"Joe" wrote in message
om...
Yes we have col regs and I obeyed them. Why do you ask. Is it because
of the speed we were running?


Yes!



I cannot imagine a vessel that needs 25 kts to maintain steerage.

Even if it needed 25 kts, then I cannot see that it could not either drift,
or drop anchor.


25 kts in thick fog seems to be just plain stupid.



Regards


Donal
--

"Donal" wrote in message ...
"Joe" wrote in message
om...
Yes we have col regs and I obeyed them. Why do you ask. Is it because
of the speed we were running?


Yes!



I cannot imagine a vessel that needs 25 kts to maintain steerage.

has nothing to do with steerage dufass, it's about doing a job.
Airplanes land in fog today, ships run in it and they are able to do
it thru the miracle of radar. You do not pass at full speed, you do
not meet other vessels at full speed. You talk to everyone your going
to meet if you can by radio. Nothing magic about it, just plain commen
sence. The job can be done safely. Just because you and Capt. Neal
lack the skill, will not make the facts different.


Even if it needed 25 kts, then I cannot see that it could not either drift,
or drop anchor.

Dumb getting dumber.


25 kts in thick fog seems to be just plain stupid.

To someone that can not figure out how to do it, it may seem stupid.
Thats the same things people said about the first airplane, man going
to the moon, penicillian, open heart surgery, artifical hearts,
electricity, cars ect........

Just takes the proper equipment, knowledge, and the ability to use it
correctly.

BUT YOU SHOULD ANCHOR AND WAIT FOR THE FOG TO LIFT..............

Joe
MSV RedCloud

Regards


Donal
--

"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"Donal" wrote in message
...
"Joe" wrote in message
om...
Yes we have col regs and I obeyed them. Why do you ask. Is it because
of the speed we were running?


Yes!



I cannot imagine a vessel that needs 25 kts to maintain steerage.

has nothing to do with steerage dufass, it's about doing a job.
Airplanes land in fog today, ships run in it and they are able to do
it thru the miracle of radar. You do not pass at full speed, you do
not meet other vessels at full speed. You talk to everyone your going
to meet if you can by radio. Nothing magic about it, just plain commen
sence. The job can be done safely. Just because you and Capt. Neal
lack the skill, will not make the facts different.


Well, .... common sense suggests to me that your radar cannot see below
your bow.

Common sense also suggests that, in a river, boats could come out from the
side, suddenly.

Common sense tells me that doing 25 kts in fog is stupid.

Regards


Donal
--

Donal wrote:
Common sense tells me that doing 25 kts in fog is stupid.


http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group...504230-07.hcsp

http://www.shipownersclub.com/losspr...asia/39495.htm


Its Joes license at stake, the acceptable risk is his to bear.

We have similar issues in the keys running tourists to the reef: if
the weather is borderline and we cancel we lose revenue to competion
who will accept the risk.

IF We don't run , we lose needed revenue to competition. Its the
captians responsibility to assess weather for Each and Every trip. I
have run plenty of trips where conditions were fine for sailing but
not snorkelling and I have been quite clear to all passengers about
the conditions and once I explain expected conditions its common for
some to drop out, I would rather lose them upfront than have them go
and not have a good time because it was too rough. People actually
show up at the dock with winds @25knots expecting to go snorkelling in
conditions reflected by postcard photographs....
I remember explaining to one family about the rough conditions over
the phone, THEY WANTED TO GO. THEY DIDN'T CARE. When they showed up
at the dock they hadn't mentioned their small kids or the pregnant
wife in her 8&1/2 month. I thought these people were absolutely nuts
and they were quite upset when I cancelled.

(Roy G. Biv) wrote in message . com...
Donal wrote:
Common sense tells me that doing 25 kts in fog is stupid.


http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group...504230-07.hcsp

Good example of a major ****-up. If Donal paid attention he would of
read that I never pass or overtake at full speed. And I always do
everything I can to talk to the other vessel and make passing
agreements. Even after talking I will creep pass the other vessel
before getting back up on plane. These idiots assumed to much and paid
for it. I always treat the other vesseel in fog like Donal is at the
wheel and expect them to do something stupid.


http://www.shipownersclub.com/losspr...asia/39495.htm

Another great example of a **** up. Both had radars set at .75 miles
moving at 30 knots. If donal read my post he would see that I set my
radars at 1.5 miles and have well over 2 minutes to stop if I meet
another crewboat doing 20 knots.
And I have time to talk and AGREE on what whistle we are going to
pass.

Dont know if you remember Donal but I told a story here once about
being on a 120 foot fully loaded crew boat named the Destiny doing
over 20 knots that had a head on collision with another 110 foot
crewboat named the Dare doing 20 knots empty. I was the relief skipper
and in the bunk expecting to wake up and off load cargo at the rig and
bring the boat back in. The show off asshole capt that was taking the
boat out made a one whistle passing agreement with the inbound boat.
My wife who was a deckhand at the time was seriously injured. Over 400
thousand dollars damage done to both boats. All because the asshole
was trying to show off and roar pass another boat as it roared in. She
said the last thing she saw before impact was a green light. I have
seen first hand what can go wrong. But I also know it can be done
safely. It's a serious business not for the meek, or the showoff.

Joe
MSV RedCloud







Its Joes license at stake, the acceptable risk is his to bear.

We have similar issues in the keys running tourists to the reef: if
the weather is borderline and we cancel we lose revenue to competion
who will accept the risk.

IF We don't run , we lose needed revenue to competition. Its the
captians responsibility to assess weather for Each and Every trip. I
have run plenty of trips where conditions were fine for sailing but
not snorkelling and I have been quite clear to all passengers about
the conditions and once I explain expected conditions its common for
some to drop out, I would rather lose them upfront than have them go
and not have a good time because it was too rough. People actually
show up at the dock with winds @25knots expecting to go snorkelling in
conditions reflected by postcard photographs....
I remember explaining to one family about the rough conditions over
the phone, THEY WANTED TO GO. THEY DIDN'T CARE. When they showed up
at the dock they hadn't mentioned their small kids or the pregnant
wife in her 8&1/2 month. I thought these people were absolutely nuts
and they were quite upset when I cancelled.

Donal is right. I never leave the slip if there's even a hint of fog.
Or if fog is predicted. Or when rain is forecast. Or winds above 6
kts.

RB

Joe wrote:
(Roy G. Biv) wrote in message . com...

Donal wrote:

Common sense tells me that doing 25 kts in fog is stupid.


http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group...504230-07.hcsp


Good example of a major ****-up. If Donal paid attention he would of
read that I never pass or overtake at full speed. And I always do
everything I can to talk to the other vessel and make passing
agreements. Even after talking I will creep pass the other vessel
before getting back up on plane. These idiots assumed to much and paid
for it. I always treat the other vesseel in fog like Donal is at the
wheel and expect them to do something stupid.


http://www.shipownersclub.com/losspr...asia/39495.htm


Another great example of a **** up. Both had radars set at .75 miles
moving at 30 knots. If donal read my post he would see that I set my
radars at 1.5 miles and have well over 2 minutes to stop if I meet
another crewboat doing 20 knots.
And I have time to talk and AGREE on what whistle we are going to
pass.


Depends on where you are and what your set-up is.
If you are running HSC or the Miss., this would not be bad, especially
if you only have one set. If you had two, for that type boat, depending
on where you are, I might suggest one set at 3.0m and the other on 1.5
(scanning down on the 1.5m set, at times.)
Once clear of the channel, into the Gulf, I'd probably kick one set up
to 6.0m (at least) and the other to 3.0m (if only one set, 3.0m with
kick ups to 6.0m)then scan the 3.0m set, down, on occasion.
G Personal opinion .... On a ship, it would be totally different.
For the average recreational boater, if you don't have to go in these
conditions, don't .... if you get caught in them, slow WAY down, and
take your time .... you're doing it for fun, not to make a living.

otn

So, it's OK to run over and kill people in
the name of making a living? I'd love
to be in the courtroom when you spout
that as a defense.

S.Simon

"otnmbrd" wrote in message nk.net...
G Personal opinion .... On a ship, it would be totally different.
For the average recreational boater, if you don't have to go in these
conditions, don't .... if you get caught in them, slow WAY down, and
take your time .... you're doing it for fun, not to make a living.

otn

otnmbrd wrote in message news:qxoIb.12432

Depends on where you are and what your set-up is.
If you are running HSC or the Miss., this would not be bad,

On the HSC you also have traffic control to advise you of any other
traffic.


especially
if you only have one set. If you had two, for that type boat, depending
on where you are, I might suggest one set at 3.0m and the other on 1.5
(scanning down on the 1.5m set, at times.)

Most crew boats do have 2 radar sets, usually I have one on standby
and just keep switching back and forth on the range selector. Keeps
you from getting a sore neck and prevents you from missing something
while moving from one display to the other, and on sunny days with
thick fog I like to keep my face buried in the radars rubber
hood/visor to keep from ruining your dark vision.


Once clear of the channel, into the Gulf, I'd probably kick one set up
to 6.0m (at least) and the other to 3.0m (if only one set, 3.0m with
kick ups to 6.0m)then scan the 3.0m set, down, on occasion.

Sounds about right. I worry more in open water than I do in the
rivers or channels because of wave clutter. Plus offshore I'd set up a
couple of range alarms. On the supply boat ive ran we had some nice
setup's. Radar on each side of the wheel with one set that will rotate
so the lookout can use it. We have contest all the time seeing who
could pick up targets first and calucating there speed and courses,
and CPA's. In heavy traffic areas we would wear the cursers out.



G Personal opinion .... On a ship, it would be totally different.
For the average recreational boater, if you don't have to go in these
conditions, don't .... if you get caught in them, slow WAY down, and
take your time .... you're doing it for fun, not to make a living.

otn



Do you have a radar endorsement?

Joe
MSV RedCloud

"Donal" wrote in message ...
"
Well, .... common sense suggests to me that your radar cannot see below
your bow.

Your an idiot Donal, I can see everything in front of my bow, that
why we usually mount radars at the top of the wheelhouse, true I might
not see something 10 foot in front of the bow but I will know it's
there because I saw it from a mile to 10 foot in front of the bow.


Common sense also suggests that, in a river, boats could come out from the
side, suddenly.


Ever hear 4 or 5 detroit diesels running at full speed? you can hear
them a mile away. Only problems I ever had were duck hunters that
pulled flat bottom boats up on the bank. Some times they get upset by
a wake. Most the locals and the guides know commerical boats run these
rivers and expect huge wakes. And find protected places to pull the
boats up.

I sail near the Houston ship channel all the time. Several time I've
been fog bound, I did not have radar at the time. Just got out of the
channel and wated it out. But all the ships keep running at full speed
and send huge wakes out of the channel. I know if Im near the channel
these wake will come after the noise of the ship passing. It's one of
those common sence things.

Check out a coastal pilot for the Missippi delta area and you will
see that they have thick fog around 110 days a year on average. Is all
work suppose to stop? How long do you think you would stay employed
for an oil company if you stopped every time fog blew in. You stop for
24 hours to wait out fog you cost your customer 45,000 dollars to
100,000 dollars depending on the rig. And the
most expensive rigs are in the mississippi canyon area were the water
is 1400 foot deep. The companies knew my boat would do the job. That
whay I always worked the big money rigs like Bull Winkle.

Why in the hell do you think radars are put on boats? Is it just a
gadget to impress people like Bobspirt uses his?

Or is it a tool to help you complete a task?

Joe



Common sense tells me that doing 25 kts in fog is stupid.

Were back to the same thing Donal.Your just to stupid to understand it
can be done safely. You have no pratical experience in doing it, and I
guess until then you will never be able to comprehend.

Regards


Donal
--