Jim Cate wrote:

And how many times have you sailed on the 26M, DK? - Was it five times,
ten times, fifteen? I seem to have forgotten.

Gosh, you're so right... it's gotta be better than the old one... it's NEW & IMPROVED!!

BTW it does not not have a new hull design. Exactly the same, only painted darker colors
which does not improve sailng characteristics as far as anybody has been able to
determine. And the ones I have seen certainly don't have rotating masts either.... anyway
that would be a waste of time on a boat with a PHRF rating of 216.

The two Mac26Ms at our marina I have seen out sailing a dozen times or so. They are not
even a match for the San Juan 21, of which there is a strong local class, which rates
252. The SJ21 literally sails rings around the M26M. Figure it out.

The point, Jim, is to enjoy your time on the water. If you happen to not care about
sailing other than to have some sails up and hear the wake gurgling, then go for it. If
you enjoy really *sailing* then you'll be disappointed. Doesn't matter to me one way or
the other.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Hey Doug,My Hobie had a rotating mast, I can't remember exactly how the
shrouds were mounted but I'm guessing they just 'twisted' a bit with the
mast. How would a mast with spreaders be able to rotate?

Scotty

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Jim Cate wrote:

And how many times have you sailed on the 26M, DK? - Was it five times,
ten times, fifteen? I seem to have forgotten.

Gosh, you're so right... it's gotta be better than the old one... it's NEW
& IMPROVED!!

BTW it does not not have a new hull design. Exactly the same, only painted
darker colors
which does not improve sailng characteristics as far as anybody has been
able to
determine. And the ones I have seen certainly don't have rotating masts
either.... anyway
that would be a waste of time on a boat with a PHRF rating of 216.

The two Mac26Ms at our marina I have seen out sailing a dozen times or so.
They are not
even a match for the San Juan 21, of which there is a strong local class,
which rates
252. The SJ21 literally sails rings around the M26M. Figure it out.

The point, Jim, is to enjoy your time on the water. If you happen to not
care about
sailing other than to have some sails up and hear the wake gurgling, then
go for it. If
you enjoy really *sailing* then you'll be disappointed. Doesn't matter to
me one way or
the other.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:

Jim Cate wrote:


And how many times have you sailed on the 26M, DK? - Was it five times,
ten times, fifteen? I seem to have forgotten.


Gosh, you're so right... it's gotta be better than the old one... it's NEW & IMPROVED!!

BTW it does not not have a new hull design. Exactly the same, only painted darker colors
which does not improve sailng characteristics as far as anybody has been able to
determine.

It has "Exactly the same hull, except for the dark paint"??? DK, you are
either confused or hung over. The M model is definitely a "new hull
design." The M model includes a deep, 15-degree V-hull, as compared with
the X model's much flatter, 8-degree hull. Additionally, the boat has a
vertically retractable, relatively dagger board instead of the pivotable
fin keel of the older boat, which nested in an a rearwardly extending
groove in the hull. Whether or not these changes make the boat "better"
or "improved, there is no question that the hull is, in fact,
substantially different. In the interests of logic, intellectual
honesty, and plain old truthfullness, you shouln't post false assertions
concerning matters about which you really don't know what you are
talking about.


And the ones I have seen certainly don't have rotating masts
either.... anyway
that would be a waste of time on a boat with a PHRF rating of 216.


Again, the M model does has a rotating mast. If the one you are
describing doesn't, it's further evidence that you really don't know
which model it is. Again, in the interest of plain old logic and
intellectual honesty, you ought to do your homework and get your facts
straight.

The two Mac26Ms at our marina I have seen out sailing a dozen times or so. They are not
even a match for the San Juan 21, of which there is a strong local class, which rates
252. The SJ21 literally sails rings around the M26M. Figure it out.

The point, Jim, is to enjoy your time on the water. If you happen to not care about
sailing other than to have some sails up and hear the wake gurgling, then go for it. If
you enjoy really *sailing* then you'll be disappointed. Doesn't matter to me one way or
the other.


I may get one of the 26M's. However, I'm not sure I can afford one, and
my budget may dictate that I have to settle for a 34-foot O'Day, Cal, or
C&C.

Jim
Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Just to give you some more perspective on the MacGregor 26 line...

While I haven't sailed on any of them, I've seen a few out on the bay
(sans my friend who has one, who I know is a good sailor). All have
been sailed very poorly. The rigging is light weight compared to other
boats of a similar size. For the bay, they're mostly inappropriate in my
opinion.

Also, I have a family friend who owns the largest (I believe) MacGregor
dealership in Northern Cal. They sell a lot of them. Even his wife thinks
there's trash and the only reason they sail them at all is so they can sell
them. They don't really push them. People come in and basically tell
them to sell it to them.

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


DSK wrote:

Jim Cate wrote:


And how many times have you sailed on the 26M, DK? - Was it five times,
ten times, fifteen? I seem to have forgotten.


Gosh, you're so right... it's gotta be better than the old one... it's
NEW & IMPROVED!!

BTW it does not not have a new hull design. Exactly the same, only
painted darker colors
which does not improve sailng characteristics as far as anybody has been
able to
determine.

It has "Exactly the same hull, except for the dark paint"??? DK, you are
either confused or hung over. The M model is definitely a "new hull
design." The M model includes a deep, 15-degree V-hull, as compared with
the X model's much flatter, 8-degree hull. Additionally, the boat has a
vertically retractable, relatively dagger board instead of the pivotable
fin keel of the older boat, which nested in an a rearwardly extending
groove in the hull. Whether or not these changes make the boat "better"
or "improved, there is no question that the hull is, in fact,
substantially different. In the interests of logic, intellectual
honesty, and plain old truthfullness, you shouln't post false assertions
concerning matters about which you really don't know what you are
talking about.


And the ones I have seen certainly don't have rotating masts
either.... anyway
that would be a waste of time on a boat with a PHRF rating of 216.


Again, the M model does has a rotating mast. If the one you are
describing doesn't, it's further evidence that you really don't know
which model it is. Again, in the interest of plain old logic and
intellectual honesty, you ought to do your homework and get your facts
straight.

The two Mac26Ms at our marina I have seen out sailing a dozen times or
so. They are not
even a match for the San Juan 21, of which there is a strong local
class, which rates
252. The SJ21 literally sails rings around the M26M. Figure it out.

The point, Jim, is to enjoy your time on the water. If you happen to not
care about
sailing other than to have some sails up and hear the wake gurgling,
then go for it. If
you enjoy really *sailing* then you'll be disappointed. Doesn't matter
to me one way or
the other.


I may get one of the 26M's. However, I'm not sure I can afford one, and
my budget may dictate that I have to settle for a 34-foot O'Day, Cal, or
C&C.

Jim
Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Jim Cate wrote:
It has "Exactly the same hull, except for the dark paint"??? DK, you are
either confused or hung over.

Umm, no. Either the boat(s) that I have seen as "Mac26M"s were not, or
they are the same hull. It might have 15 degree deadrise up near the
bow, but the transom looks like the letter "U". A wide one. Nor did the
old one have 8 degrees of deadrise (except maybe up near the bow).

Before you suggest that I don't know what I'm talking about, when you
are the one asking me for advice, you check around some other sources.
For starters, park a "new" Mac26 next to an old one, and look carefully
at the hull shape.

It looks to me like you've been sold a bill of goods, and aren't going
to listen to the truth. If your sailing happiness is based on
self-delusion (and these days it seems like a lot of people base quite a
lot on this) then it would be most honorable for me to not try and
enlighten you.

DSK

Doug, while I wouldn't want a Mac26 in my worst nightmare, you're wrong about
the hull, though Macgregor says the performance edge was for POWERING. The
daggerboard is the other big whoop along with the larger "rotating" rig. It's
improved...like New Coke.

http://www.macgregor26.com/comparison_26x_and_26m.htm

RB

The water ballast
weighs 1400 pounds, so that would be an instant drop to a possible top
speed of only 10 MPH according to the MacGregor website (1 MPH drop
for every 100 pounds added.) That's with all the other caveats (one
person, no rigging, etc) remaining.

So with a crew of 4 adults, food and water and other supplies, the 26M will
actually do -4 knots.

RB

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:15:03 -0500, DSK wrote:

Jim Cate wrote:
It has "Exactly the same hull, except for the dark paint"??? DK, you are
either confused or hung over.

Umm, no. Either the boat(s) that I have seen as "Mac26M"s were not, or
they are the same hull. It might have 15 degree deadrise up near the
bow, but the transom looks like the letter "U". A wide one. Nor did the
old one have 8 degrees of deadrise (except maybe up near the bow).

Before you suggest that I don't know what I'm talking about, when you
are the one asking me for advice, you check around some other sources.
For starters, park a "new" Mac26 next to an old one, and look carefully
at the hull shape.

It looks to me like you've been sold a bill of goods, and aren't going
to listen to the truth. If your sailing happiness is based on
self-delusion (and these days it seems like a lot of people base quite a
lot on this) then it would be most honorable for me to not try and
enlighten you.

DSK

Actually I am leaning towards the theory that "jim" either already
owns one, is in the business of selling them or is some sort of
disinformation campaign trying to resurrect the Mac26X/M from it's
well deserved position in the sailing Hall of Humor.

He starts off asking for advice and then begins his debates, claiming
that anyone who hasn't sailed one can't possibly have an informed
opinion. Although he seemed to know nothing of boats, which would
make him the target demographic for these things, he then begins to
articulate all the goofy advertising claims for the "new and improved"
Mac26, while lamenting that he might have to settle for a Cal or C&C.

I do wish Jim the best, though, in acquiring the Mac26M as it seems to
be the boat which meets his needs and fulfills his desires. I suspect
he needs to look elsewhere for confirmation. I have never yet met
anyone with any sailing background or ability who would agree with
him.

felton wrote:
Actually I am leaning towards the theory that "jim" either already
owns one, is in the business of selling them or is some sort of
disinformation campaign trying to resurrect the Mac26X/M from it's
well deserved position in the sailing Hall of Humor.

Good call. I should have ignored him, but it's a slow day. And the
weather has really turned beautiful, I need to go sailing!


I do wish Jim the best, though, in acquiring the Mac26M as it seems to
be the boat which meets his needs and fulfills his desires. I suspect
he needs to look elsewhere for confirmation. I have never yet met
anyone with any sailing background or ability who would agree with
him.

I have a number of friends who've owned the things... all but one have
moved on. We went sailing & cruising in company many times in the
mid/late 90s. They are kinda fun if you don't mind the looks (and this
is one improvement in the new version)and don't expect much to happen
when you work at getting the sail trim right (once you get the rudders
fixed). It's really a camper trailer that also functions as a boat!

I'd be interested to see what MacGregor bases the claims of redesigned
hull upon. I've seen both on their trailers, and there ain't any visible
difference. You could literally swap trailers and not notice. But then
MacGregor has unfortunately gone down the road from mildly deceptive
advertising, to flirting with outright falsehood... maybe now they've
crossed the line?



wrote:
Also note that the claimed speed of 24 MPH is with a 50 HP motor, one
person aboard, no water ballast, and the rigging entirely REMOVED.

I believe I mentioned something along those lines. The speeds I've
observed for the things in real life is more in the neighborhood of 15
knots (18 mph)


..... The water ballast
weighs 1400 pounds, so that would be an instant drop to a possible top
speed of only 10 MPH according to the MacGregor website (1 MPH drop
for every 100 pounds added.)

The drag increases on a curve, so each added 100 lbs would decrease the
speed a bit less. Anyway, the ballast tank is designed so that it can be
emptied while motoring.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I'd be interested to see what MacGregor bases the claims of redesigned
hull upon. I've seen both on their trailers, and there ain't any visible
difference.

Doug, I provided a link that clearly explained the mods to the hull. It "is"
different.

RB