Hal Roth reportedly used a Radio Shack transistor AM radio and commercial radio
stations to navigate, and Hal Roth is just over 80 now.

but yes, by the 1960's RDF through commercial AM radio stations was less
accurate that purpose-build, accurately placed AM nav radio stations.

I believe Loran-A dates from the late 1940's.

Although I can't speak for the years prior to the 1960's, no self
respecting navigator I knew after that time would use any AM radio
station for navigation, unless all else failed.
Two major problems .... the signal could be "bent" traveling over land,
then water (hence the reason most marine RDF stations were at
lighthouses, or close to the shore) and the locations of the radio
towers for AM stations were not always on the charts in use or denoted
(I don't have a 117 here to see if some may have been listed).
Also, I'm not sure, but I think the calibration error on the particular
Shipboard RDF, was done for the relatively narrow band used by RDF
stations (not necessarily true throughout the history of RDF).

otn

JAXAshby wrote:
I was writing of your plain vanilla AM radio stations, such as KRLA, KSTP,
WCCO, WABC, etc. Marine RDF stations were stations operated (by I believe
in
the US by the CG and FAA) specifically for ships at sea and later aircraft.

Best of my knowledge marine RDF stations operated in th same frequency
range as
commercial AM radio stations.


Are you talking about radio stations such as ABC in New York, or Marine
Radio Beacons?
Marine Radio Beacons are a different animal, though agreeably obsolete.
However, they are still (RDF) to be found on ships.

otn

"otnmbrd" wrote in message
news


JAXAshby wrote:
So, do you think the radio stations also did that during WWII? I'd hate to
think that there were German subs getting lost at Coney Island!



I don't know if radio regs changed in WWII, but if they did if probably
would
not have been because of German submarines. Radio waves don't penetrate
water
more than about two inches. I do know at least one German sub was sunk in
the
Potomac and one or many more in Long Island Sound. I don't know that any
German subs fired on the US mainland. Do know that at least one Japanese
sub
fired on Seattle, with little damage.


ROFLMAO Where do you find this stuff?

I really like the bit about how subs wouldn't use radio because it can't
penetrate water! As if u-boats actually traveled underwater!

JAXAshby wrote:
Hal Roth reportedly used a Radio Shack transistor AM radio and commercial radio
stations to navigate, and Hal Roth is just over 80 now.

Not sure how his present age relates, but certainly people have used
commercial radio stations (done it myself.....all else had failed) but
it is not recommended as a normal practice.

but yes, by the 1960's RDF through commercial AM radio stations was less
accurate that purpose-build, accurately placed AM nav radio stations.

As it was before that time.

I believe Loran-A dates from the late 1940's.

I believe you'll find that LORAN was actually a WWII thingy, initially
employed to guide bombers in the European theater.
As used,(in the Marine environment) it was an excellent tool, although
it had problems in the Gulf of Mexico, until the advent of Loran C. It
used a set of functions which required readings from an oscilloscope
type screen to come up with the TD's.
LOL Sheesh, talk about dating oneself.

otn

On 24 Feb 2004 23:16:34 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

it is rather sad that you are so "afflicted" as Bob Perry aptly
described you.

well, felton, and just how many times has Bob Perry asked *you* for technical
advice, eh?

Are you referring to the math question he put to you on the CWBB last
week? I believe you ran and hid and never provided an answer. It
simply reinforced my observations. You beat people over the head with
generalizations but never actually deal with specifics. When your
generalizations are questioned, you retreat further into your own ass.
Once the pattern revealed itself, it is really rather boring.


felton, you are too dumb to hold a meaningful discussion with. You sound like
someone who will go catatonic and hide in corner when the waves start to
approach white caps and the winds approach 12 knots.

Don't worry. You would never be invited aboard to witness it

Jeff,

After the Japs flew into Pearl Harbor using the radio waves they went to
a shifting broadcast network on all American radio

OT

JAXAshby wrote:
old fart, Fort Schuyler is not on City Island, and neither is the MMA, which is
not the same as King's Point, which is across the bay from the MMA.

Geezus, Jax, it was nice here when you were away in rehab ... go back
would you.

The Merchant Marine Academy, the USMMA, is at King's Point. So unless
you pull a Jax and claim MMA doesn't mean Merchant Marine Academy in
JaxWorld, you have once again shown yourself to be a complete friggin'
moron.

Rick

ricky sluggs, old fart was refering to SUNY and I used his nomenclature to be
consistent.

or perhaps, you like old fart, think that SUNY and KP are the same and both are
on City Island?

JAXAshby wrote:
old fart, Fort Schuyler is not on City Island, and neither is the MMA,
which is
not the same as King's Point, which is across the bay from the MMA.

Geezus, Jax, it was nice here when you were away in rehab ... go back
would you.

The Merchant Marine Academy, the USMMA, is at King's Point. So unless
you pull a Jax and claim MMA doesn't mean Merchant Marine Academy in
JaxWorld, you have once again shown yourself to be a complete friggin'
moron.

Rick

Actually, I always thought MMA was either Mass Maritime Academy or Maine
Maritime Academy, neither of which are in New York.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ricky sluggs, old fart was refering to SUNY and I used his nomenclature to be
consistent.

or perhaps, you like old fart, think that SUNY and KP are the same and both
are
on City Island?

JAXAshby wrote:
old fart, Fort Schuyler is not on City Island, and neither is the MMA,
which is
not the same as King's Point, which is across the bay from the MMA.

Geezus, Jax, it was nice here when you were away in rehab ... go back
would you.

The Merchant Marine Academy, the USMMA, is at King's Point. So unless
you pull a Jax and claim MMA doesn't mean Merchant Marine Academy in
JaxWorld, you have once again shown yourself to be a complete friggin'
moron.

Rick

SUNY Maritime is in the Bronx, underneath the Throg's Neck Bridge. The US
Merchant Marine Academy is in Kings Point across the bay. Each is several
miles from City Island.

Actually, I always thought MMA was either Mass Maritime Academy or Maine
Maritime Academy, neither of which are in New York.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ricky sluggs, old fart was refering to SUNY and I used his nomenclature to
be
consistent.

or perhaps, you like old fart, think that SUNY and KP are the same and both
are
on City Island?

JAXAshby wrote:
old fart, Fort Schuyler is not on City Island, and neither is the MMA,
which is
not the same as King's Point, which is across the bay from the MMA.

Geezus, Jax, it was nice here when you were away in rehab ... go back
would you.

The Merchant Marine Academy, the USMMA, is at King's Point. So unless
you pull a Jax and claim MMA doesn't mean Merchant Marine Academy in
JaxWorld, you have once again shown yourself to be a complete friggin'
moron.

Rick

Rick,

There are Merchant Marine Academies all over the country. There are TWO
on LI Sound. One is the United States Merchant Marine academy (Federal)
located a Kings Point, on Long Island, N.Y. On City Island at Fort
Schuylar is the New York State Merchant Marine Academy. It is a part of
SUNY.(STATE UNIVERSITY of NEW YORK)

I only mentioned it as another school that teachers Lunar Time

Jax came up with the question of the Location. I know in 1947 I played
baseball at the NYSMMA when I attended Long Island A&T, now called
Farmingdale State. It was on City Island at Fort Schuylar. Jax says it
isn't so. HE IS WRONG AGAIN

By the way, there is a great Rivalry between the two Academies. The
NYSMMA has a training ship, the EMPIRE STATE which takes Cadets to sea
every summer. Its departure is a rather large affair with families on
the dock to bid their boys farewell.

The EMPIRE STATE usually ties up Port side to the dock. When it leave it
makes 180 turn an heads out the Sound for the Summer Session. There was
this time when the Cadet from the US MMA, in the still of the nite,
painted "**** YOU MOM" on the Starboard side. When she left and made the
turn her Starboard side came into view to all the well wisher on the
Dock!

Ole Thom