"JN" wrote in message . ..
Now you're qualified to take me for an evening sail next summer when I spend
my annual week in the Keys and serve me a glass of wine when I demand it,
serve me a snack when I want it, and in general put up with all my garbage
because I won't give a tip if you don't ?????

Huh, cappy wappy? Is that what your paper gives you permission to do?


Thats the OZ yachtmaster ticket you must be talking about. I hear the
only pratical test a "yachtmaster" has to take, is how quick he can
get his knee pads on and off. Here in the USA licences are for working
mariners.

If you ever acted like that on any vessel I ran we would of stuffed
you in the anchor chain locker in ruff seas. You would be stacking
chain till you passed out and were buried in it. You better stick to
your lubbery ways on a cruise ship were you belong, not a real ship
were you earn, not buy, respect.

Joe
MSV RedCloud

Never been to the Florida Keys, have you? Imagine this, a tropical paradise
in which everyone wants to live, but there are very few jobs. What to do?
They either sell t-shirts, wait tables, or take tourists out to the reef.
There are soooooo many people trying to make a living on the water down
there the captains will wipe your hiney-hole for you if you ask them.

"JN" wrote in message .. .
Never been to the Florida Keys, have you? Imagine this, a tropical paradise
in which everyone wants to live, but there are very few jobs. What to do?
They either sell t-shirts, wait tables, or take tourists out to the reef.
There are soooooo many people trying to make a living on the water down
there the captains will wipe your hiney-hole for you if you ask them.

No never have been to Key West.

But I do know how to deal with people that act like snobbish assholes.

Joe
MSV RedCloud

Not really an asshole. Neal gave me the works a couple times, once shortly
after I went to the trouble to dig up some decent prices for Coronado's just
to give him support for the beating he was receiving from Bobsprit. You
just stepped into the middle of a little retaliation.

"JN" wrote in message . ..
Not really an asshole. Neal gave me the works a couple times, once shortly
after I went to the trouble to dig up some decent prices for Coronado's just
to give him support for the beating he was receiving from Bobsprit. You
just stepped into the middle of a little retaliation.


Retaliation? Retaliation?? RETALIATION???

So, that's what you call it? Bwahahahahahahhahahah!
Thanks for pointing it out because I wouldn't have
noticed it otherwise.

S.Simon

"JN" nottelling@ wrote in message ...
Never been to the Florida Keys, have you? Imagine this, a tropical paradise


rotflol: a tropical paradise ?

you must have been a tourist :

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/cruisingkeywest/joke.html

in which everyone wants to live, but there are very few jobs. What to do?

ah, the elevator opens in KW

They either sell t-shirts, wait tables, or take tourists out to the reef.
There are soooooo many people trying to make a living on the water down
there the captains will wipe your hiney-hole for you if you ask them.

As someone from KW who actually has earned a living using a 100t
masters license with aux sail endorsement operating an inspected
vessel and occassionally hiring sailboat captains for reef trips I
feel qualified to add a few comments to this threads food fight.

On hiring captains, I have had to hire a few..


the license only qualifies you for a job, what makes you a preferred
candidate will be:

EXPERIENCE with similar sized/type vessels.

LOCAL KNOWLEDGE of area marine life, reefs, Sanctuary regulations and
weather

MAINTENANCE SKILLS -- can you do routine maintenance, change a diesel
fuel filter and bleed the system get a fuel starved engine running?
can you change a water pump impeller?

Can you keep the vessel operating to Inspected vessel standards?
examples- keep flares in date, keep fire extinguishers certified,

Inspected passenger vessels are just that INSPECTED !

for those of you unfamiliar with Inspected vessels there are basically
two types of inspections, announced and unannounced;

announced inspections can be divided into three components;

Yard: When vessel is hauled, one aspect: remove all seacocks and/or
throughhull valves and present them for inspector, hull exterior,keel,
rudder inspected.

Annual Inspection all safety equipment reviewed, vessel condition
reviewed, all vessel paperwork (VHF station License, wastemanagement
plan, documentation, inspected vessel paperwork etc) Captains and
crews paperwork ( licenses aboard, radiotelephony certicate, ,
redcross first aid (3y) and CPR (1Y) uptodate, entered in Consortium
etc)

Announced inspection, this ***INCLUDES*** vessel OPERATION with MOB
drill, fire drill, etc.


unannounced MSO inspection, MSO officer just shows up unannounced and
checks equipment and paperwork.


then theres random spot inspections by regular coasties example:
I have been boarded at the reef and inspected while passengers were
snorkelling, I have been boarded (vessel to vessel) at the dock and
spot inspected as passengers were boarding...

so word gets out we need a relief captain and a not uncommon event
would be for a "license-qualified" capt to apply. He got his license
in New England and just moved to the keys. He fished new england for
xx years but knows nothing of our ecosystem, our marine life, our
weather. I CAN'T hire him when theres more qualified candidates
(usually mates who have worked locally on larger boats then gotten
licenses). I my experience the license qualified local "Yachties" who
applied for these jobs / had the license/ have the knowledge/ the
majority of the yachties are able to run the smaller boats, never had
a problem hiring a local to run the uninspected sloop (41'), the
bigger 20 passenger inspected vessel seemed to intimidate the yachties
and there was always a much smaller pool of people applying, having a
license only got your application on my desk. There was never a reason
for me to hire someone because they had XXX license; _everybody
applying_ has the license- the people we HIRED knew the waters, the
local regs, the marine life, the ecosystem... Only a few vessels in
Key West require more than 100t license, even the Western Union is
90t...

http://www.schoonerwesternunion.com/History.htm

A very well thought out and written exposé!

It proves a couple of things. For one it proves
people like Shen, Otn, RickyTickyTugs, and
other unlimited license holders have little
grasp on reality. They think because they've
run big ships that they are more qualified
to run the smaller stuff in shallow water,
reef environments. The unfortunate number
of shipping that runs aground each and
every year on a well-marked reef alone
proves these people have more ego than
sense or skill.

You said it right when you said experience
and local knowledge are of paramount
importance. Responsible yachties who hold
the smaller licenses and have lived and
sailed the area for many years, know the
weather and the bottom, can read the water
even when it's milky, brown or green with
a bloom will have far greater success navigating
these waters than some "pilot house potato"
who excels at watching a radar screen and
barreling 20-30 knots through traffic in
restricted vis.

Shen, Otn and little Ricky could show up requesting
employ on a local head boat and a local yachtie with
a small license and local knowledge, experience and
a good work record would beat all of them out for
the job every time. That's what sticks in their craws.

S.Simon

"Roy G. Biv" wrote in message om...
"JN" nottelling@ wrote in message ...
Never been to the Florida Keys, have you? Imagine this, a tropical paradise


rotflol: a tropical paradise ?

you must have been a tourist :

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/cruisingkeywest/joke.html

in which everyone wants to live, but there are very few jobs. What to do?

ah, the elevator opens in KW

They either sell t-shirts, wait tables, or take tourists out to the reef.
There are soooooo many people trying to make a living on the water down
there the captains will wipe your hiney-hole for you if you ask them.

As someone from KW who actually has earned a living using a 100t
masters license with aux sail endorsement operating an inspected
vessel and occassionally hiring sailboat captains for reef trips I
feel qualified to add a few comments to this threads food fight.

On hiring captains, I have had to hire a few..


the license only qualifies you for a job, what makes you a preferred
candidate will be:

EXPERIENCE with similar sized/type vessels.

LOCAL KNOWLEDGE of area marine life, reefs, Sanctuary regulations and
weather

MAINTENANCE SKILLS -- can you do routine maintenance, change a diesel
fuel filter and bleed the system get a fuel starved engine running?
can you change a water pump impeller?

Can you keep the vessel operating to Inspected vessel standards?
examples- keep flares in date, keep fire extinguishers certified,

Inspected passenger vessels are just that INSPECTED !

for those of you unfamiliar with Inspected vessels there are basically
two types of inspections, announced and unannounced;

announced inspections can be divided into three components;

Yard: When vessel is hauled, one aspect: remove all seacocks and/or
throughhull valves and present them for inspector, hull exterior,keel,
rudder inspected.

Annual Inspection all safety equipment reviewed, vessel condition
reviewed, all vessel paperwork (VHF station License, wastemanagement
plan, documentation, inspected vessel paperwork etc) Captains and
crews paperwork ( licenses aboard, radiotelephony certicate, ,
redcross first aid (3y) and CPR (1Y) uptodate, entered in Consortium
etc)

Announced inspection, this ***INCLUDES*** vessel OPERATION with MOB
drill, fire drill, etc.


unannounced MSO inspection, MSO officer just shows up unannounced and
checks equipment and paperwork.


then theres random spot inspections by regular coasties example:
I have been boarded at the reef and inspected while passengers were
snorkelling, I have been boarded (vessel to vessel) at the dock and
spot inspected as passengers were boarding...

so word gets out we need a relief captain and a not uncommon event
would be for a "license-qualified" capt to apply. He got his license
in New England and just moved to the keys. He fished new england for
xx years but knows nothing of our ecosystem, our marine life, our
weather. I CAN'T hire him when theres more qualified candidates
(usually mates who have worked locally on larger boats then gotten
licenses). I my experience the license qualified local "Yachties" who
applied for these jobs / had the license/ have the knowledge/ the
majority of the yachties are able to run the smaller boats, never had
a problem hiring a local to run the uninspected sloop (41'), the
bigger 20 passenger inspected vessel seemed to intimidate the yachties
and there was always a much smaller pool of people applying, having a
license only got your application on my desk. There was never a reason
for me to hire someone because they had XXX license; _everybody
applying_ has the license- the people we HIRED knew the waters, the
local regs, the marine life, the ecosystem... Only a few vessels in
Key West require more than 100t license, even the Western Union is
90t...

http://www.schoonerwesternunion.com/History.htm

"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"JN" wrote in message
. ..
Now you're qualified to take me for an evening sail next summer when I
spend
my annual week in the Keys and serve me a glass of wine when I demand
it,
serve me a snack when I want it, and in general put up with all my
garbage
because I won't give a tip if you don't ?????

Huh, cappy wappy? Is that what your paper gives you permission to do?


Thats the OZ yachtmaster ticket you must be talking about. I hear the
only pratical test a "yachtmaster" has to take, is how quick he can
get his knee pads on and off. Here in the USA licences are for working
mariners.

Joe, it appears that you know as much about the Yachtmaster qualification as
you do about international affairs.

One of the tests involves sitting at the chart table, with the ports blacked
out, and predicting your position to within a few metres.

In other words, you have to sail (and navigate) the boat "blind".

Do you have to do this for the USCG ticket?



Regards


Donal
--

The "chartwork" portion of the USCG test is actually rather demanding. Its not
so hard for those of us that learned to navigate the "old way," but a lot of
newcomers have trouble with running fixes, etc. I know several people that
passed the other portions but failed chartwork.

While its true that the Yachtmaster test has a real live "hands on" component
that is lacking in the USCG test, it is possible to get the highest level with
only 2 months experience. The "Coastal Skipper" only requires a few weeks.

On the other hand, 360 days of experience is required to get the lowest Master's
license. Its virtually impossible for the seasonal recreational sailor to get
this with less than 5 years experience. Even the "6-pack" Operators license
requires this. Neal's "Near Coastal" Master's license requires 720 days, half
of which must be "Near Coastal," which on the East Coast generally means 10
miles offshore, or outside of any protection. This is almost impossible to
accumulate without extended cruising or professional service.

The USCG license also has a series of tests, which take most of a day to
complete. The rules test, in particular, is closed book, requires 90% to pass,
and is rather tricky. In addition, there is a physical, drug test, first
aid/CPR class, etc.

And as Shen and Otn will point out, this is "entry level," and has little
meaning in larger vessels.



"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"JN" wrote in message
. ..
Now you're qualified to take me for an evening sail next summer when I
spend
my annual week in the Keys and serve me a glass of wine when I demand
it,
serve me a snack when I want it, and in general put up with all my
garbage
because I won't give a tip if you don't ?????

Huh, cappy wappy? Is that what your paper gives you permission to do?


Thats the OZ yachtmaster ticket you must be talking about. I hear the
only pratical test a "yachtmaster" has to take, is how quick he can
get his knee pads on and off. Here in the USA licences are for working
mariners.

Joe, it appears that you know as much about the Yachtmaster qualification as
you do about international affairs.

One of the tests involves sitting at the chart table, with the ports blacked
out, and predicting your position to within a few metres.

In other words, you have to sail (and navigate) the boat "blind".

Do you have to do this for the USCG ticket?



Regards


Donal
--

"Jeff Morris" wrote:

The USCG license also has a series of tests, which take most of a day to
complete. The rules test, in particular, is closed book, requires 90% to
pass,
and is rather tricky. In addition, there is a physical, drug test, first
aid/CPR class, etc.

And as Shen and Otn will point out, this is "entry level," and has little
meaning in larger vessels.

So what kind of license do you have to have to buy a Nordica 30 and sail it
in the USA?

LP