DSK wrote:


To improve the weatherliness of any boat, start first with the rig.
The mast should be straight & vertically centered... you'd be amazed
at how many sailors, even racers, are breezing around with crooked
and/or slanted masts.

Doug, I am surprised at this comment and I'll disagree with it for a
number of reasons: Bending the mast aft can flatten the main. A flatter
main is better at high wind strengths -and apparent wind is highest when
going upwind. Flattening the main also helps keep the slot open to
increase the efficiency of the foresail. The latter is the most
important sail for weatherliness. So by bending the mast aft, forestay
tension is increased to reduce forestay sag that reduces efficiency.
Finally, straightening the mast is not a good idea if the main sail is
old and out of shape (where the bend helps keep the draft forward) or
even not originally cut to a straight mast!

Finally, as an extra bonus, adding some mast bend can help prevent mast
inversion in severe conditions which can lead to a catastrophic collapse
(but I wouldn't expect you to know about that problem).

while most should know that the rake of the mast affects C of E and the
degree of weather helm, I'll guess that many do knot know that by giving
the boat some weather helm she climbs to windward better as the rudder
adds lift.

So, the bottom line is that it may be quite inappropriate to straighten
the mast to make the boat weatherly.

Cheers

MC wrote:

Doug, I am surprised at this comment and I'll disagree with it for a
number of reasons: Bending the mast aft can flatten the main.

That isn't what I was talking about. And the sail has to be cut to take the
mast bend into account, or it doesn't work.


So, the bottom line is that it may be quite inappropriate to straighten
the mast to make the boat weatherly.

Considering that you don't know that 20 doesn't equal 15, and from what you
have said about your racing results, you have a lot more to learn than to
teach.

DSK

DSK wrote:

MC wrote:


Doug, I am surprised at this comment and I'll disagree with it for a
number of reasons: Bending the mast aft can flatten the main.


That isn't what I was talking about. And the sail has to be cut to take the
mast bend into account, or it doesn't work.


So, you don't understand why bending a mast can flatten the main? Try
visiting a sail trimming site such as North -they explain it well and it
is really basic stuff.


So, the bottom line is that it may be quite inappropriate to straighten
the mast to make the boat weatherly.


Considering that you don't know that 20 doesn't equal 15, and from what you
have said about your racing results, you have a lot more to learn than to
teach.

Aww, don't pout so. Why do you continue with this nonsense. Look up the
boat I named and you'll find it's not 24' nor 20' long. These are your
fabrications getting in the way of truth again. Sorry, you lose again.

Cheers

MC wrote:

So, you don't understand why bending a mast can flatten the main?

No I understand it quite well. But it's pretty obvious that you understand very
little (in fact, nothing) about how to set up the basic tuning of a mast.

DSK

DSK wrote:

MC wrote:


So, you don't understand why bending a mast can flatten the main?


No I understand it quite well. But it's pretty obvious that you understand very
little (in fact, nothing) about how to set up the basic tuning of a mast.


Ignoring your usual childish ad hominem, I wonder why did you say that
straightening the mast makes a boat more weatherly?

Cheers

Doug you are talking about a mast
being straight side to side, and
of course you are correct that many
people don't get this right. For one
thing is a pain and take a lot of time
tweaking the shrouds.

MC is talking about mast bend as used
for sail shaping--another subject entirely.

Bart Senior


DSK wrote

MC wrote:

Doug, I am surprised at this comment and I'll disagree with it for a
number of reasons: Bending the mast aft can flatten the main.

That isn't what I was talking about. And the sail has to be cut to take the
mast bend into account, or it doesn't work.


So, the bottom line is that it may be quite inappropriate to straighten
the mast to make the boat weatherly.

Considering that you don't know that 20 doesn't equal 15, and from what you
have said about your racing results, you have a lot more to learn than to
teach.

DSK

N1EE wrote:

Doug you are talking about a mast
being straight side to side, and
of course you are correct that many
people don't get this right. For one
thing is a pain and take a lot of time
tweaking the shrouds.

If you know the method, it doesn't really take that much time. I think most
people don't approach it methodically and either make it worse or else fiddle
around forever. The important thing is to loosen all the lowers first and get the
masthead centered, few people seem willing to start by un-doing all previous mast
tuning.

It used to be that tuning manuals would talk about getting a uniform athwartships
bend to either open or close the slot, depending on whether the boat needed more
pointing or more power. But it has turned out that keeping the mast "in column"
meaning straight when viewed athwartship is faster. It may be that modern sails
(different cut & materials) respond enough differently that back then, the
side-to-side bend did help.... if you got it right...

We've had this demonstrated dramatically twice... once in the Lightning and once
in the Johnson 18. Somehow one lower shroud got tightened and I did not
scrupulously check the mast before setting out for the starting line. We could
point sort of OK on one tack, but terrible on the other, and despite all we could
do were sailing alongside the tail-enders. After spotting & fixing the problem
(which made me vow for the 100th time, always review the basics) we had front row
seats.




MC is talking about mast bend as used
for sail shaping--another subject entirely.

Yes, as usual he missed the point.

I think that it would be good to discuss mast bend & rake, too. Then MC will get
to toss in his 2 cents (but he'll probably still be wrong).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

It took me and a couple of friends about three hours to get it right on
my Cal 20. That included putting up the mast itself.

"DSK" wrote in message
...
N1EE wrote:

Doug you are talking about a mast
being straight side to side, and
of course you are correct that many
people don't get this right. For one
thing is a pain and take a lot of time
tweaking the shrouds.

If you know the method, it doesn't really take that much time. I think
most
people don't approach it methodically and either make it worse or else
fiddle
around forever. The important thing is to loosen all the lowers first and
get the
masthead centered, few people seem willing to start by un-doing all
previous mast
tuning.

It used to be that tuning manuals would talk about getting a uniform
athwartships
bend to either open or close the slot, depending on whether the boat
needed more
pointing or more power. But it has turned out that keeping the mast "in
column"
meaning straight when viewed athwartship is faster. It may be that modern
sails
(different cut & materials) respond enough differently that back then, the
side-to-side bend did help.... if you got it right...

We've had this demonstrated dramatically twice... once in the Lightning
and once
in the Johnson 18. Somehow one lower shroud got tightened and I did not
scrupulously check the mast before setting out for the starting line. We
could
point sort of OK on one tack, but terrible on the other, and despite all
we could
do were sailing alongside the tail-enders. After spotting & fixing the
problem
(which made me vow for the 100th time, always review the basics) we had
front row
seats.




MC is talking about mast bend as used
for sail shaping--another subject entirely.

Yes, as usual he missed the point.

I think that it would be good to discuss mast bend & rake, too. Then MC
will get
to toss in his 2 cents (but he'll probably still be wrong).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Ganz wrote...

It took me and a couple of friends about three hours to get a strap-on right
on
my pal, Joey. That included swallowing


Ewwwwwwwwwww!!!!

RB

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Ganz wrote...

It took me and a couple of friends about three hours to get a strap-on
right
on
my pal, Joey. That included swallowing


Ewwwwwwwwwww!!!!

RB