Subject: A tough question for Jeff and Shen44
From: "Simple Simon"
Date: 07/28/2003 12:07 Pacific Standard Time
snip
It just so happens that this sound signal is also that of a NUC, RAM,
etc. This means that any motor vessel hearing the required signal
knows that according to the Rules it shall take action early and
adequately to avoid a close quarters situation.
In fog, how do you know there is a close quarters situation if you cannot see
the other guy? Sound can be very deceptive in fog and should not be relied on
as anything but "scanty" information ..... so....explain how you can take
early action (other than putting the sound hopefully dead astern and praying
that you are faster)?
Rule 19 doesn't differentiate between signals - ALL vessels must respond to
ALL signals!
Did you ever even read the rules?
Yes, and the way a motor vessel responds to the signal
of a saiboat, NUC, RAM etc. in restricted visibility
is to take action early and adequately to avoid a close
quarters situation.
Wrong
The proper response of a sailboat upon hearing the fog signal
of a motor vessel is to maintain course and heading and slow
down or change course only if a danger of collision exists
It's foggy... how would they know?
because the motor vessel fails to take the appropriate action
stated above. In other words the sailboat stands on until
it becomes clear that continuing to do so will result in
a collision because the motor vessel did not follow the
Rules that apply to motor vessels.
How do they know this? It's fog...they can't see.....
If a close quarters
situation eventuates it is solely the motor vessel's fault for not
fulfilling its obligations under the Rules.
Typically wrong
The sailboat has not
violated any Rule to cause the close quarters situation. The motor
vessel has.
Typically wrong
If your point is that with the sail down the aux does not have to get out
of the way of
the powerboat, this is correct. However, if the situations were reversed,
i.e. in the
fog: a powerboat stopped, and a sailboat at full speed, it now becomes the
sailboat's
responsibility to avoid the powerboat.
This is totally incorrect. A motor vessel underway but not making way
is still obligated to stay clear of a sailboat and not cause a close quarters
situation. It has a motor and it must use that motor to keep clear. The
only exception is if the motor vessel is higher in the pecking order than
the sailboat, i.e. NUC, RAM, etc. According to your silly statement any
motor vessel could stop in the path of a sailboat on purpose and it would
be the sailboat's responsibility to keep clear. Wrong. The sailboat is
the stand-on vessel and must maintain course and speed.
The whole of the above, typically wrong
The motor vessel
must take action early and adequately to avoid a close quarters situation.
Based on what information...."Assumptions shall not be made based on scanty
information"
What pecking order? There's no pecking order in Restricted Visibility.
Anyone who
actually passed the test would know this.
You have tried to claim
there is no pecking order in restricted vis. but there clearly is a
pecking order because the motor vessel knows when it hears the
sound signal of a sailboat, NUC, RAM etc. that a vessel is in the
area with which the motor vessel must avoid a close quarters situation.
ROFL love the way you keep avoiding that towboat
The concept of "pecking order" implies a priority that the rules explicitly
say does not
exist. "ALL VESSELS ... MUST REDUCE SPEED" It is true that sounding the
"other" signal
You seem to ignore Rule 6 which talks about safe speed.
RULE 6
Safe Speed
Every vessel shall at all times proceed at a safe speed so that she
can take proper and effective action to avoid collision and be stopped
within a distance appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and
conditions.
Reducing speed to zero for a sailboat is not operating at
a safe speed.
Wrong it's just as safe as reducing speed to zero on a powerdriven vessel
All vessels must reduce speed applies only to those vessels
having speed to reduce. A sailboat going along at two or three
knots in a fog does not fit the definition. It it reduces speed any
more than it will not be operating at a safe speed as required
by Rule 6
LOL that's pathetic
A Coast Guard vessel tied up to and repairing an aid to navigation
is in the category of "all vessels" and you are trying to say it must
reduce speed? It can't reduce speed because it has no speed to reduce.
The same goes for a sailboat. There is no way a sailboat can
reduce speed to zero. Even if it lets the sails shake, rattle and
roll it still will be making some way either forwards, backwards
or sideways, furthermore it will not be operating at a safe speed
as required.
ROFL
Again you attempt to make a sailboat adhere to rules that are
meant only for motor vessels that can use their powerful
engines and thrusters to stop dead in the water.
ROFL
conveys additional information that indicates extra caution is needed; it
does NOT give a
vessel standon status.
I'm sorry if you are too stubborn to understand it but
when a motor vessel is required by the Rules to take
action early and adequately to avoid a close quarters
situation with any vessel signaling it is a sailboat, NUC,
RAM in restricted visibility then that means by definition
that the motor vessel is the give-way vessel. Taking action
to avoid a close quarters situation is giving way. It doesn't
get any simpler than that.
ROFL
There clearly IS a pecking order and hence there IS, by definition,
a stand-on vessel and a give-way vessel in restricted vis.
ROFL
The fact that one vessel should exercise special caution doesn't make the
other vessel
"standon."
I'm not talking about special caution. I am talking about
a motor vessels obligation to avoid a close quarters
situation with a sailboat, NUC, RAM, etc. in a fog
How about that sailboat and tug pushing a dinky empty barge....you explained
that yet?
Yes, it does make a pecking order. Taking action early
and adequately to avoid a close quarters situation is giving way.
Giving way means the vessel giving way is the give way vessel.
I achieved a higher score than you did because I understand the
Rules. I know the expected answers but the expected answers
don't cover the above situations with a sailboat in a fog.
You should be ashamed for being so closed-minded that
you refuse to believe what is so evident.
I think you need a good flogging at the mast!
ROFL so..... you admit it...you didn't (and still don't) know the subject but
you knew the answers from one of those exam helper books and passed the test.
Shen