If the cable is attached to the ferry and the ferry
does not sink when a man stands on it then it's a vessel.

If the ferry sinks while a man stands on deck pulling
on the cable attached only to a structure ashore
then it is not a vessel.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...
What about a ferry that is pulled by shore power?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

It is germane because without an outside source of power
the board or ski sinks, goes nowhere and is not a vessel.

The only thing that makes a ski or board resemble a vessel
is when it is being dragged along with the aid of a person
standing upon it who is being pulled along rapidly by
an outside source of power but a ski or a board is no more
a vessel than is a man being pulled along body surfing on
his stomach.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...

The sail is attached via the sailor. But that is not the point at the
moment. The attachment of a sail is not germain as to whether it is a
vessel and that is all that matters.

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:


That a sailboard sinks when becalmed is not germane to
the fact that it is still a vessel. It is a vessel because it
has a sail attached that moves it along on the water when
the wind comes up. A kite board has no such sail attached.
In the same manner a water ski has no such propulsion of
any kind attached. Neither is a vessel. The only way either
of them stay on the water is when being dragged along by
an outside force that is not even applied directly to them.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...


So the fact that it sinks when becalmed is irrelevant?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:



Yes, because the sails are attached directly to the board.
Even small (sinker) boards are sailboats because the sail
is attached to them and can power them fast enough to
stay on the surface and go from place to place.

A windsurfer is a small sailboat.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...



Is a windsurfer a vessel?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:




You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the
operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when
the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel.

A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if
it has no power it can drift from place to place with
the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel.

So the question of attachment of motive power is not an issue either?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

If the cable is attached to the ferry and the ferry
does not sink when a man stands on it then it's a vessel.

The attachment of motive power is at the very core
of the issue.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...
So the question of attachment of motive power is not an issue either?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

If the cable is attached to the ferry and the ferry
does not sink when a man stands on it then it's a vessel.

Suppose the cable is helm by the ferryman? Is it not a vessel?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

The attachment of motive power is at the very core
of the issue.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...

So the question of attachment of motive power is not an issue either?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:


If the cable is attached to the ferry and the ferry
does not sink when a man stands on it then it's a vessel.

You won't get me that easily . . .

Is 'held', I think you meant? If the ferryman can pull on
the cable hard enough to convey the ferry across the
water and the ferry does not sink in the process then
the ferry is a vessel. In this case the ferryman provides
the motive force just like an oarsman in a rowboat provides
the motive force.

However if the force comes from an external source
like a kite that pulls a board that sinks unless it is
being dragged along rapidly by a man holding onto
the kite then the board is not a vessel. In other words
the kite pulls the man and the man drags the board along
for the ride in this instance while the ferryman pulls with
his own muscles while being supported by the ferry and
the man goes along for the ride in the above instance.

I think you've finally caught on.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...
Suppose the cable is helm by the ferryman? Is it not a vessel?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

The attachment of motive power is at the very core
of the issue.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...

So the question of attachment of motive power is not an issue either?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:


If the cable is attached to the ferry and the ferry
does not sink when a man stands on it then it's a vessel.

The only thing I've caught is a big fish that just won't give up the fight!

;-P

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:
You won't get me that easily . . .

Is 'held', I think you meant? If the ferryman can pull on
the cable hard enough to convey the ferry across the
water and the ferry does not sink in the process then
the ferry is a vessel. In this case the ferryman provides
the motive force just like an oarsman in a rowboat provides
the motive force.

However if the force comes from an external source
like a kite that pulls a board that sinks unless it is
being dragged along rapidly by a man holding onto
the kite then the board is not a vessel. In other words
the kite pulls the man and the man drags the board along
for the ride in this instance while the ferryman pulls with
his own muscles while being supported by the ferry and
the man goes along for the ride in the above instance.

I think you've finally caught on.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...

Suppose the cable is helm by the ferryman? Is it not a vessel?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:


The attachment of motive power is at the very core
of the issue.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...


So the question of attachment of motive power is not an issue either?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:



If the cable is attached to the ferry and the ferry
does not sink when a man stands on it then it's a vessel.

What about barges, which have numerous references in the ColRegs. It is pretty clear they
are considered vessels in the rules.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
You won't get me that easily . . .

Is 'held', I think you meant? If the ferryman can pull on
the cable hard enough to convey the ferry across the
water and the ferry does not sink in the process then
the ferry is a vessel. In this case the ferryman provides
the motive force just like an oarsman in a rowboat provides
the motive force.

However if the force comes from an external source
like a kite that pulls a board that sinks unless it is
being dragged along rapidly by a man holding onto
the kite then the board is not a vessel. In other words
the kite pulls the man and the man drags the board along
for the ride in this instance while the ferryman pulls with
his own muscles while being supported by the ferry and
the man goes along for the ride in the above instance.

I think you've finally caught on.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...
Suppose the cable is helm by the ferryman? Is it not a vessel?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

The attachment of motive power is at the very core
of the issue.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...

So the question of attachment of motive power is not an issue either?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:


If the cable is attached to the ferry and the ferry
does not sink when a man stands on it then it's a vessel.

What about them. It's pretty clear a barge is a vessel.

S.Simon


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ...
What about barges, which have numerous references in the ColRegs. It is pretty clear they
are considered vessels in the rules.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
You won't get me that easily . . .

Is 'held', I think you meant? If the ferryman can pull on
the cable hard enough to convey the ferry across the
water and the ferry does not sink in the process then
the ferry is a vessel. In this case the ferryman provides
the motive force just like an oarsman in a rowboat provides
the motive force.

However if the force comes from an external source
like a kite that pulls a board that sinks unless it is
being dragged along rapidly by a man holding onto
the kite then the board is not a vessel. In other words
the kite pulls the man and the man drags the board along
for the ride in this instance while the ferryman pulls with
his own muscles while being supported by the ferry and
the man goes along for the ride in the above instance.

I think you've finally caught on.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...
Suppose the cable is helm by the ferryman? Is it not a vessel?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

The attachment of motive power is at the very core
of the issue.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...

So the question of attachment of motive power is not an issue either?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:


If the cable is attached to the ferry and the ferry
does not sink when a man stands on it then it's a vessel.