Sure . . . .and I've done so. Except for shearing sheep. But the point
is . . . .. that work will never pay enough to get people to do it as long
as it's easier to import cheap, illegal labor from Mexico. But then that
isn't the point. Artificially depressing the cost of labor so you can still
get a 99 cent burger rather than paying a fair wage is what's important ..
.. along with stuffing ballot boxes.

Have a nice day!!! Remember California USED to be part of Mexico. Damn
shame you all gave it back.

MST

Bingo! Hope springs eternal . . .. and a light bulb flickers bravely here
and there. . .

That's the problem... many people work for it but never get
it. Or, they have it, use it, then get laid off and can't get it
again for a variety of reasons, including the new employer
not offering it, they can't afford it because rates have gone
up, or they're denied coverage because of prior conditions.

"Schoonertrash" wrote in message
...
I pay $230 a year for the supplement to my primary insurance. That policy
cost me 20 years of work initially to earn. I pay about $70 a year for
Divers Assistance Network diving and medevac for any reason from anywhere
in
the world. Through the union I have complete coverage on yet another
policy
for 120 days of work the first year and 60 days minimum every year
thereafter. So . . .lets see . . . .two complete policies plus the DAN
costs me . . ..carry the 7 and .. oh yes . . . .$300 per year or $25
per
month and at least 60 count them 60 whole days of work. 'course . . .you
gotta be willing to actually work but in my industry there's plenty of it.
And if I was to go down THAT road again insurance for family (any number
from one to whatever) would be another $230 a year with no pre existing
condition exclusions.

WHAT insurance problems?

What? Easy for me to say? hmmmmmm True! But then of course, not
belonging to the privileged classes, I had to go out and work for it.

It ain't rocket science.

Have a nice day

MST

But you didn't say you enjoyed nor did you say you'd do
it again for even double what they currently pay farm workers....

"Schoonertrash" wrote in message
...
Sure . . . .and I've done so. Except for shearing sheep. But the point
is . . . .. that work will never pay enough to get people to do it as long
as it's easier to import cheap, illegal labor from Mexico. But then that
isn't the point. Artificially depressing the cost of labor so you can
still
get a 99 cent burger rather than paying a fair wage is what's important
...
. along with stuffing ballot boxes.

Have a nice day!!! Remember California USED to be part of Mexico. Damn
shame you all gave it back.

MST

It is reflected in the pool of monies available for use in capitol
improvments, mortgages and such. Also if the fed has a huge defecit to pay
on, things suffer, things like social security, law enforcment, and
borderpatrol.
"Schoonertrash" wrote in message
...
So what? Does it matter? Of course not. It hasn't mattered for well
over
sixty years. Didn't matter under Clinton, Bush Sr. Reagain, Carter, Ford,
Johnson, Nixon (did I leave out anyone?), Eisenhower . . . correction . ..
Nixon did something to correct it partially and Kennedy tried to do so.

Measured against GNP as a percentage it's nothing. That's the arguement
Doug used on me last time. Once you invoke that you are home free. The
rest is just silliness like worrying about five or ten nukes in N. Korea.
Hell . . .I'm used to worrying about ten thousand plus of the things
pointed
at me. Neither do I worry about the National Debt or the annual budger
imbalances . .. .

All you have to do to get rid of it is do like the last administration.
Take it "off budget" and ignore it. Then you can claim a budget surplus.
In point of fact there has never been a budget surplus when the books are
balanced. Take a quick look at the Dept of Treasury website. End of
conversation. The rest is just meaningless BS.

As long as the majority of the nation thinks we are solvent, we are
solvent
(faith standard versus gold standard or rabbit skin standard or wampum
standard or whatever else). Now of course the electronic symbols on
computer tapes have been given the same status as printed money or (in the
old days) coined money (not since what? 64 or 65 have we minted coins) or
against tokens (look like coins but no intrinsic value).

Let's suppose the situation gets really, really bad. Two types of
things,
make that three, will happen.

Employment gets low enough there will be a war and employment will rise
dramatically. Might be a shooting war, might be a war on poverty, might
be
a war against kangaroo rat infestations. Doesn't matter.

Individual programs get too hard to handle then the original intent will
be
enforced. For Example Social Security is for " those who are destitute".
Read the original law that established the program. Do away with those at
the top who really don't need it and voila! No problem. Course if you
retire on $25,000 or so plus a year plan on getting shafted.

Finally look at the example of Nixon and Kissinger when they did away with
the Johnson Debt. Simply create an artificial shortage of a basic
commodity. Float scare rumours of $2.00a gallon gas, let the price float
from 35 cents to nearer one dollar and then you can raise the taxes on
fuel.
Can't tax fifty cents on thirty five cent a gallon gas can you? Scare
people into thinking $5 a gallon gas is around the corner . . .let it
settle
at $2 plus and bing taxes can now raise to $1 plus.

Another name for this is debt devaluation or 'your investment ain't worth
as
much as you thought when you loaned out the money." That's another phrase
for PERS or IRA or any other retirment fund investment. The whole thing
is
BS of the highest magnitude.. .. .and not worth worrying about. Want a
real
scare? The unfunded debt of the nation is now hovering around 50
trillion.
Unfunded military retirement, unfunded Social Security, unfunded Railroad
Retirement, unfunded Medicare and Medicaid. And that's only through the
lifetime of the baby boomers.

In truth, the only debt worth worrying about is your own. $10 Big Mac's
anyone? What is worth worrying about is how much per foot is the cost of
a
sailboat and where in the world you can make what you have left last as
long
as you need it.

Can anyone properly define the term "money?"

MST

The ONLY thing worth worrying about is when enough people say, "The
emperor
(government) has no clothes." Once enough people realize the government
has
not intention of paying their bills .. . . . . . .

Well. . .no one said everything lasts forever . . But in the immortal
words
of Alfred E. "What me Worry?"

All that says is things are completly out of control.No economy can absorb
24% expansion a year. Hyper inflation is not unheard of in this day, just
look at Argentina. Also if we are to blame Clinton for todays woes, we must
give Jimmy Carter credit for the recovery then.
"Simple Simon" wrote in message
news
The tax cuts are speeding up the economy and that's a fact.

The GDP grew at a rate of over 7% in the third quarter.
This represents a rate only equaled 19 years ago after
President Reagan's tax cuts.

If you want a thriving economy just allow the people to
keep their money. They will certainly spend it.

S.Simon


"two wheels" wrote in message
...
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Hash: SHA1

When the economy is humming along, the deficit cures itself. That's
what the tax cuts were for--to prime the economic pump. Tax and
tariff policy is about the only power government has over the
economy. They can slow down the economy with tax increases (as in
California) or speed it up with tax cuts. That's it.

two wheels


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...id=749&e=1&u=/
nm/20031030/bs_nm/economy_dc

Economy Rocketed Ahead in 3rd Quarter
By Tim Ahmann

excerpt:
- ----------------------

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. economy rocketed ahead at its
fastest pace in more than 19 years in the third quarter of 2003 as
consumers, their wallets fattened by tax cuts, went on a buying
spree, an unexpectedly strong government report showed on Thursday.

U.S. gross domestic product surged at a 7.2 percent annual rate in
the July-September period, the Commerce Department said. It was the
steepest climb since the first quarter of 1984 and more than double
the second quarter's 3.3 percent rate.

Three other reports on Thursday also suggested a firmer recovery was
taking root -- new claims for jobless benefits and a help-wanted
index suggested some stability in the labor market, while companies
spent more on wages and benefits.

The jump in GDP (news - web sites) growth, which also reflected a
big gain in business spending, outstripped forecasts on Wall Street,
where economists had looked for a rise closer to 6 percent.

- ----------------------



On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:31:56 -0500, "Schoonertrash"
wrote:

So what? Does it matter? Of course not. It hasn't mattered for
well over
sixty years. Didn't matter under Clinton, Bush Sr. Reagain,
Carter, Ford,
Johnson, Nixon (did I leave out anyone?), Eisenhower . . .
correction . ..
Nixon did something to correct it partially and Kennedy tried to do
so.

Measured against GNP as a percentage it's nothing. That's the
arguement
Doug used on me last time. Once you invoke that you are home
free. The
rest is just silliness like worrying about five or ten nukes in N.
Korea.
Hell . . .I'm used to worrying about ten thousand plus of the
things pointed
at me. Neither do I worry about the National Debt or the annual
budger
imbalances . .. .


[SNIP]


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71q1Rr2jByjpLPvlm6yZ/4Y=
=TnEI
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

and military readiness. But it does not affect congressional salaries.

The wonderful thing about National Medical Care provided free of charge by
the Government.... everyone is covered.

CM

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
| That's the problem... many people work for it but never get
| it. Or, they have it, use it, then get laid off and can't get it
| again for a variety of reasons, including the new employer
| not offering it, they can't afford it because rates have gone
| up, or they're denied coverage because of prior conditions.
|
| "Schoonertrash" wrote in message
| ...
| I pay $230 a year for the supplement to my primary insurance. That
policy
| cost me 20 years of work initially to earn. I pay about $70 a year for
| Divers Assistance Network diving and medevac for any reason from
anywhere
| in
| the world. Through the union I have complete coverage on yet another
| policy
| for 120 days of work the first year and 60 days minimum every year
| thereafter. So . . .lets see . . . .two complete policies plus the DAN
| costs me . . ..carry the 7 and .. oh yes . . . .$300 per year or $25
| per
| month and at least 60 count them 60 whole days of work. 'course . .
..you
| gotta be willing to actually work but in my industry there's plenty of
it.
| And if I was to go down THAT road again insurance for family (any number
| from one to whatever) would be another $230 a year with no pre existing
| condition exclusions.
|
| WHAT insurance problems?
|
| What? Easy for me to say? hmmmmmm True! But then of course, not
| belonging to the privileged classes, I had to go out and work for it.
|
| It ain't rocket science.
|
| Have a nice day
|
| MST
|
|
|
|

"Capt. Mooron" wrote:

The wonderful thing about National Medical Care provided free of charge by
the Government.... everyone is covered.


What? Free? Me thinks not CM, why do you suppose we have the privilege
of paying some of the highest taxes in the world? You and I and the rest
of the middle class pay the brunt of the cost.

Cheers
Marty

Eventually . . .if the examples of Canada and England are to be followed. I
recall the medical community in British Columbia shutting down and heading
South for the winter whent he funds ran out. I also recall selling a lot of
supplemental, high deductible catastrophic care insurance policies to
Canadians. My largest customer base by far. Your example is truly great . .
..especially if you are more equal than other pigs. My $230 a year
supplement, for example, is military retirement insurance. The base plan
(no charge except 20 years of work) is so good it's not accepted in many
places because of the difficulty in getting paid in something reasonably
approaching a timely manner. That's why I add the supplement, DAN, and
union insurance. To the extent it does work the gov't insurance is fine . .
.. .but then I have all of you paying for it. A large economic base is
needed to support a small amount of users. Ask the taxpayers of Oregon how
well it works even when prioritized and limited.

Sorry . . . .the theory does not match the reality and the number one reason
for increase in cost of medicine is government intervention. Do you really
think we union workers are going to give up our good coverage for another
failed government program? Even the government union workers aren't that
silly.

MST

So when you go to the check out line and are asked "Paper or Plastic?"
Answer them, "Doesn't matter I'm bi-sack-ual."