It won't do any good, blubber boys' 'fish-finder' will always be pointing to
him.

There is no bigger Sucker.

SV

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
You should find out if your boat was cored - I would guess yes because
Hinterhoeller seemed to like that. However, they would have put some
"hard
spots" in just for mounting sensors.


"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
I don't know if this setup would work for
you. My hull is not cored, but I believe yours is.


I think my hull is only cored above the Water line. Maybe I'll give it a
try.

RB

The electrolysis will be ghastly. That unit uses the bronze casing as
electrical ground for the transducer and also attempts to isolate it from
battery ground noise by some filtering circuitry. The case ground and
battery ground will not be at the same potential and will cause floating
ground electrolysis.
Use a transducer that sends through the hull.

RB




"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...

I'm thinking of adding a Ray 365 Fishfinder to Alien. I can get one new
with a
bronze thu-hull for 169.00.
It does speed, temp and depth, but the bronze thru hull protrudes from the
hull
with the fairing block and that sort of bugs me. It's a great deal
though...
Comments??

RB

Rubbish.

Cheers

Bobsprit wrote:
The electrolysis will be ghastly. That unit uses the bronze casing as
electrical ground for the transducer and also attempts to isolate it from
battery ground noise by some filtering circuitry. The case ground and
battery ground will not be at the same potential and will cause floating
ground electrolysis.
Use a transducer that sends through the hull.

RB




"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...

I'm thinking of adding a Ray 365 Fishfinder to Alien. I can get one new

with a

bronze thu-hull for 169.00.
It does speed, temp and depth, but the bronze thru hull protrudes from the

hull

with the fairing block and that sort of bugs me. It's a great deal

though...

Comments??

RB

This can't be bob... too intelligent sounding.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
news
The electrolysis will be ghastly. That unit uses the bronze casing as
electrical ground for the transducer and also attempts to isolate it from
battery ground noise by some filtering circuitry. The case ground and
battery ground will not be at the same potential and will cause floating
ground electrolysis.
Use a transducer that sends through the hull.

RB




"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...

I'm thinking of adding a Ray 365 Fishfinder to Alien. I can get one new
with a
bronze thu-hull for 169.00.
It does speed, temp and depth, but the bronze thru hull protrudes from
the
hull
with the fairing block and that sort of bugs me. It's a great deal
though...
Comments??

RB

This can't be bob... too intelligent sounding.


Gayanzy exposes himself again! He thinks the post was on target!

Bwahahahahhahahaaha!

RB

At least you admit that you're the WINNER when it comes
to being stupid!

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
This can't be bob... too intelligent sounding.


Gayanzy exposes himself again! He thinks the post was on target!

Bwahahahahhahahaaha!

RB

Gayanzy wrote...

At least you admit that you're the WINNER when it comes
to proving I'm stupid!


Yup!

RB

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...

At least you admit that you're the WINNER when it comes
to proving I'm stupid!


Yup!

RB

"MC" wrote in message
...
Rubbish.


Tips on
Electrical System Use and Maintenance
Part II: High Voltage (AC) Systems
by David H. Pascoe, Marine surveyor
Full Article

High Voltage (AC) Systems

Contents

Part II

High Voltage(AC) Systems

Grounds and Grounding

Bonding Systems

Your Bottom Paint

Electrolysis and Galvanism

Shore Power Cords

Polarity

Main Circuit Protection

Circuit Breakers

Chronic Breaker Popping

GFCI's

with 0 photos

Go To Part I

Introduction
with 2 photos

Part III

DC Systems
with 6 photos

Part IV

Adding Electrical Equipment
with one photo



No one who is not trained in marine high voltage systems should ever perform
wiring on a boat. The potential for creating deadly system faults that are
injurious to both people and the vessel itself is too risky. That includes
something as apparently simple as wiring a new service outlet, for if you
don't understand the principles of the system, you are likely to unknowingly
create a problem. Just because you know how to do wiring around the house,
doesn't mean you know what you're doing on a boat.

Grounds and Grounding
One of the least understood aspects of a boats electrical system, and the
most troublesome, is the proper method of grounding. That we often get
questions of whether AC or DC electrical equipment should be grounded to the
boat's bonding system is illustrative of this point. AC and DC grounding
systems are two separate systems, for distinctly different reasons. If you
don't understand these systems, you run the distinct risk of creating a
disaster. Actually, there are four separate ground systems: DC ground, AC
ground, AC grounding (or bond), and the vessel's bonding system. You can add
to this lightning and HF radio grounds as well. Do you know the principles
of each? Are you sufficiently confused to discourage you from doing your own
wiring? I hope so. For unless you understand each thoroughly, you're headed
for trouble.

The AC ground and grounding systems are "free floating," meaning that they
do not ground on the vessel, but only to shore. The ground, or neutral, is a
current carrying conductor, and is the source of many troubles because
people do not regard it as such. The grounding, bond or green wire is the
"safety" intended to channel current safely to ground in the event of a
short circuit. Both of these circuits are capable of conducting current and
can be the source of electrolysis when there are system faults with the dock
or marina wiring. This is very easy to test for.

There is only one point where the DC side is grounded, and that is at the
battery. It, too, is a "free floating" system in which nothing is ever
grounded to any metallic part of the vessel, most especially not the bonding
system. Just like a car sitting on rubber tires, completely insulated from
earth potential, the battery itself provides the negative potential.

The bonding system, also green wire, has nothing to do with electrical
systems. Underwater metals are simply wired together to equalize differences
in potential of different kinds of metal. Nothing should ever be grounded to
the bonding system. Unfortunately, some people don't understand this and use
it to ground electrical equipment, occasionally with disastrous results.

Bonding Systems
Bonding simply means wiring all the boats underwater metals together. This
is done because of the galvanism caused by the different metals. By wiring
them together, the differing potentials are equalized. Bonding does not
solve problems of galvanism or electrolysis, but it does spread the the flow
of current around over more metal, so that 1/4 volt or so won't cause any
damage. If the Navigator got this far he'd realize that the filter circuit
in the ground path (a common mode type) presents an impedance between the
transducer ground and the grounding plate. This impedance allows a voltage
differential to form and electrolysis to take place. Whereas if that 1/4
volt were going to one small seacock, it would probably eat it up in a
hurry. In other words, bonding lessens the effect of small amounts of
current. On the other hand, it also spreads it around to all underwater
metals so that higher currents end up damaging everything.

Bonding systems use wire and ordinary crimped ring terminals. After a while
these get wet and corroded. Electricity doesn't flow very well through
corroded metal, so your bonding system after a while stops working. To
maintain it, simply cut off the old terminals and install new ones. Do you
have wires attached to sea cocks with hose clamps? Forget it. This is
putting stainless and copper together, which are galvanically incompatible
and it won't work.

Your Bottom Paint
What does bottom paint have to do with electrical systems? Nowadays, with
copper based paints, a lot. If, the next time your boat is hauled and you
see large ugly burn patterns around all your underwater metals, you got a
stray current problem. Copper-based bottom paints react severely to stray
current, and serves as a great indicator. Sort of litmus paper for
electrical problems.

Of course, the common wisdom is that the stray current "is from the marina."
Or it's always the other guy's boat that is causing your problem. Don't bet
on it. Most stray current problems are sourced on the boat in which they
appear. Otherwise, everybody in the marina would have the same problem.

Electrolysis and Galvanism
Electrolysis is a word that is badly abused by boaters who don't really know
what it means, so let me correct this right now. First, understand that all
boats have an electrical potential. That's because of all the different
metals on the boat which, themselves have differing electrical potentials.
This is exactly the same principle that makes a dry cell battery generate
electricity. This electrical potential is called galvanism and is the reason
why we put zincs on boats.

Electrolysis is stray current escaping from the system and is most damaging.
It is an abnormal condition. When this happens, it will eat up the zincs in
no time, usually leaving that metal looking bright and shiny. Therefo
Shiny zincs = electrolysis. Dull eroded zincs = galvanism.

I spent two years putting a meter on every boat that was hauled for survey.
The average boat generates about 1/4 volt DC current and going as high as
1/3 volt without causing damage. But when it gets up to 1/2 volt, you got a
problem. Zincs will erode rapidly and underwater metals begin to be
affected.

Shore Power Cords
The single largest cause of problems with shore power systems results from
failure to maintain the connectors on both the cord and the boat connectors.
These devices are exposed to water and over time suffer from corrosion and
general wear. High resistance caused by corroded, bent or worn connectors
results in high resistance which causes overheating, which further amplifies
the power drop. This not only creates conditions for a potential fire, but
causes electrical equipment to work harder, resulting in reduced life span
of equipment. IT PAYS TO MAINTAIN SHORE POWER CONNECTIONS.

You can perform a very simple check just by placing your hand on the shore
cord near the connection to determine if it is heating up. Obviously, this
should be done while you have a lot of equipment turned on. If it's anything
but slightly warm, not more than 110 degrees, suspect a problem. Shore
power connectors should be dismantled at least once per year, cleaned and
repaired as necessary. Most of these connectors have replaceable parts. If
you drop your shorepower connector in the water, you must take it apart,
clean and dry it. Otherwise, expect it to burn up.

We recommend that you buy only the highest quality power cords, as these
will last longer and have the advantage of replaceable connector parts.
Cheap connectors usually can't be taken apart. We also advise against ever
using the three-pronger household type adapters as this type of connector is
highly unreliable and prone to causing system faults and fires. Only the
twist-lock type connector is suitable.

One more thing: If you are not turning off the dock breaker before
disconnecting the power cord, start doing it now. Not only do you risk
getting electrocuted, but disconnecting an energized connector damages the
contacts. Also consider what happens if you drop the energized cord in the
drink!

Polarity
This is an issue only with 125 VAC systems since 250 VAC systems will not
function with wrong polarity. Since you have three terminals on a shore
connection, wrong polarity can mean that any of these wires are in the wrong
position. Not only should you pay attention to the polarity indicator on
your boat, we recommend that you keep a plug in polarity indicator aboard
and use it every time you hook up to shore power at a different location.

Reverse polarity is not only an electrocution hazard, but can also damage
electrical equipment. It is most often found with the three prong spade
connectors (household type), but occasionally twist lock connectors as well,
particularly in marinas with dilapidated equipment. Never trust the power
supply at strange docks, but always check the polarity. When hooking up to
strange docks, always check your volt meters to make sure you have adequate
voltage. Low voltage is very damaging to electrical equipment. Turn on the
stove or water heater and watch what happens to the meter.

Main Circuit Protection
Many people think that the circuit breakers on the dock protect their boat.
They do not; they only protect the dock wiring. Your main circuit breaker
protects your boat's systems. But what about that section of wiring and
connectors between your main panel and the dock breaker? Well, the fact is
that it is unprotected. which is why so many fires occur. Check out all the
top end boats and you will find that they have circuit protection located
directly at the shore connectors. Which is why we recommend that you should
too. Having slow blow cartridge fuses installed directly at the connectors
can go a long way toward preventing fires and burned up shore cords,
particularly if you are a traveler and frequently rely on uncertain power
supplies. Circuit breakers should NEVER be installed on the exterior of the
boat. Only gasketed, water proof cartridge holders should be used.

Circuit Breakers
Circuit breakers wear out, and when they do they work less well, or not at
all. If you are using circuit breakers as ON/OFF switches, you are helping
them wear out that much faster. It also damages breakers when you shut off
equipment via the breaker. This causes arcing at the contact points which
damages the points. When connecting and disconnecting shore power, you
should always turn OFF equipment at the appropriate switch on the equipment.
Then shut the main breaker off. Do not ever simply throw the main breaker
off to shut down equipment that is operating. The circuit breaker arcs and
damages it.

Also be aware that any equipment run by a motor, such as air conditioning
and refrigeration equipment, start up with an initially much higher amperage
than the normal running amperage. An air conditioner that runs at 14 amps
may have a start up amperage of 20 amps, so that if you just go and turn all
the equipment on at once, it overloads the system. Then the circuit breaker
gets hot and won't stay engaged until it cools down. Ergo, start up heavy
equipment one item at a time, allowing it time to cycle into its normal
operating voltage before turning something else on. For example, don't turn
the AC, refrigerator and icemaker all on at once and not expect the breaker
to pop.

Chronic Breaker Popping
It's human nature that when a problem appears, we wish it to go away.
Breakers that pop frequently are signaling that there is a problem, which
could either be the breaker, or something in the circuit. Yet most people
will keep on attempting to make the breaker engage. This can be dangerous
because you may cause the contact points of the breaker to fuse together
from arcing, in which case it will never trip again. The above photo shows
what can happen when you do this. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ENGAGE A BREAKER THAT IS
OVERHEATED BY FORCING IT. You must allow it to cool down.

If you are experiencing chronic problems with circuit breakers popping,
first check how much current draw is involved. A single 30 amp circuit is
not much when you're running things like air conditioners, water heaters and
battery chargers. One very simple way to check whether you're dealing with
an overload problem is to add up the amperage draw of each piece of
equipment. List both the start up and run amperages. You will usually find
the amperage given right on the equipment label. By making a list of the
total power demand, you'll get a good idea of what you can and cannot
operate simultaneously, particularly when starting the equipment. If you
have an ammeter on your panel, check it against the amperage tally you made.
Ideally, you should try to hold power consumption at 80% or less than the
line rating.

Check the breaker by allowing it one hour (or whatever it takes) to cool
down. Turn the equipment off and, after it is cool, reengage the breaker.
Now turn the equipment back on. Place your finger on the front of the
breaker and note its temperature. If it does not heat back up again, then
the problem was probably a start-up overload. If the temperature rises
again, there is a fault in the circuit or the breaker. (Note: when the
breaker contact points become eroded, the breaker itself can overheat).

GFCI's
Ground fault current interrupter service outlets are required to be
installed in wet locations such as the galley or head. In reality, there's
little chance of being electrocuted inside a boat because you are not
grounded within the boat. A greater risk is from service outlets being
located in places that get wet, such as below leaking windows, hatches or
close to doors. Three pronged plugs are prone to shorting across the
terminals when wet, so having all your service outlets changed to GFCI's is
a good idea. Use only the highest quality devices from a reliable
manufacturer like GE, and not the el cheapos from the local discount store.
They aren't worth having. Service outlets located anywhere on the exterior
of the vessel are an invitation to trouble for reasons that should be
obvious.

http://www.thebassguide.com/acrobat_...terference.pdf

??????????????

"MC" wrote in message
...
Rubbish.

Cheers

Bobsprit wrote:
The electrolysis will be ghastly. That unit uses the bronze casing as
electrical ground for the transducer and also attempts to isolate it
from
battery ground noise by some filtering circuitry. The case ground and
battery ground will not be at the same potential and will cause floating
ground electrolysis.
Use a transducer that sends through the hull.

RB




"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...

I'm thinking of adding a Ray 365 Fishfinder to Alien. I can get one new

with a

bronze thu-hull for 169.00.
It does speed, temp and depth, but the bronze thru hull protrudes from
the

hull

with the fairing block and that sort of bugs me. It's a great deal

though...

Comments??

RB