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Seaworthiness ?
It seems to me that there is not much idea around here as to what
constitutes seaworthiness. Here in NZ the conditions are more challenging than in many other places and to sail offshore requires great attention to detail and sound knowledge of your vessel. Many people here might consider their vessels "seaworthy", but let me remind you that seaworthiness is a state of preparedness and safely for major passages and suitability for storm conditions. Here in NZ we have to get vessels inspected every 2 years for their seaworthiness and without a CAT1 clearance the vessel is not allowed to leave (if owned by a NZ resident). The inspection takes up to ~2 hours and the inspector also questions the skipper on his seamanship (it helps if you already have qualifications like Ocean yachtmaster or even Coastal skipper) for it is also the application his knowledge that makes the vessel seaworthy (or not). In many cases vessel arrive here from overseas which are patently unseaworthy and these days they are allowed to leave -after a strong talking to by the inspector as to why their vessels are unsuitable and what will likely happen to them in bad conditions. For that reason, it would seem that many US and EU vessels arrive but never leave. When the real sailor thinks about his vessel he thinks about how she will cope if hit by storm force winds in the open sea if he wishes to call his vessel seaworthy. If the vessel is not seaworthy then it is just a toy for amusement on nice fair wind days. The question is, to you have a toy or a seaworthy vessel? How many people here even have a storm jib? Cheers MC |
Seaworthiness ?
The navigator© wrote:
It seems to me that there is not much idea around here as to what constitutes seaworthiness. Speaking for yourself only, of course. Here in NZ the conditions are more challenging than in many other places Due to the constant inability of NZers to pay their debts? DSK |
Seaworthiness ?
Is your comprehension defective? YOU LOST.
Cheers MC DSK wrote: The navigator© wrote: It seems to me that there is not much idea around here as to what constitutes seaworthiness. Speaking for yourself only, of course. Here in NZ the conditions are more challenging than in many other places Due to the constant inability of NZers to pay their debts? DSK |
Seaworthiness ?
"The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Here in NZ we have to get vessels inspected every 2 years for their seaworthiness and without a CAT1 clearance the vessel is not allowed to leave (if owned by a NZ resident). The inspection takes up to ~2 hours and the inspector also questions the skipper on his seamanship (it helps if you already have qualifications like Ocean yachtmaster or even Coastal skipper) for it is also the application his knowledge that makes the vessel seaworthy (or not). Are you boasting about this?? You have little men in peaked caps who have the authority to stop you from setting to sea because they dissapprove of your vessel?? What kind of fascist dictatorship do you live in? In many cases vessel arrive here from overseas which are patently unseaworthy and these days they are allowed to leave -after a strong talking to by the inspector as to why their vessels are unsuitable .... and what qualifications do these "inspectors" have? I bet that they are recruited from the educational system's failures. I bet that they are paid a low salary, and they have a great pension scheme. and what will likely happen to them in bad conditions. For that reason, it would seem that many US and EU vessels arrive but never leave. ....and I bet that an even greater number never even arrive! Why would someone sail around the world to visit a country that paid idiots to tell the visitors that their craft were not seaworthy? Fer cryin' out loud, if you sail to NZ, then your boat *must* be seaworthy. When the real sailor thinks about his vessel he thinks about how she will cope if hit by storm force winds in the open sea if he wishes to call his vessel seaworthy. If the vessel is not seaworthy then it is just a toy for amusement on nice fair wind days. The question is, to you have a toy or a seaworthy vessel? How many people here even have a storm jib? Mind your own bloody business. The real question is "Do you need some small minded civil servant to tell you if your vessel is seaworthy?". I do NOT. Regards Donal -- |
Seaworthiness ?
I've never seen a certificate of complaince for boat LPG...
Cheers MC Donals Dilemma wrote: On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:51:43 +1300, The_navigator© wrote: They've eased up not under diplomatic pressure. As I said, they can leave but with advice... As for LPG, the sniffer must have been broken or had bad pipes. That would be a serious worry for me! Cheers MC Not sure of the circumstances wityh the LPG, I believe it was handyman installed and didn't have a cert of compliance. It was under 4 years old and not leaking. As I said it was perfectly OK...I did the inpection myself when she arrived here and had no hesitation in issuing a certificate. It was as good as it gets. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
Seaworthiness ?
The navigator© wrote:
Is your comprehension defective? I comprehend that you have yet to post a single fact in support of your contention. YOU LOST. Sorry, you're wrong. I guess you are used to it though. How about a consolation prize, a nice geodesic grid structure? Or maybe you'd rather have an aerodynamic textbook explaining the difference between planform and cross section? DSK |
Seaworthiness ?
Donal wrote: "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Here in NZ we have to get vessels inspected every 2 years for their seaworthiness and without a CAT1 clearance the vessel is not allowed to leave (if owned by a NZ resident). The inspection takes up to ~2 hours and the inspector also questions the skipper on his seamanship (it helps if you already have qualifications like Ocean yachtmaster or even Coastal skipper) for it is also the application his knowledge that makes the vessel seaworthy (or not). Are you boasting about this?? No. Just stating facts FYI. You have little men in peaked caps who have the authority to stop you from setting to sea because they dissapprove of your vessel?? What kind of fascist dictatorship do you live in? I think it's quite fair. The southern ocean is a big hostile place Donal. Suicide is illegal too -does that make the UK a fascist dictatorship? In many cases vessel arrive here from overseas which are patently unseaworthy and these days they are allowed to leave -after a strong talking to by the inspector as to why their vessels are unsuitable ... and what qualifications do these "inspectors" have? I bet that they are recruited from the educational system's failures. I bet that they are paid a low salary, and they have a great pension scheme. The ones I've met are all ex professional mariner with ocean yachtmaster examiner certs or equivalent. Most have circumnavigated under sail -or at least crossed the pacific. All are (or were) boating education instructors. and what will likely happen to them in bad conditions. For that reason, it would seem that many US and EU vessels arrive but never leave. ...and I bet that an even greater number never even arrive! Why would someone sail around the world to visit a country that paid idiots to tell the visitors that their craft were not seaworthy? Fer cryin' out loud, if you sail to NZ, then your boat *must* be seaworthy. No it may not be think about it... From the very definition of the word and that most people have never experienced a storm at sea. When the real sailor thinks about his vessel he thinks about how she will cope if hit by storm force winds in the open sea if he wishes to call his vessel seaworthy. If the vessel is not seaworthy then it is just a toy for amusement on nice fair wind days. The question is, to you have a toy or a seaworthy vessel? How many people here even have a storm jib? Mind your own bloody business. The real question is "Do you need some small minded civil servant to tell you if your vessel is seaworthy?". I do NOT. So you think it is? Cheers MC |
Seaworthiness ?
Yes, I'll accept any books you send in partial payment of your debt to
me. Talking of geodesics, have you found out what one is yet and why they DON'T completely obstruct the interior of racing boats? bwhahhahaha Cheers MC DSK wrote: The navigator© wrote: Is your comprehension defective? I comprehend that you have yet to post a single fact in support of your contention. YOU LOST. Sorry, you're wrong. I guess you are used to it though. How about a consolation prize, a nice geodesic grid structure? Or maybe you'd rather have an aerodynamic textbook explaining the difference between planform and cross section? DSK |
Seaworthiness ?
I guess you live in a "fascist state" too! The cylinders won't be filled
if they are rusty but apart from that I've not seen any restrictions. Certainly my insurance does not require a certificate... Cheers MC Donals Dilemma wrote: On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 12:15:52 +1300, The_navigator© wrote: I've never seen a certificate of complaince for boat LPG... Cheers MC You're kidding? All mobile (read caravans and trailers) and marine LPG installation MUST be inspected and certified here to get insurance. Insurance coys insist on reinspection at least at change of ownership and most every 5 years min. Cylinders MUST be galvanised for marine and in current inspection to be refilled. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
Seaworthiness ?
Good lord! My boat doesn't comply - don't have a flue or suitable
location for the cylinder and the gas pipes are not pressure tested (except by me)! Cheers MC Donals Dilemma wrote: On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 12:41:24 +1300, The_navigator© wrote: I guess you live in a "fascist state" too! The cylinders won't be filled if they are rusty but apart from that I've not seen any restrictions. Certainly my insurance does not require a certificate... Cheers MC Hmm, maybe though there are far less boats exploding these days:-) Cylinders are hydraulic tested every 10 years and stamped. Refilling an out of date cylinder carries big penalties This may be of interest http://www.technicalregulator.sa.gov...brochure_2.pdf Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
Seaworthiness ?
In article ,
The_navigator© wrote: It seems to me that there is not much idea around here as to what constitutes seaworthiness. Here in NZ the conditions are more challenging than in many other places and to sail offshore requires great attention to detail and sound knowledge of your vessel. Many people here might consider their vessels "seaworthy", but let me remind you that seaworthiness is a state of preparedness and safely for major passages and suitability for storm conditions. Here in NZ we have to get vessels inspected every 2 years for their seaworthiness and without a CAT1 clearance the vessel is not allowed to leave (if owned by a NZ resident). The inspection takes up to ~2 hours and the inspector also questions the skipper on his seamanship (it helps if you already have qualifications like Ocean yachtmaster or even Coastal skipper) for it is also the application his knowledge that makes the vessel seaworthy (or not). [snip] Here in Australia we can build/buy anything we like and sail it anywhere there's enough water to float it. Once again I count myself lucky to be an Australian instead of a NZ'er. Ocean yachtmaster or coastal skipper before you can go sailing??? Give me a break. All we really need to do is restrict EPIRB's to people with insurance sufficient to cover the cost of SAR and the whole problem would go away. Boat unseaworthy and/or incompetent crew? So sad, too bad. Learn to swim or stay home. There's a Russian in a 12' sailboat, Navvie, who's gone a lot further in it than you have managed in your boat, and done it single-handed, which you can't do in yours. Nobody in NZ would be allowed to leave port in such a cockleshell as that Russian has done. You lot are all the poorer for it. Peter Wiley |
Seaworthiness ?
Got the wrong end of the stick old chap. I think the Russian you are
talking about was not alone and he did it in a old lifeboat. That he made it here is amazing 'cos he had no charts -but he was not far from land until the Tasman. The trouble was that as he had no idea about boat construction the Al hull had corroded badly due to elctrolysis and people got tired of his scrounging for repairs. His girlfriend hooked up pretty quickly with a wealthier man. They were both Bludgers of the first order -IMO. They were not prevented from leaving but their liklihood for survival was made clear to them. They were also informed that if they got into trouble it could be several days before any help could reach them... If I remember he was deported when his visa ran out and so got a free ticket back to USSR. Cheers MC Peter Wiley wrote: All we really need to do is restrict EPIRB's to people with insurance sufficient to cover the cost of SAR and the whole problem would go away. Boat unseaworthy and/or incompetent crew? So sad, too bad. Learn to swim or stay home. There's a Russian in a 12' sailboat, Navvie, who's gone a lot further in it than you have managed in your boat, and done it single-handed, which you can't do in yours. Nobody in NZ would be allowed to leave port in such a cockleshell as that Russian has done. You lot are all the poorer for it. Peter Wiley |
Seaworthiness ?
"The_navigator©" wrote in message ... They've eased up not under diplomatic pressure. As I said, they can leave but with advice... As for LPG, the sniffer must have been broken or had bad pipes. That would be a serious worry for me! Oh, for Gawds sake! Why would you worry. Mind your own bloody business! Regards Donal -- |
Seaworthiness ?
Donals Dilemma wrote in message ... Umm it's a country that prefers to spent its taxpayers money on hospitals and education NOT huge resources to rush to the aid of idiots who set to sea in unseaworthy boats and with little or no skills. Are you SOOO politically correct that you are unable to see that checking everybody's boat would cost far more than the occasional rescue? What kind of world do we live in? Regards Donal -- |
Seaworthiness ?
"Peter Wiley" wrote in message . .. Here in Australia we can build/buy anything we like and sail it anywhere there's enough water to float it. Top marks! If Oz has his way, you won't be able to get out if bed without a bloody certificate! Regards Donal -- |
Seaworthiness ?
Donals Dilemma wrote: On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:12:08 +1300, The_navigator© wrote: Good lord! My boat doesn't comply - don't have a flue or suitable location for the cylinder and the gas pipes are not pressure tested (except by me)! Cheers MC Hmmm where are the cylinders? They should be in a box sealed from the hul and vented from the base to above waterline. Yes they are! Regs actually state that the box should be manufactured from flameproof material Mine are not! but this is generally ignored. Aha! But ignorance is not a defence in law unless your initials are DSK... Cheers MC |
Seaworthiness ?
Ever seen an LPG explosion or its aftermath?
Cheers MC Donal wrote: "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... They've eased up not under diplomatic pressure. As I said, they can leave but with advice... As for LPG, the sniffer must have been broken or had bad pipes. That would be a serious worry for me! Oh, for Gawds sake! Why would you worry. Mind your own bloody business! Regards Donal -- |
Seaworthiness ?
Have you ANY idea what a rescue operation in the Southern Ocean costs?
Cheers MC Donal wrote: Donals Dilemma wrote in message ... Umm it's a country that prefers to spent its taxpayers money on hospitals and education NOT huge resources to rush to the aid of idiots who set to sea in unseaworthy boats and with little or no skills. Are you SOOO politically correct that you are unable to see that checking everybody's boat would cost far more than the occasional rescue? What kind of world do we live in? Regards Donal -- |
Seaworthiness ?
And, now we come to the crux of the matter - money.
Don't any of you realize that rescue services were traditionally supported and are still supported in some places (England, for example) by donations and workers who actually volunteer. It is sad that the rescue service in most places nowadays has become a commercial enterprise that can write its own paycheck. Who pays but the taxpayer but, as usual, the taxpayer has no say in how his money is spent. In the meantime rescue services grow and grow with more highly trained people on the staff and more expensive hardware. Rescue services become a self-fulfilling prophesy and a bloated bureaucracy with the ability to pass silly laws requiring inspections of yachts before they are allowed to navigate. Ask yourself what kind of a business is in the business of limiting their business? Answer - none! What's hidden away is all this rescue business is to start something and then grow it but grow it in a more profitable way. There can be just as many rescuers on the staff and just as much expensive hardware waiting around to rescue two or three boats a season as opposed to two or three dozen boats a year. However an extra layer of inspectors and enforcers can be added to bloat the payroll even more and no cuts in the rescuers themselves need ever be made. Payroll gets larger, equipment expenses get larger. Next comes taxes being raised or fees being imposed and then more bureaucracy is hired because nobody wants to speak up against a noble pursuit such a saving lives. Where does it stop? Answer: it doesn't stop. Think about it and just say no to rescuers unless they work on donations with volunteers like traditional rescue services. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Have you ANY idea what a rescue operation in the Southern Ocean costs? Cheers MC Donal wrote: Donals Dilemma wrote in message ... Umm it's a country that prefers to spent its taxpayers money on hospitals and education NOT huge resources to rush to the aid of idiots who set to sea in unseaworthy boats and with little or no skills. Are you SOOO politically correct that you are unable to see that checking everybody's boat would cost far more than the occasional rescue? What kind of world do we live in? Regards Donal -- |
Seaworthiness ?
I've seen several pictures of such explosions and that is
the main reason I will not have heavier than air gas on my boat. Alcohol is more expensive but it is more safe and safety is my prime consideration as it should be with any sensible man. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Ever seen an LPG explosion or its aftermath? Cheers MC Donal wrote: "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... They've eased up not under diplomatic pressure. As I said, they can leave but with advice... As for LPG, the sniffer must have been broken or had bad pipes. That would be a serious worry for me! Oh, for Gawds sake! Why would you worry. Mind your own bloody business! Regards Donal -- |
Seaworthiness ?
An alcohol fire is easier to put out than a gas explosion.
Careless people will muck up anything. Statistics showing that fact should not daunt a careful sailor. A careful sailor makes sure fires don't start in the first place. This is easy with alcohol but harder with explosive gas. A smart man chooses danger he can control over danger that controls him. S.Simon Donals Dilemma wrote in message ... On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:48:36 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: I've seen several pictures of such explosions and that is the main reason I will not have heavier than air gas on my boat. Alcohol is more expensive but it is more safe and safety is my prime consideration as it should be with any sensible man. S.Simon There are actually far more alcohol fires on boats than LPG explosions. http://www.practical-sailor.com/news...90Letters3.pdf It's dangerous because people think its safe! Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
Seaworthiness ?
Alcohol isn't that great... very difficult to see the flame....
"Simple Simon" wrote in message ... I've seen several pictures of such explosions and that is the main reason I will not have heavier than air gas on my boat. Alcohol is more expensive but it is more safe and safety is my prime consideration as it should be with any sensible man. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Ever seen an LPG explosion or its aftermath? Cheers MC Donal wrote: "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... They've eased up not under diplomatic pressure. As I said, they can leave but with advice... As for LPG, the sniffer must have been broken or had bad pipes. That would be a serious worry for me! Oh, for Gawds sake! Why would you worry. Mind your own bloody business! Regards Donal -- |
Seaworthiness ?
I use a LOX and hydrazine stove!
Poopa Pimple "Simple Simon" wrote in message ... An alcohol fire is easier to put out than a gas explosion. Careless people will muck up anything. Statistics showing that fact should not daunt a careful sailor. A careful sailor makes sure fires don't start in the first place. This is easy with alcohol but harder with explosive gas. A smart man chooses danger he can control over danger that controls him. S.Simon Donals Dilemma wrote in message ... On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:48:36 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: I've seen several pictures of such explosions and that is the main reason I will not have heavier than air gas on my boat. Alcohol is more expensive but it is more safe and safety is my prime consideration as it should be with any sensible man. S.Simon There are actually far more alcohol fires on boats than LPG explosions. http://www.practical-sailor.com/news...90Letters3.pdf It's dangerous because people think its safe! Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
Seaworthiness ?
Well darn me I don't know. I though the layup around there looked the
same but I suppose they could have laid up different resins just there... I'll ask the builder next week. Cheers MC Donals Dilemma wrote: On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 14:17:09 +1300, The_navigator© wrote: Regs actually state that the box should be manufactured from flameproof material Mine are not! Are you sure? We used a resin similar to these http://www.scottbader.com/pub.nsf/Co...ME_Products_FR but this is generally ignored. Aha! But ignorance is not a defence in law unless your initials are DSK... Yep, no defence, and no indemnity. Cheers MC Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
Seaworthiness ?
Caostal resuce services are still provided for free by the likes of me..
Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: And, now we come to the crux of the matter - money. Don't any of you realize that rescue services were traditionally supported and are still supported in some places (England, for example) by donations and workers who actually volunteer. It is sad that the rescue service in most places nowadays has become a commercial enterprise that can write its own paycheck. Who pays but the taxpayer but, as usual, the taxpayer has no say in how his money is spent. In the meantime rescue services grow and grow with more highly trained people on the staff and more expensive hardware. Rescue services become a self-fulfilling prophesy and a bloated bureaucracy with the ability to pass silly laws requiring inspections of yachts before they are allowed to navigate. Ask yourself what kind of a business is in the business of limiting their business? Answer - none! What's hidden away is all this rescue business is to start something and then grow it but grow it in a more profitable way. There can be just as many rescuers on the staff and just as much expensive hardware waiting around to rescue two or three boats a season as opposed to two or three dozen boats a year. However an extra layer of inspectors and enforcers can be added to bloat the payroll even more and no cuts in the rescuers themselves need ever be made. Payroll gets larger, equipment expenses get larger. Next comes taxes being raised or fees being imposed and then more bureaucracy is hired because nobody wants to speak up against a noble pursuit such a saving lives. Where does it stop? Answer: it doesn't stop. Think about it and just say no to rescuers unless they work on donations with volunteers like traditional rescue services. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Have you ANY idea what a rescue operation in the Southern Ocean costs? Cheers MC Donal wrote: Donals Dilemma wrote in message ... Umm it's a country that prefers to spent its taxpayers money on hospitals and education NOT huge resources to rush to the aid of idiots who set to sea in unseaworthy boats and with little or no skills. Are you SOOO politically correct that you are unable to see that checking everybody's boat would cost far more than the occasional rescue? What kind of world do we live in? Regards Donal -- |
Seaworthiness ?
No **** sherlock. Has anyone ever tackled an explosion with an extinguisher?
Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: An alcohol fire is easier to put out than a gas explosion. Careless people will muck up anything. Statistics showing that fact should not daunt a careful sailor. A careful sailor makes sure fires don't start in the first place. This is easy with alcohol but harder with explosive gas. A smart man chooses danger he can control over danger that controls him. S.Simon Donals Dilemma wrote in message ... On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:48:36 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: I've seen several pictures of such explosions and that is the main reason I will not have heavier than air gas on my boat. Alcohol is more expensive but it is more safe and safety is my prime consideration as it should be with any sensible man. S.Simon There are actually far more alcohol fires on boats than LPG explosions. http://www.practical-sailor.com/news...90Letters3.pdf It's dangerous because people think its safe! Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
Seaworthiness ?
Why burn it when you can drink it!
Cheers MC Jonathan Ganz wrote: Alcohol isn't that great... very difficult to see the flame.... "Simple Simon" wrote in message ... I've seen several pictures of such explosions and that is the main reason I will not have heavier than air gas on my boat. Alcohol is more expensive but it is more safe and safety is my prime consideration as it should be with any sensible man. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Ever seen an LPG explosion or its aftermath? Cheers MC Donal wrote: "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... They've eased up not under diplomatic pressure. As I said, they can leave but with advice... As for LPG, the sniffer must have been broken or had bad pipes. That would be a serious worry for me! Oh, for Gawds sake! Why would you worry. Mind your own bloody business! Regards Donal -- |
Seaworthiness ?
Must be a different one. The one I'm thinking of came through Darwin
and a guy I know ran across him at Cocos. Bernie was SH'ing a Colvin Witch heading for Africa at the time, said the Russian built the boat himself - all 12' of it. IIRC we threw the Russian out after a week - he had no papers, passport or the like. Still, anyone who can go from Darwin to Cocos with that minimal amount of gear is doing well. Wouldn't bet on his survival, but he's got a long way so far. PDW In article , The_navigator© wrote: Got the wrong end of the stick old chap. I think the Russian you are talking about was not alone and he did it in a old lifeboat. That he made it here is amazing 'cos he had no charts -but he was not far from land until the Tasman. The trouble was that as he had no idea about boat construction the Al hull had corroded badly due to elctrolysis and people got tired of his scrounging for repairs. His girlfriend hooked up pretty quickly with a wealthier man. They were both Bludgers of the first order -IMO. They were not prevented from leaving but their liklihood for survival was made clear to them. They were also informed that if they got into trouble it could be several days before any help could reach them... If I remember he was deported when his visa ran out and so got a free ticket back to USSR. Cheers MC Peter Wiley wrote: All we really need to do is restrict EPIRB's to people with insurance sufficient to cover the cost of SAR and the whole problem would go away. Boat unseaworthy and/or incompetent crew? So sad, too bad. Learn to swim or stay home. There's a Russian in a 12' sailboat, Navvie, who's gone a lot further in it than you have managed in your boat, and done it single-handed, which you can't do in yours. Nobody in NZ would be allowed to leave port in such a cockleshell as that Russian has done. You lot are all the poorer for it. Peter Wiley |
Seaworthiness ?
That one (Southern Supporter) is landing a shore party on Heard for the
summer. I've got 6 of my guys sailing on Monday from Fremantle working on the marine part of the study, aboard Aurora Australis. The land based people are tagging penguins & seals with ARGOS transmitters and the ship people are seeing where the animals are feeding, then doing oceanographic/biological studies in the area. Should be a good trip, I was originally going to go myself but decided one voyage this year was enough. For all the northern hemisphere people, it's between 20 & 28C at the moment, enough wind for pleasant sailing, long lingering twilights for eating out & drinking, the dolphins are out & about and ..... it's only going to get better from here. I'll be in Sydney for Christmas and to watch the Sydney-Hobart fleet sail out. A few drinks at the Newport Inn and the RPAYC are definitely on the agenda. Then back to Hobart to celebrate the arrival of the fleet with drinks on the dock. Life is very good. PDW In article , Donals Dilemma wrote: On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 11:20:58 +1100, Peter Wiley wrote: Hey Pete, that boat you cruise on the "Ocean Supplier" or something like that? Saw a thing on the news about an expedition to Herd to survey eco changes. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
Seaworthiness ?
In article , Donals Dilemma
wrote: On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 01:05:43 -0000, "Donal" wrote: "Peter Wiley" wrote in message ... Here in Australia we can build/buy anything we like and sail it anywhere there's enough water to float it. Top marks! If Oz has his way, you won't be able to get out if bed without a bloody certificate! Quite the contrary my dear Donal. I have no sailing qualifications and carry letters of recommendation whenever I travel and plan on doing any sailing or chartering. There was a few years ago a push by Govt to require licensing of anyone who wished to take a boat outside of enclosed water. I was a vigorous campaigner against this move but was behind regulations that require certification regarding First Aid and use of survival equipment for offshore races where boats are pushed into conditions where the normal rec sailor wouldn't venture. Heh. All of my people (including myself) have current first aid, survival at sea & marine firefighting certs. Most of us are qualified SCUBA divers and have boat licences of various types, limited coxwain or full coxwain being most common. Try putting out a fuel oil fire in a (simulated) bilge with grates, deck plates etc if you want something really scary. PDW |
Seaworthiness ?
Not more than once....
I've had the pleasure of putting out a fire from a 45kg cylinder when the pressure release valve had triggered, and one from a 4" main with a pipe flange rupture. Both under controlled conditions as part of my training. It takes 2 people to snuff one of these, you can't do it alone and you definitely can't do it with a fire extinguisher. Takes a full sized fire hose. Fires on ships are one of the worst things that can happen. Peter Wiley In article , The_navigator© wrote: No **** sherlock. Has anyone ever tackled an explosion with an extinguisher? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: An alcohol fire is easier to put out than a gas explosion. Careless people will muck up anything. Statistics showing that fact should not daunt a careful sailor. A careful sailor makes sure fires don't start in the first place. This is easy with alcohol but harder with explosive gas. A smart man chooses danger he can control over danger that controls him. S.Simon Donals Dilemma wrote in message ... On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:48:36 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: I've seen several pictures of such explosions and that is the main reason I will not have heavier than air gas on my boat. Alcohol is more expensive but it is more safe and safety is my prime consideration as it should be with any sensible man. S.Simon There are actually far more alcohol fires on boats than LPG explosions. http://www.practical-sailor.com/news...90Letters3.pdf It's dangerous because people think its safe! Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
Seaworthiness ?
Who cares!
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport |
Seaworthiness ?
You're a complete idiot. You have no idea how big Australia's SAR zone is. Some of it is so far away that the Navy has to take a fleet oiler with them, or charter a deep ocean fishing boat. The fuel costs alone exceed any collection of individuals' contributions. As I said, if EPIRB's were restricted to people with insurance against rescue costs and the rest of us took our chances, problem solved. PDW In article , Simple Simon wrote: And, now we come to the crux of the matter - money. Don't any of you realize that rescue services were traditionally supported and are still supported in some places (England, for example) by donations and workers who actually volunteer. It is sad that the rescue service in most places nowadays has become a commercial enterprise that can write its own paycheck. Who pays but the taxpayer but, as usual, the taxpayer has no say in how his money is spent. In the meantime rescue services grow and grow with more highly trained people on the staff and more expensive hardware. Rescue services become a self-fulfilling prophesy and a bloated bureaucracy with the ability to pass silly laws requiring inspections of yachts before they are allowed to navigate. Ask yourself what kind of a business is in the business of limiting their business? Answer - none! What's hidden away is all this rescue business is to start something and then grow it but grow it in a more profitable way. There can be just as many rescuers on the staff and just as much expensive hardware waiting around to rescue two or three boats a season as opposed to two or three dozen boats a year. However an extra layer of inspectors and enforcers can be added to bloat the payroll even more and no cuts in the rescuers themselves need ever be made. Payroll gets larger, equipment expenses get larger. Next comes taxes being raised or fees being imposed and then more bureaucracy is hired because nobody wants to speak up against a noble pursuit such a saving lives. Where does it stop? Answer: it doesn't stop. Think about it and just say no to rescuers unless they work on donations with volunteers like traditional rescue services. S.Simon "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... Have you ANY idea what a rescue operation in the Southern Ocean costs? Cheers MC Donal wrote: Donals Dilemma wrote in message ... Umm it's a country that prefers to spent its taxpayers money on hospitals and education NOT huge resources to rush to the aid of idiots who set to sea in unseaworthy boats and with little or no skills. Are you SOOO politically correct that you are unable to see that checking everybody's boat would cost far more than the occasional rescue? What kind of world do we live in? Regards Donal -- |
Seaworthiness ?
"The_navigator©" wrote.....
Here in NZ we ..... talk funny and never shear our sheep with nobody! .. The question is, to you have a toy or a seaworthy vessel? How many people here even have a storm jib? Since my boat is a pleasure craft it is by definition a toy, seaworthy or no. Question is why would anyone brag about an oppressive government? Have you considered professional help for your condition - a good deprogrammer perhaps? |
Seaworthiness ?
The navigator© wrote:
Yes, I'll accept any books you send in partial payment of your debt to me. I don't owe you anything except possibly a hiding, you welsher. Talking of geodesics, have you found out what one is yet Considering that I have built them, probably yes. and why they DON'T completely obstruct the interior of racing boats? Of course, ones that don't have them. bwhahhahaha What an intelligent response. Did you learn that in your Junior Naval Architecture course? DSK |
Seaworthiness... fire
Peter Wiley wrote:
Not more than once.... I've had the pleasure of putting out a fire from a 45kg cylinder when the pressure release valve had triggered, and one from a 4" main with a pipe flange rupture. Both under controlled conditions as part of my training. It takes 2 people to snuff one of these, you can't do it alone and you definitely can't do it with a fire extinguisher. Takes a full sized fire hose. It's also crucial to shut off the source of fuel for the fire. Few people realize how well most fiberglass burns. Once a fire gets started on a small boat, the only hope is to put it out FAST. Fires on ships are one of the worst things that can happen. Yes indeed. I once had the dubious pleasure of putting out a class C fire in a ships laundry, which was located just above the helo fuel storage & pumping room. I was careful to not show anybody else in the fire party the DC diagrams, didn't want to start a panic! Much more fun than training. Regards Doug King |
Seaworthiness ?
Halon is best?
Cheers MC Peter Wiley wrote: In article , Donals Dilemma wrote: On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 01:05:43 -0000, "Donal" wrote: "Peter Wiley" wrote in message om... Here in Australia we can build/buy anything we like and sail it anywhere there's enough water to float it. Top marks! If Oz has his way, you won't be able to get out if bed without a bloody certificate! Quite the contrary my dear Donal. I have no sailing qualifications and carry letters of recommendation whenever I travel and plan on doing any sailing or chartering. There was a few years ago a push by Govt to require licensing of anyone who wished to take a boat outside of enclosed water. I was a vigorous campaigner against this move but was behind regulations that require certification regarding First Aid and use of survival equipment for offshore races where boats are pushed into conditions where the normal rec sailor wouldn't venture. Heh. All of my people (including myself) have current first aid, survival at sea & marine firefighting certs. Most of us are qualified SCUBA divers and have boat licences of various types, limited coxwain or full coxwain being most common. Try putting out a fuel oil fire in a (simulated) bilge with grates, deck plates etc if you want something really scary. PDW |
Seaworthiness ?
No doubt about that.
Cheers MC Peter Wiley wrote: Not more than once.... I've had the pleasure of putting out a fire from a 45kg cylinder when the pressure release valve had triggered, and one from a 4" main with a pipe flange rupture. Both under controlled conditions as part of my training. It takes 2 people to snuff one of these, you can't do it alone and you definitely can't do it with a fire extinguisher. Takes a full sized fire hose. Fires on ships are one of the worst things that can happen. Peter Wiley In article , The_navigator© wrote: No **** sherlock. Has anyone ever tackled an explosion with an extinguisher? Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: An alcohol fire is easier to put out than a gas explosion. Careless people will muck up anything. Statistics showing that fact should not daunt a careful sailor. A careful sailor makes sure fires don't start in the first place. This is easy with alcohol but harder with explosive gas. A smart man chooses danger he can control over danger that controls him. S.Simon Donals Dilemma wrote in message ... On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 20:48:36 -0500, "Simple Simon" wrote: I've seen several pictures of such explosions and that is the main reason I will not have heavier than air gas on my boat. Alcohol is more expensive but it is more safe and safety is my prime consideration as it should be with any sensible man. S.Simon There are actually far more alcohol fires on boats than LPG explosions. http://www.practical-sailor.com/news...90Letters3.pdf It's dangerous because people think its safe! Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
Seaworthiness ?
DSK wrote: The navigator© wrote: Yes, I'll accept any books you send in partial payment of your debt to me. I don't owe you anything except possibly a hiding, you welsher. So, what an excellent example of the human race you are. First you BS and then when called out and shown to the world to be a BS artist you threaten me with a hiding? You should hang your head in shame in apologize. Talking of geodesics, have you found out what one is yet Considering that I have built them, probably yes. How do you build a geometry term? and why they DON'T completely obstruct the interior of racing boats? Of course, ones that don't have them. So you still think some do? bwhahhahaha What an intelligent response. Did you learn that in your Junior Naval Architecture course? It's an appropriate response to your buffonery. Cheers MC |
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