On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 20:27:29 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote this crap:

I don't have to back it but it's better to back it than to
let it flap its way around which is the standard way to
tack and is the stupid thing to do in my experienced
sailing career.

I will challenge anybody here to a tacking duel.
I regularly tack up the channel to the harbor and its
width is less twice the length of my boat.

Let me see some of your losers do that, please.

I use the motor. (Too much traffic in my harbor.)




Ave Imperator Bush!
Bush Was Right! Four More Beers!

Oh Man.... that says it all......


CM

"Horvath" wrote in message

| I use the motor. (since I always have it on anyway.)
|
|
|
|
| Ave Imperator Bush!
| Bush Was Right! Four More Beers!

By the time I magnify the chart enough to see anything it requires too much
scrolling to find the legend. I though you would be kind enough to tell me
since you have local knowlege.


"Oz1" wrote in message ...

Cappy, There IS a legend!

On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:34:12 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote:

Gunnamatta Bay? It looks like it has a rather narrow channel.
What about it? I cannot tell how far apart the channel markers
are. I do so some 2s as depth. Is that meters of feet?


"Oz1" wrote in message ...
.

Cappy,
go here
http://www.waterways.nsw.gov.au/docs/porthack_front.pdf
Waters I sail often.
Look at the first bay on the northern shore of the river.
Prevailing breeze is NE and is bent and funnelled NNE to N by the
hills on the western shore





Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

And you motor up this 50 meter-wide channel, so what!


"Oz1" wrote in message ...

Get a bigger monitor!
Yes, metres and very narrow, rocky to the west, steeply shallowing
sand to the east.

On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:04:37 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote:

By the time I magnify the chart enough to see anything it requires too much
scrolling to find the legend. I though you would be kind enough to tell me
since you have local knowlege.


"Oz1" wrote in message ...

Cappy, There IS a legend!

On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:34:12 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote:

Gunnamatta Bay? It looks like it has a rather narrow channel.
What about it? I cannot tell how far apart the channel markers
are. I do so some 2s as depth. Is that meters of feet?


"Oz1" wrote in message ...
.

Cappy,
go here
http://www.waterways.nsw.gov.au/docs/porthack_front.pdf
Waters I sail often.
Look at the first bay on the northern shore of the river.
Prevailing breeze is NE and is bent and funnelled NNE to N by the
hills on the western shore





Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.




Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
Why would bearing off without easing the main increase the speed?

The jenny is not yet sheeted in hard, and generates the power required to
get the boat moving again.

On my boat, the main isn't eased because it isn't worth it for the 3-5
seconds that we are talking about. However, as the main hasn't yet been
trimmed on the new course, the travellor will be on the leeward side of the
boat.

This is only important when the water is a bit rough. If the water is flat,
then we get the boat straight onto its new course. If the sail trimmer did
his work well, then we might not even need to winch in the sheet.



I think it would
increase the heel, the leeway, and start the keel stalling. You'll be
starting the tack
heeled more and have 10 degrees further to turn. All in all, it seems
like a pretty silly
thing to do.



It works well for me. In rough water, the slamming can almost stop the boat
after a tack.



Regards


Donal
--








Its a lot like the way young girls drive a car: veering to the right
before a left turn.



"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...



"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
sailed with another fellow today, who suggested that during the tack,
that i
not pull the head sail sheet in too soon, but leave the sail full as
the
boat swings around, and then only after establishing new heading, trim
the
sail.

That guy also does not know what he's doing. The best way to tack
quickly, surely and without sailing past 90 degrees is:

1) Sail as close-hauled as your boat can handle and still make good
headway

2) Both main and jib should have windward telltales lifting and leeward
telltales
streaming straight back.

3) Leaving both sails trimmed in tight, head off about ten degrees and
increase
your boat speed.

4) Then head up in a graceful but purposeful curve so as to not rub off
too much
speed. Don't stall the rudder.

5) Watch the jib. When the jib backs and comes over on the opposite side
so it is aback let fly the windward sheet and haul in on the
leeward sheet.
If you do this turn with the proper speed and dispatch and you are
sharp with
handling the jib sheets your mainsail will actually "POP" to the
other
side making a popping sound.

6) You should now be sailing on the other tack and still have good
speed
and have only turned through about 90 degrees from your original
closed-hauled course.

Good! I'm happy to hear somebody else is up to a sailing
challenge and doesn't simply resort to using the motor like
Horvath.


"Oz1" wrote in message ...
Huh?
No motor! and it's much less than 50 metres, closer to 25 then there
are the jetties!
Oh and the boat is longer than the Coronado.

On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:31:26 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote:

And you motor up this 50 meter-wide channel, so what!



"Oz1" wrote in message ...

Get a bigger monitor!
Yes, metres and very narrow, rocky to the west, steeply shallowing
sand to the east.

On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 08:04:37 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote:

By the time I magnify the chart enough to see anything it requires too much
scrolling to find the legend. I though you would be kind enough to tell me
since you have local knowlege.


"Oz1" wrote in message ...

Cappy, There IS a legend!

On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 07:34:12 -0400, "Simple Simon"
wrote:

Gunnamatta Bay? It looks like it has a rather narrow channel.
What about it? I cannot tell how far apart the channel markers
are. I do so some 2s as depth. Is that meters of feet?


"Oz1" wrote in message ...
.

Cappy,
go here
http://www.waterways.nsw.gov.au/docs/porthack_front.pdf
Waters I sail often.
Look at the first bay on the northern shore of the river.
Prevailing breeze is NE and is bent and funnelled NNE to N by the
hills on the western shore





Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.




Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.




Oz1...of the 3 twins.
I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

I agree with what you say- but Neal was talking about bearing off BEFORE tacking to gain
speed:

"3) Leaving both sails trimmed in tight, head off about ten degrees and increase your boat
speed."

In this case the boat is presumably already at best VMG speed; bearing off for a few
seconds would only slightly increase speed but would otherwise be counterproductive. This
might actually be of some value in certain boats (if the sails were handled properly) but
not in a Com-Pac 19.

Footing off after the tack to regain momentum is quite appropriate for many boats,
especially light air/choppy water situations.

-jeff


"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
Why would bearing off without easing the main increase the speed?

The jenny is not yet sheeted in hard, and generates the power required to
get the boat moving again.

On my boat, the main isn't eased because it isn't worth it for the 3-5
seconds that we are talking about. However, as the main hasn't yet been
trimmed on the new course, the travellor will be on the leeward side of the
boat.

This is only important when the water is a bit rough. If the water is flat,
then we get the boat straight onto its new course. If the sail trimmer did
his work well, then we might not even need to winch in the sheet.



I think it would
increase the heel, the leeway, and start the keel stalling. You'll be
starting the tack
heeled more and have 10 degrees further to turn. All in all, it seems
like a pretty silly
thing to do.



It works well for me. In rough water, the slamming can almost stop the boat
after a tack.



Regards


Donal
--








Its a lot like the way young girls drive a car: veering to the right
before a left turn.



"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...



"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
sailed with another fellow today, who suggested that during the tack,
that i
not pull the head sail sheet in too soon, but leave the sail full as
the
boat swings around, and then only after establishing new heading, trim
the
sail.

That guy also does not know what he's doing. The best way to tack
quickly, surely and without sailing past 90 degrees is:

1) Sail as close-hauled as your boat can handle and still make good
headway

2) Both main and jib should have windward telltales lifting and leeward
telltales
streaming straight back.

3) Leaving both sails trimmed in tight, head off about ten degrees and
increase
your boat speed.

4) Then head up in a graceful but purposeful curve so as to not rub off
too much
speed. Don't stall the rudder.

5) Watch the jib. When the jib backs and comes over on the opposite side
so it is aback let fly the windward sheet and haul in on the
leeward sheet.
If you do this turn with the proper speed and dispatch and you are
sharp with
handling the jib sheets your mainsail will actually "POP" to the
other
side making a popping sound.

6) You should now be sailing on the other tack and still have good
speed
and have only turned through about 90 degrees from your original
closed-hauled course.

You are wrong as usual. When sailing as close to the wind as
possible it meets the definition of pinching. Pinching is not
the way to proceed at the best speed to weather.Therefore, to gain
some boat speed to complete the tack it is only reasonable
to bear off about ten degrees (which isn't a whole lot, after all).

Stick to your motorboats.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ...
I agree with what you say- but Neal was talking about bearing off BEFORE tacking to gain
speed:

"3) Leaving both sails trimmed in tight, head off about ten degrees and increase your boat
speed."

In this case the boat is presumably already at best VMG speed; bearing off for a few
seconds would only slightly increase speed but would otherwise be counterproductive. This
might actually be of some value in certain boats (if the sails were handled properly) but
not in a Com-Pac 19.

Footing off after the tack to regain momentum is quite appropriate for many boats,
especially light air/choppy water situations.

-jeff


"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
Why would bearing off without easing the main increase the speed?

The jenny is not yet sheeted in hard, and generates the power required to
get the boat moving again.

On my boat, the main isn't eased because it isn't worth it for the 3-5
seconds that we are talking about. However, as the main hasn't yet been
trimmed on the new course, the travellor will be on the leeward side of the
boat.

This is only important when the water is a bit rough. If the water is flat,
then we get the boat straight onto its new course. If the sail trimmer did
his work well, then we might not even need to winch in the sheet.



I think it would
increase the heel, the leeway, and start the keel stalling. You'll be
starting the tack
heeled more and have 10 degrees further to turn. All in all, it seems
like a pretty silly
thing to do.



It works well for me. In rough water, the slamming can almost stop the boat
after a tack.



Regards


Donal
--








Its a lot like the way young girls drive a car: veering to the right
before a left turn.



"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...



"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
sailed with another fellow today, who suggested that during the tack,
that i
not pull the head sail sheet in too soon, but leave the sail full as
the
boat swings around, and then only after establishing new heading, trim
the
sail.

That guy also does not know what he's doing. The best way to tack
quickly, surely and without sailing past 90 degrees is:

1) Sail as close-hauled as your boat can handle and still make good
headway

2) Both main and jib should have windward telltales lifting and leeward
telltales
streaming straight back.

3) Leaving both sails trimmed in tight, head off about ten degrees and
increase
your boat speed.

4) Then head up in a graceful but purposeful curve so as to not rub off
too much
speed. Don't stall the rudder.

5) Watch the jib. When the jib backs and comes over on the opposite side
so it is aback let fly the windward sheet and haul in on the
leeward sheet.
If you do this turn with the proper speed and dispatch and you are
sharp with
handling the jib sheets your mainsail will actually "POP" to the
other
side making a popping sound.

6) You should now be sailing on the other tack and still have good
speed
and have only turned through about 90 degrees from your original
closed-hauled course.

Once again we've entered "The Neal Zone" where the crapton twists and turns to cover up
his obvious blunder. Only 16 year old girls named Donna driving their boyfriend's Camaro
veer to the right before turning left. Oh, I forgot, it was Donna that taught Neal how to
sail!

Sorry Neal, the poster never said he was "sailing as close to the wind as possible" or
pinching. He merely said he was close hauled. Are you claiming that you always pinch when
sailing upwind?

-J

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...
You are wrong as usual. When sailing as close to the wind as
possible it meets the definition of pinching. Pinching is not
the way to proceed at the best speed to weather.Therefore, to gain
some boat speed to complete the tack it is only reasonable
to bear off about ten degrees (which isn't a whole lot, after all).

Stick to your motorboats.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
I agree with what you say- but Neal was talking about bearing off BEFORE tacking to
gain
speed:

"3) Leaving both sails trimmed in tight, head off about ten degrees and increase your
boat
speed."

In this case the boat is presumably already at best VMG speed; bearing off for a few
seconds would only slightly increase speed but would otherwise be counterproductive.
This
might actually be of some value in certain boats (if the sails were handled properly)
but
not in a Com-Pac 19.

Footing off after the tack to regain momentum is quite appropriate for many boats,
especially light air/choppy water situations.

-jeff


"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
Why would bearing off without easing the main increase the speed?

The jenny is not yet sheeted in hard, and generates the power required to
get the boat moving again.

On my boat, the main isn't eased because it isn't worth it for the 3-5
seconds that we are talking about. However, as the main hasn't yet been
trimmed on the new course, the travellor will be on the leeward side of the
boat.

This is only important when the water is a bit rough. If the water is flat,
then we get the boat straight onto its new course. If the sail trimmer did
his work well, then we might not even need to winch in the sheet.



I think it would
increase the heel, the leeway, and start the keel stalling. You'll be
starting the tack
heeled more and have 10 degrees further to turn. All in all, it seems
like a pretty silly
thing to do.



It works well for me. In rough water, the slamming can almost stop the boat
after a tack.



Regards


Donal
--








Its a lot like the way young girls drive a car: veering to the right
before a left turn.



"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...



"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
sailed with another fellow today, who suggested that during the tack,
that i
not pull the head sail sheet in too soon, but leave the sail full as
the
boat swings around, and then only after establishing new heading, trim
the
sail.

That guy also does not know what he's doing. The best way to tack
quickly, surely and without sailing past 90 degrees is:

1) Sail as close-hauled as your boat can handle and still make good
headway

2) Both main and jib should have windward telltales lifting and leeward
telltales
streaming straight back.

3) Leaving both sails trimmed in tight, head off about ten degrees and
increase
your boat speed.

4) Then head up in a graceful but purposeful curve so as to not rub off
too much
speed. Don't stall the rudder.

5) Watch the jib. When the jib backs and comes over on the opposite side
so it is aback let fly the windward sheet and haul in on the
leeward sheet.
If you do this turn with the proper speed and dispatch and you are
sharp with
handling the jib sheets your mainsail will actually "POP" to the
other
side making a popping sound.

6) You should now be sailing on the other tack and still have good
speed
and have only turned through about 90 degrees from your original
closed-hauled course.

"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
I agree with what you say- but Neal was talking about bearing off BEFORE
tacking to gain
speed:


Ahhh. OK. I must read things properly in future!



Regards



Donal
--