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On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 18:26:57 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

But that's the point isn't it... we *don't* know where they're hiding,
and we have neither the human assets in the population to help
us, nor do we have adequate ground forces to make the attacks
impossible or so costly as to be ineffective.

And, the Iraqis are better at it you say... well, maybe they should
be in charge.... oops, finally Bushy and team realized this. Well, we
all make mistakes, such as not having a plan to begin with?????


They "realized" this from the start, which I'm sure you know. Bush has
been talking about a democratically-elected Iraqi taking over a Free
Iraq since the war began. It's in every speech, almost. The dirty
little secret is that it's only the Iraqi Baath Party killers that are
eager and willing to pick up the mantle of power tomorrow at 7 AM--or
anytime they can. Everyone else--everyone that you'd want in power over
there--wants the security problems handled first. The Iraqi council is
in no hurry, and if you've been following this, it was Bremer that was
kicking the Iraqi council's ass to spur them to get their constitution
finished, so elections could happen sooner. Since the Iraqi council
doesn't seem willing to finish their constitution on time, Plan B is an
interim government headed by one member of the council that they pick
to take over till proper elections can happen, under the new
constitutional process.

This is Bush from two and a half months ago:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0030907-1.html

- --------------------
[snip]

First, we are taking direct action against the terrorists in the Iraqi
theater...

[snip]

Second, we are committed to expanding international cooperation in the
reconstruction and security...

[snip]

I recognize that not all of our friends agreed with our decision to
enforce the Security Council resolutions and remove Saddam Hussein from
power. Yet we cannot let past differences interfere with present
duties. Terrorists in Iraq have attacked representatives of the
civilized world, and opposing them must be the cause of the civilized
world. Members of the United Nations now have an opportunity -- and the
responsibility -- to assume a broader role in assuring that Iraq
becomes a free and democratic nation.

Third, we are encouraging the orderly transfer of sovereignty and
authority to the Iraqi people. Our coalition came to Iraq as liberators
and we will depart as liberators. Right now Iraq has its own Governing
Council, comprised of 25 leaders representing Iraq's diverse people.
The Governing Council recently appointed cabinet ministers to run
government departments. Already more than 90 percent of towns and
cities have functioning local governments, which are restoring basic
services. We're helping to train civil defense forces to keep order,
and an Iraqi police service to enforce the law, a facilities protection
service, Iraqi border guards to help secure the borders, and a new
Iraqi army. In all these roles, there are now some 60,000 Iraqi
citizens under arms, defending the security of their own country, and
we are accelerating the training of more.

Iraq is ready to take the next steps toward self-government. The
Security Council resolution we introduce will encourage Iraq's
Governing Council to submit a plan and a timetable for the drafting of
a constitution and for free elections. From the outset, I have
expressed confidence in the ability of the Iraqi people to govern
themselves. Now they must rise to the responsibilities of a free people
and secure the blessings of their own liberty.

Our strategy in Iraq will require new resources. We have conducted a
thorough assessment of our military and reconstruction needs in Iraq,
and also in Afghanistan. I will soon submit to Congress a request for
$87 billion. The request will cover ongoing military and intelligence
operations in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere, which we expect will
cost $66 billion over the next year. This budget request will also
support our commitment to helping the Iraqi and Afghan people rebuild
their own nations, after decades of oppression and mismanagement. We
will provide funds to help them improve security. And we will help them
to restore basic services, such as electricity and water, and to build
new schools, roads, and medical clinics. This effort is essential to
the stability of those nations, and therefore, to our own security. Now
and in the future, we will support our troops and we will keep our word
to the more than 50 million people of Afghanistan and Iraq.

- --------------------

"two wheels" wrote in message
.. .
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On 26 Nov 2003 00:35:00 GMT, (Bobsprit) wrote:

There are many misconceptions among you pacifists
and liberals. One of the worst of these is that terrorists
are brave. If they were anything but cowards they
would not have to be terrorists.

The very idea that terrorists are brave or cowards is crazy. They
are insane. They won't ever stop, certainly not against the tiny
forces we're presenting to them. US effort is a drop in the bucket
and will fuel horrible attacks and more death, thanks to Bush.

RB

Tiny forces? Nonsense. The problem isn't the size of our force. It's
more than enough if we knew where the terrorists who plant the
roadside bombs were hiding. The problem is sorting out the
terrorists from the innocent--that's the hard problem. Finding the
terrorists is the one thing that the newly-trained Iraqi forces will
be able to do much
better than we ever could.

two wheels

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Except the lying about the WMDs in the first place and getting
us into a quagmire war that was not necessary because diplomacy
wasn't finished yet and not having an exist strategy and not actually
having enough troops to get the job done and putting his Afganistan
adventure on the back burner (and by the way not capturing Osama)
and not getting Saddam either once we got there and claiming that the
"mission 'was' accomplished" and allowing Ashcrap to infringe on our
civil liberties and threatening librarians of all people with jail if they
don't cooperate and basically *ignoring* the whole issue of homeland
security (something Clinton actually started during his time in office)
until the planes were out of the hangers (we wouldn't want to disparage
horses outside the barn), Bushy is sooo right and truthful it makes me
sick. The fact that he's squandered all of the goodwill that we had after
911, that the economy is in terrible shape yet, and that he lacks the
intelligence to even understand the intelligence briefings, so he has to
rely on Chumpy to tell him what to do (a guy who claimed in the
Chumpy/Lieberman debate that Haliburton made money without
gov't assistance... a bald-face lie, but which sounded great at the
time), and the fact that he's a reformed drunk and drug user, why
I'm just sooo impressed with him.

"two wheels" wrote in message
...
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This is Bush from two and a half months ago:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0030907-1.html

- --------------------

It is very humorous to read the rantings of a current
drug abuser condemning a former alcoholic.

Bwahahahahahahahhaha

S.Simon


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ...
Except the lying about the WMDs in the first place and getting
us into a quagmire war that was not necessary because diplomacy
wasn't finished yet and not having an exist strategy and not actually
having enough troops to get the job done and putting his Afganistan
adventure on the back burner (and by the way not capturing Osama)
and not getting Saddam either once we got there and claiming that the
"mission 'was' accomplished" and allowing Ashcrap to infringe on our
civil liberties and threatening librarians of all people with jail if they
don't cooperate and basically *ignoring* the whole issue of homeland
security (something Clinton actually started during his time in office)
until the planes were out of the hangers (we wouldn't want to disparage
horses outside the barn), Bushy is sooo right and truthful it makes me
sick. The fact that he's squandered all of the goodwill that we had after
911, that the economy is in terrible shape yet, and that he lacks the
intelligence to even understand the intelligence briefings, so he has to
rely on Chumpy to tell him what to do (a guy who claimed in the
Chumpy/Lieberman debate that Haliburton made money without
gov't assistance... a bald-face lie, but which sounded great at the
time), and the fact that he's a reformed drunk and drug user, why
I'm just sooo impressed with him.

"two wheels" wrote in message
...
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This is Bush from two and a half months ago:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0030907-1.html

- --------------------

He's a current alcoholic (technically a "recovering" alcholic, since there
is
no cure. And, he's a former drug user. The only drug I've ever abused
(and it was consensual) was coffee. Did I hear it right that you've stopped
abusing your cat now that it died?

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
It is very humorous to read the rantings of a current
drug abuser condemning a former alcoholic.

Bwahahahahahahahhaha

S.Simon


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Except the lying about the WMDs in the first place and getting
us into a quagmire war that was not necessary because diplomacy
wasn't finished yet and not having an exist strategy and not actually
having enough troops to get the job done and putting his Afganistan
adventure on the back burner (and by the way not capturing Osama)
and not getting Saddam either once we got there and claiming that the
"mission 'was' accomplished" and allowing Ashcrap to infringe on our
civil liberties and threatening librarians of all people with jail if
they
don't cooperate and basically *ignoring* the whole issue of homeland
security (something Clinton actually started during his time in office)
until the planes were out of the hangers (we wouldn't want to disparage
horses outside the barn), Bushy is sooo right and truthful it makes me
sick. The fact that he's squandered all of the goodwill that we had
after
911, that the economy is in terrible shape yet, and that he lacks the
intelligence to even understand the intelligence briefings, so he has to
rely on Chumpy to tell him what to do (a guy who claimed in the
Chumpy/Lieberman debate that Haliburton made money without
gov't assistance... a bald-face lie, but which sounded great at the
time), and the fact that he's a reformed drunk and drug user, why
I'm just sooo impressed with him.

"two wheels" wrote in message
...
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This is Bush from two and a half months ago:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0030907-1.html

- --------------------

It is very humorous to read the rantings of a current
drug abuser condemning a former alcoholic.

Not fair at all. Bush is reformed.


RB

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
It is very humorous to read the rantings of a current
drug abuser condemning a former alcoholic.

"former alcoholic"??? I didn't know that they had discovered a cure.


Simon, you are a redneck. Get used to it. Every time that you write
something in support of Bush, you emphasise your ignorance. You see - the
world recognises that Bush is not only an imbecile, but also a murderous
liar, who will bring havoc to the civilised world, and to the US.

You should stick to sailing subjects, where your ignorance impresses us.



Regards


Donal
--

"Donal" wrote in message news:bq3dgo$4qg$2
Simon, you are a redneck. Get used to it. Every time that you write
something in support of Bush, you emphasise your ignorance. You see - the
world recognises that Bush is not only an imbecile, but also a murderous
liar, who will bring havoc to the civilised world, and to the US.


You forgot to mention "shoe in for second term".

Mr. Bush is ahead by a landslide in every recent poll.
He's got 20 or 30 percentage points on every one of
the Democrat wannabes. What bugs you liberals more
even than the popularity of President Bush is the fact
that said popularity indicates the left has lost in its
attempt to ruin this great country.

You just can't seem to get it through your thick skull
that the 'world' can take its lame opinions and go f*ck
itself. You pathetic, pacifist, socialist minority don't a
'world' make. You give yourselves way way too much
credit. We patriotic citizens of the United States of
American couldn't care less what any brain-dead socialist
rabble thinks.

S.Simon

Still waiting for you to accept my modest bet on the outcome
of the race.... $5 put up or shut up. Don't you realize that if
you win the bet, you'll have bragging rights here for years to
come, and you'll be $5 up and I'll be out a whopping $5.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

"Donal" wrote in message news:bq3dgo$4qg$2
Simon, you are a redneck. Get used to it. Every time that you write
something in support of Bush, you emphasise your ignorance. You see -
the
world recognises that Bush is not only an imbecile, but also a murderous
liar, who will bring havoc to the civilised world, and to the US.


You forgot to mention "shoe in for second term".

Mr. Bush is ahead by a landslide in every recent poll.
He's got 20 or 30 percentage points on every one of
the Democrat wannabes. What bugs you liberals more
even than the popularity of President Bush is the fact
that said popularity indicates the left has lost in its
attempt to ruin this great country.

You just can't seem to get it through your thick skull
that the 'world' can take its lame opinions and go f*ck
itself. You pathetic, pacifist, socialist minority don't a
'world' make. You give yourselves way way too much
credit. We patriotic citizens of the United States of
American couldn't care less what any brain-dead socialist
rabble thinks.

S.Simon

Five bucks is chump change.

S.Simon


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ...
Still waiting for you to accept my modest bet on the outcome
of the race.... $5 put up or shut up. Don't you realize that if
you win the bet, you'll have bragging rights here for years to
come, and you'll be $5 up and I'll be out a whopping $5.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

"Donal" wrote in message news:bq3dgo$4qg$2
Simon, you are a redneck. Get used to it. Every time that you write
something in support of Bush, you emphasise your ignorance. You see -
the
world recognises that Bush is not only an imbecile, but also a murderous
liar, who will bring havoc to the civilised world, and to the US.


You forgot to mention "shoe in for second term".

Mr. Bush is ahead by a landslide in every recent poll.
He's got 20 or 30 percentage points on every one of
the Democrat wannabes. What bugs you liberals more
even than the popularity of President Bush is the fact
that said popularity indicates the left has lost in its
attempt to ruin this great country.

You just can't seem to get it through your thick skull
that the 'world' can take its lame opinions and go f*ck
itself. You pathetic, pacifist, socialist minority don't a
'world' make. You give yourselves way way too much
credit. We patriotic citizens of the United States of
American couldn't care less what any brain-dead socialist
rabble thinks.

S.Simon

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Ganz,

You really need to leave that ideological ghetto (Marin Co.) sometime,
and experience the rest of America. We're nice. We won't hurt you. :-)

I did have a sourdough-crust pizza in Tiburon one time, that was really
great, but I sure wouldn't want to live in Marin, even if I could
afford it.

two wheels


On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 12:45:54 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

Except the lying about the WMDs in the first place and getting
us into a quagmire war that was not necessary because diplomacy
wasn't finished yet and not having an exist strategy and not actually
having enough troops to get the job done and putting his Afganistan
adventure on the back burner (and by the way not capturing Osama)
and not getting Saddam either once we got there and claiming that the
"mission 'was' accomplished" and allowing Ashcrap to infringe on our
civil liberties and threatening librarians of all people with jail if
they don't cooperate and basically *ignoring* the whole issue of
homeland
security (something Clinton actually started during his time in
office) until the planes were out of the hangers (we wouldn't want to
disparage horses outside the barn), Bushy is sooo right and truthful
it makes me sick. The fact that he's squandered all of the goodwill
that we had after 911, that the economy is in terrible shape yet, and
that he lacks the
intelligence to even understand the intelligence briefings, so he has
to rely on Chumpy to tell him what to do (a guy who claimed in the
Chumpy/Lieberman debate that Haliburton made money without
gov't assistance... a bald-face lie, but which sounded great at the
time), and the fact that he's a reformed drunk and drug user, why
I'm just sooo impressed with him.

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