|
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
Winning on corrected time? You like seconds?
Cheers MC Capt. Mooron wrote: They don't get lost... they win on corrected time... what can I say.. I've got a FULL Keel! CM "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... | Now I've told you, a strainer will not stop big strong sperm. However in | your case, you don't have to worry as they have to stop for a drink half | way and get lost! | | Cheers MC | | Capt. Mooron wrote: | Not when she's wearing her pantyhose...... | | CM | | "The_navigator©" wrote in message | ... | | I know you know all about friction pushing things up. Have you broken | | the 5" barrier yet? | | | | Cheers MC | | | | Capt. Mooron wrote: | | Friction!!!! ..... I saw it on "The Ripping Friends" | | | | CM | | | | "The_navigator©" wrote in message | | ... | | | So 'duuuuuhhhhhhh' how is this 'pushing up' force produced? | | | | | | Cheers MC | | | | | | Scout wrote: | | | duuuuuhhhhhhh, force pushing up = force pushing down? | | | Scout | | | | | | | | | From: "The_navigator©" wrote: | | | OK fell off a wall. Now why doesn't it keep falling? | | | Cheers MC | | | | | | | | | | | | |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:18:02 +1200, The_navigator© wrote:
Yes that's true. Now what is the linear velocity of an object moving in a circle? Not familar with the term "linear velocity". Do you mean speed, or a particular component of velocity, or what? S/V Cat's Meow http://www.catsmeow.org |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:48:29 +1200, The_navigator© wrote:
how is this 'pushing up' force produced? Wonderbra, typically. S/V Cat's Meow http://www.catsmeow.org |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
Don't matter who gets there first... it's who gets to walk to the poduim
that counts. CM "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... | Winning on corrected time? You like seconds? | | Cheers MC | | Capt. Mooron wrote: | They don't get lost... they win on corrected time... what can I say.. I've | got a FULL Keel! | | CM | | "The_navigator©" wrote in message | ... | | Now I've told you, a strainer will not stop big strong sperm. However in | | your case, you don't have to worry as they have to stop for a drink half | | way and get lost! | | | | Cheers MC | | | | Capt. Mooron wrote: | | Not when she's wearing her pantyhose...... | | | | CM | | | | "The_navigator©" wrote in message | | ... | | | I know you know all about friction pushing things up. Have you broken | | | the 5" barrier yet? | | | | | | Cheers MC | | | | | | Capt. Mooron wrote: | | | Friction!!!! ..... I saw it on "The Ripping Friends" | | | | | | CM | | | | | | "The_navigator©" wrote in message | | | ... | | | | So 'duuuuuhhhhhhh' how is this 'pushing up' force produced? | | | | | | | | Cheers MC | | | | | | | | Scout wrote: | | | | duuuuuhhhhhhh, force pushing up = force pushing down? | | | | Scout | | | | | | | | | | | | From: "The_navigator©" wrote: | | | | OK fell off a wall. Now why doesn't it keep falling? | | | | Cheers MC | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
I have a better question MC, how is it that I can't see your response to me
directly, but only by reading CMs response. Note the sequence below, I never knew you wrote back to me until he responded to you. Strange. In another post, I was the OP and asked if anyone is going to the Sailboat show in Annapolis. I see responses to my question, but I've never been able to see my own post. See ya in a few days. Scout. "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... I know you know all about friction pushing things up. Have you broken the 5" barrier yet? Cheers MC Capt. Mooron wrote: Friction!!!! ..... I saw it on "The Ripping Friends" CM "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... | So 'duuuuuhhhhhhh' how is this 'pushing up' force produced? | | Cheers MC | | Scout wrote: | duuuuuhhhhhhh, force pushing up = force pushing down? | Scout | | | From: "The_navigator©" wrote: | OK fell off a wall. Now why doesn't it keep falling? | Cheers MC | |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
Correct. Can you iumagine the amount of energy released if Booby takes
his off? Cheers MC Gerard Weatherby wrote: On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 12:48:29 +1200, The_navigator© wrote: how is this 'pushing up' force produced? Wonderbra, typically. S/V Cat's Meow http://www.catsmeow.org |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:35:33 +1200, The_navigator© wrote:
I was trying to emphasize the difference between angular velocity and the linear one... The force is that whaich keeps it moving in a circle... gravity in the case of a 10lb rock on the ground I didn't say the rock wasn't at the North or South pole. S/V Cat's Meow http://www.catsmeow.org |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 10:53:42 +1200, The_navigator© wrote:
Well if you are being 'tricky' then how about the planet's orbit? Still waiting for you to tell me about the energy change the rock is undergoing. S/V Cat's Meow http://www.catsmeow.org |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:51:55 +1200, The_navigator© wrote:
Sigh. When it stopped moving the ground absorbed energy... Yes, but it's still applying force to the ground after it stopped moving right? How is it changing energy? S/V Cat's Meow http://www.catsmeow.org |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
But it's not accelerating -or is it?
Cheers MC Gerard Weatherby wrote: On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 15:51:55 +1200, The_navigator© wrote: Sigh. When it stopped moving the ground absorbed energy... Yes, but it's still applying force to the ground after it stopped moving right? How is it changing energy? S/V Cat's Meow http://www.catsmeow.org |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
|
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:34:39 +1200, The_navigator© wrote:
But it's not accelerating -or is it? Technically, that depends on your reference frame. Let's consider the earth stationary and the rock stationary. Therefore it is not accelerating. Does F=ma still apply? S/V Cat's Meow http://www.catsmeow.org |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
If the rock was truly stationary, there was no Force. Unless we want to get into
immovable objects and unstoppable forces. "Gerard Weatherby" wrote in message ... On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:34:39 +1200, The_navigator© wrote: But it's not accelerating -or is it? Technically, that depends on your reference frame. Let's consider the earth stationary and the rock stationary. Therefore it is not accelerating. Does F=ma still apply? S/V Cat's Meow http://www.catsmeow.org |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
Nav,
I do believe, g linear velocity in a circle is called RPM's Thanks for taking a good post and destroying it with static OT |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
"Simple Simon" wrote in message ...
Centrifugal force does not exist in any system unless there is a physical attachment. Twirl a weight on a line and you will feel what is called centrifugal force. Without the line, centrifugal force does not exist. There is no line when air molecules progress around the curved shape of a sail. There is no centrifugal force either. If the road turn left and your car can´t follow the curve, what do you call the force acting on the car and what caused the accident? You need to base your arguments more on common sense than isolated quotes and links from professorial types who never poke their heads out from behind books others have written who also have no first-hand knowledge. There are so many physical correct websites on the net so you could learn more if you were interested: A Physical Description of Flight © http://www.aa.washington.edu/faculty/eberhardt/lift.htm Bernoulli Versus Newton http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/bernnew.html What is Ground Effect? http://home.mira.net/~radacorp/ground_effect.html Operational use of angle of attack (AOA) on modern commercial jet airplanes http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aer...12/attack.html Weltner Lift http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/~weltner/ http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/~welt...ht/PHYSIC4.htm Weltner Bernoulli http://www.informatik.uni-frankfurt..../MIS/mis6.html Incorrect theory number three http://www.grc.nasa.gov/Other_Groups...ne/wrong3.html Lift from flow turning http://www.lerc.nasa.gov/www/K-12/airplane/right2.html Jef Raskin - Coanda Effect: Understanding Why Wings Work http://www.jefraskin.com/forjef/jefw...da_effect.html F18 Soundbarrier and highspeed pass http://www.algonet.se/~newborg/ Beaty Gif pictures smokepuls plus SAAB 2000 http://www.amasci.com/wing/airgif2.html Prof. Colombinis photogallery http://www.diam.unige.it/~irro/gallery.html Flow around an airfoil http://www.diam.unige.it/~irro/profilo_e.html ScienceWeb - Aerodynamics http://www.scienceweb.org/movies/aero.htm Lift from spinning balls This website gives a lot of references all back to Newton/Robbins! The Magnus Effect http://www.geocities.com/k_achutarao...ew_magnus.html The Science of Swing, maintained by James Foster http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/GG/STUDE...ter/swing.html Normal Swing http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/GG/STUDE...er/normal.html Reversed Magnus effect explained http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/GG/STUDE...r/reverse.html Wrong lift explanations Smithsonian http://www.nasm.edu/galleries/gal109/NEWHTF/HTF510.HTM False Bernoulli explanations How things fly, an interactive gallery. Bernoulli Brain-Teasers. Activities you can do at home http://www.nasm.edu/galleries/gal109...XT/TEASERS.HTM US AirForce Museum http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/zone/ff3.htm Dr. John S. Denker online aerodynamic book. Wrong Lift explanation explained by "Circulation flow 'creating' the Velocity Field" http://www.monmouth.com/~jsd/fly/how/htm/ http://www.monmouth.com/~jsd/fly/how/htm/airfoils.html Jan-Olov Newborg |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
"Jan-Olov Newborg" wrote in message om...
"Simple Simon" wrote in message ... Centrifugal force does not exist in any system unless there is a physical attachment. Twirl a weight on a line and you will feel what is called centrifugal force. Without the line, centrifugal force does not exist. There is no line when air molecules progress around the curved shape of a sail. There is no centrifugal force either. If the road turn left and your car can´t follow the curve, what do you call the force acting on the car and what caused the accident? There is centrifugal force felt as long as the car's tires attach it to the road so the force is felt. As soon as the car leaves the road and there is no traction from the tires the car goes in a straight line direction at a tangent from the center of the curve. At the moment the traction breaks from the road/tires there no longer is any centrifugal force. In the case of sails, there is nothing attaching the wind to the sails so there is no centrifugal force. There are so many physical correct websites on the net so you could learn more if you were interested: My IQ is close to 150. What can I learn from geeks who cut and paste information from other sources and do no independent study of their own. I'm not talking about you, rather I'm talking about the professorial types who simply compile research and do none of their own. These are not authorities in my eyes. |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
You tell me!
Cheers MC Gerard Weatherby wrote: On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:34:39 +1200, The_navigator© wrote: But it's not accelerating -or is it? Technically, that depends on your reference frame. Let's consider the earth stationary and the rock stationary. Therefore it is not accelerating. Does F=ma still apply? S/V Cat's Meow http://www.catsmeow.org |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
"The_navigator©" wrote in message ... You tell me! Cheers MC Gerard Weatherby wrote: On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:34:39 +1200, The_navigator© wrote: But it's not accelerating -or is it? Technically, that depends on your reference frame. Let's consider the earth stationary and the rock stationary. Therefore it is not accelerating. Does F=ma still apply? S/V Cat's Meow http://www.catsmeow.org |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
Pulls? Wot with invisible strings? Bwhahhahahahahha. You really should
give this up as you don't even begin to understand the Coanda effect! Cheers MC Jan-Olov Newborg wrote: The local lower pressure pulls in air behind at higher pressure and the airflow velocity increases. |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
Oh No! Another blank post - I'm really losing it!
F=ma ALWAYS applies. I was taught in physics that if you're totally clueless on a question you can always get partial credit for writing F=ma (or F=dp/dt if you really need another point) "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... You tell me! Cheers MC Gerard Weatherby wrote: On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:34:39 +1200, The_navigator© wrote: But it's not accelerating -or is it? Technically, that depends on your reference frame. Let's consider the earth stationary and the rock stationary. Therefore it is not accelerating. Does F=ma still apply? S/V Cat's Meow http://www.catsmeow.org |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:37:55 +1200, The_navigator© wrote:
Of course it still applies. You tell me! Technically, that depends on your reference frame. Let's consider the earth stationary and the rock stationary. Therefore it is not accelerating. Does F=ma still apply? S/V Cat's Meow http://www.catsmeow.org |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:19:23 -0400, "Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom
wrote: f the rock was truly stationary, there was no Force. Unless we want to get into immovable objects and unstoppable forces. So gravity stopped working? S/V Cat's Meow http://www.catsmeow.org |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
Yes that aspect always frustrated me. But I think Newton's third law covers it: the force
of the pull is countered by the force of the object pushing back. No net force, no acceleration. To actually get acceleration, you have to consider the whole system. "Gerard Weatherby" wrote in message ... On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:19:23 -0400, "Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote: f the rock was truly stationary, there was no Force. Unless we want to get into immovable objects and unstoppable forces. So gravity stopped working? S/V Cat's Meow http://www.catsmeow.org |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
So if a=0 f=0?
Cheers MC Gerard Weatherby wrote: On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:37:55 +1200, The_navigator© wrote: Of course it still applies. You tell me! Technically, that depends on your reference frame. Let's consider the earth stationary and the rock stationary. Therefore it is not accelerating. Does F=ma still apply? S/V Cat's Meow http://www.catsmeow.org |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
Hey! Leave DP and DT out of it (although you may have them mounted
correctly) ;-) Cheers MC Jeff Morris wrote: Oh No! Another blank post - I'm really losing it! F=ma ALWAYS applies. I was taught in physics that if you're totally clueless on a question you can always get partial credit for writing F=ma (or F=dp/dt if you really need another point) "The_navigator©" wrote in message ... You tell me! Cheers MC Gerard Weatherby wrote: On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 11:34:39 +1200, The_navigator© wrote: But it's not accelerating -or is it? Technically, that depends on your reference frame. Let's consider the earth stationary and the rock stationary. Therefore it is not accelerating. Does F=ma still apply? S/V Cat's Meow http://www.catsmeow.org |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:20:12 +1200, The_navigator© wrote:
So if a=0 f=0? Depends, do you still believe "F=ma cannot be correct unless the object applying/experiencing F also changes energy content!" Cheers MC Gerard Weatherby wrote: On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:37:55 +1200, The_navigator© wrote: Of course it still applies. You tell me! Technically, that depends on your reference frame. Let's consider the earth stationary and the rock stationary. Therefore it is not accelerating. Does F=ma still apply? S/V Cat's Meow http://www.catsmeow.org S/V Cat's Meow http://www.catsmeow.org |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
Another blank post - I'm really losing it!
As I said earlier. RB |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
Yes, unless the point of application of the force does not move with the
object there is no acceleration. If the point moves with force applied enegy content has changed. Cheers MC Gerard Weatherby wrote: On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 14:20:12 +1200, The_navigator© wrote: So if a=0 f=0? Depends, do you still believe "F=ma cannot be correct unless the object applying/experiencing F also changes energy content!" Cheers MC Gerard Weatherby wrote: On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 10:37:55 +1200, The_navigator© wrote: Of course it still applies. You tell me! Technically, that depends on your reference frame. Let's consider the earth stationary and the rock stationary. Therefore it is not accelerating. Does F=ma still apply? S/V Cat's Meow http://www.catsmeow.org S/V Cat's Meow http://www.catsmeow.org |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
The Bernoulli Principle applies to sails and is the
principal contributor to moving the hull through the water, In the case of aircraft jet propulsion.. the jet engines provide the main forward thrust with the Bernoulli Principle making a secondary contribution to lift in the countour contour of the wings. -- Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and the sea! Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9" North. _!_ Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha! ___o_(_)_o___ q |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
"Jan-Olov Newborg" wrote in message High airflow velocity can never create low pressure! Thats only a mathematical manipulation! Tell that to all the tornado victims who have seen the structure they were in explode from greater pressure inside than outside because of winds up to 200mph or greater creating sever low pressure. You are clueless, man. Get outside once in a while and observe things. Sitting at your desk and reading what professorial types have written is not serving you well at all. |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
Jan,
Your reply, once again, is loaded with errors and show very little depth of understand of the very things you are discussing. You say velocity cannot create low pressure. WRONG!! Just think of a painter's spray gun. The paint is introduced into the air stream by a low pressure created by the velocity of the air thru a venturi. A hand pumped bug sprayer creates a low pressure by velocity over the tip positioned in that high velocity steam. This is something you have to come to terms with understand the workings of a sail I asked you "What is the Ground effect have to do with a sail" you elected to not answer that but you go off half cocked about wings, sails, rudders, curved roofs etc all working the same. I AGAIN ASK YOU to explain how ground effect is of importance in the operation of a Sail? Even in your use of Newton's Law your understanding is WRONG! You say deflecting the air thus creating a force. Jan the air flow is the FORCE. The deflecting is the action, which creates the reaction. Your understanding of Newton's first law leaves at lot to be desired. Jan, you better read some of those web sites you are calling up on Search. Ole Thom |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
"Simple Simon" wrote in message ...
"Jan-Olov Newborg" wrote in message High airflow velocity can never create low pressure! Thats only a mathematical manipulation! Tell that to all the tornado victims who have seen the structure they were in explode from greater pressure inside than outside because of winds up to 200mph or greater creating sever low pressure. But Dear Simple Simon, do you not even understand how a tornado works? First you need a big CB, to get the updraft. When the the horisontal circulation starts, it´s centrifugal/centripetal forces causing the lower pressure to form. Of cause, the house explodes if an airstream at 200 mph gets turned around the house! There will be very big low pressure gradients around the house! That physics is very simple to understand even for Simple Simon, if he just forget Leonard Eulers 1 D equation for a perfect, physically non existing fluid, namely the so called "Bernoulli equation"! Have you ever felt that it is the speed of the car that gives you the power in the engine just as the "Bernoulli Effect" should give the sail a force? Jan-Olov Newborg |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
"Simple Simon" wrote:
"Jan-Olov Newborg" wrote in message High airflow velocity can never create low pressure! Thats only a mathematical manipulation! Tell that to all the tornado victims who have seen the structure they were in explode from greater pressure inside than outside because of winds up to 200mph or greater creating sever low pressure. You are clueless, man. Get outside once in a while and observe things. Sitting at your desk and reading what professorial types have written is not serving you well at all. Ouch! Neal, I think ya got him. As someone once said, "PhDs? I've been beating PhDs around the course for decades." |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
It seems to say that a spay gun can't work. Hhahahhahahaha. Remember I
said energy is ALWAYS conserved. Now can you explain why the air pressure is lower at the surface in the coanda effect without involking the 'MC' priciple? Hhahahahahaha Cheers MC Jan-Olov Newborg wrote: (Thom Stewart) wrote in message ... Jan, Your reply, once again, is loaded with errors and show very little depth of understand of the very things you are discussing. You say velocity cannot create low pressure. WRONG!! Just think of a painter's spray gun. The paint is introduced into the air stream by a low pressure created by the velocity of the air thru a venturi. A hand pumped bug sprayer creates a low pressure by velocity over the tip positioned in that high velocity steam. This is something you have to come to terms with understand the workings of a sail I asked you "What is the Ground effect have to do with a sail" you elected to not answer that but you go off half cocked about wings, sails, rudders, curved roofs etc all working the same. I AGAIN ASK YOU to explain how ground effect is of importance in the operation of a Sail? Even in your use of Newton's Law your understanding is WRONG! You say deflecting the air thus creating a force. Jan the air flow is the FORCE. The deflecting is the action, which creates the reaction. Your understanding of Newton's first law leaves at lot to be desired. Jan, you better read some of those web sites you are calling up on Search. Ole Thom The Windsock seen at every airport and your beloved "Venturi Pipe" ( The Venturi effect" is very often misunderstood as the so called "Bernoulli Effect"). It seems like The Bernoulli process always must take place inside a Venturi Pipe! If not there will no "Effect". The Ground Effect is just what physically happens in the Windsock and in the Convergent Entrance Part of the Venturi Pipe! The longer into the Venturi Pipe constriction we goes, the HIGHER TOTAL PRESSURE we get and the lower airflow speed we get! Since you think that a sail is some sort of half venturi pipe, you have the Pim explains some of the so called "Bernoulli Effect Experiments" physically correct! http://www.sailtheory.com/experiments.html Read all of PIMs exellent webpages! You don´t need physical Sail explanations than that! This webpage debunkes the false "Bernoulli Effect explanation" in the painter's spray gun: http://www.informatik.uni-frankfurt..../MIS/mis6.html Try to read and understand! Jan-Olov Newborg |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:02:10 +1200, The_navigator© wrote:
Remember I said energy is ALWAYS conserved You believe that, too? Boy, you really are weak on physics. S/V Cat's Meow http://www.catsmeow.org |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
Are you saying it isn't?
Cheers MC Gerard Weatherby wrote: On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:02:10 +1200, The_navigator© wrote: Remember I said energy is ALWAYS conserved You believe that, too? Boy, you really are weak on physics. S/V Cat's Meow http://www.catsmeow.org |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
Well I ain't conserving any energy... I'll tell you that!!!!
CM "The_navigator©" wrote in message | Are you saying it isn't? | | Gerard Weatherby wrote: | On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:02:10 +1200, The_navigator© | Remember I | said energy is ALWAYS conserved | | You believe that, too? Boy, you really are weak on physics. | |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
The one gram loss of mass you experience after shaking your fist for
half an hour might prove (for some) that mass and energy can be interconverted -except that the lack of gamma rays proves that it is a sterile issue. Cheers MC Capt. Mooron wrote: Well I ain't conserving any energy... I'll tell you that!!!! CM "The_navigator©" wrote in message | Are you saying it isn't? | | Gerard Weatherby wrote: | On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 13:02:10 +1200, The_navigator© | Remember I | said energy is ALWAYS conserved | | You believe that, too? Boy, you really are weak on physics. | |
how a sail works, who can help me explain?
Well, do adhesion/cohesion properties of a respective fluid play a role in
the Coanda effect? If so, are these "strings" not invisible? Scout "The_navigator©" wrote Pulls? Wot with invisible strings? |
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