Here's to Donal!
 

Even allowing for the potential wind changes, I would have assumed that you
would have been much better off trying to stay in close.

How many hours of contrary tide did you have? What was the wind direction
? What was your course?

Is there a chart on-line?

Yes, I probably should have headed in for less current, but we were having a
grand time. Current ran against us from around 1:30 to 4:30. 245-250 SW was our
course, I believe. I have no idea if there's a chart online. I think Maptech
may have some freebee charts of the area.
Even yesterday, sailing out of Manhasset, we faced heavy current in the
afternoon, making our 7 knots into 4.7-5.0 OG.

RB

Here's to Donal!
 

| and I wanted more course options afforded by being in the center of the
sound.

This amplifies the importance of maintaining a hard plot on paper chart. How
did Suzanne derive the cross track?... by hand calc or by spot check
interpolation with the GPS?

How does this "amplify" the importance when we were, for all intents and
purposes sailing a short line of sight course? We estimated our losses at
aprox. 90 minutes and were quite close. For a 55 mile run I don't see the need
for more than crude navigation. We know the waters.
Next Spring when we do Great Gull and Block, we'll employ a higher level to
navigate safely.
In one respect, you're correct; the practice is probably worth the effort.
Maybe when we sail to Norwalk (a very short sail) we'll plot a series of
waypoints, calculate current and play by the book for the practice.

RB

Here's to Donal!
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
| How does this "amplify" the importance when we were, for all intents and
| purposes sailing a short line of sight course? We estimated our losses at
| aprox. 90 minutes and were quite close. For a 55 mile run I don't see the
need
| for more than crude navigation. We know the waters.

Must be the description of your trip that confused me...

You wrote:
"Observing the track set on the GPS, sailing on a reach, with 1.5-2.5
knots of
current against, we only deviated from our track by about a mile."

So you were on a single tack for this portion of the return trip? If you
completed several tacks ... how would you calculate the combined drift or
set for cross track error.. the changing conditions would not allow a
cumulative average unless you did the calcs on paper to derive it. Hence my
statement regarding a hard plot.

This description led me to believe that prior to the 20 mile leg you did not
have line of sight. My apologies... but it seems to read that way.

"Once 20 miles of the return trip were under the keel we could see the
Manhattan skyline and
it became a line-of-site sail, though i maintained a specific (245 If I
remember right) SW compass heading anyway."

| Next Spring when we do Great Gull and Block, we'll employ a higher level
to
| navigate safely.
| In one respect, you're correct; the practice is probably worth the effort.
| Maybe when we sail to Norwalk (a very short sail) we'll plot a series of
| waypoints, calculate current and play by the book for the practice.

I look forward to your report and the discussion it will surely generate.

CM

Here's to Donal!
 

This description led me to believe that prior to the 20 mile leg you did not
have line of sight. My apologies... but it seems to read that way.

We did not, nor did we face the worst of the current in the first few hours,
making our course fairly "true" especially in respect to the distance involved.
By maintaining our compass heading derived from the GPS, we barely deviated at
all.

RB

Here's to Donal!
 

| waypoints, calculate current and play by the book for the practice.

I look forward to your report and the discussion it will surely generate.

Indeed!

RB

Here's to Donal!
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
| This description led me to believe that prior to the 20 mile leg you did
not
| have line of sight. My apologies... but it seems to read that way.
|
| We did not, nor did we face the worst of the current in the first few
hours,
| making our course fairly "true" especially in respect to the distance
involved.
| By maintaining our compass heading derived from the GPS, we barely
deviated at
| all.

Ah.. I see how I came to be confused since you wrote... "How does this
"amplify" the importance when we were, for all intents andpurposes sailing a
short line of sight course? "
Cross track.. or drift and set are easier to estimate on a single tack and
more readily confirmed by bearing bearing fix or in the case of limited
bearing targets.. running fixes.

How did the Compass vs. GPS bearings compare? Did the discrepancy amount to
the Variation and did you get a chance to confirm if the Deviation error
made much of a difference?

Isn't this stuff interesting.... ;-)

CM

Here's to Donal!
 

How many hours of contrary current,etc other bull ****

Who the hell cares? Is each time a pleasure sail is made is it really
necessary to log every fart, every tack made, every change in wind
speed, every tide change?

I don't do that kind of log keeping. I'm wondering just how many of this
group really makes a log entry and completion of every afternoons sail
around the Bay? I DON'T. I don't really keep a running log of a simple
overnite in my immediate sailing area. I enjoy sailing! I hate paper
work! Keeping a running log is dumb paper work. If you like doing it,
then by all means do it. I think of all the millions of useless logs
recorded on private recreational boats is something that is over done.

I'm not a good log keeper. My log has more entries this season with less
sailing than I can ever remember. I logged the date of the new bottom,
the new main and the changes made because of it. Even at that I'm not
sure I haven't over done it? My filed copies of the paid bills are more
necessary than the log.

You pencil pushers enjoy your log duties. Don't expect to see a history
of each sail I've taken. You won't find it.

Right or wrong, that's the thrufffff and:

"I'll Drink to That!"

Ole Thom
P/S I'm heading for the Boat right now. Have a lot of catching up to do;
Wind is calm (below 5 knots)
Weather Forcast Rain
Distination (?)
Point of Departure Squilcum Harbor, Bellingham, Washington
Estimated time of Voyage (?)
Time of departure About a half an hour from now (1000 o:clock)
Completion When I'm ready
Crew list "Jazz" my dog

So there

Here's to Donal!
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message

| I have the GPS 76, but I returned the S version with built in compass
because
| it had bugs.
| I haven't really do much in the way of comparing the unit with the
globemaster,
| but I will do this next week if i get a chance.

Excellent.... it's a great exercise and I try to make certain my crew gets a
chance to partake whenever the situation offers. On auto helm in a dead calm
you can actually derive a deviation table that is fairly accurate.


| Yep...it's interesting when you ask good questions!

What questions did I ask initially that you would consider bad? I just
appreciate that you've overcome your defensive posture and agreed to discuss
your trip particulars on the group. See how informative and pleasant it can
be.

CM

Here's to Donal!
 

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
How many hours of contrary current,etc other bull ****

Who the hell cares? Is each time a pleasure sail is made is it really
necessary to log every fart, every tack made, every change in wind
speed, every tide change?

16 years ago, I set out on my first sea voyage. I was in a power boat that
was capable of doing 39 kts - according to the sales brochure.

The trip was from Chichester to Bembridge, and the distance was 6 miles
(IIRC).

I spent hours, if not days, planning the trip. I worked out the tidal
stream, magnetic variation and our course to steer. I tried to plot a
position every 10 minutes(very difficult on a power boat that is bouncing
along at 20 kts). Visibility was poor (1/2 mile). I cannot describe the
pride that I felt when the Bembridge Entrance marker appeared less than 100
yards off our port bow.

For the return trip, I didn't bother to do a passage plan. I simply
reversed the course. We ended up 4 miles west of Chichester entrance.
That was on a 6 mile trip!! Variation accounted for an 8 degree error and
the tide did the rest.

Bob claims that he has just done his first 50 mile trip. I would suggest
that there is nothing in his posts to suggest that he has just navigated 50
miles for the first time ever.


My first cross channel trip (75 miles) involved days of planning. Now I do
it in 15 minutes max.

You have many years of experience, and therefore feel confident at sea.
Bobsprit has never undertaken a long trip before, and therefore would do a
lot of planning, if he were the skipper.


Let's face it. If Bob actually did do the trip, then he wasn't the
skipper.






I don't do that kind of log keeping. I'm wondering just how many of this
group really makes a log entry and completion of every afternoons sail
around the Bay? I DON'T. I don't really keep a running log of a simple
overnite in my immediate sailing area. I enjoy sailing! I hate paper
work! Keeping a running log is dumb paper work.

Your comments are absolutely correct. I don't keep a log when I am sailing
in the Solent. However, Bob was describing a big adventure to a
destination that was well outside his normal cruising grounds.


Regards


Donal
--

Here's to Donal!
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
| What questions did I ask initially that you would consider bad? I just
| appreciate that you've overcome your defensive posture and agreed to
discuss
| your trip particulars on the group.
|
| It was actually Donal who asked questions directly and politely.

That's just misleading Bob.... here is an example of some discourse from the
thread:

CM - H-m-m-m-m 11 hours with an estimated 1.5 hour dinner break for a
total of
9 and a half hours of sailing. That would be what.. about 40 miles for your
boat?

RB - "This one's too silly to answer. Trying to figure a distance
travelled based on
the time?"

CM - that's a silly response.. with a hard beat and current you could
have
covered a linear distance of 20 miles with a distance over ground of 40
miles.

RB - "If you don't know the conditions, currents and so on, why guess at
all? You
silly"

I didn't realize you were so sensitive Bob!

CM