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free foot main
It is too a shelf foot, why do you day it isn't? S.Simon "The Captains Master" wrote in message ... On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 19:16:16 -0400, "Simple Simon" wrote: How does the bolt rope in the boom limit the trim? Mine bolt rope (3/8" polyester sewn to the sail) stretches as the outhaul is heaved tight and the sliding slug at the clew slides aft. The sail stretches at the foot and the shelf actually closes so it is not even evident. Only when the outhaul is slacked off to produce a fuller sail is the shelf expanded. Maybe your shelf-footed sail was poorly designed? S.Simon Ummm that's not a shelf foot Cappy! http://www.homestead.com/captneal/Thumbsup.html Bwaaaahahahahahahahahaha! What an idiot!!! Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
free foot main
Here is a quote from the "Mainsail Instructions" that came with the sail.
"Foot Tension - turning to the foot of the sail, the sail is cut to reach the outhaul band with sufficient outhaul tension to close the shelf in the foot. This may mean that the outhaul has to be pulled quite hard because the rope in the foot of the sail is tight and must be stretched." It has a shelf at the foot, therefore it is a shelf-footed sail. S.Simon "The Captains Master" wrote in message ... On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 19:16:16 -0400, "Simple Simon" wrote: How does the bolt rope in the boom limit the trim? Mine bolt rope (3/8" polyester sewn to the sail) stretches as the outhaul is heaved tight and the sliding slug at the clew slides aft. The sail stretches at the foot and the shelf actually closes so it is not even evident. Only when the outhaul is slacked off to produce a fuller sail is the shelf expanded. Maybe your shelf-footed sail was poorly designed? S.Simon Ummm that's not a shelf foot Cappy! http://www.homestead.com/captneal/Thumbsup.html Bwaaaahahahahahahahahaha! What an idiot!!! Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
free foot main
Here is a quote from the "Mainsail Instructions" that came with the sail.
Wholy crap. RB |
free foot main
It's a North Sail and far better than your junk!
S.Simon "Bobsprit" wrote in message ... Here is a quote from the "Mainsail Instructions" that came with the sail. Wholy crap. RB |
free foot main
It's a North Sail and far better than your junk!
My main is by North. My Genoa is UK. Doh! Neal bites it again! RB |
free foot main
Yes it does. What makes you say it doesn't?
"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message ... Mine bolt rope (3/8" polyester sewn to the sail) stretches as the outhaul is heaved tight and the sliding slug at the clew slides aft. The sail stretches at the foot and the shelf actually closes so it is not even evident. Only when the outhaul is slacked off to produce a fuller sail is the shelf expanded. Hey Simple, I keep telling you that you know nothing about boats. The main in that photo does not have a shelf foot. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport |
free foot main
You didn't miss anything. The pictures are too small and of low quality. You can't really see anything worth seeing. S.Simon "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... Sorry Loco, My Web tv can't open your pictures. Wish I could Ole Thom P/S All my shelves work as you say. They would unfold as the curve in the bottom increased. |
free foot main
Two ways.
1. make a slit with a hot knife 2" long just above the bolt rope and directly under the reef tie. Pass reef tie through slit. 2.Tie reef tie under boom LOOSELY so as not to stress the sail. Reef tie points are reinforced, but not enough to take the strain of a foot slug or bolt rope. On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 11:36:38 -0300, "Capt. Mooron" wrote: "Marc" wrote in message .. . | | | | Cap, you bring up a frequently misunderstood point. The reef ties | shoud never be used to tie the sail to the boom. This is a cause for | sail maker enrichment. The reef ties are not reinforced to take such | strain. A reefed main is a loose footed main and the sail ties are | just there to make the package neat. So Marc... how do you tie a reef into a main that has a bolt rope along the boom? points noSince when are reef t reinforced? CM |
free foot main
"Marc" wrote in message ... | Two ways. | 1. make a slit with a hot knife 2" long just above the bolt rope and | directly under the reef tie. Pass reef tie through slit. | | 2.Tie reef tie under boom LOOSELY so as not to stress the sail. | | Reef tie points are reinforced, but not enough to take the strain of | a foot slug or bolt rope. Yes.. I've utilized the loose tie under the boom. I found it lacking in effect and prone to misjudgment by crew. I have never heard nor seen employed the technique of cuts along the foot. I would imagine such a procedure would adversely affect the sail... especially without reinforcement. At any rate.. I have never heard of a mainsail referred to as a "reefer sail" either manufactured with your suggested cuts [ which I've never seen] prior to or after the reintroduction of the free footed main by sail manufacturers. Every vessel I've sailed on with a bolt rope along the foot and equipped with reefing points used the tie around the boom method. Some people believe the free footed design is a new concept... I doubt that's accurate. The free footed main allows for a cleaner, better shaped and easier method of securing reefs. CM |
free foot main
Neal,
You say you ease the outhaul to get a fuller sail, How do you secure the outhaul to keep the full trim? Ole Thom |
free foot main
The "Hot knife" method was suggested by a sail maker "Mack Sails" as
a way of installing their Mack Pack sail cover on a bolt roped main, with no adverse effect on the sail. In point of fact, all the boats I've owned or sailed on have had slug footed mains, so passing the reef ties was never an issue. I spoke to the sail maker who made my sails (Jasper and Bailey). He is not convinced that loose footed or fixed makes any difference on a CRUISING main. This weekend, I'm going to remove the attached foot of my main and fly it loose. if it works out, I'm just going to cut the slugs off et voila, a loose footed main. On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 19:57:28 -0300, "Capt. Mooron" wrote: "Marc" wrote in message .. . | Two ways. | 1. make a slit with a hot knife 2" long just above the bolt rope and | directly under the reef tie. Pass reef tie through slit. | | 2.Tie reef tie under boom LOOSELY so as not to stress the sail. | | Reef tie points are reinforced, but not enough to take the strain of | a foot slug or bolt rope. Yes.. I've utilized the loose tie under the boom. I found it lacking in effect and prone to misjudgment by crew. I have never heard nor seen employed the technique of cuts along the foot. I would imagine such a procedure would adversely affect the sail... especially without reinforcement. At any rate.. I have never heard of a mainsail referred to as a "reefer sail" either manufactured with your suggested cuts [ which I've never seen] prior to or after the reintroduction of the free footed main by sail manufacturers. Every vessel I've sailed on with a bolt rope along the foot and equipped with reefing points used the tie around the boom method. Some people believe the free footed design is a new concept... I doubt that's accurate. The free footed main allows for a cleaner, better shaped and easier method of securing reefs. CM |
free foot main
"Marc" wrote in message ... | The "Hot knife" method was suggested by a sail maker "Mack Sails" as | a way of installing their Mack Pack sail cover on a bolt roped main, | with no adverse effect on the sail. In point of fact, all the boats | I've owned or sailed on have had slug footed mains, so passing the | reef ties was never an issue. There ya go... but you don't find slug footed sails all that often on boats under 35 feet. | I spoke to the sail maker who made my sails (Jasper and Bailey). He is | not convinced that loose footed or fixed makes any difference on a | CRUISING main. This weekend, I'm going to remove the attached foot | of my main and fly it loose. if it works out, I'm just going to cut | the slugs off et voila, a loose footed main. I'd be interested to hear your verdict. I'm not certain why your sailmaker claims it wouldn't make a difference. I have my outhaul and two lines [#2] run back to the cockpit. I find I adjust the outhaul quite a bit when sailing since I've been flying free footed. I really like it much better... except when it comes to the drop and flake. Even with lazy jacks I find I get some spill off the boom. I was seriously considering a Stak Pak.... CM |
free foot main
Yes it does. What makes you say it doesn't?
Because anyone can tell from the pictures you posted of the damn thing. Your main just comes down and rolls into the boom on a smooth curve. A sail with a shelf foot looks like a loose foot when eased but it is connected to the boom by a light weight piece of sailcloth. That light weight piece of cloth forms a "shelf" when the outhaul is eased and it looks like a horizontal flat shelf. When the outhaul is pulled tight the "shelf" disapears under the stretched foot. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport |
free foot main
Here is a quote from the "Mainsail Instructions" that came with the sail.
You got the wrong papers with the sail. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport |
free foot main
I got interested in the idea of a loose footed main after sailing my
friends boat with an in mast furling main. Adjusting the outhaul had immediate , dramatic, and visible effect. Also having the outhaul control right to hand made it a control of first resort. I think that we lose sight of the effectiveness of various sail contols when we have to expend extra effort to use them and the results of the manipulation are not readily apparent. Especially single handing. On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 21:38:37 -0300, "Capt. Mooron" wrote: "Marc" wrote in message .. . | The "Hot knife" method was suggested by a sail maker "Mack Sails" as | a way of installing their Mack Pack sail cover on a bolt roped main, | with no adverse effect on the sail. In point of fact, all the boats | I've owned or sailed on have had slug footed mains, so passing the | reef ties was never an issue. There ya go... but you don't find slug footed sails all that often on boats under 35 feet. | I spoke to the sail maker who made my sails (Jasper and Bailey). He is | not convinced that loose footed or fixed makes any difference on a | CRUISING main. This weekend, I'm going to remove the attached foot | of my main and fly it loose. if it works out, I'm just going to cut | the slugs off et voila, a loose footed main. I'd be interested to hear your verdict. I'm not certain why your sailmaker claims it wouldn't make a difference. I have my outhaul and two lines [#2] run back to the cockpit. I find I adjust the outhaul quite a bit when sailing since I've been flying free footed. I really like it much better... except when it comes to the drop and flake. Even with lazy jacks I find I get some spill off the boom. I was seriously considering a Stak Pak.... CM |
free foot main
You didn't miss anything. The pictures are too small and
of low quality. You can't really see anything worth seeing. Learn how to operate your little laptop. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport |
free foot main
You say you ease the outhaul to get a fuller sail, How do you secure the
outhaul to keep the full trim? A cleat maybe? S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport |
free foot main
Mine is.
Scotty "Capt. Mooron" wrote There ya go... but you don't find slug footed sails all that often on boats under 35 feet. |
free foot main
I quite like North but it's just a little overpriced against its
direct competition. North's prices are not that bad especially if you buy at the right times of the year. Quantum seems to be the high price leader. Actually a sail from any quality loft is just fine. Harrstick, Banks, Ulman, UK, etc. The one thing I wouldn't do is mail order a sail unless I was just trying to keep something like an old C&C 32 moving. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport |
free foot main
"The Captains Master" wrote in message | are they deep or shallow reefs? Depends...sometimes I get the cringles confused.... Bet yours are shallow..... :-) CM |
free foot main
That's what it does. It has the attributes you described. You guys sure make a lot of assumptions based on pictures that don't show it very well. Some nerve you have, too, trying to tell me what I have when you've not even seen it. S.Simon "SAIL LOCO" wrote in message ... Yes it does. What makes you say it doesn't? Because anyone can tell from the pictures you posted of the damn thing. Your main just comes down and rolls into the boom on a smooth curve. A sail with a shelf foot looks like a loose foot when eased but it is connected to the boom by a light weight piece of sailcloth. That light weight piece of cloth forms a "shelf" when the outhaul is eased and it looks like a horizontal flat shelf. When the outhaul is pulled tight the "shelf" disapears under the stretched foot. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport |
free foot main
Do you want me to take a picture one of these days and
prove you and Loco wrong. You may be mislead by the fact that you can see daylight between the boom and sliding slug at the clew. You may also note there is black webbing attaching the clew and said slug. I sewed the webbing on after the original broke in the same gale that also broke the boom in two. It also tore the material in the shelf in that area. I didn't bother fixing the small tear in the shelf because I felt it was of little consequence. There, does that make you feel better, little one? Or, do you need your sippy cup? S.Simon "The Captains Master" wrote in message ... Sorry Cappy, no shelf on that foot....you was robbed! On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 13:11:28 -0400, "Simple Simon" wrote: It is too a shelf foot, why do you day it isn't? S.Simon "The Captains Master" wrote in message ... On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 19:16:16 -0400, "Simple Simon" wrote: How does the bolt rope in the boom limit the trim? Mine bolt rope (3/8" polyester sewn to the sail) stretches as the outhaul is heaved tight and the sliding slug at the clew slides aft. The sail stretches at the foot and the shelf actually closes so it is not even evident. Only when the outhaul is slacked off to produce a fuller sail is the shelf expanded. Maybe your shelf-footed sail was poorly designed? S.Simon Ummm that's not a shelf foot Cappy! http://www.homestead.com/captneal/Thumbsup.html Bwaaaahahahahahahahahaha! What an idiot!!! Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
free foot main
OK, I'm getting tired of your crap. Let's bet.
Put your money where your pie hole is, boy. S.Simon "SAIL LOCO" wrote in message ... Here is a quote from the "Mainsail Instructions" that came with the sail. You got the wrong papers with the sail. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport |
free foot main
Hey, Thom you old fart,
Sincerely, S.Simon "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... Loco, His main is so old the original instructions were written with a quill pen ;^) That's why he sails so little, his sail retired two years before he didG When his main was made they didn't have shelves, they were called porticos That is why he is such a conservative Bush man. That is how his sails voted!! LOL And; "I'LL HAVE A DRAM OF SPICED RUM WITH MY TEA TONIGHT!" Ole Thom |
free foot main
Hey, Thom you old fart,
Sincerely, S.Simon "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... Loco, His main is so old the original instructions were written with a quill pen ;^) That's why he sails so little, his sail retired two years before he didG When his main was made they didn't have shelves, they were called porticos That is why he is such a conservative Bush man. That is how his sails voted!! LOL And; "I'LL HAVE A DRAM OF SPICED RUM WITH MY TEA TONIGHT!" Ole Thom |
free foot main
I've a stainless steel/brass, four block tackle attached to the end of
the boom the bitter end of the line of which goes around the end of the boom on a nice smooth radius built for that purpose and the line is secured by a clam cleat. Why? S.Simon "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... Neal, You say you ease the outhaul to get a fuller sail, How do you secure the outhaul to keep the full trim? Ole Thom |
free foot main
Hey Guys,
Neal's sail is (or was) self footed but is so blown out that there is no reason to ease the outhaul. That sail is baggy enough with full outhaul pressure. The shelf has become part of the sail. When he gets his new main he'll probably get the sail off the shrouds. Neal, we've never asked, are you going to specify a shelf in your new sail? You could save a buck or two with a simple closed footed sail. OT |
free foot main
Neal,
You described how you tension the foot of your sail. I asked how you set the outhaul when you ease it? Do you just depend on the boltrope tension? What draws the outhaul in and maintains its' position. Even on my old sail, with the shelf, I had a drawstring on the foot to control the curve. You've never mentioned what maintains the curve of the foot you set. Does the bolt rope supply enough tension to keep the outhaul fast against the cleat? I figured that the bolt rope is looser after all these years. Just curious? OT |
free foot main
It's gonna have a shelf-foot just like the North.
Here are the specs. Coronado 27 - Mainsail, P-27' E-9.5' area 134 ft2 - cross cut 6.9 US oz dacron - white color 4 x standard battens 2 reef points at 4' and 8' above boom with clam cleat at each reef Triple Stitch Aluminum Headboard Leechline with clam cleat Luff : 1/2" slug slides Shelf foot Foot hardware is included (sliding slug 3/8" diameter) Number : 91 in black color on both side Coronado Insignia on both side in black color Tack Offset : a-5 3/8", b-1", c-sliding, d-6", e-1", f-3/4" Patches at head, tack, clew and reef Telltales Sailbag USD515.95 Of course there's also a working jib to match: Coronado 27 - 100% Hanks Jib, I-32.4' J-10.75 luff-27' leech-22' foot-12' area 130 ft2 - cross cut 6.9 US oz dacron - white color Hanks on luff (3/16" forestay wire) Triple Stitch Draft Strip Leechline & Footline with clam cleat Patches at head, tack and clew Telltales Sailbag USD379.70 Jealous? When they're delivered in about two to three weeks I'll bend 'em on and go sailing. I'll take some pictures and make a new page so you can compare with the old pages. If they impress me I'll even put in a good word and a link for the sailmaker. Maybe drum up some more business for him. That way when I sail to Honk Kong some day, I'll have a contact there. S.Simon - the one and only Master Mariner in the newsgroup. "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... Hey Guys, Neal's sail is (or was) self footed but is so blown out that there is no reason to ease the outhaul. That sail is baggy enough with full outhaul pressure. The shelf has become part of the sail. When he gets his new main he'll probably get the sail off the shrouds. Neal, we've never asked, are you going to specify a shelf in your new sail? You could save a buck or two with a simple closed footed sail. OT |
free foot main
The boltrope stretches when the outhaul is heaved tight.
The shelf collapses and folds so it can't be seen. The boltrope contracts when the outhaul is slacked off. The shelf expands to fit the shape of the more rounded foot. The boltrope is made of polyester. There's a leech line but no foot line. There's always enough pressure on the outhaul to make the clam cleat work just fine. S.Simon - a shelf-footed aficionado "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... Neal, You described how you tension the foot of your sail. I asked how you set the outhaul when you ease it? Do you just depend on the boltrope tension? What draws the outhaul in and maintains its' position. Even on my old sail, with the shelf, I had a drawstring on the foot to control the curve. You've never mentioned what maintains the curve of the foot you set. Does the bolt rope supply enough tension to keep the outhaul fast against the cleat? I figured that the bolt rope is looser after all these years. Just curious? OT |
free foot main
Hey Simple,
I think the free footed main has won the battle with me today, Took my dog down to the boat to do some work on the vanish. Went down about 0900 and the wood was still damp from last nights rain. Rigged a leash to keep dog on the boat and took off single handed to get some fresh dungeness crabs. Had my limit in about a hour and a half (Which is pretty good) The point of this posting was the joy and the ease of working the main boom from either side with full access to both sides thru the opening under the foot of the sail. It makes sailing solo for the ole man, reasonably again Went out in ghosting conditions, ease the outhaul and took up on the drawstring from the starboard side of the boom although the cleat for the outhaul line is on the port side as is the cam cleat for the drawstring. Worked very comfortable from the Pilothouse Roof. Wind picked up on the way across the Bay. Rolled the furler to 100% and flattened the main, Again from the off side of the boom. No problem. Played around out in the Bay for awhile in about 10 Knts wind working on my performance curve. Started in from about 8 miles out with a downwind return to the harbor. Set the Spinn Pole and made another discovery. The safety line I installed for balance to the Bow, clips to the Spinn Ring. When I unclipped it to set the pole, I unclipped it and clipped it to the middle ring to the Lazy Jacks. A great made to order preventer! I don't think I'll be using it for that. I have twin cruising vangs which go back to the cockpit and are controlled at the helm Those are also my preventers So far the performance is equal or better than my old sail but not sure if it is all the sail or the better bottom BUT I'm sold on the sail the way it is. Anyway, I hope you are as happy with your new suit of sails as I am And: I'LL DRINK TO THAT!" Ole Thom |
free foot main
What's this about cleating off on one side of the boom or the other?
Have you ever considered if you put the cleat on the bottom of the boom that it would always be equally accessable. That's where I put the cleat for my outhaul. There's no need to reach around the shelf on either tack. I'm sure the performance gains you see are because of the new shape and less porous material of your new main and has very little to do with a shelf or lack thereof. The shelf only works in light wind conditions anyway where it is expanded and has a chance to act like an endplate and thus control the vortex better than a free-footed sail ever can hope to do. I won't have my new sails for at least two to three weeks but I'm sure I'll be very happy with them. Even changed the position of the reef points from my North. North was 3 feet and 6 six feet from boom. I changed it to 4 feet and 8 feet from the boom. That way in gales I'll be double reefed and only have 19 feet of luff which puts the head of the sail closer to where the lower shrouds attach for better support of the mast. I'll only have to use my storm trysail for REALLY high winds. I sent the sailmaker a .tif of the Coronado insignia this morning. Should get final order confirmation tomorrow. Enjoy those crabs. S.Simon - one of two real sailors on this group to have brand new working sails. The rest of you can continue to sail with your worn out sails. "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... Hey Simple, I think the free footed main has won the battle with me today, Took my dog down to the boat to do some work on the vanish. Went down about 0900 and the wood was still damp from last nights rain. Rigged a leash to keep dog on the boat and took off single handed to get some fresh dungeness crabs. Had my limit in about a hour and a half (Which is pretty good) The point of this posting was the joy and the ease of working the main boom from either side with full access to both sides thru the opening under the foot of the sail. It makes sailing solo for the ole man, reasonably again Went out in ghosting conditions, ease the outhaul and took up on the drawstring from the starboard side of the boom although the cleat for the outhaul line is on the port side as is the cam cleat for the drawstring. Worked very comfortable from the Pilothouse Roof. Wind picked up on the way across the Bay. Rolled the furler to 100% and flattened the main, Again from the off side of the boom. No problem. Played around out in the Bay for awhile in about 10 Knts wind working on my performance curve. Started in from about 8 miles out with a downwind return to the harbor. Set the Spinn Pole and made another discovery. The safety line I installed for balance to the Bow, clips to the Spinn Ring. When I unclipped it to set the pole, I unclipped it and clipped it to the middle ring to the Lazy Jacks. A great made to order preventer! I don't think I'll be using it for that. I have twin cruising vangs which go back to the cockpit and are controlled at the helm Those are also my preventers So far the performance is equal or better than my old sail but not sure if it is all the sail or the better bottom BUT I'm sold on the sail the way it is. Anyway, I hope you are as happy with your new suit of sails as I am And: I'LL DRINK TO THAT!" Ole Thom |
free foot main
On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 12:03:37 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote this crap: What's this about cleating off on one side of the boom or the other? Have you ever considered if you put the cleat on the bottom of the boom that it would always be equally accessable. That's where I put the cleat for my outhaul. There's no need to reach around the shelf on either tack. Mine runs all the way through the boom, then down the mast, under the deck, and back to the cockpit. That seems like the only sensible way to do it. Ave Imperator Bush! Bush Was Right! Four More Years! |
free foot main
Hey Neal.
I got so damn tired of the damn lines falling off the cleats when they were under the boom, on my other boat. It was like a cultivater dragging across the coach roof on each tack.. I moved them and swore I'd never mount another cleat under the boom again. So, on this boat they are mounted each side except for one. MY OUTHAUL LINE. Do you think I can get that damn thing off. No way. So I have to tie the extra line in place, while all the rest I can pull a loop thru an hang the excess on the side of the boom. |
free foot main
I tried that also Hero,
It made a damn rat's nest out of the cockpit always at the worst time. With the Pilothouse,I went back to termination at the mast at roof level ( tigh heigth) I do have to leave the cockpit but I can do it without fouling in loose lines. Ole Thom P/S As old age is creeping up I am considering going back to that system. |
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