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A tough question for Jeff and Shen44
Subject: A tough question for Jeff and Shen44
From: "Simple Simon" Date: 07/28/2003 12:07 Pacific Standard Time snip It just so happens that this sound signal is also that of a NUC, RAM, etc. This means that any motor vessel hearing the required signal knows that according to the Rules it shall take action early and adequately to avoid a close quarters situation. In fog, how do you know there is a close quarters situation if you cannot see the other guy? Sound can be very deceptive in fog and should not be relied on as anything but "scanty" information ..... so....explain how you can take early action (other than putting the sound hopefully dead astern and praying that you are faster)? Rule 19 doesn't differentiate between signals - ALL vessels must respond to ALL signals! Did you ever even read the rules? Yes, and the way a motor vessel responds to the signal of a saiboat, NUC, RAM etc. in restricted visibility is to take action early and adequately to avoid a close quarters situation. Wrong The proper response of a sailboat upon hearing the fog signal of a motor vessel is to maintain course and heading and slow down or change course only if a danger of collision exists It's foggy... how would they know? because the motor vessel fails to take the appropriate action stated above. In other words the sailboat stands on until it becomes clear that continuing to do so will result in a collision because the motor vessel did not follow the Rules that apply to motor vessels. How do they know this? It's fog...they can't see..... If a close quarters situation eventuates it is solely the motor vessel's fault for not fulfilling its obligations under the Rules. Typically wrong The sailboat has not violated any Rule to cause the close quarters situation. The motor vessel has. Typically wrong If your point is that with the sail down the aux does not have to get out of the way of the powerboat, this is correct. However, if the situations were reversed, i.e. in the fog: a powerboat stopped, and a sailboat at full speed, it now becomes the sailboat's responsibility to avoid the powerboat. This is totally incorrect. A motor vessel underway but not making way is still obligated to stay clear of a sailboat and not cause a close quarters situation. It has a motor and it must use that motor to keep clear. The only exception is if the motor vessel is higher in the pecking order than the sailboat, i.e. NUC, RAM, etc. According to your silly statement any motor vessel could stop in the path of a sailboat on purpose and it would be the sailboat's responsibility to keep clear. Wrong. The sailboat is the stand-on vessel and must maintain course and speed. The whole of the above, typically wrong The motor vessel must take action early and adequately to avoid a close quarters situation. Based on what information...."Assumptions shall not be made based on scanty information" What pecking order? There's no pecking order in Restricted Visibility. Anyone who actually passed the test would know this. You have tried to claim there is no pecking order in restricted vis. but there clearly is a pecking order because the motor vessel knows when it hears the sound signal of a sailboat, NUC, RAM etc. that a vessel is in the area with which the motor vessel must avoid a close quarters situation. ROFL love the way you keep avoiding that towboat The concept of "pecking order" implies a priority that the rules explicitly say does not exist. "ALL VESSELS ... MUST REDUCE SPEED" It is true that sounding the "other" signal You seem to ignore Rule 6 which talks about safe speed. RULE 6 Safe Speed Every vessel shall at all times proceed at a safe speed so that she can take proper and effective action to avoid collision and be stopped within a distance appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions. Reducing speed to zero for a sailboat is not operating at a safe speed. Wrong it's just as safe as reducing speed to zero on a powerdriven vessel All vessels must reduce speed applies only to those vessels having speed to reduce. A sailboat going along at two or three knots in a fog does not fit the definition. It it reduces speed any more than it will not be operating at a safe speed as required by Rule 6 LOL that's pathetic A Coast Guard vessel tied up to and repairing an aid to navigation is in the category of "all vessels" and you are trying to say it must reduce speed? It can't reduce speed because it has no speed to reduce. The same goes for a sailboat. There is no way a sailboat can reduce speed to zero. Even if it lets the sails shake, rattle and roll it still will be making some way either forwards, backwards or sideways, furthermore it will not be operating at a safe speed as required. ROFL Again you attempt to make a sailboat adhere to rules that are meant only for motor vessels that can use their powerful engines and thrusters to stop dead in the water. ROFL conveys additional information that indicates extra caution is needed; it does NOT give a vessel standon status. I'm sorry if you are too stubborn to understand it but when a motor vessel is required by the Rules to take action early and adequately to avoid a close quarters situation with any vessel signaling it is a sailboat, NUC, RAM in restricted visibility then that means by definition that the motor vessel is the give-way vessel. Taking action to avoid a close quarters situation is giving way. It doesn't get any simpler than that. ROFL There clearly IS a pecking order and hence there IS, by definition, a stand-on vessel and a give-way vessel in restricted vis. ROFL The fact that one vessel should exercise special caution doesn't make the other vessel "standon." I'm not talking about special caution. I am talking about a motor vessels obligation to avoid a close quarters situation with a sailboat, NUC, RAM, etc. in a fog How about that sailboat and tug pushing a dinky empty barge....you explained that yet? Yes, it does make a pecking order. Taking action early and adequately to avoid a close quarters situation is giving way. Giving way means the vessel giving way is the give way vessel. I achieved a higher score than you did because I understand the Rules. I know the expected answers but the expected answers don't cover the above situations with a sailboat in a fog. You should be ashamed for being so closed-minded that you refuse to believe what is so evident. I think you need a good flogging at the mast! ROFL so..... you admit it...you didn't (and still don't) know the subject but you knew the answers from one of those exam helper books and passed the test. Shen |
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