I can't speak to sailing in NE, but I can attest to the conditions out here.

There is a lot to offer inside the bay. It's actually quite large, and if
you
don't mind some long motoring, you can even make your way up the
delta to Sacramento. The sailing in the north part of the bay can be
quite challenging, especially if you're not used to the normal 20-30 kts
wind. 40 kts isn't unheard of and even higher happens from time to time.

There are no real waves, but it's not unusual to get 4-5 ft chop on the
higher wind days, especially when the current is opposing the wind. It
is not unusual to experience currents upward of 6 kts, lots of tanker
traffic,
heavy fog, and sharply cold conditions in the middle of summer, not to
mention the confusion of other traffic, both sail and power. You need to
know the rules for sure, and you have to know that a good 50% of the
people out there don't know the rules.

I've been sailing in the bay since the 80s, and I have yet to be bored
with places to sail to or areas to explore. There are some favorite
hangouts, such as Sam's or Ayala on Angel Island, but there is always
something going on elsewhere in the north bay. You don't need to be
confined by mooring balls or slips to spend a long weekend on the water.
There are many places to anchor out, which in some ways make for an
even nice overnight. For example, one great spot is on the back of Angel
across from the Southhampton Shoal area. It has good holding, not many
people, and it's very quiet.

For longer trips, you have access to up and down the coast, Monterey to
the south and Bolinas to the north, for example. There aren't any places to
stop between SF and either of those places... well, not really, but they do
make nice long weekend trips. There is also the Farallons, but you can't
get on the island. The conditions on the coast vary from damn nice to damn
unpleasent to damn dangerous. It is not unusual to have 10 foot waves just
outside the Golden Gate Bridge, but within the Golden Gate area.

Most people I know sail all year round, with the expection of heavy rain
or storms. It's actually warmer on the bay during the winter because the
wind is lighter and there isn't fog. It's quite hard to get tired of sailing
along
the SF city front at night, taking in the sights, sounds, and restaurant
smells.

There are lots and lots of clubs, organizations, charter companies, and
marinas
to rent boats through. If you want to email me, I'd be happy to give you my
list of the better ones. You'll find boats to rent that range from small
dinks to
50 foot monos and large cats.

Jonathan

"Intenost" wrote in message
...
Hello,

Hope this goes better then the last time I tried posting here.

Anyway, I'm contemplating a job-related relocation to the Bay area from
New
England. I'm hoping to get some comments on the sailing scene in the Bay
Area as compared to the Northeast (Mass/RI/Maine) coasts. I do mostly day
sailing with a few 2-3 days weekends and a couple of week long trips per
year. My weekends are usually up to Cape Ann or down to the Plymouth, and
the week long trips are usually to Martha's Vineyard/Nantucket, or P-town
and the Stellwagen bank for whale watching.

While the weather and the wind seems pretty decent in the Bay Area, I'm
wondering about the following:

-Is there a variety of places to visit, anchor, go ashore and explore like
there is in the Northeast, or is sailing mostly criss crossing the bay?

-How is sailing in the off-season? Even in Boston there are hardy souls
that do winter sailing/racing (kind of cool in the snow!) but I was
wondering how common it is for people to get out in the winter season.

-If I didn't want to buy a boat right away (I think the local housing
market
will take care of that) are there any recommended clubs to check out,
preferably that have a fleet with boats in the 24' - 30'-something size? I
mostly sail J-30's, and sometimes C&C 33's with an occasional J-24.

I get a sense that I'll miss all of the islands and harbors here in New
England. But I'm not sure what kind of destinations lie inside and
outside
the Bay. And of course it's closer to Seattle, and the San Juans, where I
really like to charter for a week and sail, and in the Bay it seems an
exciting ride is pretty much guaranteed on a regular basis.

Comments appreciated!

Thanks!

If you want to email me for info, use j _ g _ a _ n _ z @ sailnow . com,
using the usual edits, or visit my website (sailnow) for other contact
info.

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
I can't speak to sailing in NE, but I can attest to the conditions out
here.

There is a lot to offer inside the bay. It's actually quite large, and if
you
don't mind some long motoring, you can even make your way up the
delta to Sacramento. The sailing in the north part of the bay can be
quite challenging, especially if you're not used to the normal 20-30 kts
wind. 40 kts isn't unheard of and even higher happens from time to time.

There are no real waves, but it's not unusual to get 4-5 ft chop on the
higher wind days, especially when the current is opposing the wind. It
is not unusual to experience currents upward of 6 kts, lots of tanker
traffic,
heavy fog, and sharply cold conditions in the middle of summer, not to
mention the confusion of other traffic, both sail and power. You need to
know the rules for sure, and you have to know that a good 50% of the
people out there don't know the rules.

I've been sailing in the bay since the 80s, and I have yet to be bored
with places to sail to or areas to explore. There are some favorite
hangouts, such as Sam's or Ayala on Angel Island, but there is always
something going on elsewhere in the north bay. You don't need to be
confined by mooring balls or slips to spend a long weekend on the water.
There are many places to anchor out, which in some ways make for an
even nice overnight. For example, one great spot is on the back of Angel
across from the Southhampton Shoal area. It has good holding, not many
people, and it's very quiet.

For longer trips, you have access to up and down the coast, Monterey to
the south and Bolinas to the north, for example. There aren't any places
to
stop between SF and either of those places... well, not really, but they
do
make nice long weekend trips. There is also the Farallons, but you can't
get on the island. The conditions on the coast vary from damn nice to damn
unpleasent to damn dangerous. It is not unusual to have 10 foot waves just
outside the Golden Gate Bridge, but within the Golden Gate area.

Most people I know sail all year round, with the expection of heavy rain
or storms. It's actually warmer on the bay during the winter because the
wind is lighter and there isn't fog. It's quite hard to get tired of
sailing
along
the SF city front at night, taking in the sights, sounds, and restaurant
smells.

There are lots and lots of clubs, organizations, charter companies, and
marinas
to rent boats through. If you want to email me, I'd be happy to give you
my
list of the better ones. You'll find boats to rent that range from small
dinks to
50 foot monos and large cats.

Jonathan

"Intenost" wrote in message
...
Hello,

Hope this goes better then the last time I tried posting here.

Anyway, I'm contemplating a job-related relocation to the Bay area from
New
England. I'm hoping to get some comments on the sailing scene in the Bay
Area as compared to the Northeast (Mass/RI/Maine) coasts. I do mostly
day
sailing with a few 2-3 days weekends and a couple of week long trips per
year. My weekends are usually up to Cape Ann or down to the Plymouth,
and
the week long trips are usually to Martha's Vineyard/Nantucket, or
P-town
and the Stellwagen bank for whale watching.

While the weather and the wind seems pretty decent in the Bay Area, I'm
wondering about the following:

-Is there a variety of places to visit, anchor, go ashore and explore
like
there is in the Northeast, or is sailing mostly criss crossing the bay?

-How is sailing in the off-season? Even in Boston there are hardy souls

that do winter sailing/racing (kind of cool in the snow!) but I was
wondering how common it is for people to get out in the winter season.

-If I didn't want to buy a boat right away (I think the local housing
market
will take care of that) are there any recommended clubs to check out,
preferably that have a fleet with boats in the 24' - 30'-something size?
I
mostly sail J-30's, and sometimes C&C 33's with an occasional J-24.

I get a sense that I'll miss all of the islands and harbors here in New
England. But I'm not sure what kind of destinations lie inside and
outside
the Bay. And of course it's closer to Seattle, and the San Juans, where
I
really like to charter for a week and sail, and in the Bay it seems an
exciting ride is pretty much guaranteed on a regular basis.

Comments appreciated!

Thanks!

including some small time illegal ones. Eh, John?

Scotty

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote ...

There are lots and lots of clubs, organizations, charter companies, and
marinas
to rent boats through.

Not sure what you mean...?

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
including some small time illegal ones. Eh, John?

Scotty

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote ...

There are lots and lots of clubs, organizations, charter companies, and
marinas
to rent boats through.

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Not sure what you mean...?

It was pretty clear to me!



Regards

Donal
--



"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
including some small time illegal ones. Eh, John?

Scotty

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote ...

There are lots and lots of clubs, organizations, charter companies,
and
marinas
to rent boats through.

Well, I'm a bit naive I guess.

"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Not sure what you mean...?

It was pretty clear to me!



Regards

Donal
--



"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
including some small time illegal ones. Eh, John?

Scotty

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote ...

There are lots and lots of clubs, organizations, charter companies,
and
marinas
to rent boats through.

I grew up in Connecticut and spent 12 years sailing in San Francisco
while stationed there in the military.

You will find San Francisco will demand perfection and improve your
sailing skills. Be afraid of the cold water or it will kill you.
Would it help to convince you, if I gave you a list of the people who
have died by hypothermia and drowning in the last 20 years? It
happens often.

Never sail without a lifejacket and at least one other experienced
sailor on board. Sailing with rookies in San Francisco is
dangerous--sooner or later it will catch up to you. You will also
find plenty of good sailors there.

OCSC in Berkeley is the best sailing club if you don't want to buy a
boat. They have two dozen J-24's, a few higher performance boats in
the same size range, and a fleet of about 40 boats including many
boats in the 35' range, and the best sailing instruction in the world.
Now matter how much you think you know, you can learn more from these
people.

The East Bay has the sun while San Francisco is colder and cloudy.
The climate is mild enough that you could easily live on a big yacht
for much less money than purchasing a home. My advice--buy the
biggest boat you can afford and live on it in the Berkeley Marina or
somewhere in the East Bay. Other locations would work, but not give
such easy access to the Bay. Marina Green in San Francisco would be
an awesome place to liveaboard also, with the tradeoff being direct
access to the city, less sun, and no need for a car--if you can find a
slip.

The best sailing is the central bay from the Golden Gate east to
Berkeley and the area from Racoon Straits to Yuerba Buena Island.
This is the Mecca for planning keelboats. Buy a Melges 24 and you
will never need drugs or alcohol for a nosebleed, white knuckle,
avalanche of fun. Be warned, you may be ruined for sailing anywhere
else again--it will make you into a storm chaser. You will never want
to sail with rookies ever again. The only better sailing I've seen is
in the Virgin Islands.

The three racing yacht clubs are the Richmond Yaht Club, Saint Francis
Yacht Club, and San Franciso Yacht Club. All are very nice. The
Richmond is more down to earth, the St Francis is the most exclusive,
has the best racing vantage and the best dining, while the San
Francisco YC has the best city view--especially near sunset, and best
buffet in the world. For non-racers there are many other fine yacht
clubs. If you want to race, pick a class boat you like, join it and
sign up on a crew list--someone will call. Be prepared to make a
committment to any boat you sign up on--don't miss a race for any
reason and your reputation will spread.

Do not expect to harbor hop around the Bay, there is nothing like New
England cruising out there. Most people compete for moorings at Angel
Island--get there very early, dawn, and bring two bicycles and a pot
of marinaded kabobes. There is a Bed and Breakfast on or near Red
Rock---more of a tourist place than a destination for sailors.

Night sailing will never bore you and has to be the best in the world
along the city front, although I've heard that Sydney Harbor might
have it beat. Be sure to have extra spotters with assignments on
where you want them to look--it is a big help with all the city
lights. Plan trips with the strong currents.

Racing is huge because cruising is more limited. The benefit of that
is there are lots of racing activities and always a party planned at
the end of the event. If you are a real cruiser, you will likely end
up sailing to Hawaii--about 15 days. It is easy to navigate to
Hawaii, go out the Golden Gate, head south until the butter melts, and
then take a right, and follow the airliners at night.

If you want to cruise, Mexico is the most popular destination although
most people motor back and dread the trip. If you try to sail back,
the wind and waves will make forward progress so slow that you are
sure to regret getting caught in very nasty weather.

If want to cruise--a smart move would be to buy a trailerable boat and
take it both North and South by trailer to cruise both Washington, and
Mexico to places like Desolation Sound, and the Sea of Cortez.
Nothing goes to weather like a 747, and the next best thing is a
pickup with a trailer to get upwind in a hurry. Something like a
Melges 24, or a Corsair 27 would be both easy to launch and trailer,
and could be pulled by anything.

If you go out the Golden Gate, expect nasty weather, and huge
waves--especially in the Potato Patch--don't go there, and nothing but
an unforgiving rocky lee shore that has claimed many lives, yachts,
and ships, with no such thing as a second chance.

The Farralone Islands are popular destinations for racers, seals,
Great White Sharks, birds, and billions of flies--stay well off.

Winter sailing means light winds unless a front is coming through.
Boats often stay in the water year round. If you winter race be
prepared to anchor as the currents can be stronger than the wind. The
air temperature might go below freezing 3-4 times in six years. About
15-20% of the people race and sail year round.

Have fun. You are in for a great time.

Bart Senior

Some minor edits...

"N1EE" wrote in message
om...
I grew up in Connecticut and spent 12 years sailing in San Francisco
while stationed there in the military.

Damn right.

You will find San Francisco will demand perfection and improve your
sailing skills. Be afraid of the cold water or it will kill you.
Would it help to convince you, if I gave you a list of the people who
have died by hypothermia and drowning in the last 20 years? It
happens often.

Damn right.

Never sail without a lifejacket and at least one other experienced
sailor on board. Sailing with rookies in San Francisco is
dangerous--sooner or later it will catch up to you. You will also
find plenty of good sailors there.

For a commercial operation, you're probably right, although there
are others around that do a pretty decent job... e.g., Modern Sailing
in Sausalito (disclaimer, I'm a member - www.modernsailing.com). They
have great instructors and an amazing location.

There are also a number of non-profit orgs that have good instruction,
but not quite the breadth of boats. For example Sailing Education
Adventures (disclaimer, I'm a member - www.sailsea.org). The advantage
of S.E.A. is that the boat rental costs are far, far below the cost of
commercial outfits.

OCSC in Berkeley is the best sailing club if you don't want to buy a
boat. They have two dozen J-24's, a few higher performance boats in
the same size range, and a fleet of about 40 boats including many
boats in the 35' range, and the best sailing instruction in the world.
Now matter how much you think you know, you can learn more from these
people.

This is also pretty true of Sausalito (disclaimer, this where I sail from).
The
prices are fairly reasonable also, but are going up (of course).

The East Bay has the sun while San Francisco is colder and cloudy.
The climate is mild enough that you could easily live on a big yacht
for much less money than purchasing a home. My advice--buy the
biggest boat you can afford and live on it in the Berkeley Marina or
somewhere in the East Bay. Other locations would work, but not give
such easy access to the Bay. Marina Green in San Francisco would be
an awesome place to liveaboard also, with the tradeoff being direct
access to the city, less sun, and no need for a car--if you can find a
slip.

The best sailing is the central bay from the Golden Gate east to
Berkeley and the area from Racoon Straits to Yuerba Buena Island.
This is the Mecca for planning keelboats. Buy a Melges 24 and you
will never need drugs or alcohol for a nosebleed, white knuckle,
avalanche of fun. Be warned, you may be ruined for sailing anywhere
else again--it will make you into a storm chaser. You will never want
to sail with rookies ever again. The only better sailing I've seen is
in the Virgin Islands.

The three racing yacht clubs are the Richmond Yaht Club, Saint Francis
Yacht Club, and San Franciso Yacht Club. All are very nice. The
Richmond is more down to earth, the St Francis is the most exclusive,
has the best racing vantage and the best dining, while the San
Francisco YC has the best city view--especially near sunset, and best
buffet in the world. For non-racers there are many other fine yacht
clubs. If you want to race, pick a class boat you like, join it and
sign up on a crew list--someone will call. Be prepared to make a
committment to any boat you sign up on--don't miss a race for any
reason and your reputation will spread.

The B&B is further inside San Pablo Bay... I believe it's on one of
the Brothers.

Do not expect to harbor hop around the Bay, there is nothing like New
England cruising out there. Most people compete for moorings at Angel
Island--get there very early, dawn, and bring two bicycles and a pot
of marinaded kabobes. There is a Bed and Breakfast on or near Red
Rock---more of a tourist place than a destination for sailors.

Night sailing will never bore you and has to be the best in the world
along the city front, although I've heard that Sydney Harbor might
have it beat. Be sure to have extra spotters with assignments on
where you want them to look--it is a big help with all the city
lights. Plan trips with the strong currents.

Racing is huge because cruising is more limited. The benefit of that
is there are lots of racing activities and always a party planned at
the end of the event. If you are a real cruiser, you will likely end
up sailing to Hawaii--about 15 days. It is easy to navigate to
Hawaii, go out the Golden Gate, head south until the butter melts, and
then take a right, and follow the airliners at night.

It's possible to do it without having too terrible a time. You just have
to get lucky.

If you want to cruise, Mexico is the most popular destination although
most people motor back and dread the trip. If you try to sail back,
the wind and waves will make forward progress so slow that you are
sure to regret getting caught in very nasty weather.

If want to cruise--a smart move would be to buy a trailerable boat and
take it both North and South by trailer to cruise both Washington, and
Mexico to places like Desolation Sound, and the Sea of Cortez.
Nothing goes to weather like a 747, and the next best thing is a
pickup with a trailer to get upwind in a hurry. Something like a
Melges 24, or a Corsair 27 would be both easy to launch and trailer,
and could be pulled by anything.

If you go out the Golden Gate, expect nasty weather, and huge
waves--especially in the Potato Patch--don't go there, and nothing but
an unforgiving rocky lee shore that has claimed many lives, yachts,
and ships, with no such thing as a second chance.

Well, well off. Also, people die out there all the time.

The Farralone Islands are popular destinations for racers, seals,
Great White Sharks, birds, and billions of flies--stay well off.

Winter sailing means light winds unless a front is coming through.
Boats often stay in the water year round. If you winter race be
prepared to anchor as the currents can be stronger than the wind. The
air temperature might go below freezing 3-4 times in six years. About
15-20% of the people race and sail year round.

Have fun. You are in for a great time.

Bart Senior

Thanks for the gay perspective, Jon, I'm sure
RickyTickyTugs and Bobsprit will appreciate it.

S.Simon


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ...
Some minor edits...

"N1EE" wrote in message
om...
I grew up in Connecticut and spent 12 years sailing in San Francisco
while stationed there in the military.

Damn right.

You will find San Francisco will demand perfection and improve your
sailing skills. Be afraid of the cold water or it will kill you.
Would it help to convince you, if I gave you a list of the people who
have died by hypothermia and drowning in the last 20 years? It
happens often.

Damn right.

Never sail without a lifejacket and at least one other experienced
sailor on board. Sailing with rookies in San Francisco is
dangerous--sooner or later it will catch up to you. You will also
find plenty of good sailors there.

For a commercial operation, you're probably right, although there
are others around that do a pretty decent job... e.g., Modern Sailing
in Sausalito (disclaimer, I'm a member - www.modernsailing.com). They
have great instructors and an amazing location.

There are also a number of non-profit orgs that have good instruction,
but not quite the breadth of boats. For example Sailing Education
Adventures (disclaimer, I'm a member - www.sailsea.org). The advantage
of S.E.A. is that the boat rental costs are far, far below the cost of
commercial outfits.

OCSC in Berkeley is the best sailing club if you don't want to buy a
boat. They have two dozen J-24's, a few higher performance boats in
the same size range, and a fleet of about 40 boats including many
boats in the 35' range, and the best sailing instruction in the world.
Now matter how much you think you know, you can learn more from these
people.

This is also pretty true of Sausalito (disclaimer, this where I sail from).
The
prices are fairly reasonable also, but are going up (of course).

The East Bay has the sun while San Francisco is colder and cloudy.
The climate is mild enough that you could easily live on a big yacht
for much less money than purchasing a home. My advice--buy the
biggest boat you can afford and live on it in the Berkeley Marina or
somewhere in the East Bay. Other locations would work, but not give
such easy access to the Bay. Marina Green in San Francisco would be
an awesome place to liveaboard also, with the tradeoff being direct
access to the city, less sun, and no need for a car--if you can find a
slip.

The best sailing is the central bay from the Golden Gate east to
Berkeley and the area from Racoon Straits to Yuerba Buena Island.
This is the Mecca for planning keelboats. Buy a Melges 24 and you
will never need drugs or alcohol for a nosebleed, white knuckle,
avalanche of fun. Be warned, you may be ruined for sailing anywhere
else again--it will make you into a storm chaser. You will never want
to sail with rookies ever again. The only better sailing I've seen is
in the Virgin Islands.

The three racing yacht clubs are the Richmond Yaht Club, Saint Francis
Yacht Club, and San Franciso Yacht Club. All are very nice. The
Richmond is more down to earth, the St Francis is the most exclusive,
has the best racing vantage and the best dining, while the San
Francisco YC has the best city view--especially near sunset, and best
buffet in the world. For non-racers there are many other fine yacht
clubs. If you want to race, pick a class boat you like, join it and
sign up on a crew list--someone will call. Be prepared to make a
committment to any boat you sign up on--don't miss a race for any
reason and your reputation will spread.

The B&B is further inside San Pablo Bay... I believe it's on one of
the Brothers.

Do not expect to harbor hop around the Bay, there is nothing like New
England cruising out there. Most people compete for moorings at Angel
Island--get there very early, dawn, and bring two bicycles and a pot
of marinaded kabobes. There is a Bed and Breakfast on or near Red
Rock---more of a tourist place than a destination for sailors.

Night sailing will never bore you and has to be the best in the world
along the city front, although I've heard that Sydney Harbor might
have it beat. Be sure to have extra spotters with assignments on
where you want them to look--it is a big help with all the city
lights. Plan trips with the strong currents.

Racing is huge because cruising is more limited. The benefit of that
is there are lots of racing activities and always a party planned at
the end of the event. If you are a real cruiser, you will likely end
up sailing to Hawaii--about 15 days. It is easy to navigate to
Hawaii, go out the Golden Gate, head south until the butter melts, and
then take a right, and follow the airliners at night.

It's possible to do it without having too terrible a time. You just have
to get lucky.

If you want to cruise, Mexico is the most popular destination although
most people motor back and dread the trip. If you try to sail back,
the wind and waves will make forward progress so slow that you are
sure to regret getting caught in very nasty weather.

If want to cruise--a smart move would be to buy a trailerable boat and
take it both North and South by trailer to cruise both Washington, and
Mexico to places like Desolation Sound, and the Sea of Cortez.
Nothing goes to weather like a 747, and the next best thing is a
pickup with a trailer to get upwind in a hurry. Something like a
Melges 24, or a Corsair 27 would be both easy to launch and trailer,
and could be pulled by anything.

If you go out the Golden Gate, expect nasty weather, and huge
waves--especially in the Potato Patch--don't go there, and nothing but
an unforgiving rocky lee shore that has claimed many lives, yachts,
and ships, with no such thing as a second chance.

Well, well off. Also, people die out there all the time.

The Farralone Islands are popular destinations for racers, seals,
Great White Sharks, birds, and billions of flies--stay well off.

Winter sailing means light winds unless a front is coming through.
Boats often stay in the water year round. If you winter race be
prepared to anchor as the currents can be stronger than the wind. The
air temperature might go below freezing 3-4 times in six years. About
15-20% of the people race and sail year round.

Have fun. You are in for a great time.

Bart Senior

Hey Craz,

I don't believe your Hong Kong Sails would last a season on SF Bay. It
is a great, ruget sailing area. A place where sailor and equipment are
put to the full test often.

Ole Thom