batteries
they
need.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

have blue
 

jonny, the wretchedly stupid public just hasn't caught to buying $10,000 worth
of solar panels to hang on one's boat, along with $5,000 worth of lead acid
batteries to drive a umpty-ump thousand dollar electric motor to push a
sailboat one sunny day out of ten sunny days at 1/2 the boat speed of a $6,000
diesel.

At least the wretched public hasn't been doing so so far.

It's one of the reasons, although "abandoning" is probably a bit
strong. Another is the potential ecological savings (although there's
still a big issue with disposing of batteries), and there's the added
benefit of more electricity available for whatever... washing machines.
Who knows.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
and *this* the reason people have been abandoning their ic engines in
favor
this great new technology?

Actually, they do. The weight is distributed so it's not as big a deal
as a hunk of iron sitting in an inconvenient spot.

"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...
Looks like another attempt by that electric motor company to sell some
motors.
They have been going to boat shows for years trying to get people to
toss
their
diesels. They pitch people on the fact their motor weighs less and
requires
less maintenence. What they don't tell people is how many batteries
they
need.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

have blue
 

Doesn't Gilly have a patent on that?

Scotty

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Why didn't they throw in a perpetual motion machine?


"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
''renewable technologies such as photovoltaic (solar), wind, "

New radical high tech stuff, eh?

Scotty

"Roy G. Biv" wrote in message
...
http://www.haveblue.com/xv1/index.htm

have blue
 

That's a "Perpetual Personality Machine"



"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Doesn't Gilly have a patent on that?

Scotty

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Why didn't they throw in a perpetual motion machine?


"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
''renewable technologies such as photovoltaic (solar), wind, "

New radical high tech stuff, eh?

Scotty

"Roy G. Biv" wrote in message
...
http://www.haveblue.com/xv1/index.htm

have blue
 

Sorry Jax, but no solar panels are required. The bats are much, much
less than that, and it'll push the boat at hull speed with no noise and
virtually no vibration. No oil changes, no fuel stops. Switch out the
bats every three or four years.

Do you know anything about anything?

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jonny, the wretchedly stupid public just hasn't caught to buying $10,000
worth
of solar panels to hang on one's boat, along with $5,000 worth of lead
acid
batteries to drive a umpty-ump thousand dollar electric motor to push a
sailboat one sunny day out of ten sunny days at 1/2 the boat speed of a
$6,000
diesel.

At least the wretched public hasn't been doing so so far.

It's one of the reasons, although "abandoning" is probably a bit
strong. Another is the potential ecological savings (although there's
still a big issue with disposing of batteries), and there's the added
benefit of more electricity available for whatever... washing machines.
Who knows.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
and *this* the reason people have been abandoning their ic engines in
favor
this great new technology?

Actually, they do. The weight is distributed so it's not as big a deal
as a hunk of iron sitting in an inconvenient spot.

"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...
Looks like another attempt by that electric motor company to sell
some
motors.
They have been going to boat shows for years trying to get people to
toss
their
diesels. They pitch people on the fact their motor weighs less and
requires
less maintenence. What they don't tell people is how many batteries
they
need.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

have blue
 

ah, and the "batts" are charge how?

have blue
 

They're charged by the prop spinning while sailing.

This isn't the only one, but check this web site for more
info.

http://www.solomontechnologies.com/


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ah, and the "batts" are charge how?

have blue
 

let's see if I got this straight.

you guys are saying that between solar panals and a generator belted to the
prop shaft you will have more than enough amps produced to drive a 20 hp
electric motor for up to several hours, and therefore the public is going to
stampede the vendor to pay upwards of $40K for a motor, panals, a few thousand
pounds of batteries all to avoid paying $8k for a diesel engine, plus fuel.

boy, you guys sure do have dreams, don't you.

"Jonathan Ganz"
scribbled thusly:

They're charged by the prop spinning while sailing.

This isn't the only one, but check this web site for more
info.

http://www.solomontechnologies.com/


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ah, and the "batts" are charge how?






Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

have blue
 

Jaxass, looks like you can't read. I said, no solar panels. Not sure
where you got $40K either. You're proving yourself over and
over to be an idiot.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
let's see if I got this straight.

you guys are saying that between solar panals and a generator belted to
the
prop shaft you will have more than enough amps produced to drive a 20 hp
electric motor for up to several hours, and therefore the public is going
to
stampede the vendor to pay upwards of $40K for a motor, panals, a few
thousand
pounds of batteries all to avoid paying $8k for a diesel engine, plus
fuel.

boy, you guys sure do have dreams, don't you.

"Jonathan Ganz"
scribbled thusly:

They're charged by the prop spinning while sailing.

This isn't the only one, but check this web site for more
info.

http://www.solomontechnologies.com/


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ah, and the "batts" are charge how?






Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

have blue
 

ah, NO solar panels. I see. Just an alternator belted to the spinning prop
shaft puttin out maybe 6 amps.

So, let's add it up. 6 amps at 12 volts for 24 hours = 1,728 watts, which =
2.3 hp-hours.

But you need 20 hp for up to 20 hours, or 400 hp-hours, or about 300,000 watts,
which will take you approximately 173.611111 days sailing to produce.

You would also need battery capacity of 50,000 amps.

This is to motor not even 1 day.

I dunno, joony. you think it is doable?

Jaxass, looks like you can't read. I said, no solar panels. Not sure
where you got $40K either. You're proving yourself over and
over to be an idiot.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
let's see if I got this straight.

you guys are saying that between solar panals and a generator belted to
the
prop shaft you will have more than enough amps produced to drive a 20 hp
electric motor for up to several hours, and therefore the public is going
to
stampede the vendor to pay upwards of $40K for a motor, panals, a few
thousand
pounds of batteries all to avoid paying $8k for a diesel engine, plus
fuel.

boy, you guys sure do have dreams, don't you.

"Jonathan Ganz"
scribbled thusly:

They're charged by the prop spinning while sailing.

This isn't the only one, but check this web site for more
info.

http://www.solomontechnologies.com/


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ah, and the "batts" are charge how?






Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

have blue
 

On 03 Mar 2004 22:37:16 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

jonny, the wretchedly stupid public just hasn't caught to buying $10,000 worth
of solar panels to hang on one's boat, along with $5,000 worth of lead acid
batteries to drive a umpty-ump thousand dollar electric motor to push a
sailboat one sunny day out of ten sunny days at 1/2 the boat speed of a $6,000
diesel.

At least the wretched public hasn't been doing so so far.

Did you even visit the website? They are discussing hydrogen fuel
cell technology, not lead acid batteries driving an electric motor. I
believe you have missed the point they are trying to demonstrate.

It's one of the reasons, although "abandoning" is probably a bit
strong. Another is the potential ecological savings (although there's
still a big issue with disposing of batteries), and there's the added
benefit of more electricity available for whatever... washing machines.
Who knows.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
and *this* the reason people have been abandoning their ic engines in
favor
this great new technology?

Actually, they do. The weight is distributed so it's not as big a deal
as a hunk of iron sitting in an inconvenient spot.

"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...
Looks like another attempt by that electric motor company to sell some
motors.
They have been going to boat shows for years trying to get people to
toss
their
diesels. They pitch people on the fact their motor weighs less and
requires
less maintenence. What they don't tell people is how many batteries
they
need.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

have blue
 

and the storage batteries to hold the amps until you can break down water is
where? And how are they recharged?

It *IS* perpetual motion to suggest that breaking down water into hydrogen and
then "burning" the hydrogen to produce power AND amps to break down th hydrogen

If you want 400 hp-hours of energy output, you have to have at least 400
hp-hours energy input.

simple fact of physics: TANSTAAFL

(JAXAshby) wrote:

jonny, the wretchedly stupid public just hasn't caught to buying $10,000
worth
of solar panels to hang on one's boat, along with $5,000 worth of lead acid
batteries to drive a umpty-ump thousand dollar electric motor to push a
sailboat one sunny day out of ten sunny days at 1/2 the boat speed of a
$6,000
diesel.

At least the wretched public hasn't been doing so so far.

Did you even visit the website? They are discussing hydrogen fuel
cell technology, not lead acid batteries driving an electric motor. I
believe you have missed the point they are trying to demonstrate.

It's one of the reasons, although "abandoning" is probably a bit
strong. Another is the potential ecological savings (although there's
still a big issue with disposing of batteries), and there's the added
benefit of more electricity available for whatever... washing machines.
Who knows.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
and *this* the reason people have been abandoning their ic engines in
favor
this great new technology?

Actually, they do. The weight is distributed so it's not as big a deal
as a hunk of iron sitting in an inconvenient spot.

"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...
Looks like another attempt by that electric motor company to sell some
motors.
They have been going to boat shows for years trying to get people to
toss
their
diesels. They pitch people on the fact their motor weighs less and
requires
less maintenence. What they don't tell people is how many batteries
they
need.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

have blue
 

I think you're an idiot.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ah, NO solar panels. I see. Just an alternator belted to the spinning
prop
shaft puttin out maybe 6 amps.

So, let's add it up. 6 amps at 12 volts for 24 hours = 1,728 watts, which
=
2.3 hp-hours.

But you need 20 hp for up to 20 hours, or 400 hp-hours, or about 300,000
watts,
which will take you approximately 173.611111 days sailing to produce.

You would also need battery capacity of 50,000 amps.

This is to motor not even 1 day.

I dunno, joony. you think it is doable?

Jaxass, looks like you can't read. I said, no solar panels. Not sure
where you got $40K either. You're proving yourself over and
over to be an idiot.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
let's see if I got this straight.

you guys are saying that between solar panals and a generator belted to
the
prop shaft you will have more than enough amps produced to drive a 20
hp
electric motor for up to several hours, and therefore the public is
going
to
stampede the vendor to pay upwards of $40K for a motor, panals, a few
thousand
pounds of batteries all to avoid paying $8k for a diesel engine, plus
fuel.

boy, you guys sure do have dreams, don't you.

"Jonathan Ganz"
scribbled thusly:

They're charged by the prop spinning while sailing.

This isn't the only one, but check this web site for more
info.

http://www.solomontechnologies.com/


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ah, and the "batts" are charge how?






Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

have blue
 

He misses a lot of things, including a brain.

"felton" wrote in message
...
On 03 Mar 2004 22:37:16 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

jonny, the wretchedly stupid public just hasn't caught to buying $10,000
worth
of solar panels to hang on one's boat, along with $5,000 worth of lead
acid
batteries to drive a umpty-ump thousand dollar electric motor to push a
sailboat one sunny day out of ten sunny days at 1/2 the boat speed of a
$6,000
diesel.

At least the wretched public hasn't been doing so so far.

Did you even visit the website? They are discussing hydrogen fuel
cell technology, not lead acid batteries driving an electric motor. I
believe you have missed the point they are trying to demonstrate.

It's one of the reasons, although "abandoning" is probably a bit
strong. Another is the potential ecological savings (although there's
still a big issue with disposing of batteries), and there's the added
benefit of more electricity available for whatever... washing machines.
Who knows.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
and *this* the reason people have been abandoning their ic engines in
favor
this great new technology?

Actually, they do. The weight is distributed so it's not as big a
deal
as a hunk of iron sitting in an inconvenient spot.

"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...
Looks like another attempt by that electric motor company to sell
some
motors.
They have been going to boat shows for years trying to get people
to
toss
their
diesels. They pitch people on the fact their motor weighs less and
requires
less maintenence. What they don't tell people is how many
batteries
they
need.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

have blue
 

JAXAshby wrote:
ah, NO solar panels. I see. Just an alternator belted to the spinning prop
shaft puttin out maybe 6 amps.

So, let's add it up. 6 amps at 12 volts for 24 hours = 1,728 watts, which =
2.3 hp-hours.

But you need 20 hp for up to 20 hours, or 400 hp-hours, or about 300,000 watts,


Humm.... Something you could do to make your argument more credible, stop using
units of energy and units of power on opposite sides of an equals sign.

Cheers
Marty

have blue
 

JAXAshby wrote:

and the storage batteries to hold the amps until you can break down water is
where? And how are they recharged?

It *IS* perpetual motion to suggest that breaking down water into hydrogen and
then "burning" the hydrogen to produce power AND amps to break down th hydrogen

If you want 400 hp-hours of energy output, you have to have at least 400
hp-hours energy input.


While I agree that the scheme is somewhat harebrained, and likely taken as
whole comes out on the negative side energy wise; why store the energy in
a chemical battery, why not use it to break the bonds in the H2O molecule
and store the gasses? I think the energy required by the pumps to accomplish
this would probably be sufficient to cause the whole wacky idea to come acropper.

Cheers
Marty

have blue
 

So why would you put a "belt driven" alternator on a shaft that already has an
electric motor that can regenerate? And why only 6 amps at 12 volts?

The system I saw can charge 22 Amps at 144 Volts. The net efficiency was such
that they could power something like 1 hour for every 4 sailing. The battery
bank was good for around 4 hours of powering, and a 10kW genset could run it
fulltime (actually only running part-time to charge the batteries) with power
to spare. This was a 47 foot catamaran.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ah, NO solar panels. I see. Just an alternator belted to the spinning prop
shaft puttin out maybe 6 amps.

So, let's add it up. 6 amps at 12 volts for 24 hours = 1,728 watts, which =
2.3 hp-hours.

But you need 20 hp for up to 20 hours, or 400 hp-hours, or about 300,000
watts,
which will take you approximately 173.611111 days sailing to produce.

You would also need battery capacity of 50,000 amps.

This is to motor not even 1 day.

I dunno, joony. you think it is doable?

Jaxass, looks like you can't read. I said, no solar panels. Not sure
where you got $40K either. You're proving yourself over and
over to be an idiot.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
let's see if I got this straight.

you guys are saying that between solar panals and a generator belted to
the
prop shaft you will have more than enough amps produced to drive a 20 hp
electric motor for up to several hours, and therefore the public is going
to
stampede the vendor to pay upwards of $40K for a motor, panals, a few
thousand
pounds of batteries all to avoid paying $8k for a diesel engine, plus
fuel.

boy, you guys sure do have dreams, don't you.

"Jonathan Ganz"
scribbled thusly:

They're charged by the prop spinning while sailing.

This isn't the only one, but check this web site for more
info.

http://www.solomontechnologies.com/


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ah, and the "batts" are charge how?






Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

have blue
 

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
let's see if I got this straight.

hehheh Good one, Jax!


you guys are saying that between solar panals and a generator belted to
the
prop shaft you will have more than enough amps produced to drive a 20 hp
electric motor for up to several hours, and therefore the public is going
to
stampede the vendor to pay upwards of $40K for a motor, panals, a few
thousand
pounds of batteries all to avoid paying $8k for a diesel engine, plus
fuel.


No, Jax.

They didn't say anything like that. Really!


Read it again..... slowly!

Regards


Donal
--

have blue
 

joony, joony,joony. I just took you at your word, and then ran the numbers
out. Is it my fault what those numbers came to be, or your fault for what you
said?

I think you're an idiot.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ah, NO solar panels. I see. Just an alternator belted to the spinning
prop
shaft puttin out maybe 6 amps.

So, let's add it up. 6 amps at 12 volts for 24 hours = 1,728 watts, which
=
2.3 hp-hours.

But you need 20 hp for up to 20 hours, or 400 hp-hours, or about 300,000
watts,
which will take you approximately 173.611111 days sailing to produce.

You would also need battery capacity of 50,000 amps.

This is to motor not even 1 day.

I dunno, joony. you think it is doable?

Jaxass, looks like you can't read. I said, no solar panels. Not sure
where you got $40K either. You're proving yourself over and
over to be an idiot.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
let's see if I got this straight.

you guys are saying that between solar panals and a generator belted to
the
prop shaft you will have more than enough amps produced to drive a 20
hp
electric motor for up to several hours, and therefore the public is
going
to
stampede the vendor to pay upwards of $40K for a motor, panals, a few
thousand
pounds of batteries all to avoid paying $8k for a diesel engine, plus
fuel.

boy, you guys sure do have dreams, don't you.

"Jonathan Ganz"
scribbled thusly:

They're charged by the prop spinning while sailing.

This isn't the only one, but check this web site for more
info.

http://www.solomontechnologies.com/


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ah, and the "batts" are charge how?






Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

have blue
 

jeff, about it. where does the power to generate hydrogen come from? How much
power is generated by "burning" the hydrogen to produce water? Is this more
energy or less energy than it takes to split water into hydrogen?

jeffies, remember what they taught you in those alleged classes you took on
your way to your alleged arts degree in physics? You know, power in = power
out.

So why would you put a "belt driven" alternator on a shaft that already has
an
electric motor that can regenerate? And why only 6 amps at 12 volts?

The system I saw can charge 22 Amps at 144 Volts. The net efficiency was
such
that they could power something like 1 hour for every 4 sailing. The battery
bank was good for around 4 hours of powering, and a 10kW genset could run it
fulltime (actually only running part-time to charge the batteries) with
power
to spare. This was a 47 foot catamaran.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ah, NO solar panels. I see. Just an alternator belted to the spinning
prop
shaft puttin out maybe 6 amps.

So, let's add it up. 6 amps at 12 volts for 24 hours = 1,728 watts, which
=
2.3 hp-hours.

But you need 20 hp for up to 20 hours, or 400 hp-hours, or about 300,000
watts,
which will take you approximately 173.611111 days sailing to produce.

You would also need battery capacity of 50,000 amps.

This is to motor not even 1 day.

I dunno, joony. you think it is doable?

Jaxass, looks like you can't read. I said, no solar panels. Not sure
where you got $40K either. You're proving yourself over and
over to be an idiot.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
let's see if I got this straight.

you guys are saying that between solar panals and a generator belted to
the
prop shaft you will have more than enough amps produced to drive a 20 hp
electric motor for up to several hours, and therefore the public is
going
to
stampede the vendor to pay upwards of $40K for a motor, panals, a few
thousand
pounds of batteries all to avoid paying $8k for a diesel engine, plus
fuel.

boy, you guys sure do have dreams, don't you.

"Jonathan Ganz"
scribbled thusly:

They're charged by the prop spinning while sailing.

This isn't the only one, but check this web site for more
info.

http://www.solomontechnologies.com/


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ah, and the "batts" are charge how?






Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

have blue
 

oh, you mean horsepower can not be compared to watts?

Gee, the European engine manufacturers do it all the time. somebody should
tell them you can't do that.

Humm.... Something you could do to make your argument more credible, stop
using
units of energy and units of power on opposite sides of an equals sign.

Cheers
Marty

have blue
 

storing gaseous hydrogen takes one ENORMOUS amount of space, while storing
liquid hydrogen takes some enormous equipment that takes enormous power to run.
someone once was trying to come up with some "honeycomb" material that store
gaseous hyrdrogen in high densities, but I haven't heard of them in a while.

While I agree that the scheme is somewhat harebrained, and likely taken as
whole comes out on the negative side energy wise; why store the energy in
a chemical battery, why not use it to break the bonds in the H2O molecule
and store the gasses? I think the energy required by the pumps to accomplish
this would probably be sufficient to cause the whole wacky idea to come
acropper.

Cheers
Marty

have blue
 

No. It's not your fault you're an idiot.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
joony, joony,joony. I just took you at your word, and then ran the
numbers
out. Is it my fault what those numbers came to be, or your fault for what
you
said?

I think you're an idiot.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ah, NO solar panels. I see. Just an alternator belted to the spinning
prop
shaft puttin out maybe 6 amps.

So, let's add it up. 6 amps at 12 volts for 24 hours = 1,728 watts,
which
=
2.3 hp-hours.

But you need 20 hp for up to 20 hours, or 400 hp-hours, or about
300,000
watts,
which will take you approximately 173.611111 days sailing to produce.

You would also need battery capacity of 50,000 amps.

This is to motor not even 1 day.

I dunno, joony. you think it is doable?

Jaxass, looks like you can't read. I said, no solar panels. Not sure
where you got $40K either. You're proving yourself over and
over to be an idiot.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
let's see if I got this straight.

you guys are saying that between solar panals and a generator belted
to
the
prop shaft you will have more than enough amps produced to drive a
20
hp
electric motor for up to several hours, and therefore the public is
going
to
stampede the vendor to pay upwards of $40K for a motor, panals, a
few
thousand
pounds of batteries all to avoid paying $8k for a diesel engine,
plus
fuel.

boy, you guys sure do have dreams, don't you.

"Jonathan Ganz"
scribbled thusly:

They're charged by the prop spinning while sailing.

This isn't the only one, but check this web site for more
info.

http://www.solomontechnologies.com/


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ah, and the "batts" are charge how?






Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

have blue
 

I wasn't commenting on the hydrogen fuel cell aspect - frankly the concept of
using an RO system to make pure water to make hydrogen for a fuel cell seems
more like buzzword loading than viable technology.

However, using electric motors that can regenerate through the propeller is
viable and is being done today. If I were building a new boat, or repowering,
I'd take a long look at the "Electric Wheel" approach.

You talk about "power in = power out", but doesn't that mean that you should
generate as much with the wind pushing the boat at 8 knots as you use when the
motor is pushing it? That would mean that you could make enough to power the
boat half the time. Obviously, there are efficiency issues, but with batteries
able to store 4 hours or more of run time it starts making sense. Add in a
small genset that can run very efficiently at a fixed load and you have a very
viable system.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeff, about it. where does the power to generate hydrogen come from? How
much
power is generated by "burning" the hydrogen to produce water? Is this more
energy or less energy than it takes to split water into hydrogen?

jeffies, remember what they taught you in those alleged classes you took on
your way to your alleged arts degree in physics? You know, power in = power
out.

So why would you put a "belt driven" alternator on a shaft that already has
an
electric motor that can regenerate? And why only 6 amps at 12 volts?

The system I saw can charge 22 Amps at 144 Volts. The net efficiency was
such
that they could power something like 1 hour for every 4 sailing. The battery
bank was good for around 4 hours of powering, and a 10kW genset could run it
fulltime (actually only running part-time to charge the batteries) with
power
to spare. This was a 47 foot catamaran.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ah, NO solar panels. I see. Just an alternator belted to the spinning
prop
shaft puttin out maybe 6 amps.

So, let's add it up. 6 amps at 12 volts for 24 hours = 1,728 watts, which
=
2.3 hp-hours.

But you need 20 hp for up to 20 hours, or 400 hp-hours, or about 300,000
watts,
which will take you approximately 173.611111 days sailing to produce.

You would also need battery capacity of 50,000 amps.

This is to motor not even 1 day.

I dunno, joony. you think it is doable?

Jaxass, looks like you can't read. I said, no solar panels. Not sure
where you got $40K either. You're proving yourself over and
over to be an idiot.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
let's see if I got this straight.

you guys are saying that between solar panals and a generator belted to
the
prop shaft you will have more than enough amps produced to drive a 20 hp
electric motor for up to several hours, and therefore the public is
going
to
stampede the vendor to pay upwards of $40K for a motor, panals, a few
thousand
pounds of batteries all to avoid paying $8k for a diesel engine, plus
fuel.

boy, you guys sure do have dreams, don't you.

"Jonathan Ganz"
scribbled thusly:

They're charged by the prop spinning while sailing.

This isn't the only one, but check this web site for more
info.

http://www.solomontechnologies.com/


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ah, and the "batts" are charge how?






Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

have blue
 

Do you think a 'special' prop would be needed? I've seen where a belt is
driven off the prop shaft to an alt. for batt. charging. Not sure if that's
good for the trans.. But the elect. motor/gen. sounds ideal if the costs
could be competitive.

Scotty


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
I wasn't commenting on the hydrogen fuel cell aspect - frankly the concept
of
using an RO system to make pure water to make hydrogen for a fuel cell
seems
more like buzzword loading than viable technology.

However, using electric motors that can regenerate through the propeller
is
viable and is being done today. If I were building a new boat, or
repowering,
I'd take a long look at the "Electric Wheel" approach.

You talk about "power in = power out", but doesn't that mean that you
should
generate as much with the wind pushing the boat at 8 knots as you use when
the
motor is pushing it? That would mean that you could make enough to power
the
boat half the time. Obviously, there are efficiency issues, but with
batteries
able to store 4 hours or more of run time it starts making sense. Add in
a
small genset that can run very efficiently at a fixed load and you have a
very
viable system.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeff, about it. where does the power to generate hydrogen come from?
How
much
power is generated by "burning" the hydrogen to produce water? Is this
more
energy or less energy than it takes to split water into hydrogen?

jeffies, remember what they taught you in those alleged classes you took
on
your way to your alleged arts degree in physics? You know, power in =
power
out.

So why would you put a "belt driven" alternator on a shaft that already
has
an
electric motor that can regenerate? And why only 6 amps at 12 volts?

The system I saw can charge 22 Amps at 144 Volts. The net efficiency
was
such
that they could power something like 1 hour for every 4 sailing. The
battery
bank was good for around 4 hours of powering, and a 10kW genset could
run it
fulltime (actually only running part-time to charge the batteries)
with
power
to spare. This was a 47 foot catamaran.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ah, NO solar panels. I see. Just an alternator belted to the
spinning
prop
shaft puttin out maybe 6 amps.

So, let's add it up. 6 amps at 12 volts for 24 hours = 1,728 watts,
which
=
2.3 hp-hours.

But you need 20 hp for up to 20 hours, or 400 hp-hours, or about
300,000
watts,
which will take you approximately 173.611111 days sailing to produce.

You would also need battery capacity of 50,000 amps.

This is to motor not even 1 day.

I dunno, joony. you think it is doable?

Jaxass, looks like you can't read. I said, no solar panels. Not sure
where you got $40K either. You're proving yourself over and
over to be an idiot.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
let's see if I got this straight.

you guys are saying that between solar panals and a generator
belted to
the
prop shaft you will have more than enough amps produced to drive a
20 hp
electric motor for up to several hours, and therefore the public
is
going
to
stampede the vendor to pay upwards of $40K for a motor, panals, a
few
thousand
pounds of batteries all to avoid paying $8k for a diesel engine,
plus
fuel.

boy, you guys sure do have dreams, don't you.

"Jonathan Ganz"
scribbled thusly:

They're charged by the prop spinning while sailing.

This isn't the only one, but check this web site for more
info.

http://www.solomontechnologies.com/


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ah, and the "batts" are charge how?






Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

have blue
 

Well, a folding prop won't do much good! I think most electric conversions use
a large (like a 20 inch) prop. The new systems are set up so that you can set
the "throttle" to provide some engine power when the wind dies, and then
regenerate when it picks up. The only way to tell which mode you're in is to
look at the charge meter.

Costs are going to get competitive over time, especially when you figure that
maintenance costs are much lower with electric power. Even when you include a
small genset for the "diesel-electric" approach there's a big win in the long
term "total cost of investment."



"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Do you think a 'special' prop would be needed? I've seen where a belt is
driven off the prop shaft to an alt. for batt. charging. Not sure if that's
good for the trans.. But the elect. motor/gen. sounds ideal if the costs
could be competitive.

Scotty


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
I wasn't commenting on the hydrogen fuel cell aspect - frankly the concept
of
using an RO system to make pure water to make hydrogen for a fuel cell
seems
more like buzzword loading than viable technology.

However, using electric motors that can regenerate through the propeller
is
viable and is being done today. If I were building a new boat, or
repowering,
I'd take a long look at the "Electric Wheel" approach.

You talk about "power in = power out", but doesn't that mean that you
should
generate as much with the wind pushing the boat at 8 knots as you use when
the
motor is pushing it? That would mean that you could make enough to power
the
boat half the time. Obviously, there are efficiency issues, but with
batteries
able to store 4 hours or more of run time it starts making sense. Add in
a
small genset that can run very efficiently at a fixed load and you have a
very
viable system.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeff, about it. where does the power to generate hydrogen come from?
How
much
power is generated by "burning" the hydrogen to produce water? Is this
more
energy or less energy than it takes to split water into hydrogen?

jeffies, remember what they taught you in those alleged classes you took
on
your way to your alleged arts degree in physics? You know, power in =
power
out.

So why would you put a "belt driven" alternator on a shaft that already
has
an
electric motor that can regenerate? And why only 6 amps at 12 volts?

The system I saw can charge 22 Amps at 144 Volts. The net efficiency
was
such
that they could power something like 1 hour for every 4 sailing. The
battery
bank was good for around 4 hours of powering, and a 10kW genset could
run it
fulltime (actually only running part-time to charge the batteries)
with
power
to spare. This was a 47 foot catamaran.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ah, NO solar panels. I see. Just an alternator belted to the
spinning
prop
shaft puttin out maybe 6 amps.

So, let's add it up. 6 amps at 12 volts for 24 hours = 1,728 watts,
which
=
2.3 hp-hours.

But you need 20 hp for up to 20 hours, or 400 hp-hours, or about
300,000
watts,
which will take you approximately 173.611111 days sailing to produce.

You would also need battery capacity of 50,000 amps.

This is to motor not even 1 day.

I dunno, joony. you think it is doable?

Jaxass, looks like you can't read. I said, no solar panels. Not sure
where you got $40K either. You're proving yourself over and
over to be an idiot.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
let's see if I got this straight.

you guys are saying that between solar panals and a generator
belted to
the
prop shaft you will have more than enough amps produced to drive a
20 hp
electric motor for up to several hours, and therefore the public
is
going
to
stampede the vendor to pay upwards of $40K for a motor, panals, a
few
thousand
pounds of batteries all to avoid paying $8k for a diesel engine,
plus
fuel.

boy, you guys sure do have dreams, don't you.

"Jonathan Ganz"
scribbled thusly:

They're charged by the prop spinning while sailing.

This isn't the only one, but check this web site for more
info.

http://www.solomontechnologies.com/


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ah, and the "batts" are charge how?






Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

have blue
 

frankly the concept of
using an RO system to make pure water to make hydrogen for a fuel cell seems
more like buzzword loading than viable technology.

that's because it is.

However, using electric motors that can regenerate through the propeller is
viable and is being done today.

no, it isn't.

You talk about "power in = power out", but doesn't that mean that you should
generate as much with the wind pushing the boat at 8 knots as you use when
the
motor is pushing it?

it certainly does. otherwise, it is supposed to generate more energy than it
consumes.

Add in a
small genset that can run very efficiently

yeah, sure. "very efficiently", as opposed to what they do today and are
likely to do for the next several centuries.

a fixed load and you have a very
viable system.

ah, no. you *must* build a WORKING model to take that to the US Patent Office,
for they require that in the case of perpetual motion machines.

have blue
 

But the elect. motor/gen. sounds ideal if the costs
could be competitive.

AND if you are willing to sail for 173 days straight just to motor less than a
day. (see prior post).

have blue
 

Costs are going to get competitive over time

sure they are. in the 25th century, or by the 29th century for sure, if not by
the year 4,000.

Even when you include a
small genset for the "diesel-electric" approach there's a big win in the long
term "total cost of investment."

*if* total cost of investment means total cost of investment the breakeven
point may never be reached.

but keep hoping and praying.

have blue
 

They're getting competitive quickly. Another few years and
it'll make sense for most boats to go this way. Fossil fuels
are a stupid solution.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Costs are going to get competitive over time

sure they are. in the 25th century, or by the 29th century for sure, if
not by
the year 4,000.

Even when you include a
small genset for the "diesel-electric" approach there's a big win in the
long
term "total cost of investment."

*if* total cost of investment means total cost of investment the breakeven
point may never be reached.

but keep hoping and praying.

have blue
 

Go away. You're stupid and boring.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
But the elect. motor/gen. sounds ideal if the costs
could be competitive.

AND if you are willing to sail for 173 days straight just to motor less
than a
day. (see prior post).

have blue
 

JAXAshby wrote:

storing gaseous hydrogen takes one ENORMOUS amount of space, while storing
liquid hydrogen takes some enormous equipment that takes enormous power to run.
someone once was trying to come up with some "honeycomb" material that store
gaseous hyrdrogen in high densities, but I haven't heard of them in a while.



Excactly, as for 'honeycomb', I believe you're thinking of metal hydride storage,
as is used for acetylene bottles, I think it's a well proven technology.

Cheers
Marty