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#2
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And ???????
So, it's OK to run over and kill people in
the name of making a living? I'd love to be in the courtroom when you spout that as a defense. S.Simon "otnmbrd" wrote in message nk.net... G Personal opinion .... On a ship, it would be totally different. For the average recreational boater, if you don't have to go in these conditions, don't .... if you get caught in them, slow WAY down, and take your time .... you're doing it for fun, not to make a living. otn |
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#3
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Neal, you probably don't need to worry about that, since you
would likely be the dead party. "Simple Simon" wrote in message ... So, it's OK to run over and kill people in the name of making a living? I'd love to be in the courtroom when you spout that as a defense. S.Simon "otnmbrd" wrote in message nk.net... G Personal opinion .... On a ship, it would be totally different. For the average recreational boater, if you don't have to go in these conditions, don't .... if you get caught in them, slow WAY down, and take your time .... you're doing it for fun, not to make a living. otn |
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#4
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Typically, uninformed statement.
In answer to your question .... No. However, typically, commercial operators get caught in situations over which they have no control, and have to continue on (For instance, I've left the dock at Baton Rouge, La. and encountered fog shortly thereafter and had no choice but to continue downriver because there was no anchorage available.) or it's the nature of their business that they have to go in all conditions and try to maintain a semblance of a schedule .... which may mean that conditions will allow normal speeds, but generally means they will frequently be slowing and then speeding back up, or staying slow the whole way .... it's not a "yes or no" condition. Simple Simon wrote: So, it's OK to run over and kill people in the name of making a living? I'd love to be in the courtroom when you spout that as a defense. S.Simon "otnmbrd" wrote in message nk.net... G Personal opinion .... On a ship, it would be totally different. For the average recreational boater, if you don't have to go in these conditions, don't .... if you get caught in them, slow WAY down, and take your time .... you're doing it for fun, not to make a living. otn |
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#5
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Capt. Otn,
It appears to me Joe is saying if it's a commercial venture and not recreational boating then it's OK to proceed in an unsafe manner while ignoring or bending the Rules of the Road as applicable to restricted visibility. It appears to me that you are agreeing with him. Appearances are sometimes misleading so I will give you the benefit of the doubt because no self-respecting, law abiding, USCG licensed Master would knowingly and proudly claim he either ignores or breaks specific COLREGS in the name of commerce. The COLREGS apply to all vessels - there is no distinction between commercial vessels and private vessels when it comes to operating in restricted visibility and to claim going 25 knots in restricted visibility in congested areas like the lower Mississippi and Gulf of Mexico is a safe and normal practice is to show ignorance of the law and a disregard for safety of life at sea. While you aren't saying this directly your agreeing with one who IS does not bode well for your common sense, education or professionalism. S.Simon "otnmbrd" wrote in message news  Typically, uninformed statement. In answer to your question .... No. However, typically, commercial operators get caught in situations over which they have no control, and have to continue on (For instance, I've left the dock at Baton Rouge, La. and encountered fog shortly thereafter and had no choice but to continue downriver because there was no anchorage available.) or it's the nature of their business that they have to go in all conditions and try to maintain a semblance of a schedule .... which may mean that conditions will allow normal speeds, but generally means they will frequently be slowing and then speeding back up, or staying slow the whole way .... it's not a "yes or no" condition. Simple Simon wrote: So, it's OK to run over and kill people in the name of making a living? I'd love to be in the courtroom when you spout that as a defense. S.Simon "otnmbrd" wrote in message nk.net... G Personal opinion .... On a ship, it would be totally different. For the average recreational boater, if you don't have to go in these conditions, don't .... if you get caught in them, slow WAY down, and take your time .... you're doing it for fun, not to make a living. otn |
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#6
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Comments interspersed:
Simple Simon wrote: Capt. Otn, It appears to me Joe is saying if it's a commercial venture and not recreational boating then it's OK to proceed in an unsafe manner while ignoring or bending the Rules of the Road as applicable to restricted visibility. It appears to me that you are agreeing with him. I can't speak for Joe, only the conditions. First off, read rule 6 again. Each operator must consider a safe speed under ANY conditions of visibility, the maneuverability of the particular vessel, the navigation equipment, etc.. For you, in your vessel, in fog, to proceed at 6k, would be excessive speed. You have no radar, and thusly, no way to closely monitor and be aware of traffic within your area, and with your small outboard, a crash stop will probably take a couple of boat lengths. Add to this, that you are rarely underway, except on some weekends for a few hours and may or may not be traveling familiar routes. Now, let's take the "Joe's" of the world. They're running day in and day out, on the same routes, in all conditions, and are highly familiar with radar and what they see on it .... to them, the only difference between a clear day and a foggy day, is how they get their visual input as to where they are and where they're going, and their boats can stop in a boat length or less (especially if they've slowed down for something they're not sure of). Are they breaking the rules? G In some cases yes. In some cases maybe, and in some cases, not really (won't say "no", because that doesn't exist). Do I condone this type of operation? ..... only if they make it through their entire career, without an accident......Try to understand this, Neal .... this paragraph applies to me as well as all others. Appearances are sometimes misleading so I will give you the benefit of the doubt because no self-respecting, law abiding, USCG licensed Master would knowingly and proudly claim he either ignores or breaks specific COLREGS in the name of commerce. I break specific COLREGS all the time. Rule 2, allows me to do this and says that I will, if conditions warrant. The difference is, I try to obey the COLREGS, whenever possible .... it's not always possible. The COLREGS apply to all vessels - there is no distinction between commercial vessels and private vessels when it comes to operating in restricted visibility and to claim going 25 knots in restricted visibility in congested areas like the lower Mississippi and Gulf of Mexico is a safe and normal practice is to show ignorance of the law and a disregard for safety of life at sea. While you aren't saying this directly your agreeing with one who IS does not bode well for your common sense, education or professionalism. G The vast majority of traffic in the lower Miss. is commercial, and it's generally not all that congested, except to an amateur, such as yourself. If you paid attention to the radio traffic in that area, you'd know that all these vessels are in frequent and constant radio communication with each other, for "passing situations", be it clear or restricted visibility. These people are NOT showing ignorance of the law, OR a disregard for safety of life at sea. What they ARE doing, is operating at a level, which FAR exceeds your understanding and abilities AND license qualifications. As per usual, Neal, you are trying to discuss a subject, on a level that you have no chance of attaining, and even less, understanding. otn |
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#7
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"Simple Simon" wrote in message ...
So, it's OK to run over and kill people in the name of making a living? I'd love to be in the courtroom when you spout that as a defense. S.Simon No it's not OK to run over and kill anyone. But most ships have radars that cost 10 times what your boat cost. They are excellent tools that you use with radios gps,s chart plotters ect that allow you to do a job safely, that can not be done on the adverage recreation craft. Plus Ships in a channel usually require pilots, guys that during an exam have to draw a chart of a ship channel and harbor from memeory including every aid to navigation, dock, ect. They have 100's if not thousands of trips in that local area. Tell me Neil, Do you have a radar endorsement on the back of your licences? How's about a radio endorsement? How's about any endorsements? Didn't think so. Your basic, and with your attitude you will stay a basic mariner, never a master mariner. Joe MSV RedCloud "otnmbrd" wrote in message nk.net... G Personal opinion .... On a ship, it would be totally different. For the average recreational boater, if you don't have to go in these conditions, don't .... if you get caught in them, slow WAY down, and take your time .... you're doing it for fun, not to make a living. otn |
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#8
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I don't care if you have the whole, God Damned,
Houston Space Center on the bridge of your ship. You are still in violation of Rule 19 and many of the Rules in Section 1. S.Simon "Joe" wrote in message om... "Simple Simon" wrote in message ... So, it's OK to run over and kill people in the name of making a living? I'd love to be in the courtroom when you spout that as a defense. S.Simon No it's not OK to run over and kill anyone. But most ships have radars that cost 10 times what your boat cost. They are excellent tools that you use with radios gps,s chart plotters ect that allow you to do a job safely, that can not be done on the adverage recreation craft. Plus Ships in a channel usually require pilots, guys that during an exam have to draw a chart of a ship channel and harbor from memeory including every aid to navigation, dock, ect. They have 100's if not thousands of trips in that local area. Tell me Neil, Do you have a radar endorsement on the back of your licences? How's about a radio endorsement? How's about any endorsements? Didn't think so. Your basic, and with your attitude you will stay a basic mariner, never a master mariner. Joe MSV RedCloud "otnmbrd" wrote in message nk.net... G Personal opinion .... On a ship, it would be totally different. For the average recreational boater, if you don't have to go in these conditions, don't .... if you get caught in them, slow WAY down, and take your time .... you're doing it for fun, not to make a living. otn |
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#9
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otnmbrd wrote in message news:qxoIb.12432
Depends on where you are and what your set-up is. If you are running HSC or the Miss., this would not be bad, On the HSC you also have traffic control to advise you of any other traffic. especially if you only have one set. If you had two, for that type boat, depending on where you are, I might suggest one set at 3.0m and the other on 1.5 (scanning down on the 1.5m set, at times.) Most crew boats do have 2 radar sets, usually I have one on standby and just keep switching back and forth on the range selector. Keeps you from getting a sore neck and prevents you from missing something while moving from one display to the other, and on sunny days with thick fog I like to keep my face buried in the radars rubber hood/visor to keep from ruining your dark vision. Once clear of the channel, into the Gulf, I'd probably kick one set up to 6.0m (at least) and the other to 3.0m (if only one set, 3.0m with kick ups to 6.0m)then scan the 3.0m set, down, on occasion. Sounds about right. I worry more in open water than I do in the rivers or channels because of wave clutter. Plus offshore I'd set up a couple of range alarms. On the supply boat ive ran we had some nice setup's. Radar on each side of the wheel with one set that will rotate so the lookout can use it. We have contest all the time seeing who could pick up targets first and calucating there speed and courses, and CPA's. In heavy traffic areas we would wear the cursers out. G Personal opinion .... On a ship, it would be totally different. For the average recreational boater, if you don't have to go in these conditions, don't .... if you get caught in them, slow WAY down, and take your time .... you're doing it for fun, not to make a living. otn Do you have a radar endorsement? Joe MSV RedCloud |
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#10
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Comments interspersed:
Joe wrote: otnmbrd wrote in message news:qxoIb.12432 Depends on where you are and what your set-up is. If you are running HSC or the Miss., this would not be bad, On the HSC you also have traffic control to advise you of any other traffic. G It's been awhile. They didn't have it when I was running there. especially if you only have one set. If you had two, for that type boat, depending on where you are, I might suggest one set at 3.0m and the other on 1.5 (scanning down on the 1.5m set, at times.) Most crew boats do have 2 radar sets, usually I have one on standby and just keep switching back and forth on the range selector. Keeps you from getting a sore neck and prevents you from missing something while moving from one display to the other, and on sunny days with thick fog I like to keep my face buried in the radars rubber hood/visor to keep from ruining your dark vision. People vary, in how they operate. If I've got two sets, they're both on ..... I may concentrate on one particular one, but I like to be able to glance at the other for the "larger" picture, and/or have it there if something should go wrong with the first (have had that happen). Once clear of the channel, into the Gulf, I'd probably kick one set up to 6.0m (at least) and the other to 3.0m (if only one set, 3.0m with kick ups to 6.0m)then scan the 3.0m set, down, on occasion. Sounds about right. I worry more in open water than I do in the rivers or channels because of wave clutter. Plus offshore I'd set up a couple of range alarms. On the supply boat ive ran we had some nice setup's. Radar on each side of the wheel with one set that will rotate so the lookout can use it. We have contest all the time seeing who could pick up targets first and calucating there speed and courses, and CPA's. In heavy traffic areas we would wear the cursers out. G Personal opinion .... On a ship, it would be totally different. For the average recreational boater, if you don't have to go in these conditions, don't .... if you get caught in them, slow WAY down, and take your time .... you're doing it for fun, not to make a living. otn Do you have a radar endorsement? Yes. Required of my license. otn Joe MSV RedCloud |
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