"Charles Momsen" wrote in message
...

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...

"Charles Momsen" wrote in message
...

"Joe" wrote in message
...
On Dec 11, 12:00 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
"Charles Momsen" wrote in message

...

This graph:

http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/lin....html&edu=high

Shows the density of water as a function of depth. Water density
changes
from 1.025 gm/cm^3 to 1.026 gm/cm^3 in 250 feet. That's a change of
0.1%
in 250 ft. Since that portion of the curve is linear, one can
estimate
that water density would change .0004% over the diameter (tip to tip)
of
a 12 inch propeller. So is a .0004% change in water density (in the
vertical plane no less) going to walk a boat sideways? Don't think
so.

Think, Momsen, think! There are very large forces at work when a
propeller
is turning at speed. You are stuck on static in your thinking. Picture
it
this way. Let's say you were riding a bicycle at 1mph and you had a ten
mile
per hour headwind. You would experience an 11mph head wind. Now, if you
aren't a girly-man you should be able to sprint up to 35mph. You would
then
experience a 45mph headwind. Suddenly your inconsequential wind has
great
consequence.

It's the same way with a propeller and the lift vs.drag coefficient.
Even a
very small density difference results in a significant drag difference
between the top half of the prop and the bottom half of the prop. But
there
is another thing that has a greater effect than density causing density
to
be only part of the equation. Water density does not vary greatly due
to the
fact that it doesn't compress easily. What does change significantly
with
depth is water pressure (divers say 1 atmosphere for every 15 feet?)
The
more pressure = the more drag for the propeller. I hope this helps.

Wilbur Hubbard

Let me use examples you may understand Neal.

Ever mix paint in a 5 gallon bucket with a paint mixing propellor on a
drill?
Why is the propellor in the paint pulled off center?

A dairy has huge tanks to store milk. They keep the creme mixed in
the milk with propellors on long shafts.
They hang straight down , he shaft is vertical. When you turn them on
the long shafts bend some in the direction of wheel walk.
Are you saying that it is pressure difference when the prop is
horizional causing the walk?

When a propellor flys off an airplane they never go straight, they
spin off in the direction of walk.

Think path of least resistance to the face of the fluke

Hope this helps.

Joe

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Joe,

Thanks to your input, that of Wilbur and others I believe I have come up
with the most plausible explanation for propeller walk. This explanation
may even impress Blondie!

The cause of the prop walk is due to 2 effects, namely the Magnus Effect
and the Coanda Effect. They can be found he

http://lpmpjogja.diknas.go.id/kc/a/air/airplane.htm

The spinning prop creates a vortex of water that is moving relative to
water surrounding it, especially if the prop is angled down relative to
the water's surface.

Already a false assumption. The vortex, like that from a tip of an
airplane wing will angle upwards. Why? because water pressure lessens
towards the surface.


A right hand prop on a forward moving boat would create a downward
angling vortex that had higher relative velocity to the surrounding
moving water on the starboard side and lower on the port. Viewing the
vortex as a rotating cylinder moving through a fluid, the lift would be
generated to port, as is observed. The Coanda Effect would explain the
draggging and leakage of water laterally by the prop. I believe these
explanations are the simplest and consistent with all observed effects,
including paint stirrers in Joe's buckets.

I searched and could find no explanation of prop walk using the Magnus
or Coanda Effect. Mostly what I found was the same false pablam of water
density and other voodoo science mindlessly regurgitated by babbling
non-thinking parrots.

I resent these remarks. As I have shown density and pressure have
everything to do with prop walk.


It was only with the great minds combined here on ASA that such previous
unexplained hydrodynamic effects have come to full understanding for the
greater benefit of mankind. Yes, ASA is slowly rising from the dismal
swamp it had once become to shining paragon of truth, justice and the
American way! Good work to all, and let's keep our noses to the
grindstone!

Admiral Momsen

It will only rise from the abyss when Pansy Ganzy throws in the towel.

Wilbur Hubbard


Have you not noticed that when the dialogue is more sailing related, less
political, involves rationality, knowledge and gives less opportunity for
personal attacks his participation noticeably wanes? It's a sad, but true
observation. Hopefully he can find it within himself to deal with others
as equals, rather than from a drippy point of condensation. His mention of
prop wash was invaluable in the search for the truth about prop walk.


Rarely do I bother reading his posts lately. They lack substance more and
more as time passes. I think Dave finally managed to show him the error of
his ways. What a beating that was!

Wilbur Hubbard