katysails wrote:
otn said: In all honesty, Donal, you've made little sense, just beat about the
bush as if you hold the secret to life.

Donal's Irish...he does hold the secret of life....

Nah....all they hold, is the secret to "blarney"

otn repliedNah....all they hold, is the secret to "blarney"

But good blarnet IS the secret of life....you are not Irish...I can =
tell.....
:=20

--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

This was applied in my exam... (sailing not motoring)

I got about two minutes to fix my position from a 3point/running fix and I
was sent then below decks (with curtains closed and no outside view)...
Once below I was then supplied with my target...
(a bouy about 6-7 Nm away along the Solent, a very busy stretch of water
full of commercial and pleasure traffic)
I was allowed the following info...
crew were permitted to supply shape of any bouy passed within
5-10mtrs... (not colour or markings)
crew could supply compass heading if course requested heading could not
be achieved... (under sail, no motors)
crew could supply speed through water from log reading... (no VMG or
other compute details)
crew could supply current depth from echo sounder... (I assume the a
leadline is concidered to be aboard)
charts of given exam area and tidal atlas...
The examiner would also feed me various sound signals just to spcie things
up!

There you have it, the only info available was information that could be
gleaned without the use of any electronic device and no engines used.

JohnE

"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"One of the tests involves sitting at the chart table, with the ports
blacked
out, and predicting your position to within a few metres.

In other words, you have to sail (and navigate) the boat "blind".

No external imput at all.

How can this be done?

Joe
MSV RedCloud

Thanks John. I'd call that a GOOD test of basic piloting skills ...
one with plenty of room to screw up, but with all the info you should
need, to complete.

otn

John.E wrote:
This was applied in my exam... (sailing not motoring)

I got about two minutes to fix my position from a 3point/running fix and I
was sent then below decks (with curtains closed and no outside view)...
Once below I was then supplied with my target...
(a bouy about 6-7 Nm away along the Solent, a very busy stretch of water
full of commercial and pleasure traffic)
I was allowed the following info...
crew were permitted to supply shape of any bouy passed within
5-10mtrs... (not colour or markings)
crew could supply compass heading if course requested heading could not
be achieved... (under sail, no motors)
crew could supply speed through water from log reading... (no VMG or
other compute details)
crew could supply current depth from echo sounder... (I assume the a
leadline is concidered to be aboard)
charts of given exam area and tidal atlas...
The examiner would also feed me various sound signals just to spcie things
up!

There you have it, the only info available was information that could be
gleaned without the use of any electronic device and no engines used.

JohnE

"katysails" wrote in message


Donal's Irish...he does hold the secret of life....

Bushmills?

Max

Thanks for the description - that makes a lot of sense. By comparison, the test
in the US for 6-pack or 100 ton Master's includes similar chartwork, but
performed in the classroom, without a serious time limit. (And, of course, it
assumes powerboats.) For someone experienced, its much easier than being on
board, but it can be more difficult for some people, because the chart used may
be completely unfamiliar and dis-orienting. (Not that its supposed to be easy
....)

The way you say "without the use of any electronic device" makes it sound like
its a test of ancient and arcane arts. In reality, its the way most of us
sailed up until about 10 year ago.

-jeff

"John.E" wrote in message
...
This was applied in my exam... (sailing not motoring)

I got about two minutes to fix my position from a 3point/running fix and I
was sent then below decks (with curtains closed and no outside view)...
Once below I was then supplied with my target...
(a bouy about 6-7 Nm away along the Solent, a very busy stretch of water
full of commercial and pleasure traffic)
I was allowed the following info...
crew were permitted to supply shape of any bouy passed within
5-10mtrs... (not colour or markings)
crew could supply compass heading if course requested heading could not
be achieved... (under sail, no motors)
crew could supply speed through water from log reading... (no VMG or
other compute details)
crew could supply current depth from echo sounder... (I assume the a
leadline is concidered to be aboard)
charts of given exam area and tidal atlas...
The examiner would also feed me various sound signals just to spcie things
up!

There you have it, the only info available was information that could be
gleaned without the use of any electronic device and no engines used.

JohnE

otnmbrd wrote:



In all honesty, Donal, you've made little sense, just beat about the
bush as if you hold the secret to life.
The simple question posed was: What information, inputs, aids, were
available to the person taking this test?

The question was "How can this be done?".

I've tried to answer the question, but Joe doesn't want to believe me.
I've also tried to give "real life" examples.

As far as I remember, you have no inputs at all. You issue orders from
down below, and you predict your position from tide tables. etc.

Feel free to list them, numerically .... ya know ..... 1., 2., 3., etc.,
then everyone can decide how difficult or not, it is.





In the past, many people used many methods to do some highly accurate
"piloting", and many of these practices have been lost or never learned,
by most of the newer "navigators".


I'm only talking about standard stuff, currents, leeway, etc.

It is probably designed to show your real passage planning abilities, and
your likely performance in fog.

I, for one, would be interested in the specifics of this test, but from
your description, don't have a clue as to what's involved, though I'm
beginning to pick up some glimmers, that it's a basic piloting exam.

I've described the test several times.
You are sent below, where the ports(windows) have been blacked out.
You have your starting position clearly marked on the chart.. After 1/2
hour you are asked to mark your current position on the chart.

While you are below, you may issue instructions. eg course to steer.
I don't remember if you are told the speed.

The examiner will check the accuracy of your plot, and decide if you merit
a pass. The examiner decides what accuracy he requires.

It's 13-14 years since I did the course, so I'm cannot give you the
specifics of what is required.

13 years ago, there was far less electronics on boats. There wasn't even
GPS.




Simply stated, give Ole Joe some basic info to work with and maybe he'll
stop asking questions ..... or is this a troll ?


Hmmm, who's trolling? Joe claims that doing 25 knots in fog under radar
alone is safe. He refuses to believe that you can use tide tables and a
chart to plan a course that you can actually use without much further
assistance. Now you expect me to remember all the precise details of
something that I studied 13 years ago!


Regards


Donal
--

Maxprop wrote:


"katysails" wrote in message


Donal's Irish...he does hold the secret of life....

Bushmills?


Bushmills Green Label, if you can find it!


Regards

Donal
--

Maxprop wrote:


"katysails" wrote in message


Donal's Irish...he does hold the secret of life....

Bushmills?


Bushmills Green Label, if you can find it!


Regards

Donal
--

So, are you claiming you don't receive actual speed, or wind readings? Or
depth? Compass headings? Buoys passed? Sounds heard?

If you don't get any of this, why bother doing it on board; you could do the
same thing in a class room.

You made one of your typical outrageous claims, and then have refused to
clarify. How is this not trolling?



"Donal" wrote in message
...
otnmbrd wrote:



In all honesty, Donal, you've made little sense, just beat about the
bush as if you hold the secret to life.
The simple question posed was: What information, inputs, aids, were
available to the person taking this test?

The question was "How can this be done?".

I've tried to answer the question, but Joe doesn't want to believe me.
I've also tried to give "real life" examples.

As far as I remember, you have no inputs at all. You issue orders from
down below, and you predict your position from tide tables. etc.

Feel free to list them, numerically .... ya know ..... 1., 2., 3., etc.,
then everyone can decide how difficult or not, it is.





In the past, many people used many methods to do some highly accurate
"piloting", and many of these practices have been lost or never learned,
by most of the newer "navigators".


I'm only talking about standard stuff, currents, leeway, etc.

It is probably designed to show your real passage planning abilities, and
your likely performance in fog.

I, for one, would be interested in the specifics of this test, but from
your description, don't have a clue as to what's involved, though I'm
beginning to pick up some glimmers, that it's a basic piloting exam.

I've described the test several times.
You are sent below, where the ports(windows) have been blacked out.
You have your starting position clearly marked on the chart.. After 1/2
hour you are asked to mark your current position on the chart.

While you are below, you may issue instructions. eg course to steer.
I don't remember if you are told the speed.

The examiner will check the accuracy of your plot, and decide if you merit
a pass. The examiner decides what accuracy he requires.

It's 13-14 years since I did the course, so I'm cannot give you the
specifics of what is required.

13 years ago, there was far less electronics on boats. There wasn't even
GPS.




Simply stated, give Ole Joe some basic info to work with and maybe he'll
stop asking questions ..... or is this a troll ?


Hmmm, who's trolling? Joe claims that doing 25 knots in fog under radar
alone is safe. He refuses to believe that you can use tide tables and a
chart to plan a course that you can actually use without much further
assistance. Now you expect me to remember all the precise details of
something that I studied 13 years ago!


Regards


Donal
--