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Sailing Under Genoa Alone
So you concur with Bob's technique of sailing with only the Genoa and
leaving the main secure and wrapped in it's cover? This is just such a common sailing technique, used by every sailor (J-boats need not apply) at one time or another. Why would Mooron question it? RB |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
Basically when you sail it just makes sense to have all sails at the very
least ... immediately available. I can have my main free of the cover and it's ties in less than 30 seconds. Sadly, such a race will not enable me to fold the cover. RB |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
That's odd.... with six snaps, a zipper, two ties on the cover and a 6
point flexible sail tie underneath... it takes me at least a minute to two minutes to accomplish this and safely stow the cover and tie. Compound this with having to leave the cockpit and the helm under way it would make for a critical time load in an emergency...... considering there is no reason to have this situation develop in the first place. CM "CANDChelp" wrote in message ... | Basically when you sail it just makes sense to have all sails at the very | least ... immediately available. | | I can have my main free of the cover and it's ties in less than 30 seconds. | Sadly, such a race will not enable me to fold the cover. | | RB |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
That's odd.... with six snaps, a zipper, two ties on the cover and a 6
point flexible sail tie underneath... it takes me at least a minute to two minutes to accomplish this and safely stow the cover and tie. Sounds like I'll be making TWO videos!!! Under 30 seconds! RB |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
Compound this
with having to leave the cockpit and the helm under way it would make for a critical time load in an emergency... You forget that I'd be doing this sober. RB |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
"CANDChelp" wrote in message ... Basically when you sail it just makes sense to have all sails at the very least ... immediately available. I can have my main free of the cover and it's ties in less than 30 seconds. Sadly, such a race will not enable me to fold the cover. Really? 30 seconds? How long is your boom? Post some photos! Regards Donal -- |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
Yes, the proper yacht is designed with a bit
of weather helm under a balanced sailplan. "Jack Dale" wrote in message ... Wouldn't this setup induce lee helm? I prefer a small amount of weather helm. Jack |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:53:06 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote: Yes, the proper yacht is designed with a bit of weather helm under a balanced sailplan. Agreed. But your earlier description with the C of E forward of the CLR would induce lee helm. Weather helm is induced by keeping the C of E aft of the CLR. The problem with sailing under genoa, or any other headsail, only is that it induces lee helm (C of E is forward of CLR). Jack "Jack Dale" wrote in message ... Wouldn't this setup induce lee helm? I prefer a small amount of weather helm. Jack |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
a vile troll replied:
Mooron asked: So you concur with Bob's technique of sailing with only the Genoa and leaving the main secure and wrapped in it's cover? This is just such a common sailing technique, used by every sailor (J-boats need not apply) at one time or another. Why would Mooron question it? I agree with the concept of being prepared for unplanned eventualities; at least take the cover off and be ready to use it, if needed. I also understand the intent behind comments about "balancing the rig" but consider this from someone commenting on Hoyt's "delta" setup... "I once had a copy of a test on a Morgan 41' Out Island ketch where, upon removing the mainsail, the boat lost only 1/2 knot of speed, but cut its leeway in half (from 11 to 6 degrees). A staysail was then rigged between the masts in place of the mainsail, and the boat gained 1 knot of speed while retaining its decreased leeway." Obviously, "balancing the rig" implies that the rig is well designed and performs best when main and jib are "balanced." This example demonstrates that this particular boat (and I personally suspect many others) does not "balance" as well in reality as one might suppose. In point of fact, by eliminating the main the boat lost 1/2 knot but halved its leeway. That sounds like a reasonable tradeoff to me. Then, replacing the main with a staysail (essentially another jib, making it somewhat simulate the "delta" rig) they kept the reduction in leeway and gained a full knot. Harrumph! Reduced leeway plus added speed. Hard to argue with that. Frank |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
What's the engine go to do with it?
Cheers MC Capt. Mooron wrote: If some feel comfortable with proceeding on only one sail and leaving the other firmly bagged, covered or secured in storage.... I would only suppose they are secure that their engine is available and consider the auxiliary a preferable solution to proper sail handling and set. |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
Yes, that's you tell Sudzy right?
Cheers MC CANDChelp wrote: Sadly, such a race will not enable me to fold the cover. Really? 30 seconds? How long is your boom? It's a pretty short boom, but I could get most ANY cover off in 30 seconds. 30 seconds is a LONG time! RB |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
Unless the hull produces weather helm as it heels...
Cheers MC Simple Simon wrote: Agreed. In stronger winds this lee helm can be dangerous because heading up might become impossible. "Jack Dale" wrote in message ... On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:53:06 -0400, "Simple Simon" wrote: Yes, the proper yacht is designed with a bit of weather helm under a balanced sailplan. Agreed. But your earlier description with the C of E forward of the CLR would induce lee helm. Weather helm is induced by keeping the C of E aft of the CLR. The problem with sailing under genoa, or any other headsail, only is that it induces lee helm (C of E is forward of CLR). Jack "Jack Dale" wrote in message ... Wouldn't this setup induce lee helm? I prefer a small amount of weather helm. Jack |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
used by every sailor (J-boats
need not apply) at one time or another. Why would Mooron question it? Possibly because he knows the correct way to sail? Every sailor does not sail on the jib alone at some time or another...sailboats are made to sail with main alone, not jib alone.... -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
I didn't want you feeling left out of the discussion.... getting stuck
outside the harbour of discourse with a fouled prop, so to speak. I'm considerate... It's my nature. CM "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... | What's the engine go to do with it? | | Cheers MC | | Capt. Mooron wrote: | If some feel comfortable with proceeding on only one sail and leaving the | other firmly bagged, covered or secured in storage.... I would only | suppose they are secure that their engine is available and consider the | auxiliary a preferable solution to proper sail handling and set. | | |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
....sailboats are made to sail with main alone, not jib alone....
Katy, I'm afraid you're wrong about this. Many masthead boats will sail better under a jib alone then main alone, especially upwind. RB |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
You can twist and turn but it's clear you are worried about sailing
being unreliable. Cheers MC Capt. Mooron wrote: I didn't want you feeling left out of the discussion.... getting stuck outside the harbour of discourse with a fouled prop, so to speak. I'm considerate... It's my nature. CM "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... | What's the engine go to do with it? | | Cheers MC | | Capt. Mooron wrote: | If some feel comfortable with proceeding on only one sail and leaving the | other firmly bagged, covered or secured in storage.... I would only | suppose they are secure that their engine is available and consider the | auxiliary a preferable solution to proper sail handling and set. | | |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
Ha Ha Ha..... how perfectly odd coming from someone whose primary concern
was his inability to use the engine on his high performance sailing boat in 15 kt winds... because the folding prop was fouled!!! [I'm hoping for a full report from Tonga to replace this well worn tire] CM "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... | You can twist and turn but it's clear you are worried about sailing | being unreliable. | | Cheers MC | | Capt. Mooron wrote: | I didn't want you feeling left out of the discussion.... getting stuck | outside the harbour of discourse with a fouled prop, so to speak. I'm | considerate... It's my nature. | | CM | | "The_navigator©" wrote in message | ... | | What's the engine go to do with it? | | | | Cheers MC | | | | Capt. Mooron wrote: | | If some feel comfortable with proceeding on only one sail and leaving | the | | other firmly bagged, covered or secured in storage.... I would only | | suppose they are secure that their engine is available and consider the | | auxiliary a preferable solution to proper sail handling and set. | | | | | | | |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
Katy, I'm afraid you're wrong about this. Many masthead boats will sail better
under a jib alone then main alone, especially upwind. Catalina mentality.... -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
Katy, I'm afraid you're wrong about this. Many masthead boats will sail
better under a jib alone then main alone, especially upwind. Catalina mentality.... ouch |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
Katy, I'm afraid you're wrong about this. Many masthead boats will sail better
under a jib alone then main alone, especially upwind. Catalina mentality.... Nope. Physics. Most cruising mastheads get most their drive from the headsail when going upwind. With the main alone, you'll do poorly. What's more is that I think you know this. RB |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
Catalina mentality....
ouch Gay-Ganzy caught you in the zipper again? Hoooh ahhh! RB |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
What's more is that I think you know this.
Nope, I don't know that at all. I have sailed now for a quarter of a century and we have never sailed that way and never will because it is worng. It is the tall mast/150% genny mentality found in Catalina owners, most often afriad their boat is going to heel...that has been my experience...Wind comes up, main comes down...ooh ooh...the boat might tip. It's what Neal would sanctimoniously claim to be "lybber" sailing or "woman sailing" even though it's the guys who set the sails that way. We have a light displacement boat...if we sailed on the head alone the boat would not only waffle around but would also bury itself in the waves...You need more experience, Bobby, and need to get out of the weekend warrior mindset. -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 23:24:31 -0400, "katysails"
wrote: What's more is that I think you know this. Nope, I don't know that at all. I have sailed now for a quarter of a century and we have never sailed that way and never will because it is worng. It is the tall mast/150% genny mentality found in Catalina owners, most often afriad their boat is going to heel...that has been my experience...Wind comes up, main comes down...ooh ooh...the boat might tip. It's what Neal would sanctimoniously claim to be "lybber" sailing or "woman sailing" even though it's the guys who set the sails that way. We have a light displacement boat...if we sailed on the head alone the boat would not only waffle around but would also bury itself in the waves...You need more experience, Bobby, and need to get out of the weekend warrior mindset. You are so right about the "Catalina mindset'. They sell a LOT of those things around here (North Texas), mostly to inexperienced folks who think the ideal rig is a wing keel, tall rig and bigass headsail. We usually have plenty of wind around here, except in the hottest part of the summer and you can see those poor Catalina sailors either motoring or motorsailing because they are way overcanvassed with those big headsails. A really ugly sight. Then again, a friend bought a new Catalina 36 in 2000 and purchased a smaller headsail for heavier air conditions. Something along the lines of 85%, and then noticed that the headsail tracks on the 36 are so far aft that there is no way to use a smaller headsail without either adding or extending the headsail track. A real "sailors" boat:( I have sailed with main alone and headsail alone, but I recognize that I am just being lazy when I do it. I wouldn't sail under headsail alone unless I had forward and aft lowers. Some boats are less sensitve to being sailed that way than others. |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
sigh
Type "sailing under genoa alone" into google and you'll see MANY accounts of sailors, long distance sailors flying the single genoa in a variety of conditions. Sorry. Case closed. RB |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
-- Type "sailing under genoa alone" into google and you'll see MANY accounts of
sailors, long distance sailors flying the single genoa in a variety of conditions Just because people do it doersn't make it correct. Just because a few people say otherwise, doesn't make it NOT correct. It's common practice, by professional sailors in a variety of conditions. Do a search if you don't believe it. RB |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
Well said, Katy. This is difficult for me to admit but you are making much more sense than Booby and I love the "Catalina Tall Rig" comment. It hits the nail right on the head. Maybe you are more of a sailor than I've given you credit for being. "katysails" wrote in message ... What's more is that I think you know this. Nope, I don't know that at all. I have sailed now for a quarter of a century and we have never sailed that way and never will because it is worng. It is the tall mast/150% genny mentality found in Catalina owners, most often afriad their boat is going to heel...that has been my experience...Wind comes up, main comes down...ooh ooh...the boat might tip. It's what Neal would sanctimoniously claim to be "lybber" sailing or "woman sailing" even though it's the guys who set the sails that way. We have a light displacement boat...if we sailed on the head alone the boat would not only waffle around but would also bury itself in the waves...You need more experience, Bobby, and need to get out of the weekend warrior mindset. -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
You are such a cad, Booby. If you flew an airplane I suppose
you would cut one wing off and claim it flew better that way. Your argument is totally untenable and you know it. You just enjoy making a fool out of yourself for the sake of trolling. "CANDChelp" wrote in message ... -- Type "sailing under genoa alone" into google and you'll see MANY accounts of sailors, long distance sailors flying the single genoa in a variety of conditions Just because people do it doersn't make it correct. Just because a few people say otherwise, doesn't make it NOT correct. It's common practice, by professional sailors in a variety of conditions. Do a search if you don't believe it. RB |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
You are such a cad, Booby. If you flew an airplane I suppose
you would cut one wing off and claim it flew better that way. Cut the wing off a plane and it falls, killing the crew. Fly a genoa alone and all is well in a variety of conditions. Why worry about some pinhead who thinks you're sailing "wrong?" A real sailor does as he pleases. A dumb comparison from an even dumber guy on a awful Coronado 27! RB |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
It hits the nail right
on the head. Maybe you are more of a sailor than I've given you credit for being. Well, Katy. That proves I was right all along. I suggest you burn your mainsail. RB |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
I'd have to side with Booby on this - I often sailed my Nonsuch on main alone.
-- -jeff www.sv-loki.com If you can't say something nice, say something surrealistic. -Zippy "CANDChelp" wrote in message ... -- Type "sailing under genoa alone" into google and you'll see MANY accounts of sailors, long distance sailors flying the single genoa in a variety of conditions Just because people do it doersn't make it correct. Just because a few people say otherwise, doesn't make it NOT correct. It's common practice, by professional sailors in a variety of conditions. Do a search if you don't believe it. RB |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
"A low blow", says Lady Kate the cat-yawl.
Jeff Morris wrote: I'd have to side with Booby on this - I often sailed my Nonsuch on main alone. -- -jeff www.sv-loki.com If you can't say something nice, say something surrealistic. -Zippy "CANDChelp" wrote in message ... -- Type "sailing under genoa alone" into google and you'll see MANY accounts of sailors, long distance sailors flying the single genoa in a variety of conditions Just because people do it doersn't make it correct. Just because a few people say otherwise, doesn't make it NOT correct. It's common practice, by professional sailors in a variety of conditions. Do a search if you don't believe it. RB -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Learn what lies below the waves of cyberspace! http://www.internetopera.netfirms.com |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
Depends on the boat. For Solings, in heavy weather, they sail better under
headsail. Some people do this going downwind, to avoid accidentally jybing the main if they don't feel like rigging a preventer, or dealing with keeping a close eye on the main. It's not advisable unless you have a fractional rig. Witha masthead rig you might put too much stress on the mast/rigging without the mainsail to balance the load. Inten Ost. "katysails" wrote in message ... What's more is that I think you know this. Nope, I don't know that at all. I have sailed now for a quarter of a century and we have never sailed that way and never will because it is worng. It is the tall mast/150% genny mentality found in Catalina owners, most often afriad their boat is going to heel...that has been my experience...Wind comes up, main comes down...ooh ooh...the boat might tip. It's what Neal would sanctimoniously claim to be "lybber" sailing or "woman sailing" even though it's the guys who set the sails that way. We have a light displacement boat...if we sailed on the head alone the boat would not only waffle around but would also bury itself in the waves...You need more experience, Bobby, and need to get out of the weekend warrior mindset. -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
Do a search if you don't believe it.
Anything is possible on the Intersnet. Read some good sailing texts...they say it's poor form. You'll probably want proof. I would have to list at least a dozen tomes of sailing knowledge and you still wouldn't take heed because "The Internet agreed with me". -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
I suggest you burn your
mainsail. I can't until we can afford to replace it and then I plan to do just that... -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
It was a joke, Katy, a joke!
Actually, when I was using an Irwin 30, I sometimes sailed on jib alone. It had a huge jib and a tiny main. I could pull out the jib in a few seconds, but the main was rigged poorly and a pain to raise and furl. It also had a traveler across the cockpit that has sent several people to the emergency room (never while I had it). For reaching in open water the jib alone wasn't a bad option. However, I wouldn't do it upwind because it was far too unbalanced to safely steer it. The bottom line, however, is that the only reason jib-alone is a viable option at all is the poor design of the main. "katysails" wrote in message ... I'd have to side with Booby on this - I often sailed my Nonsuch on main alone. Uh, Jeff...that's not what we're talking about...sailboats are made to be balanced on main alone...we're talking about foresail alone.... -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:55:07 -0400, "katysails"
wrote this crap: I'd have to side with Booby on this - I often sailed my Nonsuch on main alone. Um.... Is there any other way? Ave Imperator Bush! Bush Was Right! Four More Beers! |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
Horvath wrote in :
On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:55:07 -0400, "katysails" wrote this crap: I'd have to side with Booby on this - I often sailed my Nonsuch on main alone. Um.... Is there any other way? Well, pretty much to be expected form someone as narrow minded as you.. Bertie |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
Actually, it is quite rare for a Nonsuch to sail under main
alone. They are such slow, wallowing pigs that they must usually sail with both main and iron jenny. "Horvath" wrote in message ... On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:55:07 -0400, "katysails" wrote this crap: I'd have to side with Booby on this - I often sailed my Nonsuch on main alone. Um.... Is there any other way? Ave Imperator Bush! Bush Was Right! Four More Beers! |
Sailing Under Genoa Alone
Not true at all Neal, the Nonsuch may not be the fastest upwind, but it does quite well
off the wind - in fact its a rather fast boat for a 30 foot cruiser. Its PHRF is equal to other 30's. such as a C&C, Hunter, Catalina, Beneteau. Since it doesn't do that well upwind, it makes up for it downwind. Even upwind, since its so easy to tack, there's no need to use an engine to work out of a harbor. Truth be know, I use the engines more on the cat because its so tedious trying to sail upwind out of Boston Harbor. "Simple Simon" wrote in message ... Actually, it is quite rare for a Nonsuch to sail under main alone. They are such slow, wallowing pigs that they must usually sail with both main and iron jenny. "Horvath" wrote in message ... On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 18:55:07 -0400, "katysails" wrote this crap: I'd have to side with Booby on this - I often sailed my Nonsuch on main alone. Um.... Is there any other way? Ave Imperator Bush! Bush Was Right! Four More Beers! |
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