"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Not sure what you mean...?

It was pretty clear to me!



Regards

Donal
--



"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
including some small time illegal ones. Eh, John?

Scotty

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote ...

There are lots and lots of clubs, organizations, charter companies,
and
marinas
to rent boats through.

Well, I'm a bit naive I guess.

"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Not sure what you mean...?

It was pretty clear to me!



Regards

Donal
--



"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
including some small time illegal ones. Eh, John?

Scotty

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote ...

There are lots and lots of clubs, organizations, charter companies,
and
marinas
to rent boats through.

I grew up in Connecticut and spent 12 years sailing in San Francisco
while stationed there in the military.

You will find San Francisco will demand perfection and improve your
sailing skills. Be afraid of the cold water or it will kill you.
Would it help to convince you, if I gave you a list of the people who
have died by hypothermia and drowning in the last 20 years? It
happens often.

Never sail without a lifejacket and at least one other experienced
sailor on board. Sailing with rookies in San Francisco is
dangerous--sooner or later it will catch up to you. You will also
find plenty of good sailors there.

OCSC in Berkeley is the best sailing club if you don't want to buy a
boat. They have two dozen J-24's, a few higher performance boats in
the same size range, and a fleet of about 40 boats including many
boats in the 35' range, and the best sailing instruction in the world.
Now matter how much you think you know, you can learn more from these
people.

The East Bay has the sun while San Francisco is colder and cloudy.
The climate is mild enough that you could easily live on a big yacht
for much less money than purchasing a home. My advice--buy the
biggest boat you can afford and live on it in the Berkeley Marina or
somewhere in the East Bay. Other locations would work, but not give
such easy access to the Bay. Marina Green in San Francisco would be
an awesome place to liveaboard also, with the tradeoff being direct
access to the city, less sun, and no need for a car--if you can find a
slip.

The best sailing is the central bay from the Golden Gate east to
Berkeley and the area from Racoon Straits to Yuerba Buena Island.
This is the Mecca for planning keelboats. Buy a Melges 24 and you
will never need drugs or alcohol for a nosebleed, white knuckle,
avalanche of fun. Be warned, you may be ruined for sailing anywhere
else again--it will make you into a storm chaser. You will never want
to sail with rookies ever again. The only better sailing I've seen is
in the Virgin Islands.

The three racing yacht clubs are the Richmond Yaht Club, Saint Francis
Yacht Club, and San Franciso Yacht Club. All are very nice. The
Richmond is more down to earth, the St Francis is the most exclusive,
has the best racing vantage and the best dining, while the San
Francisco YC has the best city view--especially near sunset, and best
buffet in the world. For non-racers there are many other fine yacht
clubs. If you want to race, pick a class boat you like, join it and
sign up on a crew list--someone will call. Be prepared to make a
committment to any boat you sign up on--don't miss a race for any
reason and your reputation will spread.

Do not expect to harbor hop around the Bay, there is nothing like New
England cruising out there. Most people compete for moorings at Angel
Island--get there very early, dawn, and bring two bicycles and a pot
of marinaded kabobes. There is a Bed and Breakfast on or near Red
Rock---more of a tourist place than a destination for sailors.

Night sailing will never bore you and has to be the best in the world
along the city front, although I've heard that Sydney Harbor might
have it beat. Be sure to have extra spotters with assignments on
where you want them to look--it is a big help with all the city
lights. Plan trips with the strong currents.

Racing is huge because cruising is more limited. The benefit of that
is there are lots of racing activities and always a party planned at
the end of the event. If you are a real cruiser, you will likely end
up sailing to Hawaii--about 15 days. It is easy to navigate to
Hawaii, go out the Golden Gate, head south until the butter melts, and
then take a right, and follow the airliners at night.

If you want to cruise, Mexico is the most popular destination although
most people motor back and dread the trip. If you try to sail back,
the wind and waves will make forward progress so slow that you are
sure to regret getting caught in very nasty weather.

If want to cruise--a smart move would be to buy a trailerable boat and
take it both North and South by trailer to cruise both Washington, and
Mexico to places like Desolation Sound, and the Sea of Cortez.
Nothing goes to weather like a 747, and the next best thing is a
pickup with a trailer to get upwind in a hurry. Something like a
Melges 24, or a Corsair 27 would be both easy to launch and trailer,
and could be pulled by anything.

If you go out the Golden Gate, expect nasty weather, and huge
waves--especially in the Potato Patch--don't go there, and nothing but
an unforgiving rocky lee shore that has claimed many lives, yachts,
and ships, with no such thing as a second chance.

The Farralone Islands are popular destinations for racers, seals,
Great White Sharks, birds, and billions of flies--stay well off.

Winter sailing means light winds unless a front is coming through.
Boats often stay in the water year round. If you winter race be
prepared to anchor as the currents can be stronger than the wind. The
air temperature might go below freezing 3-4 times in six years. About
15-20% of the people race and sail year round.

Have fun. You are in for a great time.

Bart Senior

Some minor edits...

"N1EE" wrote in message
om...
I grew up in Connecticut and spent 12 years sailing in San Francisco
while stationed there in the military.

Damn right.

You will find San Francisco will demand perfection and improve your
sailing skills. Be afraid of the cold water or it will kill you.
Would it help to convince you, if I gave you a list of the people who
have died by hypothermia and drowning in the last 20 years? It
happens often.

Damn right.

Never sail without a lifejacket and at least one other experienced
sailor on board. Sailing with rookies in San Francisco is
dangerous--sooner or later it will catch up to you. You will also
find plenty of good sailors there.

For a commercial operation, you're probably right, although there
are others around that do a pretty decent job... e.g., Modern Sailing
in Sausalito (disclaimer, I'm a member - www.modernsailing.com). They
have great instructors and an amazing location.

There are also a number of non-profit orgs that have good instruction,
but not quite the breadth of boats. For example Sailing Education
Adventures (disclaimer, I'm a member - www.sailsea.org). The advantage
of S.E.A. is that the boat rental costs are far, far below the cost of
commercial outfits.

OCSC in Berkeley is the best sailing club if you don't want to buy a
boat. They have two dozen J-24's, a few higher performance boats in
the same size range, and a fleet of about 40 boats including many
boats in the 35' range, and the best sailing instruction in the world.
Now matter how much you think you know, you can learn more from these
people.

This is also pretty true of Sausalito (disclaimer, this where I sail from).
The
prices are fairly reasonable also, but are going up (of course).

The East Bay has the sun while San Francisco is colder and cloudy.
The climate is mild enough that you could easily live on a big yacht
for much less money than purchasing a home. My advice--buy the
biggest boat you can afford and live on it in the Berkeley Marina or
somewhere in the East Bay. Other locations would work, but not give
such easy access to the Bay. Marina Green in San Francisco would be
an awesome place to liveaboard also, with the tradeoff being direct
access to the city, less sun, and no need for a car--if you can find a
slip.

The best sailing is the central bay from the Golden Gate east to
Berkeley and the area from Racoon Straits to Yuerba Buena Island.
This is the Mecca for planning keelboats. Buy a Melges 24 and you
will never need drugs or alcohol for a nosebleed, white knuckle,
avalanche of fun. Be warned, you may be ruined for sailing anywhere
else again--it will make you into a storm chaser. You will never want
to sail with rookies ever again. The only better sailing I've seen is
in the Virgin Islands.

The three racing yacht clubs are the Richmond Yaht Club, Saint Francis
Yacht Club, and San Franciso Yacht Club. All are very nice. The
Richmond is more down to earth, the St Francis is the most exclusive,
has the best racing vantage and the best dining, while the San
Francisco YC has the best city view--especially near sunset, and best
buffet in the world. For non-racers there are many other fine yacht
clubs. If you want to race, pick a class boat you like, join it and
sign up on a crew list--someone will call. Be prepared to make a
committment to any boat you sign up on--don't miss a race for any
reason and your reputation will spread.

The B&B is further inside San Pablo Bay... I believe it's on one of
the Brothers.

Do not expect to harbor hop around the Bay, there is nothing like New
England cruising out there. Most people compete for moorings at Angel
Island--get there very early, dawn, and bring two bicycles and a pot
of marinaded kabobes. There is a Bed and Breakfast on or near Red
Rock---more of a tourist place than a destination for sailors.

Night sailing will never bore you and has to be the best in the world
along the city front, although I've heard that Sydney Harbor might
have it beat. Be sure to have extra spotters with assignments on
where you want them to look--it is a big help with all the city
lights. Plan trips with the strong currents.

Racing is huge because cruising is more limited. The benefit of that
is there are lots of racing activities and always a party planned at
the end of the event. If you are a real cruiser, you will likely end
up sailing to Hawaii--about 15 days. It is easy to navigate to
Hawaii, go out the Golden Gate, head south until the butter melts, and
then take a right, and follow the airliners at night.

It's possible to do it without having too terrible a time. You just have
to get lucky.

If you want to cruise, Mexico is the most popular destination although
most people motor back and dread the trip. If you try to sail back,
the wind and waves will make forward progress so slow that you are
sure to regret getting caught in very nasty weather.

If want to cruise--a smart move would be to buy a trailerable boat and
take it both North and South by trailer to cruise both Washington, and
Mexico to places like Desolation Sound, and the Sea of Cortez.
Nothing goes to weather like a 747, and the next best thing is a
pickup with a trailer to get upwind in a hurry. Something like a
Melges 24, or a Corsair 27 would be both easy to launch and trailer,
and could be pulled by anything.

If you go out the Golden Gate, expect nasty weather, and huge
waves--especially in the Potato Patch--don't go there, and nothing but
an unforgiving rocky lee shore that has claimed many lives, yachts,
and ships, with no such thing as a second chance.

Well, well off. Also, people die out there all the time.

The Farralone Islands are popular destinations for racers, seals,
Great White Sharks, birds, and billions of flies--stay well off.

Winter sailing means light winds unless a front is coming through.
Boats often stay in the water year round. If you winter race be
prepared to anchor as the currents can be stronger than the wind. The
air temperature might go below freezing 3-4 times in six years. About
15-20% of the people race and sail year round.

Have fun. You are in for a great time.

Bart Senior

Thanks for the gay perspective, Jon, I'm sure
RickyTickyTugs and Bobsprit will appreciate it.

S.Simon


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ...
Some minor edits...

"N1EE" wrote in message
om...
I grew up in Connecticut and spent 12 years sailing in San Francisco
while stationed there in the military.

Damn right.

You will find San Francisco will demand perfection and improve your
sailing skills. Be afraid of the cold water or it will kill you.
Would it help to convince you, if I gave you a list of the people who
have died by hypothermia and drowning in the last 20 years? It
happens often.

Damn right.

Never sail without a lifejacket and at least one other experienced
sailor on board. Sailing with rookies in San Francisco is
dangerous--sooner or later it will catch up to you. You will also
find plenty of good sailors there.

For a commercial operation, you're probably right, although there
are others around that do a pretty decent job... e.g., Modern Sailing
in Sausalito (disclaimer, I'm a member - www.modernsailing.com). They
have great instructors and an amazing location.

There are also a number of non-profit orgs that have good instruction,
but not quite the breadth of boats. For example Sailing Education
Adventures (disclaimer, I'm a member - www.sailsea.org). The advantage
of S.E.A. is that the boat rental costs are far, far below the cost of
commercial outfits.

OCSC in Berkeley is the best sailing club if you don't want to buy a
boat. They have two dozen J-24's, a few higher performance boats in
the same size range, and a fleet of about 40 boats including many
boats in the 35' range, and the best sailing instruction in the world.
Now matter how much you think you know, you can learn more from these
people.

This is also pretty true of Sausalito (disclaimer, this where I sail from).
The
prices are fairly reasonable also, but are going up (of course).

The East Bay has the sun while San Francisco is colder and cloudy.
The climate is mild enough that you could easily live on a big yacht
for much less money than purchasing a home. My advice--buy the
biggest boat you can afford and live on it in the Berkeley Marina or
somewhere in the East Bay. Other locations would work, but not give
such easy access to the Bay. Marina Green in San Francisco would be
an awesome place to liveaboard also, with the tradeoff being direct
access to the city, less sun, and no need for a car--if you can find a
slip.

The best sailing is the central bay from the Golden Gate east to
Berkeley and the area from Racoon Straits to Yuerba Buena Island.
This is the Mecca for planning keelboats. Buy a Melges 24 and you
will never need drugs or alcohol for a nosebleed, white knuckle,
avalanche of fun. Be warned, you may be ruined for sailing anywhere
else again--it will make you into a storm chaser. You will never want
to sail with rookies ever again. The only better sailing I've seen is
in the Virgin Islands.

The three racing yacht clubs are the Richmond Yaht Club, Saint Francis
Yacht Club, and San Franciso Yacht Club. All are very nice. The
Richmond is more down to earth, the St Francis is the most exclusive,
has the best racing vantage and the best dining, while the San
Francisco YC has the best city view--especially near sunset, and best
buffet in the world. For non-racers there are many other fine yacht
clubs. If you want to race, pick a class boat you like, join it and
sign up on a crew list--someone will call. Be prepared to make a
committment to any boat you sign up on--don't miss a race for any
reason and your reputation will spread.

The B&B is further inside San Pablo Bay... I believe it's on one of
the Brothers.

Do not expect to harbor hop around the Bay, there is nothing like New
England cruising out there. Most people compete for moorings at Angel
Island--get there very early, dawn, and bring two bicycles and a pot
of marinaded kabobes. There is a Bed and Breakfast on or near Red
Rock---more of a tourist place than a destination for sailors.

Night sailing will never bore you and has to be the best in the world
along the city front, although I've heard that Sydney Harbor might
have it beat. Be sure to have extra spotters with assignments on
where you want them to look--it is a big help with all the city
lights. Plan trips with the strong currents.

Racing is huge because cruising is more limited. The benefit of that
is there are lots of racing activities and always a party planned at
the end of the event. If you are a real cruiser, you will likely end
up sailing to Hawaii--about 15 days. It is easy to navigate to
Hawaii, go out the Golden Gate, head south until the butter melts, and
then take a right, and follow the airliners at night.

It's possible to do it without having too terrible a time. You just have
to get lucky.

If you want to cruise, Mexico is the most popular destination although
most people motor back and dread the trip. If you try to sail back,
the wind and waves will make forward progress so slow that you are
sure to regret getting caught in very nasty weather.

If want to cruise--a smart move would be to buy a trailerable boat and
take it both North and South by trailer to cruise both Washington, and
Mexico to places like Desolation Sound, and the Sea of Cortez.
Nothing goes to weather like a 747, and the next best thing is a
pickup with a trailer to get upwind in a hurry. Something like a
Melges 24, or a Corsair 27 would be both easy to launch and trailer,
and could be pulled by anything.

If you go out the Golden Gate, expect nasty weather, and huge
waves--especially in the Potato Patch--don't go there, and nothing but
an unforgiving rocky lee shore that has claimed many lives, yachts,
and ships, with no such thing as a second chance.

Well, well off. Also, people die out there all the time.

The Farralone Islands are popular destinations for racers, seals,
Great White Sharks, birds, and billions of flies--stay well off.

Winter sailing means light winds unless a front is coming through.
Boats often stay in the water year round. If you winter race be
prepared to anchor as the currents can be stronger than the wind. The
air temperature might go below freezing 3-4 times in six years. About
15-20% of the people race and sail year round.

Have fun. You are in for a great time.

Bart Senior

Hey Craz,

I don't believe your Hong Kong Sails would last a season on SF Bay. It
is a great, ruget sailing area. A place where sailor and equipment are
put to the full test often.

Ole Thom

Gee, I thought you were the one giving that....

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the gay perspective, Jon, I'm sure
RickyTickyTugs and Bobsprit will appreciate it.

S.Simon


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Some minor edits...

"N1EE" wrote in message
om...
I grew up in Connecticut and spent 12 years sailing in San Francisco
while stationed there in the military.

Damn right.

You will find San Francisco will demand perfection and improve your
sailing skills. Be afraid of the cold water or it will kill you.
Would it help to convince you, if I gave you a list of the people who
have died by hypothermia and drowning in the last 20 years? It
happens often.

Damn right.

Never sail without a lifejacket and at least one other experienced
sailor on board. Sailing with rookies in San Francisco is
dangerous--sooner or later it will catch up to you. You will also
find plenty of good sailors there.

For a commercial operation, you're probably right, although there
are others around that do a pretty decent job... e.g., Modern Sailing
in Sausalito (disclaimer, I'm a member - www.modernsailing.com). They
have great instructors and an amazing location.

There are also a number of non-profit orgs that have good instruction,
but not quite the breadth of boats. For example Sailing Education
Adventures (disclaimer, I'm a member - www.sailsea.org). The advantage
of S.E.A. is that the boat rental costs are far, far below the cost of
commercial outfits.

OCSC in Berkeley is the best sailing club if you don't want to buy a
boat. They have two dozen J-24's, a few higher performance boats in
the same size range, and a fleet of about 40 boats including many
boats in the 35' range, and the best sailing instruction in the world.
Now matter how much you think you know, you can learn more from these
people.

This is also pretty true of Sausalito (disclaimer, this where I sail
from).
The
prices are fairly reasonable also, but are going up (of course).

The East Bay has the sun while San Francisco is colder and cloudy.
The climate is mild enough that you could easily live on a big yacht
for much less money than purchasing a home. My advice--buy the
biggest boat you can afford and live on it in the Berkeley Marina or
somewhere in the East Bay. Other locations would work, but not give
such easy access to the Bay. Marina Green in San Francisco would be
an awesome place to liveaboard also, with the tradeoff being direct
access to the city, less sun, and no need for a car--if you can find a
slip.

The best sailing is the central bay from the Golden Gate east to
Berkeley and the area from Racoon Straits to Yuerba Buena Island.
This is the Mecca for planning keelboats. Buy a Melges 24 and you
will never need drugs or alcohol for a nosebleed, white knuckle,
avalanche of fun. Be warned, you may be ruined for sailing anywhere
else again--it will make you into a storm chaser. You will never want
to sail with rookies ever again. The only better sailing I've seen is
in the Virgin Islands.

The three racing yacht clubs are the Richmond Yaht Club, Saint Francis
Yacht Club, and San Franciso Yacht Club. All are very nice. The
Richmond is more down to earth, the St Francis is the most exclusive,
has the best racing vantage and the best dining, while the San
Francisco YC has the best city view--especially near sunset, and best
buffet in the world. For non-racers there are many other fine yacht
clubs. If you want to race, pick a class boat you like, join it and
sign up on a crew list--someone will call. Be prepared to make a
committment to any boat you sign up on--don't miss a race for any
reason and your reputation will spread.

The B&B is further inside San Pablo Bay... I believe it's on one of
the Brothers.

Do not expect to harbor hop around the Bay, there is nothing like New
England cruising out there. Most people compete for moorings at Angel
Island--get there very early, dawn, and bring two bicycles and a pot
of marinaded kabobes. There is a Bed and Breakfast on or near Red
Rock---more of a tourist place than a destination for sailors.

Night sailing will never bore you and has to be the best in the world
along the city front, although I've heard that Sydney Harbor might
have it beat. Be sure to have extra spotters with assignments on
where you want them to look--it is a big help with all the city
lights. Plan trips with the strong currents.

Racing is huge because cruising is more limited. The benefit of that
is there are lots of racing activities and always a party planned at
the end of the event. If you are a real cruiser, you will likely end
up sailing to Hawaii--about 15 days. It is easy to navigate to
Hawaii, go out the Golden Gate, head south until the butter melts, and
then take a right, and follow the airliners at night.

It's possible to do it without having too terrible a time. You just have
to get lucky.

If you want to cruise, Mexico is the most popular destination although
most people motor back and dread the trip. If you try to sail back,
the wind and waves will make forward progress so slow that you are
sure to regret getting caught in very nasty weather.

If want to cruise--a smart move would be to buy a trailerable boat and
take it both North and South by trailer to cruise both Washington, and
Mexico to places like Desolation Sound, and the Sea of Cortez.
Nothing goes to weather like a 747, and the next best thing is a
pickup with a trailer to get upwind in a hurry. Something like a
Melges 24, or a Corsair 27 would be both easy to launch and trailer,
and could be pulled by anything.

If you go out the Golden Gate, expect nasty weather, and huge
waves--especially in the Potato Patch--don't go there, and nothing but
an unforgiving rocky lee shore that has claimed many lives, yachts,
and ships, with no such thing as a second chance.

Well, well off. Also, people die out there all the time.

The Farralone Islands are popular destinations for racers, seals,
Great White Sharks, birds, and billions of flies--stay well off.

Winter sailing means light winds unless a front is coming through.
Boats often stay in the water year round. If you winter race be
prepared to anchor as the currents can be stronger than the wind. The
air temperature might go below freezing 3-4 times in six years. About
15-20% of the people race and sail year round.

Have fun. You are in for a great time.

Bart Senior

I don't know about the sails. I do know Neal wouldn't last 10 minutes.

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Hey Craz,

I don't believe your Hong Kong Sails would last a season on SF Bay. It
is a great, ruget sailing area. A place where sailor and equipment are
put to the full test often.

Ole Thom

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Well, I'm a bit naive I guess.

Naive .... or still engaging in illegal chartering?

You know the address to send complaints to.


Regards


Donal
--




"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Not sure what you mean...?

It was pretty clear to me!



Regards

Donal
--



"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
including some small time illegal ones. Eh, John?

Scotty

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote ...

There are lots and lots of clubs, organizations, charter
companies,
and
marinas
to rent boats through.

Thanks! Jon, Thom, Bart, et al, appreciate all of the great info. So looks
like I'm in for some challenging sailing, and hopefully will have the time
to get into the racing scene, although I've been more of a cruising sailor
the last decade or so. I did charter a boat, J-24 I think, out of Sausalito
once, and had quite a ride, in fact I watched another boat get dismasted,
dramatic, although nobody was hurt, and local boaters and S&R got there in a
hurry. Funny, I thought I would get grilled by the charter outfit, being an
out of towner on a pretty rough day, but all they did was asked me to put a
double reef in the main at the dock, and then they said, "have fun" which I
did! But I was wondering about the crusing opportunities there as I feel
kind of spoiled by New England, with all the coves and harbors to duck into,
and lobster for the taking.

Puget Sound is great, I've done 4 weeks in the San Juan's over the last 5
years, and hope to go back in 2004. It's just such a great place to get
away, great sailing, beautiful sailing, unspoiled. And nice to be able to
empty that holding tank in Canadian waters :-).

Due to work location and cost of living issues, I may wind up living closer
to Santa Cruz/Monterey then SF Bay, so I may be back looking for pointers on
the sailing opportunities in that area...

Regards,

-Ost

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Intenost,

You got the right man with Jon.

I think you"ll love sailing out here. I'm in the Puget Sound Area, after
growing up on Long Island Sound. I was led to believe LI Sound was the
best. Boy was I wrong.. Puget Sound tops it hands down

I sailed a little on SF Bay. Damn little but it's a hell of a great
place to sail. Maybe the best in the country. IMHO!

The big draw back out hear is the water is cold, COLD!! You don't go
swimming like back East. This is Wet Suit Country.

SAILING IS THE GREATEST!

Ole Thom