"Simple Simon" wrote in message

| I can beat a Westsail 32 any day and your heavy full-keeler is
| slower than the average Westsail 32 by a significant amount.

Your ability to be in error is only surpassed by your inability to relate to
any vessel other than your own. It's a classic indicator of limited exposure
to a wide variety of sailboats.

CM

I believe Neal has confessed to being onboard two sailboats: a Hobie 16, and his beloved
Coronado.


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...

"Simple Simon" wrote in message

| I can beat a Westsail 32 any day and your heavy full-keeler is
| slower than the average Westsail 32 by a significant amount.

Your ability to be in error is only surpassed by your inability to relate to
any vessel other than your own. It's a classic indicator of limited exposure
to a wide variety of sailboats.

CM

On the contrary. It is indicative of the fact that I have sailed in
company with many a cruising boat and it turned out I am
faster than all but a few. This is a result of my being a better
sailor and having my boat maximized for efficiency and speed.

I know the value of such things as a clean, smooth and faired
bottom. I know the necessity of an efficient, balanced spade
rudder and fin keel. I know how to trim the hull by proper weight
placement for maximum speed through the water. I know what
sail to bend on under a variety of conditions. I know how to
trim sails for maximum efficiency. I realize that a boat is slowed
down terribly by dragging a fixed prop in an aperture which is
cut into a high-wetted surface full keel. I know all about tip
vortex action on sails and how they produce unacceptable
drag. I know how to minimize said little tornadoes. I realize
the stupidity of hanging anchors on long bowsprits.

Your boat doesn't have a chance against mine until and unless
you have enough wind to reach your hull speed (probably about
twenty knots with all the drag you have) which is the only thing
about your boat that betters mine and even this only betters
mine by less than half a knot.


"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message ...

"Simple Simon" wrote in message

| I can beat a Westsail 32 any day and your heavy full-keeler is
| slower than the average Westsail 32 by a significant amount.

Your ability to be in error is only surpassed by your inability to relate to
any vessel other than your own. It's a classic indicator of limited exposure
to a wide variety of sailboats.

CM

Neal, what is the average speed you make when passaging making?


RB

Average speed on a trip across the Gulf of Mexico in a
broad reach during a norther from Panama City sea buoy
to Egmont Key sea buoy (Tampa Bay) was 7.3 knots
average speed. This is fact and recorded my my log
which is a legal document. There is perhaps a 1/2 knot
favorable current in the Gulf in this direction.


"CANDChelp" wrote in message ...
Neal, what is the average speed you make when passaging making?


RB

Average speed on a trip across the Gulf of Mexico in a
broad reach during a norther from Panama City sea buoy
to Egmont Key sea buoy (Tampa Bay) was 7.3 knots
average speed. This is fact and recorded my my log
which is a legal document. There is perhaps a 1/2 knot
favorable current in the Gulf in this direction.

Jeff, what is the average speed made by your multi hull when passaging making.

RB

My average speed, for general conditions, is roughly 7 knots. That's what I base my
passage planning on. However, its not uncommon to do 9 or 10 if the wind is pushing 20.
I've been over 11 with plain sail without help from waves. (Surfing we've been to 13.5)
On my recent trip to Salem we were doing 5.5 to 7 knots in a 10 to 12 knot breeze (as
entered in my log, a legal document). About the same going to P'town. I generally figure
I'm a knot or two fast then monohulls my size.

The Norther's that Neal talks about are a standard wind that covers the FL area though the
winter. Its often about 20-25 knots, and can setup for 2 or 3 weeks without a break.
Since you can't cross the Gulf Stream in a Norther, hundreds of boats wait in on the East
Coast of FL for a window.

Neal might be able to beam reach in a Norther at 6.8 through the water, but its pushing it
a bit. With full sail, in 26 knots, his sail generates 22 hp, which puts him under 300
pounds per hp - enough to push through hull speed somewhat. Of course, although my
predicted speed would be 10+ knots, I'm not constrained by hull speed, so I'd be doing
more, with reefed sails.


"CANDChelp" wrote in message
...
Average speed on a trip across the Gulf of Mexico in a
broad reach during a norther from Panama City sea buoy
to Egmont Key sea buoy (Tampa Bay) was 7.3 knots
average speed. This is fact and recorded my my log
which is a legal document. There is perhaps a 1/2 knot
favorable current in the Gulf in this direction.

Jeff, what is the average speed made by your multi hull when passaging making.

RB

What do you mean you cannot cross the Gulf Stream
in a Norther?

I have crossed to the Bahamas in a Norther and
crossed from the Bahamas to Florida in a Norther.
It's a myth that it cannot be done. Actually, it's not
all that bad in 20-25 knots of wind. Sure the seas
heap up a little steeper in a Norther but they are
manageable.

Small craft advisory does not apply to a well-found
covered-deck sailboat. It's only for open boats and
primarily for open motor boats.

I tuck one reef in the main and use the 75% jib
and go along at hull speed. The ride is not bad because
there are mostly big beam rollers with a few greybeards
now and then that might board the cockpit with a few
buckets of water now and then.

The good news is the northerly current of the Stream
seems to slow down so one does not have to fight it as
one must when sailing in southerly winds.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ...
My average speed, for general conditions, is roughly 7 knots. That's what I base my
passage planning on. However, its not uncommon to do 9 or 10 if the wind is pushing 20.
I've been over 11 with plain sail without help from waves. (Surfing we've been to 13.5)
On my recent trip to Salem we were doing 5.5 to 7 knots in a 10 to 12 knot breeze (as
entered in my log, a legal document). About the same going to P'town. I generally figure
I'm a knot or two fast then monohulls my size.

The Norther's that Neal talks about are a standard wind that covers the FL area though the
winter. Its often about 20-25 knots, and can setup for 2 or 3 weeks without a break.
Since you can't cross the Gulf Stream in a Norther, hundreds of boats wait in on the East
Coast of FL for a window.

Neal might be able to beam reach in a Norther at 6.8 through the water, but its pushing it
a bit. With full sail, in 26 knots, his sail generates 22 hp, which puts him under 300
pounds per hp - enough to push through hull speed somewhat. Of course, although my
predicted speed would be 10+ knots, I'm not constrained by hull speed, so I'd be doing
more, with reefed sails.


"CANDChelp" wrote in message
...
Average speed on a trip across the Gulf of Mexico in a
broad reach during a norther from Panama City sea buoy
to Egmont Key sea buoy (Tampa Bay) was 7.3 knots
average speed. This is fact and recorded my my log
which is a legal document. There is perhaps a 1/2 knot
favorable current in the Gulf in this direction.

Jeff, what is the average speed made by your multi hull when passaging making.

RB

Neals average speed claim, well above is theoretical hull speed seems
questionable. Jeff's speed as quoted appears understated.
There is no mistaking the specs on the Coronado. Under a steady hand in
aggresive conditions, she remains a slow cruiser. Her ratings reflect that.
Compare her specs to an older Catalina 27 TR and she's barely got a chance.
Against my C&C 32...bwaahahaa! I could sail with the main down and he wouldn't
have a chance.
Jeff's big multi? C'mon neal. You're just being foolish. That thing may be
faster on the back of a truck.

RB

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
| On the contrary. It is indicative of the fact that I have sailed in
| company with many a cruising boat and it turned out I am
| faster than all but a few. This is a result of my being a better
| sailor and having my boat maximized for efficiency and speed.
|
| I know the value of such things as a clean, smooth and faired
| bottom. I know the necessity of an efficient, balanced spade
| rudder and fin keel. I know how to trim the hull by proper weight
| placement for maximum speed through the water. I know what
| sail to bend on under a variety of conditions. I know how to
| trim sails for maximum efficiency.

.... and "I know" that you know the desperation of owning a small vessel and
being outmatched in every way by a better built, well founded, superior
vessel like my Nordica 30


I realize that a boat is slowed
| down terribly by dragging a fixed prop in an aperture which is
| cut into a high-wetted surface full keel. I know all about tip
| vortex action on sails and how they produce unacceptable
| drag. I know how to minimize said little tornadoes. I realize
| the stupidity of hanging anchors on long bowsprits.

The trepidation and angst you dwell upon is due entirely to your inability
to comprehend the sheer power afforded by a true blue water vessel... as
opposed to the coastal biscuit you are familiar with. I laugh at your
discussion of weight distribution.... my vessel can carry the weight of
your flimsy banana boat and still afford room for pallets of beer while
handily beating any comparable vessel in a race.


|
| Your boat doesn't have a chance against mine until and unless
| you have enough wind to reach your hull speed (probably about
| twenty knots with all the drag you have) which is the only thing
| about your boat that betters mine and even this only betters
| mine by less than half a knot.

Everything about my boat is better than yours... it's a fact you will one
day learn.

CM
|