You're not dealing with reality here. Sure winds can be higher
than predicted. That has nothing to do with being prepared
for and expect conditions different from what is "predicted."
By definition, it's only a guess.

So what you're saying is that because light winds are predicted,
you don't bring foul weather gear and a sail change. You just
go with the prediction. Sounds stupid to me.

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jonathan Ganz wrote:

That's a stupid question. Unexpected winds??? What kind of
sailor would not expect conditions such as this? A stupid or
inexperienced one.

Is there anyone on this ng with extensive sailing experience who hasn't
run into winds higher than were predicted, and higher than he or she
expected? In our area, forecasts can suggest good sailing conditions
with only a slight chance of showers, but storms and severe winds can
form quite quickly.

Ummm... you just contradicted yourself. Sorry to have to point it out.

Get a grip on yourself Johnathan. - Any serious sailor should expect and
be prepared for the possibility that unexpected weather conditions may
occur.


If you were sailing a decent boat, it would survive just about
any high winds that come by. A perfect example is the Satori
from Perfect Storm fame (not the f*cking movie).


It was not an expensive boat compared to other ocean going
sailboats. The fact is that the Mac would not survive anything
approaching the kind of weather one should be prepared to
find on the ocean.

The Satori was a heavy boat specifically built to survive severe heavy
weather conditions miles offshore. It had an overbuilt hull, rigging,
keel, etc., etc. I doubt that most sailors on this ng would enjoy
sailing such a boat even if they could afford the substantial additional
costs.

Jim

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

You're not dealing with reality here. Sure winds can be higher
than predicted. That has nothing to do with being prepared
for and expect conditions different from what is "predicted."
By definition, it's only a guess.

So what you're saying is that because light winds are predicted,
you don't bring foul weather gear and a sail change. You just
go with the prediction. Sounds stupid to me.

Nope. Not at all. I would want to be prepared for any potential
circumstance, but I would plan on motoring and/or sailing back to port
if conditions worsened unexpectantly. If that was not possible, I think
the Macgregor, with reefed or no sails, and storm anchor, could survive
with the best of them. Not comfortably, but it would survive.

By the way, Johathan, are you going to buy one of the heavy-weather
Satori's?



"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jonathan Ganz wrote:


That's a stupid question. Unexpected winds??? What kind of
sailor would not expect conditions such as this? A stupid or
inexperienced one.

Is there anyone on this ng with extensive sailing experience who hasn't
run into winds higher than were predicted, and higher than he or she
expected? In our area, forecasts can suggest good sailing conditions
with only a slight chance of showers, but storms and severe winds can
form quite quickly.


Ummm... you just contradicted yourself. Sorry to have to point it out.


Get a grip on yourself Johnathan. - Any serious sailor should expect and
be prepared for the possibility that unexpected weather conditions may
occur.


If you were sailing a decent boat, it would survive just about
any high winds that come by. A perfect example is the Satori
from Perfect Storm fame (not the f*cking movie).



It was not an expensive boat compared to other ocean going
sailboats. The fact is that the Mac would not survive anything
approaching the kind of weather one should be prepared to
find on the ocean.


The Satori was a heavy boat specifically built to survive severe heavy
weather conditions miles offshore. It had an overbuilt hull, rigging,
keel, etc., etc. I doubt that most sailors on this ng would enjoy
sailing such a boat even if they could afford the substantial additional
costs.

Jim

MacBoy, you say you would want to be prepared, but you would plan on
motoring or sailing back from where? 500 miles off the coast? Actually,
the truth is that you would not survive either with or without your Mac,
since you're clearly not much of sailor, having bought a Mac. But, since
you made the statement you did about the Mac surviving such an experience,
it's again obvious that you know nothing of boats. However, feel free to
prove us all wrong. I suggest you leave immediately. Give us a full report
including pictures should you happen to return. I'm sure we'll all then
rush out and buy one.

I'm not planning on buying a Satori, since I already have a quite a nice
boat, which while off-shore capable, is not set up for it. Further, I have
no desire to do any extended off-shore trips, since where I sail is fun
and challenging, and I have local responsibilities.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jonathan Ganz wrote:

You're not dealing with reality here. Sure winds can be higher
than predicted. That has nothing to do with being prepared
for and expect conditions different from what is "predicted."
By definition, it's only a guess.

So what you're saying is that because light winds are predicted,
you don't bring foul weather gear and a sail change. You just
go with the prediction. Sounds stupid to me.

Nope. Not at all. I would want to be prepared for any potential
circumstance, but I would plan on motoring and/or sailing back to port
if conditions worsened unexpectantly. If that was not possible, I think
the Macgregor, with reefed or no sails, and storm anchor, could survive
with the best of them. Not comfortably, but it would survive.

By the way, Johathan, are you going to buy one of the heavy-weather
Satori's?



"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jonathan Ganz wrote:


That's a stupid question. Unexpected winds??? What kind of
sailor would not expect conditions such as this? A stupid or
inexperienced one.

Is there anyone on this ng with extensive sailing experience who hasn't
run into winds higher than were predicted, and higher than he or she
expected? In our area, forecasts can suggest good sailing conditions
with only a slight chance of showers, but storms and severe winds can
form quite quickly.


Ummm... you just contradicted yourself. Sorry to have to point it out.


Get a grip on yourself Johnathan. - Any serious sailor should expect and
be prepared for the possibility that unexpected weather conditions may
occur.


If you were sailing a decent boat, it would survive just about
any high winds that come by. A perfect example is the Satori
from Perfect Storm fame (not the f*cking movie).



It was not an expensive boat compared to other ocean going
sailboats. The fact is that the Mac would not survive anything
approaching the kind of weather one should be prepared to
find on the ocean.


The Satori was a heavy boat specifically built to survive severe heavy
weather conditions miles offshore. It had an overbuilt hull, rigging,
keel, etc., etc. I doubt that most sailors on this ng would enjoy
sailing such a boat even if they could afford the substantial additional
costs.

Jim

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

MacBoy, you say you would want to be prepared, but you would plan on
motoring or sailing back from where? 500 miles off the coast?


Nope. Not more than 100 miles offshore.

Actually,
the truth is that you would not survive either with or without your Mac,
since you're clearly not much of sailor, having bought a Mac.


What a ridiculous, asinine statement. - I'm not a sailor, since I bought
a Mac. - The bottom line, Jonathan, is that you have no understanding
whatsoever of the most basic aspects of logic, rationality, and
intellectual honesty. - In other words, you aren't willing to tell the
truth.


But, since
you made the statement you did about the Mac surviving such an experience,
it's again obvious that you know nothing of boats. However, feel free to
prove us all wrong. I suggest you leave immediately. Give us a full report
including pictures should you happen to return. I'm sure we'll all then
rush out and buy one.

I'll be happy to provide detailed reports of my offshore trips in the
Mac26M.

I'm not planning on buying a Satori, since I already have a quite a nice
boat, which while off-shore capable, is not set up for it. Further, I have
no desire to do any extended off-shore trips, since where I sail is fun
and challenging, and I have local responsibilities.

Sure Johnathan. But would you recommend the Satori to anyone else on
this ng???


Jim

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

you're clearly not much of sailor, having bought a Mac.



"Jim Cate" agreed and wrote ...

I'm not a sailor, since I bought
a Mac.

MacBoy,

Actually, if you had said 100 miles inland, I might have agreed with you.

No. You're not a sailor because you have no idea how to sail. You
think a motor boat with a sail on it is a sailboat. You claim a great
deal of knowledge for someone who just plunked down a bunch of
money for a piece of junk.

We await your unlikely return from the ocean.

Yes, there are several people on this ng who have a greater chance
of even wanting to sail offshore. In fact, I could recommend it to
myself, if I wanted to do that again. Maybe I will someday. At the
moment, I'm only interested in bay and minor coastal sailing.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


Jonathan Ganz wrote:

MacBoy, you say you would want to be prepared, but you would plan on
motoring or sailing back from where? 500 miles off the coast?


Nope. Not more than 100 miles offshore.

Actually,
the truth is that you would not survive either with or without your Mac,
since you're clearly not much of sailor, having bought a Mac.


What a ridiculous, asinine statement. - I'm not a sailor, since I bought
a Mac. - The bottom line, Jonathan, is that you have no understanding
whatsoever of the most basic aspects of logic, rationality, and
intellectual honesty. - In other words, you aren't willing to tell the
truth.


But, since
you made the statement you did about the Mac surviving such an
experience,
it's again obvious that you know nothing of boats. However, feel free to
prove us all wrong. I suggest you leave immediately. Give us a full
report
including pictures should you happen to return. I'm sure we'll all then
rush out and buy one.

I'll be happy to provide detailed reports of my offshore trips in the
Mac26M.

I'm not planning on buying a Satori, since I already have a quite a nice
boat, which while off-shore capable, is not set up for it. Further, I
have
no desire to do any extended off-shore trips, since where I sail is fun
and challenging, and I have local responsibilities.

Sure Johnathan. But would you recommend the Satori to anyone else on
this ng???


Jim

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

MacBoy,

Actually, if you had said 100 miles inland, I might have agreed with you.

No. You're not a sailor because you have no idea how to sail. You
think a motor boat with a sail on it is a sailboat. You claim a great
deal of knowledge for someone who just plunked down a bunch of
money for a piece of junk.

We await your unlikely return from the ocean.

Yes, there are several people on this ng who have a greater chance
of even wanting to sail offshore. In fact, I could recommend it to
myself, if I wanted to do that again. Maybe I will someday. At the
moment, I'm only interested in bay and minor coastal sailing.


You seem to be loosing it, Johathan, for everyone to see. - Get a grip
on yourself.

And if what you say were true, that I'm going to perish at sea if I sail
the 26M offshore, then you will soon be rid of me, after which you won't
have to read or respond to any of my notes. - That ought to make you
happy, but instead, you're obviously so stressed out over this
discussion that you can't let it go.

Jim