Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

I had a brand new Travellall as a Company Vehicle in 1970. After
3mos., there was a hole in the left wheel well open to the interior
of the car. I had to wear a slicker with the hood up when it rained
or I got a wet stripe down my back. But, I will give it its props. 4wd
with a compound low, there wasn't a foundation excavation site I
couldn't get in or out.

On 04 Mar 2004 16:43:19 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:

The body didn't just rust, it disolved. or maybe it was electrolysis.


Exactly. They were rusting when brand new!

RB

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

But, I will give it its props. 4wd
with a compound low, there wasn't a foundation excavation site I
couldn't get in or out.

Yup, when they worked they WORKED. Still, one of the few vehicles where the
engine mounts could rot away lickety split. Just like Yugo, they deserved to go
under. Then again Jeep continues to sell lemons on a regular basis. 81K on my
Subaru Outback Limited and not a single repair or problem. Still runs like it
did 1st day. My friend's Legacy has 190K on it and no problems. Wish I could
say the same for my father's Lincoln, PT Cruiser and Chrysler minivan...all
newer cars and all with problems.

RB

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

DSK wrote:
Frank Maier wrote:
But to address the issue, unlike Jax's imaginary friend who sails
upwind under bare poles and motors for months on a gallon of gas, I
have crossed the Atlantic on a Folkboat clone. I recommend against it.

What would you say were the main plusses and minusses of the boat? What
rout did you take and what season was it? Sounds like a cool trip, and
obviously you survived ;)

Hi, Doug,

Our trip originated in England. We started right after New Year's from
the Canaries to Barbados. Two 21-year-old college graduates venturing
out onto the deep blue. Oh yeah! Look out, world! Twentieth century
argonauts loose on the Panthalassa. Our previous experiences included
racing and cruising from New Orleans to Florida, the Yucatan, the
Bahamas, and parts of the Caribbean. My friend had been living in
England for the past four years while going to school, getting in some
local daysailing and racing. He bought the boat the summer before our
trip (summer of '68).

In retrospect, that year I wish I'd stayed in New Orleans and crewed
on one of the boats Charlie and Ginny sailed from New Orleans to
Tortola to start a charter company they decided to call "The
Moorings." Wonder how different my life would've been?

Folkboat:

Pluses: It crossed the Atlantic without sinking; but then, so did Thor
Heyerdahl on a boat built of marsh reeds tied into bundles. The Ra, or
at least Ra 2, may have leaked less than the Folkboat. And I think
they were about as fast.

Minuses: Everything else.

Oh, you wanted more detail? Ok, some commentary:

I've never been to jail. Well, ok, let me be more precise (honest).
I've never spent more than one night in a holding cell; but I'm
certain that a regular two-person cell would be roomier and more
comfortable than a Folkboat. What's the old quote? It's either Boswell
himself or him quoting Johnson saying something like, "Anyone smart
enough to get into jail will do so rather than go sailing because
sailing is like being in jail with a chance of drowning. And the
company is better." Anyway, that's the gist. And that's a pretty good
description of an ocean passage on a Folkboat. A jail cell in the
clutches of a maniacal giant paint-can shaker.

My experiences with that boat, and others, helped me decide that I was
a "modern" sailor. The 60's were a time of great change in the sailing
world as well as in the society around us. For me, the Cal 40, a
"plastic" fin-keel sloop, vs. "traditional" designs was equivalent to
Galileo telling the Papacy that the Earth goes around the sun, not
vice versa, and y'all just better damned well get used to it. It was
Darwin looking objectively at the reality around him and accepting
that species evolve; they were not created directly by God as-is and
intended by Him to remain as-is forever. Of course, there are still
religious traditionalists, like sailing traditionalists, IMHO, who
ignore reality in favor of their chosen philosophy. De gustibus... , I
guess.

So, you're perfectly welcome to go to sea in a Folkboat, or a Westsail
32, or any other "retro design" boat with a D/L ratio over 350. God
bless you. Have fun. I'd be happy to buy you a rum punch if we meet in
some island bar. We can savor our drinks and while away the evening
arguing tracking, acceleration, comfort-motion, politics, religion,
.... whatever. grin

But me, since the early 70's, I've been essentially an
anti-traditionalist. Mind you, I can walk the docks and admire the
aesthetics of 'em; but when it comes time to actually go sailing,
gimme a fiberglass fin-keel sloop. And please keep the D/L ratio under
250!

YMMV,

Frank

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

Then why aren't you sailing? I thought you retired.
"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
had a business issue to handle, which it seems is now done with as of last
week. Not sure if I will continue this spring or wait until fall to
continue
south. lots of options.



Why would a retired person have issues to deal with?


Regards


Donal
--

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

"Frank Maier" wrote in message
om...
DSK wrote:
Frank Maier wrote:
But to address the issue, unlike Jax's imaginary friend who sails
upwind under bare poles and motors for months on a gallon of gas, I
have crossed the Atlantic on a Folkboat clone. I recommend against it.

What would you say were the main plusses and minusses of the boat? What
rout did you take and what season was it? Sounds like a cool trip, and
obviously you survived ;)

Hi, Doug,

Our trip originated in England. We started right after New Year's from
the Canaries to Barbados.

Did you start from England, *or* from the Canaries?

Regards


Donal
--

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

But to address the issue, unlike Jax's imaginary friend who sails
upwind under bare poles

that friend has owned for years a Folkboat derivative.

Best imaginary Cruisers
 

But to address the issue, unlike Jax's imaginary friend who sails
upwind under bare poles


JAXAshby wrote:
that friend has owned for years a Folkboat derivative.

What kind of boat, Jax?

DSK

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

In article ,
wrote:

On 04 Mar 2004 22:10:52 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:

But, I will give it its props. 4wd
with a compound low, there wasn't a foundation excavation site I
couldn't get in or out.

Yup, when they worked they WORKED. Still, one of the few vehicles where the
engine mounts could rot away lickety split. Just like Yugo, they deserved to
go
under. Then again Jeep continues to sell lemons on a regular basis. 81K on my
Subaru Outback Limited and not a single repair or problem. Still runs like it
did 1st day. My friend's Legacy has 190K on it and no problems.

I've got 210K on my Subaru Liberty 4WD sedan. Replacement clutch at
160K, CV joints at 190K. That's it. Generally, a Subaru motor is good
for 350K if looked after & serviced properly. My next one, if I decide
to trade up, will be a 2.5litre Forester.

PDW

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

In article ,
wrote:

On 04 Mar 2004 22:10:52 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:

But, I will give it its props. 4wd
with a compound low, there wasn't a foundation excavation site I
couldn't get in or out.

Yup, when they worked they WORKED. Still, one of the few vehicles where the
engine mounts could rot away lickety split. Just like Yugo, they deserved to
go
under. Then again Jeep continues to sell lemons on a regular basis. 81K on my
Subaru Outback Limited and not a single repair or problem. Still runs like it
did 1st day. My friend's Legacy has 190K on it and no problems. Wish I could
say the same for my father's Lincoln, PT Cruiser and Chrysler minivan...all
newer cars and all with problems.

RB


And all this time you thought WE won WWII!

Don't forget the Japanese use that inferior metric system. Good thing
for American industry that they work under such a severe handicap,
isn't it?

PDW

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

Frank Maier wrote:
Folkboat:

Pluses: It crossed the Atlantic without sinking; but then, so did Thor
Heyerdahl on a boat built of marsh reeds tied into bundles. The Ra, or
at least Ra 2, may have leaked less than the Folkboat. And I think
they were about as fast.

Minuses: Everything else.

Surely you jest. Wasn't your path lined with admirers exclaiming over
what a suitable & seaworthy vessel you'd chosen?


Oh, you wanted more detail? Ok, some commentary:

I've never been to jail. Well, ok, let me be more precise (honest).
I've never spent more than one night in a holding cell; but I'm
certain that a regular two-person cell would be roomier and more
comfortable than a Folkboat. What's the old quote? It's either Boswell
himself or him quoting Johnson saying something like, "Anyone smart
enough to get into jail will do so rather than go sailing because
sailing is like being in jail with a chance of drowning. And the
company is better." Anyway, that's the gist. And that's a pretty good
description of an ocean passage on a Folkboat. A jail cell in the
clutches of a maniacal giant paint-can shaker.

A jail cell the size of a phone booth laid on it's side.

My imprssion of the Folkboat and it's many near-sisters is that they
actually are pretty good sailing boats, but have some quirks. For one, I
bet your boat leaked so much because 1- either somebody had tried to
caulk the laps similar to conventional planking and/or 2- the deck
wasn't properly canvassed & saturated, so all the spray went straight
below. Plus the freeboard is low, so you spend a lot of time with the
lee rail under.




My experiences with that boat, and others, helped me decide that I was
a "modern" sailor. The 60's were a time of great change in the sailing
world as well as in the society around us. For me, the Cal 40, a
"plastic" fin-keel sloop, vs. "traditional" designs was equivalent to
Galileo telling the Papacy that the Earth goes around the sun, not
vice versa, and y'all just better damned well get used to it. It was
Darwin looking objectively at the reality around him and accepting
that species evolve; they were not created directly by God as-is and
intended by Him to remain as-is forever. Of course, there are still
religious traditionalists, like sailing traditionalists, IMHO, who
ignore reality in favor of their chosen philosophy. De gustibus... , I
guess.

You have to admire that kind of devotion, even you have no desire to
emulate it.

Some of those old time boats were high art. They take a lot of very
specialized care, which most people don't have the time for even if they
had the patience (if they had the patience, the skills would follow).
One blessing is that the proper materials to take care of the survivors
are easier to find now than they were 35 years ago.

The Folkboat(s) I've sailed have all been fiberglass and day raced.
They're fun, but some sailors coming into them are frustrated because
they reward a very different type of handling than a fin keeler.



So, you're perfectly welcome to go to sea in a Folkboat, or a Westsail
32, or any other "retro design" boat with a D/L ratio over 350.

If I had to do something of the sort, I'd probably make it an S-boat.

... God
bless you. Have fun. I'd be happy to buy you a rum punch if we meet in
some island bar. We can savor our drinks and while away the evening
arguing tracking, acceleration, comfort-motion, politics, religion,
... whatever. grin

But me, since the early 70's, I've been essentially an
anti-traditionalist. Mind you, I can walk the docks and admire the
aesthetics of 'em; but when it comes time to actually go sailing,
gimme a fiberglass fin-keel sloop. And please keep the D/L ratio under
250!

Agreed... although an S-boat would be tempting as a feat of dedication.
My grandfather's soul would be pleased. The problem is that I've been
spoiled too long... had a series of boats that were less trouble, easier
to handle and less likely to bite if mis-handled, far less maintenance,
drier inside (and having a dry bunk can be worth a LOT), faster, etc
etc. My wife and I looked for a couple of years for a "big & serious"
cruising sailboat that had our desired features... speed, comfort,
seaworthy enough (but not making big sacrifices for it), good looks,
plus shallow draft... but we eventually got a tugboat instead and now we
just sail for fun.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Best imaginary Cruisers
 

Contessa 26.

But to address the issue, unlike Jax's imaginary friend who sails
upwind under bare poles


JAXAshby wrote:
that friend has owned for years a Folkboat derivative.

What kind of boat, Jax?

DSK

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

I've got 455k on my Pete, all original drive train and engine.

Scotty

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..

I've got 210K on my Subaru Liberty 4WD sedan. Replacement clutch at
160K, CV joints at 190K. That's it. Generally, a Subaru motor is good
for 350K if looked after & serviced properly. My next one, if I decide
to trade up, will be a 2.5litre Forester.

PDW

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

"Donal" asked:
"Frank Maier" wrote:
....snip...
Our trip originated in England. We started right after New Year's from
the Canaries to Barbados.

Did you start from England, *or* from the Canaries?

Well, I flew to England and got on the boat there. From there, we
sailed down to the Canaries. The crossing (specifically) was from the
Canaries.

Does that answer what you were asking? I'm not really sure I
understand what information you were looking for.

Frank

Best imaginary Cruisers
 

Jax answered: Contessa 26.

Next he'll say his friend was Tanea Aebi.

--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

Scotty, bragging about his sex life:=20
I've got 455k on my Peter...


--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

I've got 210K on my Subaru Liberty 4WD sedan. Replacement clutch at
160K, CV joints at 190K. That's it. Generally, a Subaru motor is good
for 350K if looked after & serviced properly. My next one, if I decide
to trade up, will be a 2.5litre Forester.

We were about to buy the WRX STI, but with a baby on the way I'll wait a bit
longer.

RB

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

JAXAshby wrote:

had a business issue to handle, which it seems is now done with as of last
week. Not sure if I will continue this spring or wait until fall to continue
south. lots of options.

That still doesn't explain why you don't know the diffence between being able to
cruise the Chesapeake one weekend and the Georgia sounds the next, while working
full time.

DSK

Best imaginary Cruisers
 

Jax answered: Contessa 26.


katysails wrote:
Next he'll say his friend was Tanea Aebi.

Naw, it was Morgan Fairchild, while she was working on a sailing movie.

DSK

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

Doug,

Or that damn Gulf Stream Eddy that only seems to "Attack the Jax!"

OT

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

I haven't been working at all, and my boat is not in Georgia.

That still doesn't explain why you don't know the diffence between being able
to
cruise the Chesapeake one weekend and the Georgia sounds the next, while
working
full time.

DSK

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

Scott,

He also forgot the San Juan 24 & 28, The Ranger from Kent, Erwin 28,
Cascade 27 &29, Ventue 24, Mac 26

His mind only includes discarded Racer/cruises

OT

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

Mac 26

a Mac 26 is not on anyone's list of "Best Small Cruisers".

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

KATY! I'm shocked!


"katysails" wrote in message
...
Scotty, bragging about his sex life:
I've got 455k on my Peter...


--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

JAXAshby wrote:

a Mac 26 is not on anyone's list of "Best Small Cruisers".

Well then, maybe you can answer Scotty's question since Boobsie has
run away & hid (that's how he WINS).

What other 26' sailboat, regularly seen offered on the market for $10
or less, is as fast, and has as much cabin space & stowage... and
leave off the issue of how readily trailerable it is.

DSK

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

What other 26' sailboat, regularly seen offered on the market for $10
or less, is as fast, and has as much cabin space & stowage... and
leave off the issue of how readily trailerable it is.


Why the lie, Doug? I did answer Scotty's question by pointing out that the
Swiss Army knife of boats is still junk.

RB

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

I am familiar with the Folkboat, the Albin Vega and the Kigns Cruiser.

The Folkboats are great boats for what they are. They are not fast by
modern standards, but they sail very well. They are very seaworthy if
you consider the hull, but they don't have a selfbailing cockpit and
the bottom of companionway is almost level with the deep
cockpitfloor,. This makes the relation between the cockpit and the
cabin very good. The cabin is by modern standards rather small. For
costal cruising I think it is a nice boat if you can live with the
limitid acomodation. A nice boat for a 2 person 2 week cruise if the
sailors are youger than 50.
I like the boat.
Some versions have a selfbailing cockpit and a modified companionway
entrance. These modifications makes it a "go everywere boat" but it
doesent change the acomodation, and the freebord is a bit low for
oceansailing I think.

The IF (International Folkboat) is a GRP carvel folkboat with a
selfbailing cockpit. It has a "romier but more cramped" interior and a
aluminum mast with a larger foretriancle and a spinacer.

I also think that the vega is rather ugly, but for a cheap
masproduction boat of its's age it is actualy a fairly nice boat. I
does not have many vices, and if your looking for a cheap boat that
combines a certain practicallity with fairly predictable sailing
carecteristics It might be a good choise.

The Kings Cruiser 29 has more room than the former, but are small
compared to modern 29' cruisingboats. It could probably be sailed
almost anywere, but it is not a fast boat, just slightly faster or
than the Folkboat. I think they are fairly well build. A good
valur/price ratio I think, even if you probably could not get one over
here for 10,000 $. If you can get one for 10.000, and it is in decent
shape I think it would be a bargain (though i'm not very familiar with
US-prices).


"DSK" skrev i en meddelelse
...
Bobsprit wrote:

My list...while avoiding very, very old boats....

Bristol 27

Shucks, what about a Bristol 30? Or a Tartan 27?


Catalina 27

Malarkey. Not on anybody's list of "best" unless you gotta go with a
crowd. They are widely available and better than some.


Cape Dory 25 (70s model)
C&C 25 (70s)

Why not a newer 27?


Pearson 25

Too small. The Cape Dory 25 is barely a weekender. And rather than
avoiding "very very old" what you want to avoid is "poorly
maintained"
boats. It would be better to have a properly kept 35 year old boat
than a beat-up and neglected 5 year old one. Of course, that assume
knowledge about such things...

Here's a nice little heavy displacement English design
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/0/8/65557108.htm

A Seafarer... smaller sistership to one a friend of ours has
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/2/0/66440920.htm

To call this boat 31' is a bit deceptive, IIRC about 5' of that is
the
clipper bow. But they are really cool boats and capable small
cruisers.
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/1/8/62482218.htm

Islander 30... a Bob Perry design, sails well and properly built
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/7/6/33415976.htm

My family had a protoype of one of these... now *this* is a great
boat... actually I'm bummed to see one pop up at this price...
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/8/2/45636682.htm

Here's a boat I don't like all that much myself, but others have
raved
about

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...il.jsp?boat_id
=1189436

I was a little surprised to see a Sabre 28 pop up on the listings in
this price range. Also a Scampi 30 which is really a racing boat but
is certainly capable of being cruised.

Other boats that may pop up are the Morgan 30 (the CCA model, not
the
OI) or for that matter, the Morgan 27 which I mentioned just the
other
day. There are also Tanzers, Ericsons, Hughes, Rhodes, Paceship,
Dufour.... Any of these is likely to be better built and better
performing than a Catalina, Pearson, Cal, Columbia, or Hunter of
similar age & condition. IMHO the mass-produced boat are average,
not
built for serious sailing (except for racing as one-designs), and
while many of them are nice boats, they are not "great."

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

Scotty exclaimed: KATY! I'm shocked!

Hey, I learned to cut and paste from the master....

--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

Don't you think that the discomfort has more to do with the size of
the boat than the design?
Or was it leaking as well, even if it wasn't it must have been wet?
Was it an old-fashioned wood open cockpit folkboat?

Peter S/Y Anicula


tho
"Frank Maier" skrev i en meddelelse
om...
DSK wrote...
JAXAshby wrote:
...snip...
FWIW dougie, a couple of years ago a 75 year old man crossed the
North Atlantic
east to west in a Folkboat. Know anyone at all -- let alone one
75 years --
who has crossed the NA in a Hunter 19 in either direction?

Crossing oceans is not the only way to evaluate a cruising boat.
When was the last
time a Folkboat... or your boat... spent a 3 day weekend cruising
comfortably in
pleasant sailing waters 275 miles away from it's home slip? Or a
weeks vacation
over 600 miles away?
...snip...
Wait, look at me trying to talk sense to Jax. Phooey.

Doug,

This last point is, of course, your essential error. grin

But to address the issue, unlike Jax's imaginary friend who sails
upwind under bare poles and motors for months on a gallon of gas, I
have crossed the Atlantic on a Folkboat clone. I recommend against
it.

Frank

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

Aw shucks blush


"katysails" wrote in message
...
Scotty exclaimed: KATY! I'm shocked!

Hey, I learned to cut and paste from the master....

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

Peter S/Y Anicula wrote:
Don't you think that the discomfort has more to do with the size of
the boat than the design?

Depends on how much bigger.
Not only are bigger boats roomier with better stowage and more
comfortable access & cabin layouts, but their very size makes them more
seaworthy and less bouncy underway (all else being equal, of course).


Or was it leaking as well, even if it wasn't it must have been wet?
Was it an old-fashioned wood open cockpit folkboat?

I'm thinking that in 1968 it would have to have been wood.

The Kings Cruiser was a lovely boat. It was cramped for a 29 footer,
especially by modern standards. For example, the Hunter 290 we recently
sailed had an aft cabin where the Kings Cruiser didn't even have a
place. And even with the doghouse, they don't have standing headroom for
an average size adult... but unlike the Folkboat, you can at least
stretch out enough to get your pants on.

We raced the KC29 in a PHRF fleet for a couple of seasons... compared to
the average mass-produced racer cruiser of that era, it was't slow
except hard on the wind... and then if it was choppy, that evened things
up. one of the benefits of the old fashioned narrow hull is that it goes
thru steep waves much easier. Of course it would not take off and fly
off the wind like a modern boat will. But of the short-keeled
attached-rudder heavy disp boats I've sailed, it was one of the most
mannerly (or is it my memory looking back with rose-colered glasses?).
It was a great boat... but I'm not really tempted to go that way again,
even for nostalgia.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

My 97 wrangler just turned 210,000 in the hands of my son. Not one problem,
except changing the headlight switch and converter at about 170,000.
"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
But, I will give it its props. 4wd
with a compound low, there wasn't a foundation excavation site I
couldn't get in or out.

Yup, when they worked they WORKED. Still, one of the few vehicles where
the
engine mounts could rot away lickety split. Just like Yugo, they deserved
to go
under. Then again Jeep continues to sell lemons on a regular basis. 81K on
my
Subaru Outback Limited and not a single repair or problem. Still runs like
it
did 1st day. My friend's Legacy has 190K on it and no problems. Wish I
could
say the same for my father's Lincoln, PT Cruiser and Chrysler
minivan...all
newer cars and all with problems.

RB

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

"Peter S/Y Anicula" wrote:
Don't you think that the discomfort has more to do with the size of
the boat than the design?
Or was it leaking as well, even if it wasn't it must have been wet?
Was it an old-fashioned wood open cockpit folkboat?

Yep. It was the late 60s and, per your description, the boat was "an
old-fashioned wood open cockpit" version. As for discomfort being
related solely to the size, let's break "discomfort" down into several
components.

Belowdecks: A modern 'glass boat of similar length is immensely
roomier than any wood boat of that age and style. Doug has made this
comparison and comment frequently. There just ain't a lot of room
there. That's one of the discomforts of this (type of) boat.

Abovedecks: IMHO, this is a wet boat to sail, at its best. And this
particular boat was a pretty significant leaker as well. Well, I guess
that kinda feeds back into "belowdecks" complaints; but it wasn't just
the hull which was leaky, it was the deck, fittings, companionway,
everything. It was just a *wet* boat.

Sailing qualities: Doug mentioned that this type of design, and the
Folkboat in particular, tends to heel more than more-modern designs.
I'd say that she *likes* to bury the rail. I guess that's not
necessarily A Bad Thing (TM) in and of itself; but it sure adds to the
wetness and discomfort factors. I've resisted saying that I don't like
the performance characteristics of the Folkboat; but to be bluntly
honest, I don't like the performance characteristics of the Folkboat.
Subjective assessment, but there it is.

As I said, I've become distinctly anti-traditional, more so over time;
so my opinions are biased strongly in that direction. I certainly do
admire anyone who has the time, dedication, and money to maintain a
beautiful old wooden boat. But that ain't me anymore. And I sure don't
wanna go sailing on one for more than a day's fantasy outing. BTDT. I
paid my dues and moved on into the late twentieth century. And now
we're in the twenty-first century. We're no longer limited to wood,
hemp, canvas, and the like. We have fiberglass, aluminium, kevlar,
carbonfiber, and who knows what else.

Like I said, I'd love to meet you on a tropical island and argue boats
over a couple of umbrella drinks. But to get there, I'll be the guy
from the fiberglass fin-keel sloop. If we go out shopping for boats
together, I promise I won't bid against you for ownership of any Colin
Archer designs, or Valiants, or Hans Christians, or Island Packets,
etc. They're all yours. Enjoy.

Frank

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

DSK wrote:
....snip...
My imprssion of the Folkboat and it's many near-sisters is that they
actually are pretty good sailing boats, but have some quirks.
....snip...
Some of those old time boats were high art. They take a lot of very
specialized care, which most people don't have the time for even if they
had the patience (if they had the patience, the skills would follow).
One blessing is that the proper materials to take care of the survivors
are easier to find now than they were 35 years ago.
....snip...
If I had to do something of the sort, I'd probably make it an S-boat.
....snip...
My grandfather's soul would be pleased. The problem is that I've been
spoiled too long... had a series of boats that were less trouble, easier
to handle and less likely to bite if mis-handled, far less maintenance,
drier inside (and having a dry bunk can be worth a LOT), faster, etc
etc. My wife and I looked for a couple of years for a "big & serious"
cruising sailboat that had our desired features... speed, comfort,
seaworthy enough (but not making big sacrifices for it), good looks,
plus shallow draft... but we eventually got a tugboat instead and now we
just sail for fun.


Hi, Doug,

I'm just gonna make some general comments here to avoid having this
thread get too long and complicated to read by interspersing 'em. I
made a bunch of comments about the Folkboat specifically in my
response to Peter, so I'll avoid repeating those specifics here.

I'll preempt antagonistic comments about my choices by admitting that
I've gotten old and lazy. However, even as a young guy, I found that
owning a wooden boat meant spending more time doing maintenance than
sailing. I'm too lazy to consider that "fun." I'm not a woodworker,
I'm a sailor. (With apologies to Dr. McCoy from the original Star
Trek.) To me, that means that I do maintenance because I must, not
because it's a pleasurable end in itself. I also don't wanna be a
diesel mechanic, or an electrician, or a plumber, or whatever. If I
were rich, I admit I'd pay somebody to do all that kinda crap.

I'm 56 and I've been sailing since I was a kid. I've been on a lot of
different types of boats for varying lengths of time, not just around
the buoys on Wednesday night. So, when I say that I prefer one thing
to another, I'm not just shooting from the hip or commenting based on
something I once read. I'm making an informed choice based on my
personal experience. I completely understand that YMMV.

For instance, consider the Pardeys. They have vastly more experience
than I and pretty much every opinion they have and every decision they
make is the polar opposite of mine. Does that mean that they're right
and I'm wrong? Or vice versa? Well, if I were drunk enough (in vino
veritas) after our evening of umbrella drinks in that tropical bar, I
might admit that I do think they're kinda wacky. But they seem pretty
happy with who and where they are in life. And they're sure making
more money from sailing than I am. From what I hear, even The Boobster
has a sailing book deal in the works. Imagine that. A sailing book by
Nutsy. The mind boggles. Anyway...

I guess it's nice that there are designers and builders who produce
"traditional" boats and designers and builders who produce other kinds
of boats. That way all us happy little consumers can make whatever
choices we want to.

Frank

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

"Frank Maier" wrote in message
m...
"Donal" asked:
"Frank Maier" wrote:
...snip...
Our trip originated in England. We started right after New Year's from
the Canaries to Barbados.

Did you start from England, *or* from the Canaries?

Well, I flew to England and got on the boat there. From there, we
sailed down to the Canaries. The crossing (specifically) was from the
Canaries.

Does that answer what you were asking? I'm not really sure I
understand what information you were looking for.

You've more than answered my question. Thank you!

I wouldn't mind hearing a bit more about your crossing??????



Regards


Donal
--

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

Is your boat in the water? Because both oars are not.
"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
I haven't been working at all, and my boat is not in Georgia.

That still doesn't explain why you don't know the diffence between being
able
to
cruise the Chesapeake one weekend and the Georgia sounds the next, while
working
full time.

DSK

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

"Donal" wrote...
"Frank Maier" wrote...
Well, I flew to England and got on the boat there. From there, we
sailed down to the Canaries. The crossing (specifically) was from the
Canaries.
Does that answer what you were asking? I'm not really sure I
understand what information you were looking for.

You've more than answered my question. Thank you!
I wouldn't mind hearing a bit more about your crossing??????

I hesitate to plaster the ng with paragraph after paragraph of my
experiences (ego). Makes me feel like I'm a Bobsprit, recounting the
latest "offshore" adventure with a boatload of professional "models,"
or a Jax, dispensing "scientific" wisdom to the low-IQ proles. I'd
rather do this kind of thing in personal e-mail; but yours is spoofed.
So, my preference would be for you to e-mail me a real e-mail address
and I'd shoot you a missive. Alternatively, I guess I *could* just
post something in this thread; at least, it'd be about sailing, unlike
so many threads here.

In either case, it'd be next week before I'd have the time to write it
up 'cause this is a busy week at the Maier household.

Frank

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

I'm curious myself. Have tentative plans to do a crossing in late November,
big hop will be from the Canaries to Antigua, wondering what the weather
might be like.The folks that give you any grief aren't worth bothering
about.
John Cairns
"Frank Maier" wrote in message
om...
"Donal" wrote...
"Frank Maier" wrote...
Well, I flew to England and got on the boat there. From there, we
sailed down to the Canaries. The crossing (specifically) was from the
Canaries.
Does that answer what you were asking? I'm not really sure I
understand what information you were looking for.

You've more than answered my question. Thank you!
I wouldn't mind hearing a bit more about your crossing??????

I hesitate to plaster the ng with paragraph after paragraph of my
experiences (ego). Makes me feel like I'm a Bobsprit, recounting the
latest "offshore" adventure with a boatload of professional "models,"
or a Jax, dispensing "scientific" wisdom to the low-IQ proles. I'd
rather do this kind of thing in personal e-mail; but yours is spoofed.
So, my preference would be for you to e-mail me a real e-mail address
and I'd shoot you a missive. Alternatively, I guess I *could* just
post something in this thread; at least, it'd be about sailing, unlike
so many threads here.

In either case, it'd be next week before I'd have the time to write it
up 'cause this is a busy week at the Maier household.

Frank

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

"Frank Maier" wrote in message
om...
"Donal" wrote...
"Frank Maier" wrote...
Well, I flew to England and got on the boat there. From there, we
sailed down to the Canaries. The crossing (specifically) was from the
Canaries.
Does that answer what you were asking? I'm not really sure I
understand what information you were looking for.

You've more than answered my question. Thank you!
I wouldn't mind hearing a bit more about your crossing??????

I hesitate to plaster the ng with paragraph after paragraph of my
experiences (ego). Makes me feel like I'm a Bobsprit, recounting the
latest "offshore" adventure with a boatload of professional "models,"
or a Jax, dispensing "scientific" wisdom to the low-IQ proles.

Don't worry. You've already proved that you aren't a Jax.


I'd
rather do this kind of thing in personal e-mail; but yours is spoofed.

Sorry. Blame Scotty! My address should now be correct apart from the
"spam" bit.


So, my preference would be for you to e-mail me a real e-mail address
and I'd shoot you a missive. Alternatively, I guess I *could* just
post something in this thread; at least, it'd be about sailing, unlike
so many threads here.

Exactly!

Most of us are *genuinely* interested in sailing.



In either case, it'd be next week before I'd have the time to write it
up 'cause this is a busy week at the Maier household.

I look forward to it.... even if it is a few weeks before you manage to put
pen to paper.




Regards


Donal
--

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

Frank Maier wrote:
I hesitate to plaster the ng with paragraph after paragraph of my
experiences (ego).

Why not? That's what it's here for.

"If you can do it, it ain't bragging."

... Makes me feel like I'm a Bobsprit, recounting the
latest "offshore" adventure with a boatload of professional "models,"
or a Jax, dispensing "scientific" wisdom to the low-IQ proles.

IMHO most people that read more than one or two posts by those guys get
the idea that there is something wrong, and can tell the difference
between real sailing discussion and BS artistry.


... I'd
rather do this kind of thing in personal e-mail; but yours is spoofed.
So, my preference would be for you to e-mail me a real e-mail address
and I'd shoot you a missive. Alternatively, I guess I *could* just
post something in this thread; at least, it'd be about sailing, unlike
so many threads here.

You caught the group at a bad time. It's usually not this off track,
although it helps to widen the discussion subject matter from "sailing"
to "things of interest to sailors." Once people get tired of baiting
JAXAshby (and I for one have almost no interest in playing
kick-the-clown) it will get better.



In either case, it'd be next week before I'd have the time to write it
up 'cause this is a busy week at the Maier household.

S'OK, there will still be somebody here to appreciate it.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Best small Cruisers Under 10K
 

can tell the difference
between real sailing discussion and BS artistry.

Really? Anyone believe it was dougies who made that statement? the same
dougies who stated that motoring a Hunter 19 down Interstate 95 was "sailing"?
And that he had traveled over 275 miles doing it?

You know, if dougies had an AMF Puffer instead he could "sailed" faster and
maybe have made 350 miles down the highway.

yeah, but nightfall was coming and dougies don't drive at night no more.