Lifelines III
 

I mentioned earlier that the lifeline is only one integral part of the
system and then included stanchions and Doug brought in the issue of
stanchion bases. Finally we mentioned jacklines. But's thats' not all of
it.

A word on harnesses and tethers. Again this is of interest only for those
who go where they are needed, or those who need them regardless of where
they go.

Tethers. I was tempted once upon a time to use one long one. Then I had
occasion to test what it was like to be dragged alongside a self steering
boat and try to get back on board. Not a pretty picture. No it wasn't an
accident it was a tested conducted at speeds from one to seven knots. Based
on that days work we came up with the following:

Use short tethers. That coupled to a centered jackline will keep you from
going over.

Use two tethers in heavy weather. Snap in to the next section of jackline
before unsnapping the first one. In the worksite use both.

Use snaplinks that are positive locking. The best one's don't come from the
marine stores. Go to a store specializing in gear for blue collar folks.
My personal favorite isWork Wear in Lynwood WA.

Harnesses. The SOSpenders and the stand alone harnesses are neat,
comfortable and do the job PROVIDING they don't pop open. The kind with the
buckle that goes through an opening sideways then falls into place is not
worth the money. On our fullharnesses we use the kind where the chest and
leg straps are a sturdy belt buckle arrangement or a positive snap link with
safety release arrangement.

For going aloft or for veryheavy weather I use the industrial kind
withtheleg straps. On these the tether goes in the middle of the back or to
two chest rings. For standard work around the boat I had my comfortable
chest only harness modified with positive snap hooks to ensure it wouldn't
come undone.

This sort of gear also makes it easy for other crew to get you back on board
or lower you down from an aloft worksite.

Stay away from the belt only kind for deck or going aloft purposes. These
are banned from commercial ships anymore. Sudden falls to tether end save
the sailor from going over but damage the spinal cord severely.

When choosing your gear keep this in mind. No one is going to show up in a
few minutes when you are way out there. What you have with you is all you
have. Tools not Toys. And those who choose to use none of the above won't
be out to help you either.

M.

Lifelines III
 

Yep... it's better to have two (one short and one so you can stand) for
rough conditions. As you say, jacklines in sections is the ticket. Also,
don't forget the instruction to the crew. For example, when off shore,
the rule was that you must be hooked on when you exit the cabin at
night. During the day, this is true only in rough weather.

I have the SOSpenders with the integrated harness. Why do you think
a separate system is better?

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I mentioned earlier that the lifeline is only one integral part of the
system and then included stanchions and Doug brought in the issue of
stanchion bases. Finally we mentioned jacklines. But's thats' not all of
it.

A word on harnesses and tethers. Again this is of interest only for those
who go where they are needed, or those who need them regardless of where
they go.

Tethers. I was tempted once upon a time to use one long one. Then I had
occasion to test what it was like to be dragged alongside a self steering
boat and try to get back on board. Not a pretty picture. No it wasn't an
accident it was a tested conducted at speeds from one to seven knots.
Based
on that days work we came up with the following:

Use short tethers. That coupled to a centered jackline will keep you from
going over.

Use two tethers in heavy weather. Snap in to the next section of jackline
before unsnapping the first one. In the worksite use both.

Use snaplinks that are positive locking. The best one's don't come from
the
marine stores. Go to a store specializing in gear for blue collar folks.
My personal favorite isWork Wear in Lynwood WA.

Harnesses. The SOSpenders and the stand alone harnesses are neat,
comfortable and do the job PROVIDING they don't pop open. The kind with
the
buckle that goes through an opening sideways then falls into place is not
worth the money. On our fullharnesses we use the kind where the chest and
leg straps are a sturdy belt buckle arrangement or a positive snap link
with
safety release arrangement.

For going aloft or for veryheavy weather I use the industrial kind
withtheleg straps. On these the tether goes in the middle of the back or
to
two chest rings. For standard work around the boat I had my comfortable
chest only harness modified with positive snap hooks to ensure it wouldn't
come undone.

This sort of gear also makes it easy for other crew to get you back on
board
or lower you down from an aloft worksite.

Stay away from the belt only kind for deck or going aloft purposes. These
are banned from commercial ships anymore. Sudden falls to tether end save
the sailor from going over but damage the spinal cord severely.

When choosing your gear keep this in mind. No one is going to show up in
a
few minutes when you are way out there. What you have with you is all you
have. Tools not Toys. And those who choose to use none of the above
won't
be out to help you either.

M.

Lifelines III
 

jonny, you stupid, clumsy, spastic clod. I have gone forward at night offshore
to change headsails without a harness or jackline in utter safety. You, on the
other hand, would fall overboard.

Yep... it's better to have two (one short and one so you can stand) for
rough conditions. As you say, jacklines in sections is the ticket. Also,
don't forget the instruction to the crew. For example, when off shore,
the rule was that you must be hooked on when you exit the cabin at
night. During the day, this is true only in rough weather.

I have the SOSpenders with the integrated harness. Why do you think
a separate system is better?

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I mentioned earlier that the lifeline is only one integral part of the
system and then included stanchions and Doug brought in the issue of
stanchion bases. Finally we mentioned jacklines. But's thats' not all of
it.

A word on harnesses and tethers. Again this is of interest only for those
who go where they are needed, or those who need them regardless of where
they go.

Tethers. I was tempted once upon a time to use one long one. Then I had
occasion to test what it was like to be dragged alongside a self steering
boat and try to get back on board. Not a pretty picture. No it wasn't an
accident it was a tested conducted at speeds from one to seven knots.
Based
on that days work we came up with the following:

Use short tethers. That coupled to a centered jackline will keep you from
going over.

Use two tethers in heavy weather. Snap in to the next section of jackline
before unsnapping the first one. In the worksite use both.

Use snaplinks that are positive locking. The best one's don't come from
the
marine stores. Go to a store specializing in gear for blue collar folks.
My personal favorite isWork Wear in Lynwood WA.

Harnesses. The SOSpenders and the stand alone harnesses are neat,
comfortable and do the job PROVIDING they don't pop open. The kind with
the
buckle that goes through an opening sideways then falls into place is not
worth the money. On our fullharnesses we use the kind where the chest and
leg straps are a sturdy belt buckle arrangement or a positive snap link
with
safety release arrangement.

For going aloft or for veryheavy weather I use the industrial kind
withtheleg straps. On these the tether goes in the middle of the back or
to
two chest rings. For standard work around the boat I had my comfortable
chest only harness modified with positive snap hooks to ensure it wouldn't
come undone.

This sort of gear also makes it easy for other crew to get you back on
board
or lower you down from an aloft worksite.

Stay away from the belt only kind for deck or going aloft purposes. These
are banned from commercial ships anymore. Sudden falls to tether end save
the sailor from going over but damage the spinal cord severely.

When choosing your gear keep this in mind. No one is going to show up in
a
few minutes when you are way out there. What you have with you is all you
have. Tools not Toys. And those who choose to use none of the above
won't
be out to help you either.

M.

Lifelines III
 

Thanks for the assist on leaving the cabin. That is the rule for offshore
no matter the size of the crew. Harness on when leaving the cabin. Night
time you reach out and hook in before entering the cockpit, if single
handing or single watchstanding the same in the day time. If weather is F4
or above same deal 24/7. If leaving the cockpit at anytime hooked into the
jacklines.

I mispoke, or mistyped on the SOSpenders since I use them myself. My intent
was to compare them or the separate two piece type of setup with the
commercial variety.

My apologies.

M.


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Yep... it's better to have two (one short and one so you can stand) for
rough conditions. As you say, jacklines in sections is the ticket. Also,
don't forget the instruction to the crew. For example, when off shore,
the rule was that you must be hooked on when you exit the cabin at
night. During the day, this is true only in rough weather.

I have the SOSpenders with the integrated harness. Why do you think
a separate system is better?

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I mentioned earlier that the lifeline is only one integral part of the
system and then included stanchions and Doug brought in the issue of
stanchion bases. Finally we mentioned jacklines. But's thats' not all
of
it.

A word on harnesses and tethers. Again this is of interest only for
those
who go where they are needed, or those who need them regardless of where
they go.

Tethers. I was tempted once upon a time to use one long one. Then I
had
occasion to test what it was like to be dragged alongside a self
steering
boat and try to get back on board. Not a pretty picture. No it wasn't
an
accident it was a tested conducted at speeds from one to seven knots.
Based
on that days work we came up with the following:

Use short tethers. That coupled to a centered jackline will keep you
from
going over.

Use two tethers in heavy weather. Snap in to the next section of
jackline
before unsnapping the first one. In the worksite use both.

Use snaplinks that are positive locking. The best one's don't come from
the
marine stores. Go to a store specializing in gear for blue collar
folks.
My personal favorite isWork Wear in Lynwood WA.

Harnesses. The SOSpenders and the stand alone harnesses are neat,
comfortable and do the job PROVIDING they don't pop open. The kind with
the
buckle that goes through an opening sideways then falls into place is
not
worth the money. On our fullharnesses we use the kind where the chest
and
leg straps are a sturdy belt buckle arrangement or a positive snap link
with
safety release arrangement.

For going aloft or for veryheavy weather I use the industrial kind
withtheleg straps. On these the tether goes in the middle of the back or
to
two chest rings. For standard work around the boat I had my comfortable
chest only harness modified with positive snap hooks to ensure it
wouldn't
come undone.

This sort of gear also makes it easy for other crew to get you back on
board
or lower you down from an aloft worksite.

Stay away from the belt only kind for deck or going aloft purposes.
These
are banned from commercial ships anymore. Sudden falls to tether end
save
the sailor from going over but damage the spinal cord severely.

When choosing your gear keep this in mind. No one is going to show up
in
a
few minutes when you are way out there. What you have with you is all
you
have. Tools not Toys. And those who choose to use none of the above
won't
be out to help you either.

M.

Lifelines III
 

"Michael" wrote


Stay away from the belt only kind for deck or going aloft purposes. These
are banned from commercial ships anymore. Sudden falls to tether end save
the sailor from going over but damage the spinal cord severely.


Yes they do, But you would think a professional mariner like you would
mention the use of a dyna brake.


Joe
MSV RedCloud




When choosing your gear keep this in mind. No one is going to show up in a
few minutes when you are way out there. What you have with you is all you
have. Tools not Toys. And those who choose to use none of the above won't
be out to help you either.

M.

Lifelines III
 

F4, eh?

F1, if you are a real klutz.

Thanks for the assist on leaving the cabin. That is the rule for offshore
no matter the size of the crew. Harness on when leaving the cabin. Night
time you reach out and hook in before entering the cockpit, if single
handing or single watchstanding the same in the day time. If weather is F4
or above same deal 24/7. If leaving the cockpit at anytime hooked into the
jacklines.

I mispoke, or mistyped on the SOSpenders since I use them myself. My intent
was to compare them or the separate two piece type of setup with the
commercial variety.

My apologies.

M.


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Yep... it's better to have two (one short and one so you can stand) for
rough conditions. As you say, jacklines in sections is the ticket. Also,
don't forget the instruction to the crew. For example, when off shore,
the rule was that you must be hooked on when you exit the cabin at
night. During the day, this is true only in rough weather.

I have the SOSpenders with the integrated harness. Why do you think
a separate system is better?

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I mentioned earlier that the lifeline is only one integral part of the
system and then included stanchions and Doug brought in the issue of
stanchion bases. Finally we mentioned jacklines. But's thats' not all
of
it.

A word on harnesses and tethers. Again this is of interest only for
those
who go where they are needed, or those who need them regardless of where
they go.

Tethers. I was tempted once upon a time to use one long one. Then I
had
occasion to test what it was like to be dragged alongside a self
steering
boat and try to get back on board. Not a pretty picture. No it wasn't
an
accident it was a tested conducted at speeds from one to seven knots.
Based
on that days work we came up with the following:

Use short tethers. That coupled to a centered jackline will keep you
from
going over.

Use two tethers in heavy weather. Snap in to the next section of
jackline
before unsnapping the first one. In the worksite use both.

Use snaplinks that are positive locking. The best one's don't come from
the
marine stores. Go to a store specializing in gear for blue collar
folks.
My personal favorite isWork Wear in Lynwood WA.

Harnesses. The SOSpenders and the stand alone harnesses are neat,
comfortable and do the job PROVIDING they don't pop open. The kind with
the
buckle that goes through an opening sideways then falls into place is
not
worth the money. On our fullharnesses we use the kind where the chest
and
leg straps are a sturdy belt buckle arrangement or a positive snap link
with
safety release arrangement.

For going aloft or for v

Lifelines III
 

Sure. Whatever you say. I'm sure the people in the mental
hospital really want you back soon.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jonny, you stupid, clumsy, spastic clod. I have gone forward at night
offshore
to change headsails without a harness or jackline in utter safety. You,
on the
other hand, would fall overboard.

Yep... it's better to have two (one short and one so you can stand) for
rough conditions. As you say, jacklines in sections is the ticket. Also,
don't forget the instruction to the crew. For example, when off shore,
the rule was that you must be hooked on when you exit the cabin at
night. During the day, this is true only in rough weather.

I have the SOSpenders with the integrated harness. Why do you think
a separate system is better?

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I mentioned earlier that the lifeline is only one integral part of the
system and then included stanchions and Doug brought in the issue of
stanchion bases. Finally we mentioned jacklines. But's thats' not all
of
it.

A word on harnesses and tethers. Again this is of interest only for
those
who go where they are needed, or those who need them regardless of
where
they go.

Tethers. I was tempted once upon a time to use one long one. Then I
had
occasion to test what it was like to be dragged alongside a self
steering
boat and try to get back on board. Not a pretty picture. No it wasn't
an
accident it was a tested conducted at speeds from one to seven knots.
Based
on that days work we came up with the following:

Use short tethers. That coupled to a centered jackline will keep you
from
going over.

Use two tethers in heavy weather. Snap in to the next section of
jackline
before unsnapping the first one. In the worksite use both.

Use snaplinks that are positive locking. The best one's don't come
from
the
marine stores. Go to a store specializing in gear for blue collar
folks.
My personal favorite isWork Wear in Lynwood WA.

Harnesses. The SOSpenders and the stand alone harnesses are neat,
comfortable and do the job PROVIDING they don't pop open. The kind
with
the
buckle that goes through an opening sideways then falls into place is
not
worth the money. On our fullharnesses we use the kind where the chest
and
leg straps are a sturdy belt buckle arrangement or a positive snap link
with
safety release arrangement.

For going aloft or for veryheavy weather I use the industrial kind
withtheleg straps. On these the tether goes in the middle of the back
or
to
two chest rings. For standard work around the boat I had my
comfortable
chest only harness modified with positive snap hooks to ensure it
wouldn't
come undone.

This sort of gear also makes it easy for other crew to get you back on
board
or lower you down from an aloft worksite.

Stay away from the belt only kind for deck or going aloft purposes.
These
are banned from commercial ships anymore. Sudden falls to tether end
save
the sailor from going over but damage the spinal cord severely.

When choosing your gear keep this in mind. No one is going to show up
in
a
few minutes when you are way out there. What you have with you is all
you
have. Tools not Toys. And those who choose to use none of the above
won't
be out to help you either.

M.

Lifelines III
 

He speak from experience...

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
F1, if you are a real klutz.

Lifelines III
 

Sure. Whatever you say. I'm sure the people in the mental
hospital really want you back soon.

Why are you sure of that? The only time I have ever seen the inside of a
mental hospital was when the high school senior class was taken to one as part
of the state's required course work to scare the seniors into not making
babies. That was a VERY long time ago. I can't imagine that anyone would even
remember I was there even a week later, let alone decades later. In fact,
likely is that most of those people who ran the place are long since dead.

Jonny, do you know something about the inside of mental hospitals you haven't
told us about?


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jonny, you stupid, clumsy, spastic clod. I have gone forward at night
offshore
to change headsails without a harness or jackline in utter safety. You,
on the
other hand, would fall overboard.

Yep... it's better to have two (one short and one so you can stand) for
rough conditions. As you say, jacklines in sections is the ticket. Also,
don't forget the instruction to the crew. For example, when off shore,
the rule was that you must be hooked on when you exit the cabin at
night. During the day, this is true only in rough weather.

I have the SOSpenders with the integrated harness. Why do you think
a separate system is better?

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I mentioned earlier that the lifeline is only one integral part of the
system and then included stanchions and Doug brought in the issue of
stanchion bases. Finally we mentioned jacklines. But's thats' not all
of
it.

A word on harnesses and tethers. Again this is of interest only for
those
who go where they are needed, or those who need them regardless of
where
they go.

Tethers. I was tempted once upon a time to use one long one. Then I
had
occasion to test what it was like to be dragged alongside a self
steering
boat and try to get back on board. Not a pretty picture. No it wasn't
an
accident it was a tested conducted at speeds from one to seven knots.
Based
on that days work we came up with the following:

Use short tethers. That coupled to a centered jackline will keep you
from
going over.

Use two tethers in heavy weather. Snap in to the next section of
jackline
before unsnapping the first one. In the worksite use both.

Use snaplinks that are positive locking. The best one's don't come
from
the
marine stores. Go to a store specializing in gear for blue collar
folks.
My personal favorite isWork Wear in Lynwood WA.

Harnesses. The SOSpenders and the stand alone harnesses are neat,
comfortable and do the job PROVIDING they don't pop open. The kind
with
the
buckle that goes through an opening sideways then falls into place is
not
worth the money. On our fullharnesses we use the kind where the chest
and
leg straps are a sturdy belt buckle arrangement or a positive snap link
with
safety release arrangement.

For going aloft or for veryheavy weather I use the industrial kind
withtheleg straps. On these the tether goes in the middle of the back
or
to
two chest rings. For standard work around the boat I had my
comfortable
chest only harness modified with positive snap hooks to ensure it
wouldn't
come undone.

This sort of gear also makes it easy for other crew to get you back on
board
or lower you down from an aloft worksite.

Stay away from the belt only kind for deck or going aloft purposes.
These
are banned from commercial ships anymore. Sudden falls to tether end
save
the sailor from going over but damage the spinal cord severely.

When choosing your gear keep this in mind. No one is going to show up
in
a
few minutes when you are way out there. What you have with you is all
you
have. Tools not Toys. And those who choose to use none of the above
won't
be out to help you either.

M.

Lifelines III
 

F4, eh?

F1, if you are a real klutz.

Always use an anchor one size to big. Always reef down an hour earlier than
needed or one reef more than needed or one wind level before it's needed.
It's not a race.

M.




Thanks for the assist on leaving the cabin. That is the rule for
offshore
no matter the size of the crew. Harness on when leaving the cabin.
Night
time you reach out and hook in before entering the cockpit, if single
handing or single watchstanding the same in the day time. If weather is
F4
or above same deal 24/7. If leaving the cockpit at anytime hooked into
the
jacklines.

I mispoke, or mistyped on the SOSpenders since I use them myself. My
intent
was to compare them or the separate two piece type of setup with the
commercial variety.

My apologies.

M.


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Yep... it's better to have two (one short and one so you can stand) for
rough conditions. As you say, jacklines in sections is the ticket.
Also,
don't forget the instruction to the crew. For example, when off shore,
the rule was that you must be hooked on when you exit the cabin at
night. During the day, this is true only in rough weather.

I have the SOSpenders with the integrated harness. Why do you think
a separate system is better?

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I mentioned earlier that the lifeline is only one integral part of
the
system and then included stanchions and Doug brought in the issue of
stanchion bases. Finally we mentioned jacklines. But's thats' not
all
of
it.

A word on harnesses and tethers. Again this is of interest only for
those
who go where they are needed, or those who need them regardless of
where
they go.

Tethers. I was tempted once upon a time to use one long one. Then I
had
occasion to test what it was like to be dragged alongside a self
steering
boat and try to get back on board. Not a pretty picture. No it
wasn't
an
accident it was a tested conducted at speeds from one to seven knots.
Based
on that days work we came up with the following:

Use short tethers. That coupled to a centered jackline will keep you
from
going over.

Use two tethers in heavy weather. Snap in to the next section of
jackline
before unsnapping the first one. In the worksite use both.

Use snaplinks that are positive locking. The best one's don't come
from
the
marine stores. Go to a store specializing in gear for blue collar
folks.
My personal favorite isWork Wear in Lynwood WA.

Harnesses. The SOSpenders and the stand alone harnesses are neat,
comfortable and do the job PROVIDING they don't pop open. The kind
with
the
buckle that goes through an opening sideways then falls into place is
not
worth the money. On our fullharnesses we use the kind where the
chest
and
leg straps are a sturdy belt buckle arrangement or a positive snap
link
with
safety release arrangement.

For going aloft or for v

Lifelines III
 

We have them but we don't use them in all circumstances. We also have JLG
buckets on lifts, spider buckets, manlifts, and a lot of things you can't
find readily on small boats. Myself I prefer the venrable Swiss Seat and a
double bowline. Easy to use, safe, secure, and I trust my own rig. But on
the ship's we use what they tell us to, for CFR and insurances purposes I'm
sure and I haven't found a lot of fault with the equipment. Back to small
boats. The latest thing in NW yachting circles, finally and long overdue,
is a direct crossover from technical climbing gear. I've seen it in three
or four sail and rigging lofts in the last few weeks. Used to be you had to
go to REI to find the equipment.

M.


"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"Michael" wrote


Stay away from the belt only kind for deck or going aloft purposes.
These
are banned from commercial ships anymore. Sudden falls to tether end
save
the sailor from going over but damage the spinal cord severely.


Yes they do, But you would think a professional mariner like you would
mention the use of a dyna brake.


Joe
MSV RedCloud




When choosing your gear keep this in mind. No one is going to show up
in a
few minutes when you are way out there. What you have with you is all
you
have. Tools not Toys. And those who choose to use none of the above
won't
be out to help you either.

M.

Lifelines III
 

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
F4, eh?

F1, if you are a real klutz.

or have fenders lying about.

Lifelines III
 

F4 is still a breeze. Even more so in the context of daylight hours in which
it was mentioned.

F4, eh?

F1, if you are a real klutz.

Always use an anchor one size to big. Always reef down an hour earlier than
needed or one reef more than needed or one wind level before it's needed.
It's not a race.

M.




Thanks for the assist on leaving the cabin. That is the rule for
offshore
no matter the size of the crew. Harness on when leaving the cabin.
Night
time you reach out and hook in before entering the cockpit, if single
handing or single watchstanding the same in the day time. If weather is
F4
or above same deal 24/7. If leaving the cockpit at anytime hooked into
the
jacklines.

I mispoke, or mistyped on the SOSpenders since I use them myself. My
intent
was to compare them or the separate two piece type of setup with the
commercial variety.

My apologies.

M.


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Yep... it's better to have two (one short and one so you can stand) for
rough conditions. As you say, jacklines in sections is the ticket.
Also,
don't forget the instruction to the crew. For example, when off shore,
the rule was that you must be hooked on when you exit the cabin at
night. During the day, this is true only in rough weather.

I have the SOSpenders with the integrated harness. Why do you think
a separate system is better?

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I mentioned earlier that the lifeline is only one integral part of
the
system and then included stanchions and Doug brought in the issue of
stanchion bases. Finally we mentioned jacklines. But's thats' not
all
of
it.

A word on harnesses and tethers. Again this is of interest only for
those
who go where they are needed, or those who need them regardless of
where
they go.

Tethers. I was tempted once upon a time to use one long one. Then I
had
occasion to test what it was like to be dragged alongside a self
steering
boat and try to get back on board. Not a pretty picture. No it
wasn't
an
accident it was a tested conducted at speeds from one to seven knots.
Based
on that days work we came up with the following:

Use short tethers. That coupled to a centered jackline will keep you
from
going over.

Use two tethers in heavy weather. Snap in to the next section of
jackline
before unsnapping the first one. In the worksite use both.

Use snaplinks that are positive locking. The best one's don't come
from
the
marine stores. Go to a store specializing in gear for blue collar
folks.
My personal favorite isWork Wear in Lynwood WA.

Harnesses. The SOSpenders and the stand alone harnesses are neat,
comfortable and do the job PROVIDING they don't pop open. The kind
with
the
buckle that goes through an opening sideways then falls into place is
not
worth the money. On our fullharnesses we use the kind where the
chest
and
leg straps are a sturdy belt buckle arrangement or a positive snap
link
with
safety release arrangement.

For going aloft or for v

Lifelines III
 

At night, offshore? No you haven't, you may have been lucky but not using
safe practices, there fore not in utter safety.
"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jonny, you stupid, clumsy, spastic clod. I have gone forward at night
offshore
to change headsails without a harness or jackline in utter safety. You,
on the
other hand, would fall overboard.

Yep... it's better to have two (one short and one so you can stand) for
rough conditions. As you say, jacklines in sections is the ticket. Also,
don't forget the instruction to the crew. For example, when off shore,
the rule was that you must be hooked on when you exit the cabin at
night. During the day, this is true only in rough weather.

I have the SOSpenders with the integrated harness. Why do you think
a separate system is better?

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I mentioned earlier that the lifeline is only one integral part of the
system and then included stanchions and Doug brought in the issue of
stanchion bases. Finally we mentioned jacklines. But's thats' not all
of
it.

A word on harnesses and tethers. Again this is of interest only for
those
who go where they are needed, or those who need them regardless of
where
they go.

Tethers. I was tempted once upon a time to use one long one. Then I
had
occasion to test what it was like to be dragged alongside a self
steering
boat and try to get back on board. Not a pretty picture. No it wasn't
an
accident it was a tested conducted at speeds from one to seven knots.
Based
on that days work we came up with the following:

Use short tethers. That coupled to a centered jackline will keep you
from
going over.

Use two tethers in heavy weather. Snap in to the next section of
jackline
before unsnapping the first one. In the worksite use both.

Use snaplinks that are positive locking. The best one's don't come
from
the
marine stores. Go to a store specializing in gear for blue collar
folks.
My personal favorite isWork Wear in Lynwood WA.

Harnesses. The SOSpenders and the stand alone harnesses are neat,
comfortable and do the job PROVIDING they don't pop open. The kind
with
the
buckle that goes through an opening sideways then falls into place is
not
worth the money. On our fullharnesses we use the kind where the chest
and
leg straps are a sturdy belt buckle arrangement or a positive snap link
with
safety release arrangement.

For going aloft or for veryheavy weather I use the industrial kind
withtheleg straps. On these the tether goes in the middle of the back
or
to
two chest rings. For standard work around the boat I had my
comfortable
chest only harness modified with positive snap hooks to ensure it
wouldn't
come undone.

This sort of gear also makes it easy for other crew to get you back on
board
or lower you down from an aloft worksite.

Stay away from the belt only kind for deck or going aloft purposes.
These
are banned from commercial ships anymore. Sudden falls to tether end
save
the sailor from going over but damage the spinal cord severely.

When choosing your gear keep this in mind. No one is going to show up
in
a
few minutes when you are way out there. What you have with you is all
you
have. Tools not Toys. And those who choose to use none of the above
won't
be out to help you either.

M.

Lifelines III
 

I am sure. You're clearly a mental case. You can claim you've
done or not done this or that, but mostly, you're full of sh*t.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Sure. Whatever you say. I'm sure the people in the mental
hospital really want you back soon.

Why are you sure of that? The only time I have ever seen the inside of a
mental hospital was when the high school senior class was taken to one as
part
of the state's required course work to scare the seniors into not making
babies. That was a VERY long time ago. I can't imagine that anyone would
even
remember I was there even a week later, let alone decades later. In fact,
likely is that most of those people who ran the place are long since dead.

Jonny, do you know something about the inside of mental hospitals you
haven't
told us about?


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jonny, you stupid, clumsy, spastic clod. I have gone forward at night
offshore
to change headsails without a harness or jackline in utter safety.
You,
on the
other hand, would fall overboard.

Yep... it's better to have two (one short and one so you can stand)
for
rough conditions. As you say, jacklines in sections is the ticket.
Also,
don't forget the instruction to the crew. For example, when off shore,
the rule was that you must be hooked on when you exit the cabin at
night. During the day, this is true only in rough weather.

I have the SOSpenders with the integrated harness. Why do you think
a separate system is better?

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I mentioned earlier that the lifeline is only one integral part of
the
system and then included stanchions and Doug brought in the issue of
stanchion bases. Finally we mentioned jacklines. But's thats' not
all
of
it.

A word on harnesses and tethers. Again this is of interest only for
those
who go where they are needed, or those who need them regardless of
where
they go.

Tethers. I was tempted once upon a time to use one long one. Then
I
had
occasion to test what it was like to be dragged alongside a self
steering
boat and try to get back on board. Not a pretty picture. No it
wasn't
an
accident it was a tested conducted at speeds from one to seven
knots.
Based
on that days work we came up with the following:

Use short tethers. That coupled to a centered jackline will keep
you
from
going over.

Use two tethers in heavy weather. Snap in to the next section of
jackline
before unsnapping the first one. In the worksite use both.

Use snaplinks that are positive locking. The best one's don't come
from
the
marine stores. Go to a store specializing in gear for blue collar
folks.
My personal favorite isWork Wear in Lynwood WA.

Harnesses. The SOSpenders and the stand alone harnesses are neat,
comfortable and do the job PROVIDING they don't pop open. The kind
with
the
buckle that goes through an opening sideways then falls into place
is
not
worth the money. On our fullharnesses we use the kind where the
chest
and
leg straps are a sturdy belt buckle arrangement or a positive snap
link
with
safety release arrangement.

For going aloft or for veryheavy weather I use the industrial kind
withtheleg straps. On these the tether goes in the middle of the
back
or
to
two chest rings. For standard work around the boat I had my
comfortable
chest only harness modified with positive snap hooks to ensure it
wouldn't
come undone.

This sort of gear also makes it easy for other crew to get you back
on
board
or lower you down from an aloft worksite.

Stay away from the belt only kind for deck or going aloft purposes.
These
are banned from commercial ships anymore. Sudden falls to tether end
save
the sailor from going over but damage the spinal cord severely.

When choosing your gear keep this in mind. No one is going to show
up
in
a
few minutes when you are way out there. What you have with you is
all
you
have. Tools not Toys. And those who choose to use none of the
above
won't
be out to help you either.

M.

Lifelines III
 

Mich & Jon.

I have an interesting story to tell you about SOS.

I no longer allow anyone wearing them to go forward (Bow Pulpit) to work
on setting sails.

I had a crew member go forward to set the tack on the Assy Spinnaker. He
didn't set his tether to the jack line. He just used it as a hand hold.
As he knelt down to hook the tack, we took water over the bow and into
his lap, inflating his SOS. It pushed his chin up and he couldn't look
down to see the hook for the Tack and was having a hell of a time
locating the Jackline to get back to the mast area.\

The Assy was in a sock and the peak was already hauled up. Poor Bob was
hanging on the the loose end of the "Sock", trying to get hold of the
Jackline. The Jackline going forward gets rather low going to the Bow
Pulpit so the jibs can tack without interference. Bob vision was only
straight ahead. The Mast Man finally made fast the halyard, went down
the jackline, took the loose end of the Sock and sent Bob back to the
mast to give him some slack so he could set the tack.

We don't allow SOS equipped crew forward of the mast any more

Ole Thom

Lifelines III
 

at night, offshore and in utter safety. As much safety as if I were walking
down 5th Avenue in NYC at 10:00 at night.

maybe *you* wouldn't be safe on a deck at night -- offshore OR coastal --, but
you know your limitations better than we do.

Please don't claim that because *you* can't walk on a deck without falling off
that the entire rest of the world can't either.

From: "The Carrolls"

At night, offshore? No you haven't, you may have been lucky but not using
safe practices, there fore not in utter safety.
"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jonny, you stupid, clumsy, spastic clod. I have gone forward at night
offshore
to change headsails without a harness or jackline in utter safety. You,
on the
other hand, would fall overboard.

Yep... it's better to have two (one short and one so you can stand) for
rough conditions. As you say, jacklines in sections is the ticket. Also,
don't forget the instruction to the crew. For example, when off shore,
the rule was that you must be hooked on when you exit the cabin at
night. During the day, this is true only in rough weather.

I have the SOSpenders with the integrated harness. Why do you think
a separate system is better?

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I mentioned earlier that the lifeline is only one integral part of the
system and then included stanchions and Doug brought in the issue of
stanchion bases. Finally we mentioned jacklines. But's thats' not all
of
it.

A word on harnesses and tethers. Again this is of interest only for
those
who go where they are needed, or those who need them regardless of
where
they go.

Tethers. I was tempted once upon a time to use one long one. Then I
had
occasion to test what it was like to be dragged alongside a self
steering
boat and try to get back on board. Not a pretty picture. No it wasn't
an
accident it was a tested conducted at speeds from one to seven knots.
Based
on that days work we came up with the following:

Use short tethers. That coupled to a centered jackline will keep you
from
going over.

Use two tethers in heavy weather. Snap in to the next section of
jackline
before unsnapping the first one. In the worksite use both.

Use snaplinks that are positive locking. The best one's don't come
from
the
marine stores. Go to a store specializing in gear for blue collar
folks.
My personal favorite isWork Wear in Lynwood WA.

Harnesses. The SOSpenders and the stand alone harnesses are neat,
comfortable and do the job PROVIDING they don't pop open. The kind
with
the
buckle that goes through an opening sideways then falls into place is
not
worth the money. On our fullharnesses we use the kind where the chest
and
leg straps are a sturdy belt buckle arrangement or a positive snap link
with
safety release arrangement.

For going aloft or for veryheavy weather I use the industrial kind
withtheleg straps. On these the tether goes in the middle of the back
or
to
two chest rings. For standard work around the boat I had my
comfortable
chest only harness modified with positive snap hooks to ensure it
wouldn't
come undone.

This sort of gear also makes it easy for other crew to get you back on
board
or lower you down from an aloft worksite.

Stay away from the belt only kind for deck or going aloft purposes.
These
are banned from commercial ships anymore. Sudden falls to tether end
save
the sailor from going over but damage the spinal cord severely.

When choosing your gear keep this in mind. No one is going to show up
in
a
few minutes when you are way out there. What you have with you is all
you
have. Tools not Toys. And those who choose to use none of the above
won't
be out to help you either.

M.

Lifelines III
 

joony, are you saying that as a "Special Ed" student *you* didn't make any
Senior trips in high school?

I am sure. You're clearly a mental case. You can claim you've
done or not done this or that, but mostly, you're full of sh*t.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Sure. Whatever you say. I'm sure the people in the mental
hospital really want you back soon.

Why are you sure of that? The only time I have ever seen the inside of a
mental hospital was when the high school senior class was taken to one as
part
of the state's required course work to scare the seniors into not making
babies. That was a VERY long time ago. I can't imagine that anyone would
even
remember I was there even a week later, let alone decades later. In fact,
likely is that most of those people who ran the place are long since dead.

Jonny, do you know something about the inside of mental hospitals you
haven't
told us about?


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jonny, you stupid, clumsy, spastic clod. I have gone forward at night
offshore
to change headsails without a harness or jackline in utter safety.
You,
on the
other hand, would fall overboard.

Yep... it's better to have two (one short and one so you can stand)
for
rough conditions. As you say, jacklines in sections is the ticket.
Also,
don't forget the instruction to the crew. For example, when off shore,
the rule was that you must be hooked on when you exit the cabin at
night. During the day, this is true only in rough weather.

I have the SOSpenders with the integrated harness. Why do you think
a separate system is better?

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I mentioned earlier that the lifeline is only one integral part of
the
system and then included stanchions and Doug brought in the issue of
stanchion bases. Finally we mentioned jacklines. But's thats' not
all
of
it.

A word on harnesses and tethers. Again this is of interest only for
those
who go where they are needed, or those who need them regardless of
where
they go.

Tethers. I was tempted once upon a time to use one long one. Then
I
had
occasion to test what it was like to be dragged alongside a self
steering
boat and try to get back on board. Not a pretty picture. No it
wasn't
an
accident it was a tested conducted at speeds from one to seven
knots.
Based
on that days work we came up with the following:

Use short tethers. That coupled to a centered jackline will keep
you
from
going over.

Use two tethers in heavy weather. Snap in to the next section of
jackline
before unsnapping the first one. In the worksite use both.

Use snaplinks that are positive locking. The best one's don't come
from
the
marine stores. Go to a store specializing in gear for blue collar
folks.
My personal favorite isWork Wear in Lynwood WA.

Harnesses. The SOSpenders and the stand alone harnesses are neat,
comfortable and do the job PROVIDING they don't pop open. The kind
with
the
buckle that goes through an opening sideways then falls into place
is
not
worth the money. On our fullharnesses we use the kind where the
chest
and
leg straps are a sturdy belt buckle arrangement or a positive snap
link
with
safety release arrangement.

For going aloft or for veryheavy weather I use the industrial kind
withtheleg straps. On these the tether goes in the middle of the
back
or
to
two chest rings. For standard work around the boat I had my
comfortable
chest only harness modified with positive snap hooks to ensure it
wouldn't
come undone.

This sort of gear also makes it easy for other crew to get you back
on
board
or lower you down from an aloft worksite.

Stay away from the belt only kind for deck or going aloft purposes.
These
are banned from commercial ships anymore. Sudden falls to tether end
save
the sailor from going over but damage the spinal cord severely.

When choosing your gear keep this in mind. No one is going to show
up
in
a
few minutes when you are way out there. What you have with you is
all
you
have. Tools not Toys. And those who choose to use none of the
above
won't
be out to help you either.

M.

Lifelines III
 

old codger, that is as frikken stew ped (two words) as saying you won't let
people wear sandles walking on a sidewalk because someone somewhere *once*
stubbed their toe.

Keep your thinking more and more limiting as you get older and old, old codger,
and in a few months more you will be limited to sitting in a straight back
chair watching Oprah.


Mich & Jon.

I have an interesting story to tell you about SOS.

I no longer allow anyone wearing them to go forward (Bow Pulpit) to work
on setting sails.

I had a crew member go forward to set the tack on the Assy Spinnaker. He
didn't set his tether to the jack line. He just used it as a hand hold.
As he knelt down to hook the tack, we took water over the bow and into
his lap, inflating his SOS. It pushed his chin up and he couldn't look
down to see the hook for the Tack and was having a hell of a time
locating the Jackline to get back to the mast area.\

The Assy was in a sock and the peak was already hauled up. Poor Bob was
hanging on the the loose end of the "Sock", trying to get hold of the
Jackline. The Jackline going forward gets rather low going to the Bow
Pulpit so the jibs can tack without interference. Bob vision was only
straight ahead. The Mast Man finally made fast the halyard, went down
the jackline, took the loose end of the Sock and sent Bob back to the
mast to give him some slack so he could set the tack.

We don't allow SOS equipped crew forward of the mast any more

Ole Thom

Lifelines III
 

Yes, I'm sure you did. Why are you so stupid though? Even mental
defectives are more intelligent.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
joony, are you saying that as a "Special Ed" student *I* didn't make any
Senior trips in high school?

Lifelines III
 

Instead of not allowing them, why not just insist that people hank on before
going forward. Seems the smart way to go. That's what we'd do.

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Mich & Jon.

I have an interesting story to tell you about SOS.

I no longer allow anyone wearing them to go forward (Bow Pulpit) to work
on setting sails.

I had a crew member go forward to set the tack on the Assy Spinnaker. He
didn't set his tether to the jack line. He just used it as a hand hold.
As he knelt down to hook the tack, we took water over the bow and into
his lap, inflating his SOS. It pushed his chin up and he couldn't look
down to see the hook for the Tack and was having a hell of a time
locating the Jackline to get back to the mast area.\

The Assy was in a sock and the peak was already hauled up. Poor Bob was
hanging on the the loose end of the "Sock", trying to get hold of the
Jackline. The Jackline going forward gets rather low going to the Bow
Pulpit so the jibs can tack without interference. Bob vision was only
straight ahead. The Mast Man finally made fast the halyard, went down
the jackline, took the loose end of the Sock and sent Bob back to the
mast to give him some slack so he could set the tack.

We don't allow SOS equipped crew forward of the mast any more

Ole Thom

Lifelines III
 

"Michael" wrote in message ...
We have them but we don't use them in all circumstances.

Why? They are designed to keep you from breaking your back. Every time
I go aloft and clip on to something I use a dyna break along with a
short 2 foot slack laynard. A double bowland or Swiss seat will not
safely break your fall. We use to test the out of date dynabrakes and
they worked great. No back breaking stopping just a smooth
deceleration as the sewing rips out. Im suprised OSHA and the CFR do
not require dyna brakes.

Joe
MSV RedCloud






We also have JLG
buckets on lifts, spider buckets, manlifts, and a lot of things you can't
find readily on small boats. Myself I prefer the venrable Swiss Seat and a
double bowline. Easy to use, safe, secure, and I trust my own rig. But on
the ship's we use what they tell us to, for CFR and insurances purposes I'm
sure and I haven't found a lot of fault with the equipment. Back to small
boats. The latest thing in NW yachting circles, finally and long overdue,
is a direct crossover from technical climbing gear. I've seen it in three
or four sail and rigging lofts in the last few weeks. Used to be you had to
go to REI to find the equipment.

M.


"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"Michael" wrote


Stay away from the belt only kind for deck or going aloft purposes.
These
are banned from commercial ships anymore. Sudden falls to tether end
save
the sailor from going over but damage the spinal cord severely.


Yes they do, But you would think a professional mariner like you would
mention the use of a dyna brake.


Joe
MSV RedCloud




When choosing your gear keep this in mind. No one is going to show up
in a
few minutes when you are way out there. What you have with you is all
you
have. Tools not Toys. And those who choose to use none of the above
won't
be out to help you either.

M.

Lifelines III
 

Lifelines III
 

OTOH, this guy might still be alive _if_ he'd been wearing one.
http://www.sailnet.com/collections/a...eid=sailne1432
Note the comments from Rousmaniere, who has a little experience sailing in
somewhat adverse conditions.
John Cairns
"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Mich & Jon.

I have an interesting story to tell you about SOS.

I no longer allow anyone wearing them to go forward (Bow Pulpit) to work
on setting sails.
Ole Thom

Lifelines III
 

Anyone foolish enough to not wear a PFD or a harness (when offshore
in bad conditions), can expect nothing less.

"kim cairns" wrote in message
...
OTOH, this guy might still be alive _if_ he'd been wearing one.
http://www.sailnet.com/collections/a...eid=sailne1432
Note the comments from Rousmaniere, who has a little experience sailing in
somewhat adverse conditions.
John Cairns
"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Mich & Jon.

I have an interesting story to tell you about SOS.

I no longer allow anyone wearing them to go forward (Bow Pulpit) to work
on setting sails.
Ole Thom

Lifelines III
 

That happened in Long Island Sound, near Norwalk, I think. Even RB has made it
that far "offshore."


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Anyone foolish enough to not wear a PFD or a harness (when offshore
in bad conditions), can expect nothing less.

"kim cairns" wrote in message
...
OTOH, this guy might still be alive _if_ he'd been wearing one.
http://www.sailnet.com/collections/a...eid=sailne1432
Note the comments from Rousmaniere, who has a little experience sailing in
somewhat adverse conditions.
John Cairns
"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Mich & Jon.

I have an interesting story to tell you about SOS.

I no longer allow anyone wearing them to go forward (Bow Pulpit) to work
on setting sails.
Ole Thom

Lifelines III
 

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
at night, offshore and in utter safety. As much safety as if I were
walking
down 5th Avenue in NYC at 10:00 at night.

Jax, we've seen your photo. We know that you would be safe walking down
5th Avenue in NYC at 10:00 at night.




maybe *you* wouldn't be safe on a deck at night -- offshore OR coastal --,
but
you know your limitations better than we do.

Please don't claim that because *you* can't walk on a deck without falling
off
that the entire rest of the world can't either.

So, you are saying that you are only 5' 5" tall??



Regards


Donal
--

Lifelines III
 

yeah, particularly in flat calm water.

Anyone foolish enough to not wear a PFD or a harness (when offshore
in bad conditions), can expect nothing less.

"kim cairns" wrote in message
...
OTOH, this guy might still be alive _if_ he'd been wearing one.
http://www.sailnet.com/collections/a...eid=sailne1432
Note the comments from Rousmaniere, who has a little experience sailing in
somewhat adverse conditions.
John Cairns
"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Mich & Jon.

I have an interesting story to tell you about SOS.

I no longer allow anyone wearing them to go forward (Bow Pulpit) to work
on setting sails.
Ole Thom

Lifelines III
 

In article , Michael wrote:

I mentioned earlier that the lifeline is only one integral part of the
system and then included stanchions and Doug brought in the issue of
stanchion bases. Finally we mentioned jacklines. But's thats' not all of
it.

A word on harnesses and tethers. Again this is of interest only for those
who go where they are needed, or those who need them regardless of where
they go.

Tethers. I was tempted once upon a time to use one long one. Then I had
occasion to test what it was like to be dragged alongside a self steering
boat and try to get back on board. Not a pretty picture. No it wasn't an
accident it was a tested conducted at speeds from one to seven knots. Based
on that days work we came up with the following:

Use short tethers. That coupled to a centered jackline will keep you from
going over.

Use two tethers in heavy weather. Snap in to the next section of jackline
before unsnapping the first one. In the worksite use both.

Use snaplinks that are positive locking. The best one's don't come from the
marine stores. Go to a store specializing in gear for blue collar folks.
My personal favorite isWork Wear in Lynwood WA.

Harnesses. The SOSpenders and the stand alone harnesses are neat,
comfortable and do the job PROVIDING they don't pop open. The kind with the
buckle that goes through an opening sideways then falls into place is not
worth the money. On our fullharnesses we use the kind where the chest and
leg straps are a sturdy belt buckle arrangement or a positive snap link with
safety release arrangement.

For going aloft or for veryheavy weather I use the industrial kind
withtheleg straps. On these the tether goes in the middle of the back or to
two chest rings. For standard work around the boat I had my comfortable
chest only harness modified with positive snap hooks to ensure it wouldn't
come undone.

This sort of gear also makes it easy for other crew to get you back on board
or lower you down from an aloft worksite.

Stay away from the belt only kind for deck or going aloft purposes. These
are banned from commercial ships anymore. Sudden falls to tether end save
the sailor from going over but damage the spinal cord severely.

When choosing your gear keep this in mind. No one is going to show up in a
few minutes when you are way out there. What you have with you is all you
have. Tools not Toys. And those who choose to use none of the above won't
be out to help you either.

Good post. We use harnesses/tethers as you describe but the harnesses
also have a ring just below the neck, between the shoulder blades. If
you're unconscious in the water, hooking a lifting line here means you
come up head first and hanging reasonably straight. Picking someone up
via a waist ring isn't good.

These harnesses are built in to an auto-inflating pfd.

Every 2 years we practise this stuff in the water. A reminder of why
you don't want to do it for real. Try hooking someone onto a line under
a chopper in hover mode, or dragging an unconscious person into a
liferaft sometime.

Peter Wiley

Lifelines III
 

Kim,

I don't allow my Bow man at the pointy end without a floating device. It
is the self inflating SOSupenders that we don't want up there. It is to
likely to get wet there during a sail change, causing the inflation of
the SOS. A reguler perserver Is what is required now.

Actually on the Wednesday night races, we race in the cruising class (No
flying sails) and the fore deck is kept clear. It is during the long
distance races that we use a Bow man.

Ole Thom

Lifelines III
 

I've been drenched and mine didn't go off. At one point, I noticed that
the pellet partially melted, so I replaced it.

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 16:00:05 -0800 (PST), (Thom
Stewart) scribbled thusly:

Kim,

I don't allow my Bow man at the pointy end without a floating device. It
is the self inflating SOSupenders that we don't want up there. It is to
likely to get wet there during a sail change, causing the inflation of
the SOS. A reguler perserver Is what is required now.

Actually on the Wednesday night races, we race in the cruising class (No
flying sails) and the fore deck is kept clear. It is during the long
distance races that we use a Bow man.

Ole Thom

Thom, I'd be interested to know if the SOS had its seasonal service.
Very unusual IMHO to see one go off onboard that was properly
maintained.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Lifelines III
 

All you show here is inexperience with safe practices, good seamanship, and
you are a hazard to newbies who might mistakenly believe you know what you
are talking about. The practice you have described here is inherently
UNSAFE.
"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
at night, offshore and in utter safety. As much safety as if I were
walking
down 5th Avenue in NYC at 10:00 at night.

maybe *you* wouldn't be safe on a deck at night -- offshore OR coastal --,
but
you know your limitations better than we do.

Please don't claim that because *you* can't walk on a deck without falling
off
that the entire rest of the world can't either.

From: "The Carrolls"

At night, offshore? No you haven't, you may have been lucky but not
using
safe practices, there fore not in utter safety.
"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jonny, you stupid, clumsy, spastic clod. I have gone forward at night
offshore
to change headsails without a harness or jackline in utter safety.
You,
on the
other hand, would fall overboard.

Yep... it's better to have two (one short and one so you can stand)
for
rough conditions. As you say, jacklines in sections is the ticket.
Also,
don't forget the instruction to the crew. For example, when off shore,
the rule was that you must be hooked on when you exit the cabin at
night. During the day, this is true only in rough weather.

I have the SOSpenders with the integrated harness. Why do you think
a separate system is better?

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I mentioned earlier that the lifeline is only one integral part of
the
system and then included stanchions and Doug brought in the issue of
stanchion bases. Finally we mentioned jacklines. But's thats' not
all
of
it.

A word on harnesses and tethers. Again this is of interest only for
those
who go where they are needed, or those who need them regardless of
where
they go.

Tethers. I was tempted once upon a time to use one long one. Then
I
had
occasion to test what it was like to be dragged alongside a self
steering
boat and try to get back on board. Not a pretty picture. No it
wasn't
an
accident it was a tested conducted at speeds from one to seven
knots.
Based
on that days work we came up with the following:

Use short tethers. That coupled to a centered jackline will keep
you
from
going over.

Use two tethers in heavy weather. Snap in to the next section of
jackline
before unsnapping the first one. In the worksite use both.

Use snaplinks that are positive locking. The best one's don't come
from
the
marine stores. Go to a store specializing in gear for blue collar
folks.
My personal favorite isWork Wear in Lynwood WA.

Harnesses. The SOSpenders and the stand alone harnesses are neat,
comfortable and do the job PROVIDING they don't pop open. The kind
with
the
buckle that goes through an opening sideways then falls into place
is
not
worth the money. On our fullharnesses we use the kind where the
chest
and
leg straps are a sturdy belt buckle arrangement or a positive snap
link
with
safety release arrangement.

For going aloft or for veryheavy weather I use the industrial kind
withtheleg straps. On these the tether goes in the middle of the
back
or
to
two chest rings. For standard work around the boat I had my
comfortable
chest only harness modified with positive snap hooks to ensure it
wouldn't
come undone.

This sort of gear also makes it easy for other crew to get you back
on
board
or lower you down from an aloft worksite.

Stay away from the belt only kind for deck or going aloft purposes.
These
are banned from commercial ships anymore. Sudden falls to tether end
save
the sailor from going over but damage the spinal cord severely.

When choosing your gear keep this in mind. No one is going to show
up
in
a
few minutes when you are way out there. What you have with you is
all
you
have. Tools not Toys. And those who choose to use none of the
above
won't
be out to help you either.

M.

Lifelines III
 

Off shore at night? Give me a break.
OzOne wrote in message ...
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:48:20 -0500, "The Carrolls"
scribbled thusly:

All you show here is inexperience with safe practices, good seamanship,
and
you are a hazard to newbies who might mistakenly believe you know what
you
are talking about. The practice you have described here is inherently
UNSAFE.

Hmm, I think you're getting a tad uptight here.
It's perfectly safe on deck at night in relatively calm conditions
without a harness providing you have others on deck.
Personally, I never leave a cockpit underway at night without a
strobe.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Lifelines III
 

If you are trying to tell me that offshore and at night foreward with no
attachment to the boat is a safe practice reguardless of sea conditions, you
are fool hardy. I don't always use a lifejacket when sailing, but I will
never tell any one that is a safe practice(no jacket). I am a tinsmith, I
work setting decking on high steel buildings, I am certianly able to walk
things such as a boat deck with out falling, most of the time, I have
slipped in bothbuilding steel and boat decks. Accidents and unforseen
circumstances happen. yes, I have been foreward too at night with no
attachment or jacket, BUT, I would never call it a safe practice on a small
vessel underway. Drop into the calm and come up under that small swell
dropping the boat, on your head. Hit something unseen in the water, either
with the boat or your head, and you have a problem. We have no business
telling a new person to our sport that it is a practice they should be
comefortable with, let them find out for themselves.
OzOne wrote in message ...
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:56:15 -0500, "The Carrolls"
scribbled thusly:

Off shore at night? Give me a break.

Yep, offshore at night!
Chances of you dropping off in calm conditions is virtually zero, and
in the extremly unlikely event the strobe will give you that added
safety.

Hell, I've swum in the middle of the Pacific Ocean while underway,
hundreds of miles from land. Jumped off, a couple of laps around the
boat to exercise and refresh then climbed back on again.


OzOne wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:48:20 -0500, "The Carrolls"
scribbled thusly:

All you show here is inexperience with safe practices, good
seamanship,
and
you are a hazard to newbies who might mistakenly believe you know what
you
are talking about. The practice you have described here is inherently
UNSAFE.

Hmm, I think you're getting a tad uptight here.
It's perfectly safe on deck at night in relatively calm conditions
without a harness providing you have others on deck.
Personally, I never leave a cockpit underway at night without a
strobe.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.




Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Lifelines III
 

Oz,

The SOS was in its 1st season. Maybe 2 month in use. Not blaming the
SOS. It did what it was suppose to do We took a wave over the Bow, just
setting up and getting ready to turn down wind. Bow man took enough
water to set off the Auto inflater. The rest of us stayed dry behind the
pilothouse.

The mast man seen it coming and stepped up on the PH roof. He was the
one who save the day. Set the tack as we turned. came Aft with sheet and
Bow man turned Mast man raised the sleeve.

Bob had to release air to drink hot Choc. on long run home.

No one hurt and we still laugh about it. Bow man uses a regular vest
now. Actually I do believe "Pnuema" racing days are over. The Old Fart
has kind of out grown it

Ole Thom

Lifelines III
 

Don't forget your giving me loose foot lessons this summer! Racing not
required. I'm buying the oyster sandwiches next time too!

Cheers

M.


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Oz,

The SOS was in its 1st season. Maybe 2 month in use. Not blaming the
SOS. It did what it was suppose to do We took a wave over the Bow, just
setting up and getting ready to turn down wind. Bow man took enough
water to set off the Auto inflater. The rest of us stayed dry behind the
pilothouse.

The mast man seen it coming and stepped up on the PH roof. He was the
one who save the day. Set the tack as we turned. came Aft with sheet and
Bow man turned Mast man raised the sleeve.

Bob had to release air to drink hot Choc. on long run home.

No one hurt and we still laugh about it. Bow man uses a regular vest
now. Actually I do believe "Pnuema" racing days are over. The Old Fart
has kind of out grown it

Ole Thom

Lifelines III
 

Right, a time and place, and at night and offshore is a place for
attachment. No one said any thing about a person in the cockpit, only going
forward in the dark. When we started this point, jax said nothing about calm
weather either. Have you slipped at the dock? Don't tell me there haven't
been times when you have grabbed a shroud or stay to catch your self, even
in calm weather, say catching another boat's wake, perhaps one you didn't
see? I was just reading an article in lattitudes and Attitudes on rogue
waves, they can come at any time.
OzOne wrote in message ...
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 00:58:38 -0500, "The Carrolls"
scribbled thusly:

If you are trying to tell me that offshore and at night foreward with no
attachment to the boat is a safe practice reguardless of sea conditions,
you
are fool hardy. I don't always use a lifejacket when sailing, but I will
never tell any one that is a safe practice(no jacket). I am a tinsmith, I
work setting decking on high steel buildings, I am certianly able to
walk
things such as a boat deck with out falling, most of the time, I have
slipped in bothbuilding steel and boat decks. Accidents and unforseen
circumstances happen. yes, I have been foreward too at night with no
attachment or jacket, BUT, I would never call it a safe practice on a
small
vessel underway. Drop into the calm and come up under that small swell
dropping the boat, on your head. Hit something unseen in the water,
either
with the boat or your head, and you have a problem. We have no business
telling a new person to our sport that it is a practice they should be
comefortable with, let them find out for themselves.

Yep, offshore forward in calm conditions at night is perfectly safe
provided you don't have sleepy heads in the cockpit.

Honestly the chances are much better that you'll be hit by a London
bus in NYC crossing the road under a full moon.

I'd never say it's 100% safe, nothing is.
I've had two harnesses fail in heavy weather when I've dropped off and
am very very lucky to be alive. I don't put the faith in them that
many do and use the same caution with and without.

We wear lifejackets in the Etchells when racing in moderate breeze and
my bow uses a harness when it gets real big. I wouldn't ever dismiss
the extra safety of a harness but there is a time and place for
everything.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Lifelines III
 

dum-dum, you know *your* limitations, i.e. that *you* are unsafe walking on a
flat deck in calm conditions without falling off, but your ego is such that you
insist the rest of the world has the very same limitations. The rest of the
world does not. Sorry to tell you this, but the fact that you can't ride a
bicycle no handed does not in any way change the fact that millions of children
learn to do so every year.

There is nothing inherently dangerous about the foredeck on a boat. There is
only dangerous walking on the foredeck. There are times when it is a piece of
cake and other times when caution is required. That *you* can't tell the
difference is not my limitation.

All you show here is inexperience with safe practices, good seamanship, and
you are a hazard to newbies who might mistakenly believe you know what you
are talking about. The practice you have described here is inherently
UNSAFE.
"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
at night, offshore and in utter safety. As much safety as if I were
walking
down 5th Avenue in NYC at 10:00 at night.

maybe *you* wouldn't be safe on a deck at night -- offshore OR coastal --,
but
you know your limitations better than we do.

Please don't claim that because *you* can't walk on a deck without falling
off
that the entire rest of the world can't either.

From: "The Carrolls"

At night, offshore? No you haven't, you may have been lucky but not
using
safe practices, there fore not in utter safety.
"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jonny, you stupid, clumsy, spastic clod. I have gone forward at night
offshore
to change headsails without a harness or jackline in utter safety.
You,
on the
other hand, would fall overboard.

Yep... it's better to have two (one short and one so you can stand)
for
rough conditions. As you say, jacklines in sections is the ticket.
Also,
don't forget the instruction to the crew. For example, when off shore,
the rule was that you must be hooked on when you exit the cabin at
night. During the day, this is true only in rough weather.

I have the SOSpenders with the integrated harness. Why do you think
a separate system is better?

"Michael" wrote in message
...
I mentioned earlier that the lifeline is only one integral part of
the
system and then included stanchions and Doug brought in the issue of
stanchion bases. Finally we mentioned jacklines. But's thats' not
all
of
it.

A word on harnesses and tethers. Again this is of interest only for
those
who go where they are needed, or those who need them regardless of
where
they go.

Tethers. I was tempted once upon a time to use one long one. Then
I
had
occasion to test what it was like to be dragged alongside a self
steering
boat and try to get back on board. Not a pretty picture. No it
wasn't
an
accident it was a tested conducted at speeds from one to seven
knots.
Based
on that days work we came up with the following:

Use short tethers. That coupled to a centered jackline will keep
you
from
going over.

Use two tethers in heavy weather. Snap in to the next section of
jackline
before unsnapping the first one. In the worksite use both.

Use snaplinks that are positive locking. The best one's don't come
from
the
marine stores. Go to a store specializing in gear for blue collar
folks.
My personal favorite isWork Wear in Lynwood WA.

Harnesses. The SOSpenders and the stand alone harnesses are neat,
comfortable and do the job PROVIDING they don't pop open. The kind
with
the
buckle that goes through an opening sideways then falls into place
is
not
worth the money. On our fullharnesses we use the kind where the
chest
and
leg straps are a sturdy belt buckle arrangement or a positive snap
link
with
safety release arrangement.

For going aloft or for veryheavy weather I use the industrial kind
withtheleg straps. On these the tether goes in the middle of the
back
or
to
two chest rings. For standard work around the boat I had my
comfortable
chest only harness modified with positive snap hooks to ensure it
wouldn't
come undone.

This sort of gear also makes it easy for other crew to get you back
on
board
or lower you down from an aloft worksite.

Stay away from the belt only kind for deck or going aloft purposes.
These
are banned from commercial ships anymore. Sudden falls to tether end
save
the sailor from going over but damage the spinal cord severely.

When choosing your gear keep this in mind. No one is going to show
up
in
a
few minutes when you are way out there. What you have with you is
all
you
have. Tools not Toys. And those who choose to use none of the
above
won't
be out to help you either.

M.

Lifelines III
 

Off shore at night? Give me a break.

*your* limitation is NOT the limitation of the world.

Lifelines III
 

BOO!!

If you are trying to tell me that offshore and at night foreward with no
attachment to the boat is a safe practice reguardless of sea conditions, you
are fool hardy. I don't always use a lifejacket when sailing, but I will
never tell any one that is a safe practice(no jacket). I am a tinsmith, I
work setting decking on high steel buildings, I am certianly able to walk
things such as a boat deck with out falling, most of the time, I have
slipped in bothbuilding steel and boat decks. Accidents and unforseen
circumstances happen. yes, I have been foreward too at night with no
attachment or jacket, BUT, I would never call it a safe practice on a small
vessel underway. Drop into the calm and come up under that small swell
dropping the boat, on your head. Hit something unseen in the water, either
with the boat or your head, and you have a problem. We have no business
telling a new person to our sport that it is a practice they should be
comefortable with, let them find out for themselves.
OzOne wrote in message ...
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 22:56:15 -0500, "The Carrolls"
scribbled thusly:

Off shore at night? Give me a break.

Yep, offshore at night!
Chances of you dropping off in calm conditions is virtually zero, and
in the extremly unlikely event the strobe will give you that added
safety.

Hell, I've swum in the middle of the Pacific Ocean while underway,
hundreds of miles from land. Jumped off, a couple of laps around the
boat to exercise and refresh then climbed back on again.


OzOne wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:48:20 -0500, "The Carrolls"
scribbled thusly:

All you show here is inexperience with safe practices, good
seamanship,
and
you are a hazard to newbies who might mistakenly believe you know what
you
are talking about. The practice you have described here is inherently
UNSAFE.

Hmm, I think you're getting a tad uptight here.
It's perfectly safe on deck at night in relatively calm conditions
without a harness providing you have others on deck.
Personally, I never leave a cockpit underway at night without a
strobe.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.




Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.