Church & State...
 

Ya laugh at the idiocy of a nation run by a fanatical Muslim religion like
in Iraq and Iran... then you see the American finger pointers wailing and
praying and rolling on the ground because they removed a Christian religious
monument from a Federal Building!!!

It's beyond ludicrous... it's hilarious. I've been watching it on TV...
I've never seen such fanatic, illogical, religious, red neck, bigoted,
narrow minded, backward assembly of idiots in a long while! The world is
laughing at you.... again!

.... and to top it off.... the 10th commandment is.. thou shall not covet!!!!

CM

Church & State...
 

They claimed 78% of the state was opposed to moving a Christian religious
monument.... that in no way indicates a minority. Can't you see how this is
viewed around the world? ... and it is being viewed I assure you. In Canada
we don't seem to have the religious zealots in the numbers you have in the
USA.

Weather you claim that it is representative or not... your own media is
doing more to damage your image than you seem to understand. Other countries
will look at this and see little difference between the Christian Fanatics
and the Muslim Fanatics.

CM

"katysails" wrote in message
...
Mooron,
Those people are hardly representative of the religious people of the USA.
They, also, are fanatics in their own way.

The census figures for religions in 1989 we
Religions: Protestant 56%, Roman Catholic 28%, Jewish 2%, other 4%, none 10%

Protestant incorporates many different religions, some "catholic" in their
viewpoints (Episcopalian, Lutheran, etc) and then there are the Calvinists
(Presbyterians, Reformed, etc.), and then you have the Baptists and
Methodists and Congregationalists, which are all pretty mainstream. And then
you have the fundamentalists. Isn't it funny, that whenever you see the
word fundamentalist, you can almost always also use the word fanatic? These
people are a small percentage of the religious community, but they shout
loud, shake fist harder, and bully their way through to make their point,
which is unassailable (according to their tenants). There are more
Catholics in the USA then any one other religion. Did you see them out
there sitting on the stone? They didn't. And neither did most of the
Protestants. Stop making over generalizations about loudmouthed boors that
try to foist their ideas and their holy righteousness on everyone else in
the name of God, democracy, and union. Religion really has nothing to do
with this issue at all. These people haven't yet realized that if you
cannot keep the law un your heart, you cannot keep the law in your life.



--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Church & State...
 

Hey Mooron,

We can't help how other people view us. That really isn't your problem,
is it?

"The difference between Genius and Stupidity is, Genius has limits."
(A.E.)

You better find your limits, don't you think?

Ole Thom

Church & State...
 

Hey CM, give us a break. You do know we're talking about Alabama here,
right?
Scout


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
Ya laugh at the idiocy of a nation run by a fanatical Muslim religion like
in Iraq and Iran... then you see the American finger pointers wailing and
praying and rolling on the ground because they removed a Christian
religious
monument from a Federal Building!!!

It's beyond ludicrous... it's hilarious. I've been watching it on TV...
I've never seen such fanatic, illogical, religious, red neck, bigoted,
narrow minded, backward assembly of idiots in a long while! The world is
laughing at you.... again!

... and to top it off.... the 10th commandment is.. thou shall not
covet!!!!

CM

Church & State...
 

Ironically the ten commandments belonged to the Jews, so this would be a
Jewish religious monument.
--
----
Steve
S/V Pony Express

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
They claimed 78% of the state was opposed to moving a Christian religious
monument.... that in no way indicates a minority. Can't you see how this
is
viewed around the world? ... and it is being viewed I assure you. In
Canada
we don't seem to have the religious zealots in the numbers you have in the
USA.

Weather you claim that it is representative or not... your own media is
doing more to damage your image than you seem to understand. Other
countries
will look at this and see little difference between the Christian Fanatics
and the Muslim Fanatics.

CM

"katysails" wrote in message
...
Mooron,
Those people are hardly representative of the religious people of the USA.
They, also, are fanatics in their own way.

The census figures for religions in 1989 we
Religions: Protestant 56%, Roman Catholic 28%, Jewish 2%, other 4%, none
10%

Protestant incorporates many different religions, some "catholic" in their
viewpoints (Episcopalian, Lutheran, etc) and then there are the Calvinists
(Presbyterians, Reformed, etc.), and then you have the Baptists and
Methodists and Congregationalists, which are all pretty mainstream. And
then
you have the fundamentalists. Isn't it funny, that whenever you see the
word fundamentalist, you can almost always also use the word fanatic?
These
people are a small percentage of the religious community, but they shout
loud, shake fist harder, and bully their way through to make their point,
which is unassailable (according to their tenants). There are more
Catholics in the USA then any one other religion. Did you see them out
there sitting on the stone? They didn't. And neither did most of the
Protestants. Stop making over generalizations about loudmouthed boors
that
try to foist their ideas and their holy righteousness on everyone else in
the name of God, democracy, and union. Religion really has nothing to do
with this issue at all. These people haven't yet realized that if you
cannot keep the law un your heart, you cannot keep the law in your life.



--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Church & State...
 

Mooron,
I would like to remind you that one of the BIG 3 media men, Peter =
Jennings, is Canadian and has always operated in that ABC has operated =
in that manner for a long time....media is media....what they can't see, =
they invent. And yes, there are states that hold the preponderancy of =
fundamentalists....We are also the nation where the majority has elected =
to eliminate prayer in school....

--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Church & State...
 

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
| Hey Mooron,
|
| We can't help how other people view us. That really isn't your problem,
| is it?

Yeah Thom... you can certainly help it... quit acting like tyhe backward
assholes you keep pointing your fingers at.

|
| "The difference between Genius and Stupidity is, Genius has limits."
| (A.E.)
|
| You better find your limits, don't you think?

Genius has no limits.... only an idiot would assume it does... quit acting
like a Idiot!

CM

Church & State...
 

We got rid of prayer in school a long time ago... with no big ruckus.

CM

"katysails" wrote in message
...
Mooron,
I would like to remind you that one of the BIG 3 media men, Peter Jennings,
is Canadian and has always operated in that ABC has operated in that manner
for a long time....media is media....what they can't see, they invent. And
yes, there are states that hold the preponderancy of fundamentalists....We
are also the nation where the majority has elected to eliminate prayer in
school....

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Church & State...
 

"Capt. Mooron" wrote
It's pathetic you have even one state like that let alone a bible belt....
isn't the separation of church & state part of your basic governmental
basis?

Yes it is. The problem is that line is not always easy for some to see. The
roots of that separation clause are based not so much on the concept that
god and government are mutually exclusive components of a successful
society, but on the history of religious persecution that many
newbie-Americans had endured before coming here. The same world laughing at
us, in large part, is responsible for many of our citizens being here. God
I love irony.
Our founding fathers (your Uncles) believed in the importance of spiritual
responsibility. And why wouldn't they?; if the ostensible benefit of
religion is the promotion of moral behavior, a government would have to be
suicidal to denounce God. It would be counter-productive on just about every
level. But try balancing that with the equally important concept that no one
has the right to say who God is, what s/he/it wants of us (specifically),
what rules it should impose on society at large, how it should influence
national issues, spending, etc. etc. etc., and it's no wonder that we, as a
nation, appear to be constantly imbalanced and unstable, always ready to
fall from the high wire. I'm sure it looks funny from the spectator's
perspective, but that's only because they haven't reached the correct
conclusions about what will happen if that flailing guy falls. I believe the
majority of the world understands our predicament. Though they laugh, they
realize that our fall would start a mosh-pit on a global scale. The laughers
will run, of course, but **** would be flying everywhere (remember when they
blew up that whale on the beach?).
I don't consider us to be a melting pot as much as I do a high-pressure
boiler. We are a smaller version of the whole planet, with no oceans between
us to keep us from fighting. We have it all, people from just about every
culture, religion, ethnicity, tribe, neighborhood, and on and on, with all
that that entails, and we are trying to live together in peace and harmony.
It's gonna take a while to work out the bugs. I'm optimistic, but I think it
will take more than a few hundred years to get it together. If we can't do
it, it won't be any prettier for the rest of the world. How about giving us
a hand?
--
Scout
"Knowing the storm is coming only makes me more nervous."

Church & State...
 

Dear Scout,

THe flailing on the highwire is called "re-invention", a
continuing adventure that most outsiders fail to understand. And
it's that very dynamic balancing attempt that really makes the US
"the last, best hope for mankind". And it's no use asking for a
helping hand--almost no-one outside the US understands the
concept of re-invention, and the "hope" side of it they view as
revolting!

Now watch the piranhas boil in my WC bowl...

Flying Tadpole

Scout wrote:

"Capt. Mooron" wrote
It's pathetic you have even one state like that let alone a bible belt....
isn't the separation of church & state part of your basic governmental
basis?

Yes it is. The problem is that line is not always easy for some to see. The
roots of that separation clause are based not so much on the concept that
god and government are mutually exclusive components of a successful
society, but on the history of religious persecution that many
newbie-Americans had endured before coming here. The same world laughing at
us, in large part, is responsible for many of our citizens being here. God
I love irony.
Our founding fathers (your Uncles) believed in the importance of spiritual
responsibility. And why wouldn't they?; if the ostensible benefit of
religion is the promotion of moral behavior, a government would have to be
suicidal to denounce God. It would be counter-productive on just about every
level. But try balancing that with the equally important concept that no one
has the right to say who God is, what s/he/it wants of us (specifically),
what rules it should impose on society at large, how it should influence
national issues, spending, etc. etc. etc., and it's no wonder that we, as a
nation, appear to be constantly imbalanced and unstable, always ready to
fall from the high wire. I'm sure it looks funny from the spectator's
perspective, but that's only because they haven't reached the correct
conclusions about what will happen if that flailing guy falls. I believe the
majority of the world understands our predicament. Though they laugh, they
realize that our fall would start a mosh-pit on a global scale. The laughers
will run, of course, but **** would be flying everywhere (remember when they
blew up that whale on the beach?).
I don't consider us to be a melting pot as much as I do a high-pressure
boiler. We are a smaller version of the whole planet, with no oceans between
us to keep us from fighting. We have it all, people from just about every
culture, religion, ethnicity, tribe, neighborhood, and on and on, with all
that that entails, and we are trying to live together in peace and harmony.
It's gonna take a while to work out the bugs. I'm optimistic, but I think it
will take more than a few hundred years to get it together. If we can't do
it, it won't be any prettier for the rest of the world. How about giving us
a hand?
--
Scout
"Knowing the storm is coming only makes me more nervous."

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Learn what lies below the waves of cyberspace!
http://www.internetopera.netfirms.com

Church & State...
 

All good and true points Taddy, as usual.
As for the "how about giving us a hand" reference, I was being purposefully
ambiguous, hoping my good friend CM will continue to enjoy the laughter, but
will at least consider simultaneously applauding for the terrified
performer.
--
Scout
"Knowing the storm is coming only makes me more nervous."


"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...
Dear Scout,

THe flailing on the highwire is called "re-invention", a
continuing adventure that most outsiders fail to understand. And
it's that very dynamic balancing attempt that really makes the US
"the last, best hope for mankind". And it's no use asking for a
helping hand--almost no-one outside the US understands the
concept of re-invention, and the "hope" side of it they view as
revolting!

Now watch the piranhas boil in my WC bowl...

Flying Tadpole

Scout wrote:

"Capt. Mooron" wrote
It's pathetic you have even one state like that let alone a bible
belt....
isn't the separation of church & state part of your basic governmental
basis?

Yes it is. The problem is that line is not always easy for some to see.
The
roots of that separation clause are based not so much on the concept
that
god and government are mutually exclusive components of a successful
society, but on the history of religious persecution that many
newbie-Americans had endured before coming here. The same world
laughing at
us, in large part, is responsible for many of our citizens being here.
God
I love irony.
Our founding fathers (your Uncles) believed in the importance of
spiritual
responsibility. And why wouldn't they?; if the ostensible benefit of
religion is the promotion of moral behavior, a government would have to
be
suicidal to denounce God. It would be counter-productive on just about
every
level. But try balancing that with the equally important concept that no
one
has the right to say who God is, what s/he/it wants of us
(specifically),
what rules it should impose on society at large, how it should influence
national issues, spending, etc. etc. etc., and it's no wonder that we,
as a
nation, appear to be constantly imbalanced and unstable, always ready to
fall from the high wire. I'm sure it looks funny from the spectator's
perspective, but that's only because they haven't reached the correct
conclusions about what will happen if that flailing guy falls. I believe
the
majority of the world understands our predicament. Though they laugh,
they
realize that our fall would start a mosh-pit on a global scale. The
laughers
will run, of course, but **** would be flying everywhere (remember when
they
blew up that whale on the beach?).
I don't consider us to be a melting pot as much as I do a high-pressure
boiler. We are a smaller version of the whole planet, with no oceans
between
us to keep us from fighting. We have it all, people from just about
every
culture, religion, ethnicity, tribe, neighborhood, and on and on, with
all
that that entails, and we are trying to live together in peace and
harmony.
It's gonna take a while to work out the bugs. I'm optimistic, but I
think it
will take more than a few hundred years to get it together. If we can't
do
it, it won't be any prettier for the rest of the world. How about giving
us
a hand?
--
Scout
"Knowing the storm is coming only makes me more nervous."

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Learn what lies below the waves of cyberspace!
http://www.internetopera.netfirms.com

Church & State...
 

Hey, any country that can simultaneously produce and keep the
architecture of Vermont, Manhattan and southern California can't
be _all_ wrong! I just wish US schools would teach their kids
english AND english literature ---blunt hook warning

FT
--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Learn what lies below the waves of cyberspace!
http://www.internetopera.netfirms.com


Scout wrote:

All good and true points Taddy, as usual.
As for the "how about giving us a hand" reference, I was being purposefully
ambiguous, hoping my good friend CM will continue to enjoy the laughter, but
will at least consider simultaneously applauding for the terrified
performer.

Church & State...
 

haha, I'm working on it - Yeoouchhhhhh! - now my lip hurts!
--
Scout
"Knowing the storm is coming only makes me more nervous."


"Flying Tadpole" wrote
---blunt hook warning

Church & State...
 

Mooron,

That's not my Quote, it is the statement of ole Albert himself that you
are calling an idiot.

I can see that you are acting completely without limits, which does
leave me with little choice for a conclusion. I do believe I'll choice
Albert Einstien, rather than a "Mooron" :^) Sorry

Ole Thom

Church & State...
 

But why? It was, after all, a blunt hook. Did you bite your lip
while worrying about it?

Scout wrote:

haha, I'm working on it - Yeoouchhhhhh! - now my lip hurts!
--
Scout
"Knowing the storm is coming only makes me more nervous."

"Flying Tadpole" wrote
---blunt hook warning

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Learn what lies below the waves of cyberspace!
http://www.internetopera.netfirms.com

Church & State...
 

Impossible! Katy made me realize I have no teef!
--
Scout
"Knowing the storm is coming only makes me more nervous."


"Flying Tadpole" wrote
Did you bite your lip while worrying about it?

Church & State...
 

What amazes me is that for some reason you believe the USA is the only
"melting pot" on the planet. I beg to differ as Canada is as mixed an ethnic
pool as the USA. We have all the religions and a diverse population. You
don't see the type of heat generated here as you do with our Southern
neighbours. Religious beliefs are tolerated and those who practice it are
free to do so to the degree they see fit... within the context of the law.
It seems to me that there is a battle going on in the USA to maintain
Christian beliefs, English as the language and blind patriotism as the
guiding force to the exclusion of all else.

Your basis for the USA melting pot theory in comparison to the Europeans
just doesn't hold water. The immigration of people into Europe from all over
the globe has been and is continuing to change the entire area. It has been
doing so for a while. Maybe due to the diverse languages and cultures that
lived in close proximity for centuries has provided for easier adaptation
and acceptance of other cultures and religions.

My point was that the superiority complex exhibited by many Americans does
not hold up in the light of day... and much of their supposed generosity has
a steep price tag.

CM



"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...
| Dear Scout,
|
| THe flailing on the highwire is called "re-invention", a
| continuing adventure that most outsiders fail to understand. And
| it's that very dynamic balancing attempt that really makes the US
| "the last, best hope for mankind". And it's no use asking for a
| helping hand--almost no-one outside the US understands the
| concept of re-invention, and the "hope" side of it they view as
| revolting!
|
| Now watch the piranhas boil in my WC bowl...
|
| Flying Tadpole
|
| Scout wrote:
|
| "Capt. Mooron" wrote
| It's pathetic you have even one state like that let alone a bible
belt....
| isn't the separation of church & state part of your basic governmental
| basis?
|
| Yes it is. The problem is that line is not always easy for some to see.
The
| roots of that separation clause are based not so much on the concept
that
| god and government are mutually exclusive components of a successful
| society, but on the history of religious persecution that many
| newbie-Americans had endured before coming here. The same world
laughing at
| us, in large part, is responsible for many of our citizens being here.
God
| I love irony.
| Our founding fathers (your Uncles) believed in the importance of
spiritual
| responsibility. And why wouldn't they?; if the ostensible benefit of
| religion is the promotion of moral behavior, a government would have to
be
| suicidal to denounce God. It would be counter-productive on just about
every
| level. But try balancing that with the equally important concept that no
one
| has the right to say who God is, what s/he/it wants of us
(specifically),
| what rules it should impose on society at large, how it should influence
| national issues, spending, etc. etc. etc., and it's no wonder that we,
as a
| nation, appear to be constantly imbalanced and unstable, always ready to
| fall from the high wire. I'm sure it looks funny from the spectator's
| perspective, but that's only because they haven't reached the correct
| conclusions about what will happen if that flailing guy falls. I believe
the
| majority of the world understands our predicament. Though they laugh,
they
| realize that our fall would start a mosh-pit on a global scale. The
laughers
| will run, of course, but **** would be flying everywhere (remember when
they
| blew up that whale on the beach?).
| I don't consider us to be a melting pot as much as I do a high-pressure
| boiler. We are a smaller version of the whole planet, with no oceans
between
| us to keep us from fighting. We have it all, people from just about
every
| culture, religion, ethnicity, tribe, neighborhood, and on and on, with
all
| that that entails, and we are trying to live together in peace and
harmony.
| It's gonna take a while to work out the bugs. I'm optimistic, but I
think it
| will take more than a few hundred years to get it together. If we can't
do
| it, it won't be any prettier for the rest of the world. How about giving
us
| a hand?
| --
| Scout
| "Knowing the storm is coming only makes me more nervous."
|
| --
| Flying Tadpole
|
| -------------------------
| Learn what lies below the waves of cyberspace!
| http://www.internetopera.netfirms.com

Church & State...
 

Scout,

Your "High wire act" isn't always easy to understand but it isn't new.
The Jews called it; "Fiddler on the Roof" others call it, "Fork in the
road of Life"

You are correct! There must be "Balance"
I wish I knew a good solid answer sometimes but then I do realize that
things do change and right and wrong is a dynamic situation and never,
ever a final solution.

A Sailor should know that better than most people. To get the best
sailing takes constant trimming. You can sail with bad trim and that is
your business but it is best to get the best trim without busting your
ass in the attempt. Isn't that pretty much like LIFE?

And that's enough of that! Quarter after eight in the morning and I got
a new main to teach me my lessons for today. A thermos of coffee, my dog
and I are gone!

Ole Thom

Church & State...
 

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message ...
They claimed 78% of the state was opposed to moving a Christian religious
monument.... that in no way indicates a minority.


81% of Americans said it should stay.


Can't you see how this is
viewed around the world? ... and it is being viewed I assure you. In Canada
we don't seem to have the religious zealots in the numbers you have in the
USA.

We do not have all the draft dogers and cowards Canaduh has, So whats
your point?


Weather you claim that it is representative or not... your own media is
doing more to damage your image than you seem to understand. Other countries
will look at this and see little difference between the Christian Fanatics
and the Muslim Fanatics.


How many backwoods Alabama Fanatics are strapping on bombs and blowing
themselfs up? Just because your from Canaduh and to dumb to see the
difference dont mean the rest of the world is so stupid.


CA



CM

"katysails" wrote in message
...
Mooron,
Those people are hardly representative of the religious people of the USA.
They, also, are fanatics in their own way.

The census figures for religions in 1989 we
Religions: Protestant 56%, Roman Catholic 28%, Jewish 2%, other 4%, none 10%

Protestant incorporates many different religions, some "catholic" in their
viewpoints (Episcopalian, Lutheran, etc) and then there are the Calvinists
(Presbyterians, Reformed, etc.), and then you have the Baptists and
Methodists and Congregationalists, which are all pretty mainstream. And then
you have the fundamentalists. Isn't it funny, that whenever you see the
word fundamentalist, you can almost always also use the word fanatic? These
people are a small percentage of the religious community, but they shout
loud, shake fist harder, and bully their way through to make their point,
which is unassailable (according to their tenants). There are more
Catholics in the USA then any one other religion. Did you see them out
there sitting on the stone? They didn't. And neither did most of the
Protestants. Stop making over generalizations about loudmouthed boors that
try to foist their ideas and their holy righteousness on everyone else in
the name of God, democracy, and union. Religion really has nothing to do
with this issue at all. These people haven't yet realized that if you
cannot keep the law un your heart, you cannot keep the law in your life.

Church & State...
 

What amazes me is that for some reason you believe the USA is the only
"melting pot" on the planet.

Anyone with any ability to observe the world around them can see the USA is no
longer a melting pot. People that come to the USA these days no longer want to
"melt in" They want their own highway signs because they are too lazy to learn
the language. In some US towns close to the border Hispanics who have managed
to get into office have changed the "official" language in the local schools to
Spanish. Tell me that's "melting in"
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport

Church & State...
 

CM,
What superiority complex? Many of us feel under constant attack and
criticism by our lessers. (oh right, that superiority complex).
Anyway, I've never claimed that the U.S. was the only melting pot. But I
don't believe Canada has come anywhere close in volume, regarding
immigrants, nor has she had her infrastructure taxed to accommodate so many
so quickly, for so long. Furthermore, the U.S. has paved the way for much of
your established comforts and freedoms, in much the same way that union
workers make life better for their non-union counterparts. Do you really
suppose Western Europe would have been so easy on the reigns had the U.S.
not given them serious cause to pause? I think the various monarchs went
back and revised their play books after the U.S. Revolution, so as to not
lose all. Of course, that is just my opinion, but I see plenty of evidence
in human behavior to support it.
I think most Americans are happy to have you as a neighbor. We want you to
like Canada, to be proud of Canada, and no offense, but to stay there except
for the occasional friendly visit. We (most of us) like your country, and
with the exception of the incredible rudeness of Quebeckers who visit us
relentlessly and bless us with their pushy, arrogant mannerisms, and who, by
the way, are shining examples of people with attitude for no reason and
superiority complexes, we like you.
Honestly.
Now stop laughing at us or you'll get the evil eye, you know, the look, and
you don't want that do ye?
--
Scout
"Knowing the storm is coming only makes me more nervous."


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
What amazes me is that for some reason you believe the USA is the only
"melting pot" on the planet.

Church & State...
 

yes the country is taking a step backwards, we now have food lines --
which 60min showed last night on TV. The economy is in recession
Biz is dropping like flies. We had a record Bankruptcy after the WTC
got hit. Hope for better days ahead !!

NH_/)_
--------
http://nortech-cs.com/sailusa/index4.htm


"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...
What amazes me is that for some reason you believe the USA is the only
"melting pot" on the planet.

Anyone with any ability to observe the world around them can see the USA
is no
longer a melting pot. People that come to the USA these days no longer
want to
"melt in" They want their own highway signs because they are too lazy to
learn
the language. In some US towns close to the border Hispanics who have
managed
to get into office have changed the "official" language in the local
schools to
Spanish. Tell me that's "melting in"
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport

Church & State...
 

"Capt.American" wrote in message

| 81% of Americans said it should stay.

That says a lot..... none of it beneficial.

| We do not have all the draft dogers and cowards Canaduh has, So whats
| your point?

No ... your supposed right to free speech and superior ethics forced your
own people to leave to find refuge in a country that actually puts your
words into practice.


| How many backwoods Alabama Fanatics are strapping on bombs and blowing
| themselfs up? Just because your from Canaduh and to dumb to see the
| difference dont mean the rest of the world is so stupid.

No that's right... they just teach their kids it's okay to bring guns to
school and kill their classmates, that it's just another day when someone
gets fired and returns to take vengeance, that the government can go into
places and set up training centers like the School of the Americas to train
terrorists, or use trade leverage to rape other countries of their
resources, or supply Israel with cash and weapons to hold a piece of land
they couldn't possibly keep without interference, or to snub the world and
start a war on fabricated evidence. When terrorism is done to people you
consider opponents.. you label the aggressors as "Freedom Fighters" and
supply them with the weapons. Oh yeah you guys are just so friggin'
superior! NOT! You are responsible for some of the worst atrocities and
terrorism on the planet.

CM

Church & State...
 

Well said Thom,
btw- I love that story (Fiddler) and cover it with my 12th graders. As Tevya
says, "it's all about balance - we are just trying to not fall off the
roof!"
And you're right, sailing is a great analogy, look how everyone is laughing
at the guy who screws up, but is out there, for all to see, even as he
crashes into a warship or two. He would have been much safer sitting at his
computer and arguing about sailing. I say, look at the courage of this guy,
negotiating, albeit unsuccessfully, with two ships designed to destroy
anything that floats. I'll laugh at him for his dumb mistakes, but I'm
gonna applaud him too.
--
Scout
"Knowing the storm is coming only makes me more nervous."


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Scout,

Your "High wire act" isn't always easy to understand but it isn't new.
The Jews called it; "Fiddler on the Roof" others call it, "Fork in the
road of Life"

You are correct! There must be "Balance"
I wish I knew a good solid answer sometimes but then I do realize that
things do change and right and wrong is a dynamic situation and never,
ever a final solution.

A Sailor should know that better than most people. To get the best
sailing takes constant trimming. You can sail with bad trim and that is
your business but it is best to get the best trim without busting your
ass in the attempt. Isn't that pretty much like LIFE?

And that's enough of that! Quarter after eight in the morning and I got
a new main to teach me my lessons for today. A thermos of coffee, my dog
and I are gone!

Ole Thom

Church & State...
 

In college I was privy to a private debate between two of my professors. All
I wanted was to get a form signed but ended up in their office, hearing this
impromptu deliberation (they very nearly came to blows) about whether the
U.S. would have been better off had the Revolution not occurred.
Thanks for the suggestion too, I'll look for the book.
--
Scout
"Knowing the storm is coming only makes me more nervous."


"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...


Scout wrote:

snip I think the various monarchs went
back and revised their play books after the U.S. Revolution, so as to
not
lose all. Of course, that is just my opinion, but I see plenty of
evidence
in human behavior to support it.snip

See if you can lay hands on a gorgeous little book: Cammager,
Henry Steele and Giordanetti, Elmo (1967) "Was America a mistake?
an eighteenth-century controversy" Harper & Row. Library of
COngress Cat card 67-21563

From the viewpoint of Europe, a mistake it was indeed!!!! And
there was very hasty revision, much good it did the Bourbons.

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Learn what lies below the waves of cyberspace!
http://www.internetopera.netfirms.com

Church & State...
 

"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...
| What amazes me is that for some reason you believe the USA is the only
| "melting pot" on the planet.
|
| Anyone with any ability to observe the world around them can see the USA
is no
| longer a melting pot. People that come to the USA these days no longer
want to
| "melt in" They want their own highway signs because they are too lazy to
learn
| the language. In some US towns close to the border Hispanics who have
managed
| to get into office have changed the "official" language in the local
schools to
| Spanish. Tell me that's "melting in"

Explain to me how that never happens in Canada? Maybe since we have an
Official Languages Act??
Everyone here is free to speak their own languages. Some even form schools
to teach in their native tongue. It's just that we don't get threatened by
it....

CM

Church & State...
 

Sorry, that's Commager not Cammager

Scout wrote:

In college I was privy to a private debate between two of my professors. All
I wanted was to get a form signed but ended up in their office, hearing this
impromptu deliberation (they very nearly came to blows) about whether the
U.S. would have been better off had the Revolution not occurred.
Thanks for the suggestion too, I'll look for the book.
--
Scout
"Knowing the storm is coming only makes me more nervous."

"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...


Scout wrote:

snip I think the various monarchs went
back and revised their play books after the U.S. Revolution, so as to
not
lose all. Of course, that is just my opinion, but I see plenty of
evidence
in human behavior to support it.snip

See if you can lay hands on a gorgeous little book: Cammager,
Henry Steele and Giordanetti, Elmo (1967) "Was America a mistake?
an eighteenth-century controversy" Harper & Row. Library of
COngress Cat card 67-21563

From the viewpoint of Europe, a mistake it was indeed!!!! And
there was very hasty revision, much good it did the Bourbons.

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Learn what lies below the waves of cyberspace!
http://www.internetopera.netfirms.com

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Learn what lies below the waves of cyberspace!
http://www.internetopera.netfirms.com

Church & State...
 

"Scout" wrote in message
...
| CM,
| What superiority complex? Many of us feel under constant attack and
| criticism by our lessers. (oh right, that superiority complex).

If you feel it's an attack.... maybe you should try and understand why it's
so constant and focused. It's like you are stepping on someone's foot and
claiming he's screaming at nothing instead of looking down to see what
you're doing.

| Anyway, I've never claimed that the U.S. was the only melting pot. But I
| don't believe Canada has come anywhere close in volume, regarding
| immigrants, nor has she had her infrastructure taxed to accommodate so
many
| so quickly, for so long.

On a per capita basis... that's not correct. I believe the opposite is true.


Furthermore, the U.S. has paved the way for much of
| your established comforts and freedoms, in much the same way that union
| workers make life better for their non-union counterparts.

Pardon Me??? where the hell did you come by that notion? You established
nothing for us... we've done this and not at your discretion, nor
permission. Unions.... Bah! You're unions slipped in where if they hadn't..
other unions could have been formed in Canada.


Do you really
| suppose Western Europe would have been so easy on the reigns had the U.S.
| not given them serious cause to pause? I think the various monarchs went
| back and revised their play books after the U.S. Revolution, so as to not
| lose all. Of course, that is just my opinion, but I see plenty of evidence
| in human behavior to support it.

How can you be so ignorant of Canadian history. We've been a Commonwealth
Country since Inception. There was no revolution here. We appropriated the
BNA legally. We still have close ties with the British Crown.

| I think most Americans are happy to have you as a neighbor. We want you to
| like Canada, to be proud of Canada, and no offense, but to stay there
except
| for the occasional friendly visit. We (most of us) like your country, and
| with the exception of the incredible rudeness of Quebeckers who visit us
| relentlessly and bless us with their pushy, arrogant mannerisms, and who,
by
| the way, are shining examples of people with attitude for no reason and
| superiority complexes, we like you.

Quebecois are out version of Americans... so in effect you can dish it out
but not take it eh?


| Honestly.
| Now stop laughing at us or you'll get the evil eye, you know, the look,
and
| you don't want that do ye?

No.. we don't want to do that... Americans are generally liked up here.
It's your collective behaviour that is a cause for concern. We feel quite
free to point it out to you.. and that's not based out of fear... it's
family.

CM

Church & State...
 

What amazes me is that for some reason you believe the USA is the only
"melting pot" on the planet. I beg to differ as Canada is as mixed an ethnic
pool as the USA.

Wrong. The USA has areas like NY, where the concentration of mixed groups is
greater than anywhere else, except for prisons.

RB

Church & State...
 

We had a record Bankruptcy after the WTC
got hit. Hope for better days ahead !!

Hope for a better president than Bush.


RB

Church & State...
 

"Scout" wrote in message
| Scout
| "All we've ever asked is that you let us come up and shoot a moose once in
a
| while."

Oh Yeah... first you block the softwood lumber... then the cows... but now
you want the Moose!!!???

Why would you want to come up here and decimate our wildlife... shooting a
majestic beast like the regal moose. The epitome of wilderness and freedom.
To kill for the sport of it... it sickens me! To destroy such a creature so
you can hang it's antlers in your lodge and brag to your friends on how
great a hunter you are... never mentioning it took 3 guides, a gun bearer, a
tanker of fuel, a plane and a high powered rifle fired from a safe location
100 yards away.

Come up with a knife and we'll dip you in moose musk.. then we'll cut you
loose in a corral with a Bull Moose in rut and see how you fare. ;-)

CM

Church & State...
 

If you feel it's an attack.... maybe you should try and understand why

* You are 100% correct! Yet we are also accused attacking, unprovoked, and
I don't hear many outside the U.S. offering us the same courtesy you
propose.

| don't believe Canada has come anywhere close in volume, regarding
| immigrants, nor has she had her infrastructure taxed to accommodate so
many
| so quickly, for so long.
On a per capita basis... that's not correct. I believe the opposite is
true.
*That's coming dangerously close to using statistics to prove something that
isn't obvious otherwise, and we all know what that ugly American Twain said
about that! What would you say is the Canadian equivalent to our Statue of
Liberty? When did this mass immigration happen? Why did so many Europeans
chose America over Canada?

Furthermore, the U.S. has paved the way for much of
| your established comforts and freedoms, in much the same way that union
| workers make life better for their non-union counterparts.

Pardon Me??? where the hell did you come by that notion? You established
nothing for us... we've done this and not at your discretion, nor
* You've heard the words "no man is an island?" Neither is Canada. What
happened next door to you sure as hell did have an effect on your own
political outcome. You may recall we served the same crown for a time. We
didn't care for it. We fought it. Canada is a better place for it.
Furthermore, I think England and France became better places for it. That's
my opinion, as I've stated previously, but I think I could develop that into
a fairly convincing and supported thesis. This is not a slight against
Canadians either, it's just the way things worked out.


Unions.... Bah! You're unions slipped in where if they hadn't..
other unions could have been formed in Canada.
I'm confused here, I was using labor unions as an analogy. I have seen first
hand, how non-union workers have enjoyed increased salary and benefits for
no other reason than to keep unions out of a work place. By that reasoning,
non-union workers reap the benefits of the union struggle, and all without
lifting so much as a finger. That pattern is not restricted to labor.


How can you be so ignorant of Canadian history. We've been a Commonwealth
Country since Inception. There was no revolution here. We appropriated the
BNA legally. We still have close ties with the British Crown.
* I could rephrase your question and say how can you be so ignorant of human
behavior?
I'm no expert on Canadian politics, but I'm not completely in the dark
either. What are you calling 'Inception?' 1867? Nearly 100 years after our
Revolution? My point being that the rule of the crown softened much after
the U.S. affair. For Canadians to remain under the rule of the crown until
1931, and not have full independence until that recently, is surely a sign
of a kinder, more gentle crown. Do you think they just woke up one morning
and decided to be nice to the colonists? That's like saying we have the
civil rights amendment here because we suddenly realized some Americans were
being treated unfairly. Sounds good, but it didn't happen that way.


Quebecois are out version of Americans... so in effect you can dish it
out
but not take it eh?
* Oh we can take it Baby! And don't kid yourself, you'd make a great
American! Hey, with all that drinking and pot-smoking, geez, you could be
one of my cousins!


No.. we don't want to do that... Americans are generally liked up here.
It's your collective behaviour that is a cause for concern. We feel quite
free to point it out to you.. and that's not based out of fear... it's
family.
* Likewise, I'm glad we share this common freedom! I've handed my own
brother much sharper criticism than I've offered here. I think, I hope, what
you are really saying is that you don't approve of our leaders, at least at
this point in time. As for most Americans, most are working too hard to feel
superior, or inferior for that matter, to anyone. I really think that
feeling is being projected unfairly onto us. I mean, if we felt superior
wouldn't we know we felt that way? Seems like it would be impossible to not
be conscious of it.

Church & State...
 

Actually, I don't hunt at all (I sail, motorcycle, and camp) and was just
making a hunting joke while remember all the guns you've described on your
own hunting/killing adventures!
--
Scout
"Knowing the storm is coming only makes me more nervous."


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...

"Scout" wrote in message
| Scout
| "All we've ever asked is that you let us come up and shoot a moose once
in
a
| while."

Oh Yeah... first you block the softwood lumber... then the cows... but
now
you want the Moose!!!???

Why would you want to come up here and decimate our wildlife... shooting a
majestic beast like the regal moose. The epitome of wilderness and
freedom.
To kill for the sport of it... it sickens me! To destroy such a creature
so
you can hang it's antlers in your lodge and brag to your friends on how
great a hunter you are... never mentioning it took 3 guides, a gun bearer,
a
tanker of fuel, a plane and a high powered rifle fired from a safe
location
100 yards away.

Come up with a knife and we'll dip you in moose musk.. then we'll cut you
loose in a corral with a Bull Moose in rut and see how you fare. ;-)

CM

Church & State...
 

"Scout" wrote in message
...

| * You are 100% correct! Yet we are also accused attacking, unprovoked,
and
| I don't hear many outside the U.S. offering us the same courtesy you
| propose.

Maybe they understand that America as a whole views courtesy with contempt.
If you step on their foot they won't ask you if you did it on purpose or
not.... they'll punch you and brag about it.




| *That's coming dangerously close to using statistics to prove something
that
| isn't obvious otherwise, and we all know what that ugly American Twain
said
| about that! What would you say is the Canadian equivalent to our Statue of
| Liberty? When did this mass immigration happen? Why did so many Europeans
| chose America over Canada?

Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades..... America invited
immigrants... Canada has never done so.

| * You've heard the words "no man is an island?" Neither is Canada. What
| happened next door to you sure as hell did have an effect on your own
| political outcome. You may recall we served the same crown for a time. We
| didn't care for it. We fought it. Canada is a better place for it.
| Furthermore, I think England and France became better places for it.
That's
| my opinion, as I've stated previously, but I think I could develop that
into
| a fairly convincing and supported thesis. This is not a slight against
| Canadians either, it's just the way things worked out.

I can concur with that viewpoint.... to a degree. Canada was never in the
same development situation as the USA. Our nation was formed on the
requirement of natural recourses and their supply to England. Our climate
made for much more difficulty in development and I doubt the effect of your
revolution had as much impact on the way we were governed as you might wish
to believe.

| I'm confused here, I was using labor unions as an analogy. I have seen
first
| hand, how non-union workers have enjoyed increased salary and benefits for
| no other reason than to keep unions out of a work place. By that
reasoning,
| non-union workers reap the benefits of the union struggle, and all without
| lifting so much as a finger. That pattern is not restricted to labor.

It's probably due to my experience with regimes that demand blind patriotism
from their members and promote a blind hatred and defined roles to the
exclusion of common sense and freedom of choice. Unions had their time and
place... but frankly.. as I've stated at a union meeting before. we could
get better bargaining and accounting of our dues if we hired a legal firm to
negotiate the contracts instead of red neck, ignorant, uneducated idiots
with personal agendas and links to organized crime.

| * I could rephrase your question and say how can you be so ignorant of
human
| behavior?

The problems with being an optimist...

| I'm no expert on Canadian politics, but I'm not completely in the dark
| either. What are you calling 'Inception?' 1867? Nearly 100 years after
our
| Revolution?

Yes

My point being that the rule of the crown softened much after
| the U.S. affair. For Canadians to remain under the rule of the crown until
| 1931, and not have full independence until that recently, is surely a sign
| of a kinder, more gentle crown. Do you think they just woke up one
morning
| and decided to be nice to the colonists? That's like saying we have the
| civil rights amendment here because we suddenly realized some Americans
were
| being treated unfairly. Sounds good, but it didn't happen that way.

Not really... the factors cannot be corralled into such a narrow POW. France
was on the side lines and willing to take over the riches offered by this
country. The British Empire had to keep Canada if only to stem the growth of
the USA. I doubt it was the kinder gentler diplomacy that resulted from your
revolution.

| * Oh we can take it Baby! And don't kid yourself, you'd make a great
| American! Hey, with all that drinking and pot-smoking, geez, you could be
| one of my cousins!

You're not the first person who has said that about me. I've always admired
the self confidence exhibited by Americans.

| * Likewise, I'm glad we share this common freedom! I've handed my own
| brother much sharper criticism than I've offered here. I think, I hope,
what
| you are really saying is that you don't approve of our leaders, at least
at
| this point in time.

Keep in mind it's the nation that elects the Leaders.... I don't approve of
your direction as a nation.

As for most Americans, most are working too hard to feel
| superior, or inferior for that matter, to anyone. I really think that
| feeling is being projected unfairly onto us. I mean, if we felt superior
| wouldn't we know we felt that way? Seems like it would be impossible to
not
| be conscious of it.

It's called blind patriotism and I doubt if you were raised under it you
would be aware of it's effects on others ... let alone yourself. To raise a
point... during the tall ships festival here in Halifax there were many
boats from all over the world. All displayed their Flags of origin. The
American vessel had a flag that was huge in comparison... I'm talking a
third the size of the boat. The impression from a seven year old on my
boat.... "Who the heck do they think they are flying a flag that big...
this is Canada not the States and they're just being rude by showing off"
he was very upset.. with no prompting from the adults!

CM

Church & State...
 

"Capt. Mooron" wrote:

It's pathetic you have even one state like that let alone a bible belt....
isn't the separation of church & state part of your basic governmental
basis?

Trouble is most Americans, and most Canadians, et al, believe in "GOD".
Even my own kin. Point out that the original creation myth upon which
Genesis is based describes a group called Elohim, of which their god,
YHWH was neither the first nor most powerful even if the myth were true,
and they'll blink and ignore it just like they ignore the rest of
reality. How many Americans, Canadians, or whatever understand that this
"GOD" and Allah are one and the same - the GOD of Abraham? And that his
story arguably describes the best practical joke ever pulled. Go read it
yourself. Run out of UR, Abie marries his sister and gets rich pullung
the old Badger Scam. Then one noonday GOD comes trudging across the
desert on his way to check on rumors and when Abie finds that GOD
intends to smite his slums he does some serious haggling - jews GOD
himself down from 50 to 5 then can't produce! So GOD promises him all
the land between the rivers if (get this) he'll cut off the end of his
dick! And Abie agrees! And that joke is the basis for Judism,
Christianity and Islam! Jeeze, half y'all prolly had *your* dicks cut!
Given that level of simian intellect, is it any wonder we see wild eyed
fanatics everywhere?

Church & State...
 

What kind of test is it that you only have to miss one word to fail??

CM

"Marc" wrote in message
...
| Case in Point. I failed a sixth grade spelling test because I
| misspelled "does". My mother, at the time, used a laundry detergent
| brand named DUZ.
|
|
| On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:16:34 -0400, "Scout"
| wrote:
|
| Frank,
| Even with all the outrageous expectations placed on schools, they still
find
| time to do some serious and legitimate research. Take it or leave it,
here
| is some insight that the English teacher may have left out.
| There is overwhelming evidence (formal educational research) which
strongly
| suggests that teaching the conventions of English (spelling, grammar,
etc.)
| does not work, simply because it is taken out of context. Translation,
| students (people) learn the rules of a language much more effectively by
| exposure to others who use it correctly (i.e., via reading).
| Memorizing rules does not make significantly better writers. Reading well
| written literature does. Reading well written anything increases language
| skills. Well written work is focused, organized, has style, displays
| content, and obeys all the rules of the language. These things are nearly
| impossible to teach with memorization techniques. Reading teaches
language
| skills by example, the same way most of us learned to speak in the first
| place. At 3 years old, most of us could form sentences without the
benefit
| of grammar lessons. Why? Because we were imitating what we took in. We
hear
| before we can speak. We read before we can write (effectively).
| The catch, as I see it, is that many people don't like to read, for a
| variety of reasons. It's no wonder then, that they don't write well
either.
| Kids need to be read to from an early age, to have pleasant memories
| associated with reading, and to be encouraged and rewarded (initially at
| least) for focusing long enough to read an assignment. Good parenting
here
| is critical and irreplaceable. Like so many other things, if you can get
| them started early, they will enjoy much greater success later.
| One bit of evidence seems irrefutable: those who won't or can't read,
can't
| write very well either.
| The billboards you mention make a good point. The people who create them,
| I'm sure, know the rules of language well. Their casual (mis)usage
promotes
| and instructs others, albeit informally, to follow suit. They're selling
a
| product other than language, and have no direct stake in the educational
| outcome of their work. People see them, read them, and proceed to write
| using similar syntax. One way or another, we're all learning something.
|

Church & State...
 

I didn't say that was the only word I missed. It was the 4th incorrect
out of 10, giving me an F. What is even worse, I brought the detergent
box to school as proof that I was correct. Learned how to spell a new
word that day, HUMILIATION


On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:06:05 -0300, "Capt. Mooron"
wrote:

What kind of test is it that you only have to miss one word to fail??

CM

"Marc" wrote in message
.. .
| Case in Point. I failed a sixth grade spelling test because I
| misspelled "does". My mother, at the time, used a laundry detergent
| brand named DUZ.
|
|
| On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:16:34 -0400, "Scout"
| wrote:
|
| Frank,
| Even with all the outrageous expectations placed on schools, they still
find
| time to do some serious and legitimate research. Take it or leave it,
here
| is some insight that the English teacher may have left out.
| There is overwhelming evidence (formal educational research) which
strongly
| suggests that teaching the conventions of English (spelling, grammar,
etc.)
| does not work, simply because it is taken out of context. Translation,
| students (people) learn the rules of a language much more effectively by
| exposure to others who use it correctly (i.e., via reading).
| Memorizing rules does not make significantly better writers. Reading well
| written literature does. Reading well written anything increases language
| skills. Well written work is focused, organized, has style, displays
| content, and obeys all the rules of the language. These things are nearly
| impossible to teach with memorization techniques. Reading teaches
language
| skills by example, the same way most of us learned to speak in the first
| place. At 3 years old, most of us could form sentences without the
benefit
| of grammar lessons. Why? Because we were imitating what we took in. We
hear
| before we can speak. We read before we can write (effectively).
| The catch, as I see it, is that many people don't like to read, for a
| variety of reasons. It's no wonder then, that they don't write well
either.
| Kids need to be read to from an early age, to have pleasant memories
| associated with reading, and to be encouraged and rewarded (initially at
| least) for focusing long enough to read an assignment. Good parenting
here
| is critical and irreplaceable. Like so many other things, if you can get
| them started early, they will enjoy much greater success later.
| One bit of evidence seems irrefutable: those who won't or can't read,
can't
| write very well either.
| The billboards you mention make a good point. The people who create them,
| I'm sure, know the rules of language well. Their casual (mis)usage
promotes
| and instructs others, albeit informally, to follow suit. They're selling
a
| product other than language, and have no direct stake in the educational
| outcome of their work. People see them, read them, and proceed to write
| using similar syntax. One way or another, we're all learning something.
|

Church & State...
 

...at least you died trying! ;-)

CM

"Marc" wrote in message
...
| I didn't say that was the only word I missed. It was the 4th incorrect
| out of 10, giving me an F. What is even worse, I brought the detergent
| box to school as proof that I was correct. Learned how to spell a new
| word that day, HUMILIATION
|
|
| On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 18:06:05 -0300, "Capt. Mooron"
| wrote:
|
| What kind of test is it that you only have to miss one word to fail??
|
| CM
|
| "Marc" wrote in message
| .. .
| | Case in Point. I failed a sixth grade spelling test because I
| | misspelled "does". My mother, at the time, used a laundry detergent
| | brand named DUZ.
| |
| |
| | On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:16:34 -0400, "Scout"
| | wrote:
| |
| | Frank,
| | Even with all the outrageous expectations placed on schools, they
still
| find
| | time to do some serious and legitimate research. Take it or leave it,
| here
| | is some insight that the English teacher may have left out.
| | There is overwhelming evidence (formal educational research) which
| strongly
| | suggests that teaching the conventions of English (spelling, grammar,
| etc.)
| | does not work, simply because it is taken out of context. Translation,
| | students (people) learn the rules of a language much more effectively
by
| | exposure to others who use it correctly (i.e., via reading).
| | Memorizing rules does not make significantly better writers. Reading
well
| | written literature does. Reading well written anything increases
language
| | skills. Well written work is focused, organized, has style, displays
| | content, and obeys all the rules of the language. These things are
nearly
| | impossible to teach with memorization techniques. Reading teaches
| language
| | skills by example, the same way most of us learned to speak in the
first
| | place. At 3 years old, most of us could form sentences without the
| benefit
| | of grammar lessons. Why? Because we were imitating what we took in. We
| hear
| | before we can speak. We read before we can write (effectively).
| | The catch, as I see it, is that many people don't like to read, for a
| | variety of reasons. It's no wonder then, that they don't write well
| either.
| | Kids need to be read to from an early age, to have pleasant memories
| | associated with reading, and to be encouraged and rewarded (initially
at
| | least) for focusing long enough to read an assignment. Good parenting
| here
| | is critical and irreplaceable. Like so many other things, if you can
get
| | them started early, they will enjoy much greater success later.
| | One bit of evidence seems irrefutable: those who won't or can't read,
| can't
| | write very well either.
| | The billboards you mention make a good point. The people who create
them,
| | I'm sure, know the rules of language well. Their casual (mis)usage
| promotes
| | and instructs others, albeit informally, to follow suit. They're
selling
| a
| | product other than language, and have no direct stake in the
educational
| | outcome of their work. People see them, read them, and proceed to
write
| | using similar syntax. One way or another, we're all learning
something.
| |
|
|

Church & State...
 

Heheeee - looks like we're all jerks!
Scout


"thunder" wrote
Americans are not #1.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3185291.stm

Church & State...
 

On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:59:57 GMT, Marc wrote this
crap:

Case in Point. I failed a sixth grade spelling test because I
misspelled "does". My mother, at the time, used a laundry detergent
brand named DUZ.

You failed a spelling test by misspelling one word?

What a strict school!




Ave Imperator Bush!
Bush Was Right! Four More Years!