Joe wrote:

un-grounding

Good one... although it's a good idea to remember that sucking a lot of dirt into
the cooling water loop is not good.


RIATM

???



When not to: When you can do everything you need to do with wind and sail alone
When you remember that you just spent close to 500 dollars fueling up.

Damn Joe, how much fuel tankage does your boat have? Ours barely holds half that
much, and we can go to the Bahamas and back on it.....

DSK

Doug,

I was thinking the same about Joe's fuel load. I get 1200 miles on my
twenty gallon tank. Then I got to thinking about his Motor Sailor. He
can probably motor faster than both of us when he wants, I'm just
turning a 18 HP diesel.

Another reason for running my engine is when I'm using the Micro wave
Oven off the inverter. I need the fifty amp charging.

Ole Thom

bull****! Brand spanking new diesels under manufactures laboratory conditions
have a specific fuel consumption of just under 17 hp for each gallon burned per
hour.

That would mean you make 1,200 frickken miles in 20 hours, or 60 knots.

Even if you turn you engine at just 4 hp (fuel consumption per hp goes up then)
you would stil have only 80 hours fuel onboard, making your 1,200 on a tank of
fuel *average* about 15 knots.

Which means (if one is to accept the badly flawed concept of "hull speed) your
boat's waterline to be about 120 feet, even as its displacement is about 3
ounces.

Doug,

I was thinking the same about Joe's fuel load. I get 1200 miles on my
twenty gallon tank. Then I got to thinking about his Motor Sailor. He
can probably motor faster than both of us when he wants, I'm just
turning a 18 HP diesel.

Another reason for running my engine is when I'm using the Micro wave
Oven off the inverter. I need the fifty amp charging.

Ole Thom

DSK wrote in message ...
Joe wrote:

un-grounding

Good one... although it's a good idea to remember that sucking a lot of dirt into
the cooling water loop is not good.

Thats what your strainers are for! And I have a English style greaser
system not a cutlass bearing. Popular in England were the sand in the
canals whipe out cutlass bearing in no time



RIATM

Restricted in ability to manuaver

???



When not to: When you can do everything you need to do with wind and sail alone
When you remember that you just spent close to 500 dollars fueling up.

Damn Joe, how much fuel tankage does your boat have? Ours barely holds half that
much, and we can go to the Bahamas and back on it.....

That was a couple weeks ago and I did not shop around for fuel so had
to pay 1.47 a gallon. We hold 350 gallons fuel, 150 fresh water, 55
waste. And a emergency water tank I just installed in the engine room,
it's another 40 gallons.

Im going to have to replace the water tanks soon and do not look
forward to the project. I may just cut the tops off and install
bladders. At least Ill have a good excuse to re-model the counters
since Im going to have to remove/destroy them.

Joe

We can motersail from NY to London and have plenty to spare, with the
gen set running the whole time. I was low on fuel from last summers
Regetta and lots of local bay sailing and motering up and down the
ICW.

Burn about a gallon an hour max moter sailing at 8 kts in a 10 kt
wind with a 40 amp load on the genset. Less with more wind.


Joe



DSK

strainers don't do a real good job of keeping silt out.

Joe wrote:

un-grounding

Good one... although it's a good idea to remember that sucking a lot of
dirt into
the cooling water loop is not good.

Thats what your strainers are for! And I have a English style greaser
system not a cutlass bearing. Popular in England were the sand in the
canals whipe out cutlass bearing in no time



RIATM

Restricted in ability to manuaver

???



When not to: When you can do everything you need to do with wind and sail
alone
When you remember that you just spent close to 500 dollars fueling up.

Damn Joe, how much fuel tankage does your boat have? Ours barely holds half
that
much, and we can go to the Bahamas and back on it.....

That was a couple weeks ago and I did not shop around for fuel so had
to pay 1.47 a gallon. We hold 350 gallons fuel, 150 fresh water, 55
waste. And a emergency water tank I just installed in the engine room,
it's another 40 gallons.

Im going to have to replace the water tanks soon and do not look
forward to the project. I may just cut the tops off and install
bladders. At least Ill have a good excuse to re-model the counters
since Im going to have to remove/destroy them.

Joe

We can motersail from NY to London and have plenty to spare, with the
gen set running the whole time. I was low on fuel from last summers
Regetta and lots of local bay sailing and motering up and down the
ICW.

Burn about a gallon an hour max moter sailing at 8 kts in a 10 kt
wind with a 40 amp load on the genset. Less with more wind.


Joe



DSK

DSK wrote in message ...
Joe wrote:

un-grounding

Good one... although snip

You do understand that when I say un-grounding I do mean Im pulling
another vessel usually a fin boat off an oyster reef or something dont
you?. Thats why I'm printing out no cure no pay contracts.
Powerboaters will pay dearly!
Ive got a 200 ft 1&3/4" towing hauser in the lazeret.

Joe








RIATM

???



When not to: When you can do everything you need to do with wind and sail alone
When you remember that you just spent close to 500 dollars fueling up.

Damn Joe, how much fuel tankage does your boat have? Ours barely holds half that
much, and we can go to the Bahamas and back on it.....

DSK

Joe wrote:

You do understand that when I say un-grounding I do mean Im pulling
another vessel usually a fin boat off an oyster reef or something dont
you?. Thats why I'm printing out no cure no pay contracts.
Powerboaters will pay dearly!
Ive got a 200 ft 1&3/4" towing hauser in the lazeret.

Why so big? Most boats won't be able to get that around a cleat. Besides, you shouldn't
need a breaking strength over 6 tons to pull a stuck boat.

I had in mind using the engine to back off a sandbar or mud bank, in the first few moments
after running aground. Prompt action is key... usually after a few minutes, the wind,
waves, and/or current, plus the working action of the weight of the boat against the
bottom, digs the thing in so much that stronger measures are called for.

One reason why a fixed 3 blade prop is nice for boats running the ICW... not only do you
motor a lot in the ditch, it's got much more bounce to the ounce when trying to back off a
shoal.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote in message ...
Joe wrote:

You do understand that when I say un-grounding I do mean Im pulling
another vessel usually a fin boat off an oyster reef or something dont
you?. Thats why I'm printing out no cure no pay contracts.
Powerboaters will pay dearly!
Ive got a 200 ft 1&3/4" towing hauser in the lazeret.

Why so big? Most boats won't be able to get that around a cleat. Besides, you shouldn't
need a breaking strength over 6 tons to pull a stuck boat.

Well I have a padeye to shackle it to no my boat both fore and aft.
I'm not to concerned about tearing someone elses cleats off. Most the
boats I pulled off use smaller line that they have and just thread it
thru the thimble. Usually after the Harvest moon regetta we take the
ICW back along with several hundred other sailboats, its about a 250
mile trip and we average pulling 3-4 boats off a year. I usually do it
for free, but had a couple were I had to use the heaving gun so I
charge them 50 dollars for a new line.

I had in mind using the engine to back off a sandbar or mud bank, in the first few moments
after running aground. Prompt action is key... usually after a few minutes, the wind,
waves, and/or current, plus the working action of the weight of the boat against the
bottom, digs the thing in so much that stronger measures are called for.

One reason why a fixed 3 blade prop is nice for boats running the ICW... not only do you
motor a lot in the ditch, it's got much more bounce to the ounce when trying to back off a
shoal.


We have a 3 blade 24 square. Ive only had to kedge off twice.

Joe
MSV RedCloud


Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Michael wrote:

1 When to use them: In an out of harbors obvously.

Not necessarily. It greatly depends on the harbor, the wind & tide, the traffic,
the boat, the skipper, etc etc.

Usually my consideration is wind & tide, and traffic. Sailing around in
unfavorable currents, light & flukey winds, and playing stoop-tag with
freighters is not good.


In narrow fairways and rivers or canals.

The C&D canal and the Cape Cod canal both forbid sailing through. I've been told
they are both equipped with spy cameras nowadays for enforcement. In times past
I have cheated and sailed through....



When the speed of sailing is not sufficient to the arrival
goal, unless you are a purist which I'm not.

Trying to cruise under sail and keep a schedule is stupid. It can be dangerous
too. Adds stress. Worse than motoring IMHO.


When caught in the doldrums.

Or trapped by bad priorities, having chosen a boat that sails like Grandpa's
barn.



When water is low or you have an emergency on board.

Agreed.

Here's one trick.
Sail Motoring as opposed to Motor Sailing. When you can't go in the right
direction due to the winds running the prop at slow rpms enhances the
ability of the boat to point high by 10 to 20 additional degrees. (Variable
as to hull and conditions). If that will get you through a narrow passage
between islands so be it.

How would you define the difference between Motor Sailing and Sail Motoring?
Just curious.


When on delivery jobs with a deadline to meet.

Agreed. But I don't do that any more (tentatively, a friend has asked me to help
with a delivery this spring)


When getting out of the way of or handling the presence of a storm
condition.

Disagree here... although there may some situations like this, such as getting
out of the danger quadrant in the calm before the storm. But most boats should
sail well enough that this is unnecessary.


When you need electricity to listen to the NBA, NFL, America's
Cup or World Cup finals.

Your battery bank is too small.



3. Add your own reasons.

You forgot running bridges. In many places it is against the rules to sail
through open bridges.

Now that we cruise in a tugboat, it's really not a question. But we can get to
anchorages quicker and set up the windsurfers or sailing dink sooner

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Motor Sailing is when the Sail assists the motor and Sail Motoring is when
the Motor Assists the sail. I made all that up just now though. The only
source you can refer to is me.

M.

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Michael wrote:

1 When to use them: In an out of harbors obvously.

Not necessarily. It greatly depends on the harbor, the wind & tide, the
traffic,
the boat, the skipper, etc etc.

Usually my consideration is wind & tide, and traffic. Sailing around in
unfavorable currents, light & flukey winds, and playing stoop-tag with
freighters is not good.


In narrow fairways and rivers or canals.

The C&D canal and the Cape Cod canal both forbid sailing through. I've
been told
they are both equipped with spy cameras nowadays for enforcement. In times
past
I have cheated and sailed through....



When the speed of sailing is not sufficient to the arrival
goal, unless you are a purist which I'm not.

Trying to cruise under sail and keep a schedule is stupid. It can be
dangerous
too. Adds stress. Worse than motoring IMHO.


When caught in the doldrums.

Or trapped by bad priorities, having chosen a boat that sails like
Grandpa's
barn.



When water is low or you have an emergency on board.

Agreed.

Here's one trick.
Sail Motoring as opposed to Motor Sailing. When you can't go in the
right
direction due to the winds running the prop at slow rpms enhances the
ability of the boat to point high by 10 to 20 additional degrees.
(Variable
as to hull and conditions). If that will get you through a narrow
passage
between islands so be it.

How would you define the difference between Motor Sailing and Sail
Motoring?
Just curious.


When on delivery jobs with a deadline to meet.

Agreed. But I don't do that any more (tentatively, a friend has asked me
to help
with a delivery this spring)


When getting out of the way of or handling the presence of a storm
condition.

Disagree here... although there may some situations like this, such as
getting
out of the danger quadrant in the calm before the storm. But most boats
should
sail well enough that this is unnecessary.


When you need electricity to listen to the NBA, NFL, America's
Cup or World Cup finals.

Your battery bank is too small.



3. Add your own reasons.

You forgot running bridges. In many places it is against the rules to sail
through open bridges.

Now that we cruise in a tugboat, it's really not a question. But we can
get to
anchorages quicker and set up the windsurfers or sailing dink sooner

Fresh Breezes- Doug King